WILL OUR OWN TROOPS and COPS TURN AGAINST US?

[THE eXchanger]

for example, if there are 9+1 at the centre

then, these guys have guys/or gals around them

and, then, these guys/or gals have guys/or gals around them

and, so on, out about 9 levels of depth

the outer rim, if it turned on the next layer

and, then, that layer turned on, the next layer

and, so on--it would NOT be that hard for them to destroy themselves

already people on the outside edges
(or, the bottom of the pole)
are going to start asking questions

sooner, or later,
a lot of them,
will NOT like the answers

once i was asking guides for info

and, i discovered that many things
follow an 80/20 type of rule

so, if 80% are good
then, only 20% are NOT good

that means, that out of 100 people

80 are good, and, 20 is NOT good

if in the 20% that are not good:
it follows another 80-20 rules

so 16 are NOT that bad, and, only 4 are bad

and, if you reduce it one more time

what are you left with ??? NOT much

CAN ONE evil person
stand on their own alone,
and, for how long

until all the threads of deception,
start to get unraveled

which begs a different question...
how many of you,
actually think this is a war ONLY in 3D ???

because, i believe, that is about the blindest
observation you can make !!!
in these times

anyway-- will it be like atlantis
some leave in shape ships,
while others, go into the sea ???

right NOW, we are seeing the greed cards
right out on the table
many of them, are affecting everyone

ironically, we think, everyone in the world
lives as we do -- when approx 80% of the world
makes less than $5.00/day,
and, are NOT recorded in systems, like we are

that last comment, kind of puts quite an interesting
slant, on what type of an experiment,
we are currently in ...
and, how it is, that,
we live in this world,
where 20% are really rich
and; 20% are really poor,
and, those ones, can look after themselves/
or, get looked after for free...

so, that leaves the group they never counted on

the middle classes

60% -- of this group
about 80% of them are trapped in debt
(paying monthly payments only--
and, unable to escape the mistake they have made,
of buying stuff, before they earned the right to have it)

and, 20% of them,
that are NOT trapped at all
and, pay their full balances monthly,
and, pay them NO interest

it's really quite amazing,
this world we live in,
where many think, everyone else,
lives as, they do,
when, clearly, 80% of the world,
do NOT live, like we do...at all !!!

perhaps, they are the rich ones ???

something to ponder/and, to chew on

(as, i think, i wonder what it might be like
to live in an obscure corner of russia/or china
mongolia, or tibet ) high up on a mountain (grin)

brightest blessings

susan~white lotus star
the eXchanger

[333mark333]

In the beginning yes. Later, no.

Originally Posted by warriorsoul

I don't think they will turn against us, but they would help us. The cops would help us..

Really?

SWAT team raids mayor, shoots family dog because someone mailed them pot

Cheye Calvo, mayor of DC suburb Berwyn Heights, was raided by a SWAT team after 30lbs of marijuana was delivered to his home. They broke down his door, shot his two black labradors, and interrogated him and his wife as their dogs bled to death.

Turns out Calvo says he had no idea about the package, which was still outside, unopened and perhaps waiting for its real recipient to pick it up. Police say they still had sufficient cause to break in (even though they did not have a "no-knock warrant").

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/07...aids-mayo.html

Killing of Mayor's 2 Dogs Justified, Pr. George's Finds
Officers in Raid Threatened, Sheriff Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090402746.html

The necropsy concluded one dog was shot four times and the other twice, including once in the dog's back legs.

Calvo said the necropsy has bolstered his contention that neither dog was threatening law enforcement officers during the raid and that one dog was shot from behind as he fled into a back room.

A sheriff's department SWAT team and county police narcotics officers burst into the mayor's home July 29 after police intercepted a 32-pound package of marijuana addressed to Trinity Tomsic, Calvo's wife.

Police cleared Calvo and Tomsic of wrongdoing, saying they were victims of a drug smuggling scheme in which drug-filled packages addressed to unsuspecting recipients were intercepted by a FedEx deliveryman.

Botched Sting: Killed With Gun She Was Supposed to Buy
Alone With No Training, a Young Woman Dies Working as Police Informant

No training. A botched drug sting. A dead 23-year-old college graduate.
Rachel Hoffman had to choose between prison or working as an informant.

But authorities in Tallahassee, Fla., have yet to take any action against the police responsible for an undercover operation that led to the death of Rachel Hoffman, a recent graduate of Florida State University.

Police Chief Dennis Jones, interviewed for tonight's 20/20 broadcast, says he does not accept that his department is in any way responsible for the death of the young woman.

"Do we feel responsible? We're responsible for the safety of this community," Jones said, labeling Hoffman a "criminal" because she was caught twice with a baggie of marijuana.

She was told she would get off on the pot charge if she helped in the sting

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5450550

Just google around a bit there are many similar stories.

As for the military...

Well the PTB have that covered. Most weapons these days are being designed without a pilot or operator


Boeing




British TANARIS




NEURON Revealed at Paris Air Show...



Anyone wondered about all those "Black Triangle" UFO's

NAVY

Zumwalt Class DDG 1000 destroyer

Only needs 23 people to operate
http://www.raytheon.com/broadcast/DDG_1000_overview.asx


Still feel safe?

Anyone remember THIS?



The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others were wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country, at this already socially contentious time, along political lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

[MMe M]

I read a comment that there are too many Americans’ for them to realistically subdue. Here is a picture to think about when you feel numbers are the only thing that matters.




caption of picture. How many does it take to subdue such a large number? Not too many, looks like.

In Auschwitz, all Jews arriving at the camp was were exposed to a "selection" in which those fit for work were seperated from those unfit for work. Those able for work were tranferred to the main camp, where they normally worked or starved to death. Those unfit for work were gassed immediately.

Regarding their advanced weapons, we as a collective have the power to be a force to be reckoned with, or be lambs led to slaughter. They are better equipped, we are motivated by pure survival mentality. If its foreign troops you are concerned about, we have a home field advantage. Our second amendment rights have already been walked all over, and are absolutely essential not only to defense but to survival in the form of hunting for food as well. We must not give up our guns. NOBODY will have the luxury of being a good little captive and live to tell the tale. We will have to fight to survive.

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

[Rocky_Shorz]

So Faal, who said foreign troops were being moved into our country to protect assets for China, is now saying foreign troops have been moved in for the new world order and are under the command of our leaders.

The interesting part is in her message, she says top US Military is standing against our leaders...

wow, what a spin...

[feardia]

Of course they will, because they will all be chipped, freemasons, blackwater employees or clones, while all the young men of military age will be sent off to fight in the NWO foreign wars. They will not take everyone, those who take the chip and work with their system will be spared.

"When they came for the Jews, I did nothing. When they came for the communists i did not nothing. When they came for me, there was no one left to do anything."

[freekatz]

We only have to look at their behaviour at the recent RNC conventions to answer that question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpxIIJ09X4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmQrW...eature=related


I'm not sure why Americans still think that they are a different race to the rest of the world. It doesn't matter what country you are in, when the order comes down whether it be police or military, none of them are going to have the courage to stand up and defy orders - show me a time in history where it has actually happened.

[joe2288]

Originally Posted by warriorsoul

I don't think they will turn against us, but they would help us. That's why the majority of them are in iraq. held there by intention? The cops would help us.

The forces that are here to be against us would the those loyal to THOSE people. I am guessing black water is one of those groups.

you got that right were here to help our poeple not hurt them
so if u honestly think the army would just start shooting people you need to stop take a deep breath a rethink everything u know about the army

[sebring1963]

They may if they use Blackwater

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=nqM4tKPDlR8

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by joe2288

you got that right were here to help our poeple not hurt them
so if u honestly think the army would just start shooting people you need to stop take a deep breath a rethink everything u know about the army

Tell that to the BRITISH people shot by the BRITISH army in N.I.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by joe2288

you got that right were here to help our poeple not hurt them
so if u honestly think the army would just start shooting people you need to stop take a deep breath a rethink everything u know about the army

Well Joe, we're glad you are on our side...

We are a people that have lived Free our whole lives, if every police officer in America was gathered together, it wouldn't be a force big enough to take on LA Gangs...

All these Martial Law conversations lead back to the same truths...

America may get knocked to its knees by a cheap blow, but I pity the fools that attacked us when we get back up... We are no longer the sleeping Giant.

There is no power in the world that could rise up against us when we all stand together...

[SteveTPA]

Interesting perspectives on this thread. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction: there will be a split. Actually, it's already happening, in particular in the military. Google or search YouTube for Adam Kokesh. Here's one of his speeches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7W6Xp6GG0M

How many more of him are in the police or the military? There will always be mindless sadistic goons that will never pass up an opportunity to hurt someone, but others are committed to the American Constitution and will fight on the side of the people. I feel that ultimately the good guys will win, after much turmoil, and we will emerge a greater nation. Adam says soldiers have a right and a duty to disobey illegal orders.

Let's hope many of them get his message.

[TranceAm]

[QUOTE=freekatz;65034 show me a time in history where it has actually happened.[/QUOTE]

I only know of a picture since you can bet $1000 on what the order for that first tank driver were.... And he refused.:

There is a difference, between following orders to regain law and order, and plain murder on command.

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

I only know of a picture since you can bet $1000 on what the order for that first tank driver were.... And he refused.:

Tianenmen square is a great example of personal power.
However, don't be deluded into thinking that all forms of power will merely crumble on their own. It's a great dream, but you have to make it a reality...just like that brave chinese lad.
As I pointed out, it's been done time and time again in the past, the armed forces are great brainwashers..believe me.

If you want the future so many of us envision on this thread then you have to post "truth vids" (and only selective real heavy hitters which cannot be denied, not speculative stuff) on other forums all over the internet. You have to spread the message everywhere.

Use this forum by all means to keep spirits up and in contact with others who are awakened but don't preach to the choir.

http://www.big-boards.com/

^ Go for it.

[Swanny]

On May 4, 1970 the Ohio National Guard opened fire into a busy college campus during a school day. A total of 67 shots were fired in 13 seconds. Four students: (L to R) Allison Krause, William Schroeder, Jeffrey Miller, and Sandra Scheuer were killed. Nine students were wounded.

http://www.may4.org/




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

It happened back then

[freekatz]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

I only know of a picture since you can bet $1000 on what the order for that first tank driver were.... And he refused.:

There is a difference, between following orders to regain law and order, and plain murder on command.

The one tank driver refused...I'd be curious to know what happened to him and the beautiful human being in front of the tank. Did the madness stop there and all his fellow soldiers unite in defiance? Unfortunately I very much doubt it.

Tuza:

Looking up gun shops - and looking for a couple of rocks.

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by freekatz

The one tank driver refused...I'd be curious to know what happened to him and the beautiful human being in front of the tank. Did the madness stop there and all his fellow soldiers unite in defiance? Unfortunately I very much doubt it.

Sadly here you are probably right. (But that was not your original challenge.. ;-)
And Swanny already has posted the counter example. (Although that was the National Guard. iirc)

I can only hope that the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence will be the documents the Americans will gather around and defend, since they ARE the mutual and voluntary shared things in all those different realities they live in.

The Police Officer may not be a Police officer anymore but a Law enforcer, but inside that Uniform IS an American, that sees his documents challenged and disgraced, Same with the soldiers. The disgrace and abuse doesn't stop when they have enforced the law on some people that are accused of breaking a/any law in order to book/neutralize them. America AIN'T Communist China, where they can kill the opposition and then claim that there ain't no opposition.

The Americans may be misled for a while, but the documents and the ideas written in them cant be misled. America may be bankrupted by traitors in order to be embraced by the new world order.. But that doesn't mean that Americans are going to allow that the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence become the documents enshrining a failed experiment.

Now, the average American may be asleep, or not open to such thoughts at this moment because they do follow the law and trust the people that tell them what the law is, but then again.. It is all a case of threshold.... Somewhere the line is passed, and every American will see the Bull for what it is. And talk about going VIRAL.

And then the Tomahawk is dug up.
And when that happens, there is only one possibility that is true..
You will after you won, bury it again.

Now the big point, is that they want to conjure that spirit with the next attack, and we (And this is "our" task... And 4000 people as forum members may not be enough to have enough whistleblower entry points!) have to prove that it IS a false flag, if that is the case.

If we don't.. There will be no radiant zones, there will only be spreading radioactive zones.

Nuff said.

[Swanny]

Don't forget that if a angry protest is met by a military or police force all it takes is one shot to be fired, people panic and all hell could break loose, doesn't matter if there are family men involved, if they are fired on they will return fire.
America is very multi cultural so all you need is a bit of racism added and you have all the fuel needed to start a war.
That's a very different story to a few black/white Americans facing some other black/white Americans.
There are some really nasty, selfish and angry people on the planet that don't care about oither human beings the same way we do.

[THE eXchanger]

9/14/2008

Originally Posted by eXchanger

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

that is a fact !!!

for "us", it will be "all hands off"

remember, this operates in circles,
within circles, within circles

eventually; when the outside edges
realise, what is blowing in "the winds"
they will very likely take two actions

1) turn inward, and, in doing so, will see this is wrong

(doing a job, and, getting paid for it, when you know it is wrong-is karmic)
and, you will go straight to hell, for doing it

it's time that many will start to sing / & blow their whistles

2) their aim, will be, to terminate the inner circle

they are like a bunch of ants,
climbing up a pin,
they have NO TRUST,
because they are NOT trustable,
nor, worthy of trusting,
and, they know that

WOW--that is 3 serious strikes, if this was a baseball game--they would be out !!!

and, there is NO ROOM,
at the top for any of them !!!

and, they are all climbing up different sides
of the same pin, at the same time

my prediction, under the light of this full moon
and, you can MARK my words on this:

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

and, the shift, has happened -- the s*** has already hit many fans

what is blowing in the wind -- is going to topple them

i am susan
white lotus star
the eXchanger

The eXchanger, was right !!!

The outer circles, will rebel:

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 88888888888

Madagascar: Troops defy orders to put down opposition protests
By Fred Weston
Thursday, 12 March 2009

Anti-government protestors in the capital of Madagascar, Antananarivo. Photo by IRIN. On Sunday the depth of the crisis and the level of social discontent in Madagascar directly affected a group of soldiers of the Army Corps of Personnel and Administrative and Technical Services who had been ordered to move against protestors on the streets. The soldiers refused to obey orders to fire on the people and repress anti-government demonstrators. Following this, they then declared they would not obey government orders either.

As one rebel soldier stated, "We no longer take orders from our hierarchy, we are following our hearts. We were trained to protect property and citizens, not to fire at people. We are with the people."

The soldiers at the Camp Capsat military camp on the outskirts of the capital of Madagascar, Antananarivo, prepared their lines of defence as they were expecting an attack on the part of the presidential guard. The 600-strong troops apparently control large stocks of arms and ammunition.

These dramatic events remind us of Bertolt Brecht's poem, "General, Your Tank Is a Powerful Vehicle", which goes like this:

It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful
It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.

These soldiers in Madagascar are being forced to think by events. As they say, they were trained to defend the people, not to shoot on them. And now they face the wrath of the ruling class and its officer caste.

Talbot Antonin Alexis, Director General of Madagascan National police, has called for unity between the police, the armed forces and the gendarmerie in a desperate attempt to re-establish some order. The Minister of Defence, Mamy Ranaivoniarivo, made it clear on Monday that it would be taking "military measures within the army." However, the Minister did not specify what measures. That explains why the soldiers prepared their lines of defence.

The government has accused the rebel soldiers of organising a mutiny, something the soldiers deny. They stated that they were simply refusing to be used against protesting civilians. Colonel Noel Rakotonandrasana, a spokesperson of the rebel soldiers, reiterating this point, explained that, "We cannot accept the repression of the civilian population."


The Director General of Madagascan National police, has called for unity between the police, the armed forces and the gendarmerie in a desperate attempt to re-establish some order. Photo: Christina Corbett/IRIN. All this comes at a critical moment for Madagascar. These events have taken place in the context of a bitter power struggle between the oppositionist Rajoelina and the President Marc Ravalomanana. At the beginning of this year Andry Rajoelina, the opposition leader, started calling protests against the President, Marc Ravalomanana. The President has not taken too kindly to the protests of the opposition and ordered the security forces to find Rajoelina, who in the meantime has taken the precautionary measure of going into hiding.

What has provoked the recent soldier rebellion has been the increasing use of the army to clamp down on the rising tide of protest sweeping across the country. Since the beginning of this year about 100 people have been killed on the streets by the army. In February a protest rally was marching on the presidential palace but it was met with brutal repression and 28 people were killed.

Madagascar has a population of 20 million people, most of whom live in abysmal poverty. More than half the population survives on less than $1 a day. Like most African countries, Madagascar has been forced by the World Bank and the IMF to apply so-called structural adjustment programmes, involving opening up its markets to the more powerful industrialised countries and privatisation. In the last recession in 2001-02 at the same time as a serious political crisis affected the country, GDP fell by 12%. Last year inflation stood at over 9%, seriously affecting the already impoverished masses.

The 2001 presidential elections were heavily disputed but in April 2002, the High Constitutional Court declared Ravalomanana the winner, who then went on to win a second presidential election in 2006. Since then, however, the world economic crisis has added to the already difficult living conditions of the masses. Ravalomanana's so-called "free market reforms" are now being exposed for what they really are, an attack on ordinary working people on the island.


Opposition leader, Andre Rajoelina, during an anti-government protest in Antananarivo. Photo by IRIN. Rajoelina, "a charismatic young businessman", as he is described in the media, and quite a wealthy man, also owns his own television and radio stations. He was the mayor of the capital until recently, and used this position to attack the government. In doing this he has tapped into a mood of anger brewing among the poor masses. In this context the army ranks have also been affected. Apart from refusing to fire on the people, the soldiers have been complaining about pay and the fact that their superiors have been embezzling funds.

The unfortunate thing about all this is the lack of a genuine mass socialist alternative that could unite the workers, the poor and the rank and file soldiers against the ruling elite. In 1972 the Party for Proletarian Power (MFM) was set up as a left-wing opposition. Unfortunately, as has happened to many former "left" forces in the past, the party abandoned its left-wing credentials to espouse liberalism and changed its name to the Movement for the Progress of Madagascar, in the meantime losing all its parliamentary representatives.

In the political vacuum that exists in the country we have unfortunately a struggle between two businessmen. But the movement of the masses and the revolt within the ranks of the army shows quite clearly that the potential is there for something much bigger.

After the mutiny of the Border Guards in Bangladesh, this revolt of soldiers in Madagascar highlights the point that Marxists have always made: in acute social, economic and political crises, when the masses start to move, the soldiers, the "workers in uniform", sons of workers and peasants, can turn against their officers, refuse to be used against the masses, and can therefore be won over to revolution. The famous "armed bodies of men" cannot always be relied on by the ruling classes. What we have seen in Bangladesh and Madagascar are indications of how deep the crisis is becoming. It bodes well for the workers of the world, but it requires a conscious, revolutionary leadership for it to be transformed into a force for revolutionary change.

Postscript: Since this article was written a section of the army has taken over army Headquarters and forced the defence minister, Mamy Ranaivoniarivo to resign!




WAR IS A RACKET, Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC
War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.