The Good, The Bad & The Banned

[Carol]

Anchor, its easy to jump to conclusions when the info isn't being put out on the forum from the onset. I appreciate Bill's statement as that cleared up the who and why immediately.

It was a fluke that I just happened to be viewing some of Kinsuemei2's posts when he was banned. Now I'm flummoxed as I've no clue as to what he posted is real or not. He certainly came across as authentic in his earlier posts. And I was also under the impression that he is dying from cancer. Do we know if this is true?

[TRANCOSO]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Hi, Everyone:
Sorry to have to make the ban on Kinsuemei2. It was my call, and I take full responsibility.

Kinsuemei2 was also masquerading as "Heather Anderson" who was a non-existent person.

Cool action, Bill! Well done!
It amazes me time & again how mischievously weird some people are.

This is actually the perfect example of a 'banned-section' post.

Anyway, case closed. I'm gonna watch the Super Bowl.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Carol

Anchor, its easy to jump to conclusions when the info isn't being put out on the forum from the onset. I appreciate Bill's statement as that cleared up the who and why immediately.

It was a fluke that I just happened to be viewing some of Kinsuemei2's posts when he was banned. Now I'm flummoxed as I've no clue as to what he posted is real or not. He certainly came across as authentic in his earlier posts. And I was also under the impression that he is dying from cancer. Do we know if this is true?

This isnt going to help, but I dont know anything about kinsuemei2. The only time I ever paid any attention to him/her was when kinsuemei2 volunteered to be a moderator.

I'm sure it doesnt need pointing out that kinsuemei2 ==> "f**king sue me too"

Which is interesting in the light of what has been seen.

A..

[Carol]

We had had a PM exchange going on months back when he shared he didn't think he would live the year out. Now I don't know what to think. Egg did a number on the forum too. I truly wonder who these people are behind their avatars.

[Céline]

Originally Posted by Carol

We had had a PM exchange going on months back when he shared he didn't think he would live the year out. Now I don't know what to think. Egg did a number on the forum too. I truly wonder who these people are behind their avatars.

Just..people.

[Ross H]

Originally Posted by Carol

Anchor, its easy to jump to conclusions when the info isn't being put out on the forum from the onset. I appreciate Bill's statement as that cleared up the who and why immediately.

It was a fluke that I just happened to be viewing some of Kinsuemei2's posts when he was banned. Now I'm flummoxed as I've no clue as to what he posted is real or not. He certainly came across as authentic in his earlier posts. And I was also under the impression that he is dying from cancer. Do we know if this is true?

I cannot comment on the cancer issue as I have no information.

When I posted that he was banned I was unable to provide further info at that time. It is easy to jump to conclusions but please have faith in the mod team, as banning is last resort and only done when justified.

Sincerely

Ross H

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Céline

Ok...but if there are NO moderators on..would it be appropriate that mods stay invisible?

I am the only one that I know of that works in invisible mode. I am trying to cut back from spending 18 hour days here. It has really helped to cut back on the number of PM requests I get for such things as changing subject lines, now that there are more mods here who can help with such things. I will remain in invisible mode for the foreseeable future.

My title/color is changed to Project Avalon Organizer and I only do moderating as a back up.

I gather the posts and mod chats on a member (and also ask for other mods to help with that) that is being discussed and I put them in one thread to help keep us all on the same page about a troublesome member. No ban is taken lightly and if anything we over discuss it.

I watch for members that put up ideas and copy them over to mod central for discussion. I watch for signs of trouble on the forum innards and nag the tech guys until they believe me that there is a problem. The list goes on.

Today I brought up a topic for discussion with the mods/admin that was suggested in this thread and I will report the result of that in my next post.

I think there are advantages to having an "invisible watcher."

[Karen]

The idea of a public area announcing banned users and the reason why was suggested in this thread. I put that to a vote in the moderator meeting today. I got 4 votes all saying nay, we do not want this. My reason as presented earlier in this thread is copied below. Others presented other reasons. The suggestion was made - if you really must know why - PM a moderator, we are not going to make a public spectacle of it.

Originally Posted by Karen

As hilarious as that looks and sounds (with music playing in the background) that is pretty much the picture I get when thinking about making the list and reasons for being banned a public spectacle.

As I look over the banned log and I reflect on other posts about the increasing freqency of the group of people here at Avalon I must ...

Put On Moderator Hat

And say I nix this idea of a public list.

Please just rest assured that the moderators are making balanced and fair decisions. For every action we take, we ask for a vote from the other moderators that are present or pop online in the next few hours. I know the not knowing why is an irritant ...

Our society puts up Walls of Honor to publicly honor those deeds we deem honorable. Do we also put up Walls of Shame in public places? (I suppose we might have a few) When you get fired from a job, does the boss put up a sign outlining your transgressions? I recently pulled an animal card from the deck - Lynx - the keeper of the secrets. Can there actually be good reasons to keep secrets, such as to minimize public humiliation?

I understand this movement towards transparency ... and the call for an end of keeping secrets ... but like a alternative cancer doctor friend of mine says about all alternative treatments - all treatments cut both ways. You can do a therapy that will kill the primary tumor - but cause the metastasis to go wild.

So don't forget to look at the other side of that transparency knife.

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Carol

[snip] Karen came on my thread about Kinsuemei2 Banned and appeared to have no clue as to what happened. [snip] I also didn't agree with Franciejones being banned either. All she did was share an unsolicited email from Bill on the forum and that is no reason to ban either as Bill never got an agreement from her ahead of sending his email not to share it.

Yes, at that time I had just gotten online and had just read an email from Bill that he wanted Kinsuemei2 banned as he believed he was pretending to be Heather Anderson and a few more details. However that email was sent privately to all the mods and admins. (Others had not read it yet.) It is a very RARE case of utmost importance where I would share a PRIVATE communication (or the information in it) on a PUBLIC forum without permission from the other party. So what I posted was I would try to get more information - meaning seeing if I could find Bill to see exactly what it was he wanted to share on the public forum. I thought he would share all, as he did, but I did not yet have any permission to say anything on the forum.

Funny Francie Jones should be brought up in the next breath - Francie Jones who thinks it is OK to share private emails on public forums. Our guidelines expressly prohibit the sharing of private messages with others without permission and hopefully the new guidelines will expand that to all forms of private communication, such as email and voice conversations.

In the world of Netiquette - having not agreed to not share is NOT the point. People actually think it is OK to share private communications in public?

From
http://www.netmanners.com/email-etiq...ails/#more-229

Ask Before Forwarding E-mails

February 4, 2010 by Judith

Several times each week I get asked for guidance when it comes to forwarding emails written by others. Should you ask the sender if it is O.K. before forwarding to those they may or may not know an e-mail they sent privately to you? A resounding YES!

Common courtesy alone would dictate you don’t forward without the original sender’s knowledge. They may not appreciate the e-mail they wrote to you being sent to those they don’t know. How would you feel if the roles were reversed?

All e-mails are naturally copyright protected by the author upon their creation. So in order to forward a private e-mail to another person, or to post it anywhere online you need to get the writer’s permission to do so first.

Cc’ing doesn’t negate asking for permission. Private e-mails are sent and written to the party for which they were intended; not to be sent to others without obtaining permission first. Cc’ing simply advises you are letting them know after the fact that you are forwarding their e-mail without any courtesy or concern for their feelings.

I have an article on forwarding on my site that you might find helpful that covers the 5 Rules for Forwarding

HTH!

Here's a few snippets from some short related articles.

5 Rules for Forwarding
On an aside, also keep in mind that if you are forwarding a private email that was sent to you, you must get the sender’s permission to forward it on to others (or post it publicly). Emails are copyright protected by their authors. Not only that, common courtesy dictates that you should ask the author first if the email sent for your eyes only can be forwarded to strangers or others for which it was not originally intended.

* E-mail Forwarding Tips and Advice

* Forwarding Other’s E-mail

* E-mail Forwarding Reflects on You!

* Stop the E-mail Forwarding!

[Harry_CDN]

I'm getting the picture that Mods have lots of fires to put out on a daily basis. hmm like soccer refs. yellow card any back talk to the Ref
out comes the Red card
I wonder how the Mods keep there cool?

By the way 'm learning many new things here about running your own board.

Private e-mail = after you read it a message will appear saying this message will delete in 20 secs. Security: your eyes only

[morguana]

Originally Posted by Harry_CDN

I'm getting the picture that Mods have lots of fires to put out on a daily basis. hmm like soccer refs. yellow card any back talk to the Ref
out comes the Red card
I wonder how the Mods keep there cool?

By the way 'm learning many new things here about running your own board.

Private e-mail = after you read it a message will appear saying this message will delete in 20 secs. Security: your eyes only

we have to remember to breath and communicate with each other, all of us need sometimes to take a step away and let others have a think too......its busy busy and can be like a rollercoaster! i like it when its peacefull and we can spend time helping members rather than go battleing.
so be compassionate and careing folk
remember its love that makes the world go around
m x

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Harry_CDN

I wonder how the Mods keep there cool?

Well there is a moderator chat where we can say ****, **** and **** a lot. Sometimes it helps, other times it doesn't. (I jest).

My recently developed guideline (for myself, but others can follow it too if they want) is that if you see a post that annoys you, this tells you immediately that you are not ready to moderate that post.

You need to resolve the annoyance first, then once that's cleared up you can proceed to moderate with the appropriate calm detachment. This avoids the alternative, which is more often than not a sudden and explosive unleashing your inner Chuck Norris moderator round-house kick to the head.

A..

[Harry_CDN]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Well there is a moderator chat where we can say ****, **** and **** a lot. Sometimes it helps, other times it doesn't. (I jest).

My recently developed guideline (for myself, but others can follow it too if they want) is that if you see a post that annoys you, this tells you immediately that you are not ready to moderate that post.

You need to resolve the annoyance first, then once that's cleared up you can proceed to moderate with the appropriate calm detachment. This avoids the alternative, which is more often than not a sudden and explosive unleashing your inner Chuck Norris moderator round-house kick to the head.

A..

Very interesting. I've dealt with many types of technical e-mails and I'm always wondering if age has anything to do with patience?

By the way I was around when punch cards were used in many places

[TRANCOSO]

Why was 'Chamber' banned, if I may ask?

[Anchor]

You can ask, but as is almost always the case we wont answer.

The reasons we dont discuss this stuff have all been stated before. We also do not wish to focus on unpleasantness more than is necessary to do our moderating.

A..

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by Hiram

I'd like to express my two cents here:


But I don't believe I should just be able to make-up any story and just blather all over here in the name of "free expression of ideas". No one here would like it if I did that....and I can assure you I could make my PDF sound VERY convincing! I would expect someone to contact me to ask some follow-up questions. I hope that is what happens here.

It obviously only happens to a few................


I too do not believe anyone should post in here a made up story but if Kerry and Bill truly vetted all the whistleblowers, do you still think they would of put their stories out there ?

Its so sad that this has happen and I will put right here that it was because one mod thought there were too many "typos". For shame. Thats not a good enough reason

My daughter in laws grandmother could tell you stories that would make your hair stand up straight and so could my late husband who was also Native American.

I will not come forward and post on here because I might be asked for "proof" and I have none but what was told to me and its in my mind and heart. The grandmother speaks the truth and she will not come forward. Oh does that means she lies ? NO

I say Shame on anyone that thinks they are authorative enough to judge one mans because of typos or IP address.

Whether he is really sick or not should not be brought up for discussion period

Anchor, you surprised me with the F.....ing sue me 2 remark, its out of character for you.



I have been coming here since it opened and I do think if you do not comply with the mods in what your response is you are not always banned............you are ignorred.....pure and simple

Sidekick has a valid point in his remarks on how it goes down in this forum


Its funny I keep hearing how FrancieJones got banned for putting up a private email recieved from Bill........Why is Lightwarrior still able to post when he indeed put up a PM of kinsuemei2 ? All I seen was it was removed and he is still around (not sure of his name ) I'm not asking that he be banned but I'm saying Rules s/b for all if applied fairly

No one deserves to be treated as they didnt matter. We all matter and should be treated as we would want to be. So banning and ignoring based on assumptions or disagreeing is wrong.

[Karen]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Its so sad that this has happen and I will put right here that it was because one mod thought there were too many "typos". For shame. Thats not a good enough reason

The moderators had nothing to do with this. Bill Ryan made the call, and takes full responsibility for it, as stated in his posts on the issue and based on a whole lot more than "too many 'typos'". The situation is still evolving. Stay tuned. Be patient. This is not going to shake out in the next hour.

[Zenbuoy]

Originally Posted by Harry_CDN

and then let them go for it.

Well, that was the idea in this forum created by someone who was banned here.
He then started taking Prisoners after attacking them personally.

There is a always a history, unlearned, by members of a forum.



Point being: once someone is rude there is a highly probable chance they will be rude again for their service to self agenda.

It won't change.

[TRANCOSO]

Originally Posted by Zenbuoy

Well, that was the idea in this forum created by someone who was banned here.
He then started taking Prisoners after attacking them personally.

There is a always a history, unlearned, by members of a forum.


Point being: once someone is rude there is a highly probable chance they will be rude again for their service to self agenda.

It won't change.

Why are you using Size 4 & 5 for this 'statement', Zenbuoy? In my experience the louder you get, the less people tend to listen to what you've got to say.
Size matters, but not in this case.

[Zenbuoy]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

Why are you using Size 4 & 5 for this 'statement', Zenbuoy? In my experience the louder you get, the less people tend to listen to what you've got to say.
Size matters, but not in this case.

sorry, what?

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

Why are you using Size 4 & 5 for this 'statement', Zenbuoy? In my experience the louder you get, the less people tend to listen to what you've got to say.
Size matters, but not in this case.

He isn't any more

A..

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Zenbuoy

sorry, what?

Please do me and the people who have to read this a favor and stop using the big fonts. Thanks.

A..

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Anchor, you surprised me with the F.....ing sue me 2 remark, its out of character for you.

Sorry.

Part of my comment was factual, the other part perhaps I shouldn't have made.

A..

[TRANCOSO]

Originally Posted by Anchor

He isn't any more

A..

[TRANCOSO]

Originally Posted by Ravens and Doves

Does anybody want to help Camelot/Avelon/LW out with some cash? I used to live in this house... my ex wife is selling it for two and a half mil. I'll donate one third of what she cuts loose of to Kerry and Bill's cause (and some to you).

What's the catch, R&D?