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Old 11-16-2008, 12:16 AM   #101
norman
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Default Re: Cracking the Code

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Originally Posted by GregorArturo View Post

................. C is the fundamental tone (the letter technically doesn't matter, just the frequency and note of the position). As it is the fundamental tone it is based off the first prime which is 2. Thus all notes of C are octaves of 2, which is always based on the doubling/halving of a note (also multiples of 2), thus C is also 256 an 512 hertz. You can have different tunings, in which that frequency works as C (music more importantly is based off mathematical patterns versus the actual frequency), however, these frequencies are the most natural.

Gregor, I like what your doing and I love the feel of this thread. I've been reading through and keep getting frustrated by the discussions about the 12 tone scale.

I did a bit of work on the subject a few years ago. My house has been emptied and my stuff is in storage. I have quite a lot of figures that I can't actually remember at the moment.

Anyway, I can't tell from looking at your spreadsheet if you are using "equal temperament" 'tuning' or if you are using "modal"(resonant) 'tuning'. There's an important difference, especially in regards to what you seem to be trying to achieve here.

Equal temperament tuning was 'invented' by Bach at about the time the keyboard was invented, to enable equality of the different 'musical keys'. It made any piece of music sound equally in tune no matter what key it was played in. It also destroyed the beautiful resonances that modal music had.

When an instrument is tuned modally, it sounds very resonant and 'sweet' in one key only. If you try to play in a different key it sounds c**p, you have to re-tune the instrument for the new key before it will sound 'sweet' again.

I'd guess that for the kind of applications you have in mind, you should be using the modal principle. I wish I had the figures here but I thought I should mention it. I'm not absolutely sure that you're not using the modal frequencies, I just can't remember the numbers right now.

The main thing is, you can only be resonantly accurate in one base frequency ('key') at a time. It doesn't matter what that frequency is, as long as you 'drift' the other frequencies of the chord or scale into resonant alignment with it. That's how it was before Bach, and still is with many modal purists today.

Hope that wasn't too many words for too little to say lol.


Also, while I'm here, number bases. I've never been able to understand why 'numerologists' see so much in base 10 numbers. If you change the base you change the numbers. (eXchanger, if you read this, I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for answers)

( on 12/13 note octaves, the base is 13 ; you get to 12 and go back to zero)
(as in base 10 ; you get to 9 and go back to zero)

I wonder if any of your amazing number theories could 're-invent' the actual number base that we use for these things based on the idea of having an octave at the base, as with the base 13 musical octave. If we were all taught western music instead of maths we'd probably all be counting in base 13. Just a thought.

Ok, that's me done for now. Great thread, let's see this happen.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:34 AM   #102
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hai Gregor, I find it all very interesting but it goes far beyond my knowledge.
All I could see was when you would bring this knowledge together and build it in an 'apparatus' you would end up with a nice guitar....
It's all there on the fretboard.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:50 AM   #103
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In terms of material, I also read recently that aluminum specifically shields torsion fields, which relates to the notion of how aluminum and copper are the only metals [supposedly] in the presence of each other [and this doesn't seem be a definite but they needed to be separated by a dielectric, like PVC or rubber] that generate torsion fields.
would this be the reason they are spraying aluminium high up inn teh atmosphere in the upper atmosphere chem trails????
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:54 AM   #104
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Gregor,

This thread sets thoughts in motion for me. Here are a few:

1. About: I have a feeling that we do not fully understand thermodynamics and temperature.

Absolutely! Well, OK, I could be boldly AND incorrectly agreeing. But I've thought over the years from the days of being an engineering dropout that there's something really fishy/wrong about a few things. Like that, for instance. I think gravity itself is misunderstood - it's about heat and cold and space. The dance is the mix of it, movement is its interaction, all playfulness (sanskrit:lila) and relational. 'Force' is like a tension (relationship) between objects with varying temperatures. Or not.

From a Hegelian view point, it's the dialectic that never synthesizes. Well, maybe ultimately, but it's more like a persistent/perpetual process towards synthesis. It's like ...yearning!

2. About: Building the plant-growing pyramid. Whew, sounds like a lot of work. Maybe it would be useful from an in-house grow-op point of view (and I mean veggies), but what I want to know is how's your didgeridoo coming along?

3. About: True notes.

Although I liked Adam K.'s plan for recording songs and sharing the knowledge far and wide, I'm thinking now. First, being a bit anarchic, it sounds like a lot of social coordination to me. There's still something in there though: a song. Next, the cautionary post by Flying Pyramid.

My plan now is to experiment at home, with a very simple song (Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) and see how it feels. Its few notes and innocent lyrics would be a good containment field. Do both versions, an A/B test, off/true. I'm all for phenomenological science (my motto: Goethe not Newton). Then, do a more complex tune, like Mad World by Gary Jules. See how it goes.

If it's all safe and sound enough to proceed, I see a new song with a popular songwriter who's seen many seasons, using these principles, not Beethoven or Mozart (maybe later). Lots of people playing in studio, using frequencies for healing and emotional stabilization, maybe cure cancer too... (I read about that frequency, a treatment developed in early 1900s ... somewhere...).

Just one song, unless everyone's pants go on creative fire, then an album. More songwriters then. Delay mass production of tuning forks. Studio time is a possibility in my world. A musical 'forum project' could be a broadcast. Any thoughts?


**About: mushrooms ('fungus' unrelated to this post)(re slippery mushroom patch bad dream) I read this today in a Wired blog - FYI. "There's a fungus distributed in the environment which allows for very precise targeting of individual's biological and psychological functioning. Watch the skies to know how it got there. Take note of your environment - micro fiber systems everywhere, especially in undusted places. Use a black light to see them if you don't "believe" me? Speaking of black, well, it's all black."
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:12 PM   #105
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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i just watched the rodin lecture off google.. this is getting more and more exciting
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:58 PM   #106
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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i was jsut watching rodins lecture and thought about his Z axis moving in phases of 3rds... and it reminded me of this crop circle. as he said its like a co ordinate reference and the the phases are like tiled space.


http://www.notempire.com/images/uploads/3d%20crop-2.jpg

my brain hurts

Last edited by pineal-pilot-in merkabah; 11-16-2008 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:13 AM   #107
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Hey guys, I've been pretty busy as of lately but anyways. Nah, I haven't worked on the didgs, just haven't had time. Did play some really nice ones today though at the meditation retreat I was at. I hope to do some experimenting next weekend. To really pull it off in the easiest fashion, my best would be using quartz crystal inside a faraday cage (a basic one). I want to try wiring my own rodin coil. If I make a larger size one I feel it would be much easier to wire (and more powerful of course). Then use two didgs at 90 degrees to each other aiming at the crystal using the notes C and F. However, I want to do some graphing work (possible simulation) on the wave propagation first. Thanks no caste for sharing. Good luck with your work!

Thanks Norman. I will look into that. As I said with no caste, I need to do some more graphing to see how the waves propagate in terms of each other to verify any of this. Also, base ten is mathematically sound. It's completely natural.

And any metal for the most part that is vaporized in a particle form as far as I know is not good for you. I know aluminum in the body is very toxic alone, over other metals, as one would know with anti-persperants.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:05 AM   #108
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Kudos to your homework Greg. Have you seen this video by Dr David Deak demonstrating his acoustic levitation chamber?

http://www.truveo.com/Acoustic-Levit.../id/3273521978

Here is his website
http://www.deakworld.com/

Happy researching
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:57 PM   #109
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Great thread!
I have been working with a free software called AnalogBox @ andyware.com, I'm designing audio signal sources for Cymatics applications with it.This software is an amazingly powerful sound synthesizer.It consists of drag n' drop modules that you connect to form sound "machines". It occurred to me that since it will accept MIDI signals from a standard music keyboard, the equation builder module (up to 8 variables) could take the keystrokes and convert the note to any imaginable scale, Solfeggio, or whatever.Check out the examples that are called "Jambots" to see what this program can do.It is very compact and efficient, for PC.
Using this has been a revelation for me, I know others into sound healing will create wondrous new sounds with it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:59 AM   #110
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Hi Arturo. I was reading that table of yours with frequencies and I have some questions. The ratios of solfegios frequencies are not correct, they are close to the original but not quite there. How did you get those ratios of musical scale?
I mean C# being 15/16 ratio to the original C. I know that 16/15*256=273.067 but where did you get that 16/15? The ratios of C# and A are not of Just Intonation but other ratios are. In Just Intonation C# is 135/128*256=270 and A is 27/16*256=432! And about that 0.9999999999999999999 thing, it's really simple to explain and prove that it is equal to one. See it this way, 1/3=0.333333333333333... 2/3=0.666666666...
1/3+2/3=3/3=1 and also 0.333333...+0.666666...=0.999999... which is equal to one. You have intrigued me with your work so I am starting to research myself.
Thanks for all your work.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by berathebrain View Post
Hi Arturo. I was reading that table of yours with frequencies and I have some questions. The ratios of solfegios frequencies are not correct, they are close to the original but not quite there. How did you get those ratios of musical scale?
I mean C# being 15/16 ratio to the original C. I know that 16/15*256=273.067 but where did you get that 16/15? The ratios of C# and A are not of Just Intonation but other ratios are. In Just Intonation C# is 135/128*256=270 and A is 27/16*256=432! And about that 0.9999999999999999999 thing, it's really simple to explain and prove that it is equal to one. See it this way, 1/3=0.333333333333333... 2/3=0.666666666...
1/3+2/3=3/3=1 and also 0.333333...+0.666666...=0.999999... which is equal to one. You have intrigued me with your work so I am starting to research myself.
Thanks for all your work.
Thank you for sharing. This has been the number one problem with conducting this research in terms of what are the correct ratios and scales. There is a lots of varying info out there, and that's why there seems to be no exact perfect scale (even though there is one). I know it is based off primes and ratios, but haven't fully got down what one is what. I have no acoustic theory under my belt and have been teaching myself all of it recently for this. If you have any information to share more on this, it would be greatly appreciated, especially links and documentation. I myself felt confident with the notion that C=256 and A=432 earlier but finding the specific ratios was well a hard one. I was planning to go to a music professor on campus and discuss musical notation with him to figure it out once and for all. Thanks again!
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:13 PM   #112
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Keep in the mind that Hz is "Cycles per Second", and the problem is, what is second? Second is a Time Measure based on ... Nothing. At least not based on a Universal understanding of geometry resonance and ratios. It is a Human (maybe mason?) made size. Same whit Meter. I research this me self and i font for now no universal geometric based way to find a measure system for Time and Space. So i am interested on everything you find out about this.

This means, we can not use numbers directly as frequencies so long the fundament second and meter is based on arbitrariness.

I think the Solfeggio numbers (... 396, 417, 528 ...) used as a Sound frequency is a misunderstanding (or maybe a manipulation). This numbers are a completely other topic and has nothing to do whit frequencies. The Numbers create a linear system, and not a logarithmic. Just mix all frequencies together, it sounds terrible! I have don this to proof me bad filings against the Solfeggio frequency's as sound. Logarithmic frequencies sounds harmonic, even independent of the Logarithmic base (naturally it is 2, but i test it whit other bases too, for example whit 1.618 and others).

A better understanding of numbers and the frequencies we get be using the visual frequency of Light and the colors, to get a clear sound. I speculate our body resonates by nature whit the universal geometry, and so the colors red yellow green blue violet can be used to find a god base for the right frequencies in sound.

Has somebody good information's for frequencies of all kind in nature, including the colors?
More different frequencies and more exact the better. Thanks.
(i found only a few and imprecise infarctions.)

(if you want a respond on a question, then hurry up, if the forum is only accessible by subscription, i am out.)
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:50 PM   #113
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Wow what a thread I've been missing out on.

My background is physics BSc and acoustics/vibrations MSc although I seem to be getting brain dead in a large corporation I'm not sure for how much longer it is automotive need I say more with the things as they are in the press.

I need to do some research and lots of watching to get myself up to speed but I've read through the whole thread and now intend to watch the links

Audio and vibration have been a fascination for me and I look forward to how this thread is progressing. I hope to be up to speed enough to hopefully contribute something meaningful... even if it is only encoragement!

off to link watch

ps I remembered there were two things I wanted to add. The Fats Omega 3, 6 and 9 are they linked with these numbers?
pps with regards pyramids and energy there is a book written by Christopher Dunn - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...sl_r6u60s2ef_b Well worth a read as it talks about the construction and an extremely plausable reason for the pyramids. He goes into the constructions and theory and it all stacks up with physics.
http://www.gizapower.com/

summary: giant mechanical tectonic plate resonators, which amplify microwave energy in a MASER (parallel sided inner box made from microwave transmittable stone (sarcophicus) with concave lenses each outer end to focus it into waveguideshafts, with a Hydrogen filled resonator chamber (resonant frequency of H2) (kings) and gets Hydrogen from the acid/alkaline filled queens chamber below. Book and website are well worth a view / read!!!! I'm sure I've missed a few items there but I read it a year + ago. Basically says the stones were made using stone CNC machines due to tooling marks etc. As an engineer I have to agreed with his reasoning. He also asked stone masons and they said it would be extremely difficult to replicate today.

Last edited by Connecting with Sauce; 11-18-2008 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:56 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterh View Post
Keep in the mind that Hz is "Cycles per Second", and the problem is, what is second? Second is a Time Measure based on ... Nothing. At least not based on a Universal understanding of geometry resonance and ratios. It is a Human (maybe mason?) made size. Same whit Meter. I research this me self and i font for now no universal geometric based way to find a measure system for Time and Space. So i am interested on everything you find out about this.

This means, we can not use numbers directly as frequencies so long the fundament second and meter is based on arbitrariness.

I think the Solfeggio numbers (... 396, 417, 528 ...) used as a Sound frequency is a misunderstanding (or maybe a manipulation). This numbers are a completely other topic and has nothing to do whit frequencies. The Numbers create a linear system, and not a logarithmic. Just mix all frequencies together, it sounds terrible! I have don this to proof me bad filings against the Solfeggio frequency's as sound. Logarithmic frequencies sounds harmonic, even independent of the Logarithmic base (naturally it is 2, but i test it whit other bases too, for example whit 1.618 and others).

A better understanding of numbers and the frequencies we get be using the visual frequency of Light and the colors, to get a clear sound. I speculate our body resonates by nature whit the universal geometry, and so the colors red yellow green blue violet can be used to find a god base for the right frequencies in sound.

Has somebody good information's for frequencies of all kind in nature, including the colors?
More different frequencies and more exact the better. Thanks.
(i found only a few and imprecise infarctions.)

(if you want a respond on a question, then hurry up, if the forum is only accessible by subscription, i am out.)

I do not know if this is relevant in what Gregor has gathered but you mentioned the timing of it all, and a Mayan paper on "Time" someone put together last year described how they viewed time. Simply, the Mayans broke down "Time" based on cycles of 13 in which events occured within, ie, 13 hours, 13 minutes, 13 seconds, 13 'whatever.' They saw Time based on 13.
I know there are endless books and professionals, and experts on the subject but this person took exisitng works pushed them all together and drew a different conclusion. Maybe he is right or is on to something or just another opinion but I thought it was interesting.

Maybe 13 plugs in somewhere? I do not know but I do have the paper if someone is interested.

Besides isn't there really 13 months a year, not 12 (13 full moons) and aren't there really 13 Zodiac signs not 12 (even 'Wikipedia' shows 13 zodiac signs- 88 constellations) and weren't there really 13 disciples total! Just a thought and a different perspective.

Last edited by Christo888; 11-18-2008 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:41 PM   #115
GregorArturo
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Originally Posted by peterh View Post
Keep in the mind that Hz is "Cycles per Second", and the problem is, what is second? Second is a Time Measure based on ... Nothing. At least not based on a Universal understanding of geometry resonance and ratios. It is a Human (maybe mason?) made size. Same whit Meter. I research this me self and i font for now no universal geometric based way to find a measure system for Time and Space. So i am interested on everything you find out about this.

This means, we can not use numbers directly as frequencies so long the fundament second and meter is based on arbitrariness.

I think the Solfeggio numbers (... 396, 417, 528 ...) used as a Sound frequency is a misunderstanding (or maybe a manipulation). This numbers are a completely other topic and has nothing to do whit frequencies. The Numbers create a linear system, and not a logarithmic. Just mix all frequencies together, it sounds terrible! I have don this to proof me bad filings against the Solfeggio frequency's as sound. Logarithmic frequencies sounds harmonic, even independent of the Logarithmic base (naturally it is 2, but i test it whit other bases too, for example whit 1.618 and others).

A better understanding of numbers and the frequencies we get be using the visual frequency of Light and the colors, to get a clear sound. I speculate our body resonates by nature whit the universal geometry, and so the colors red yellow green blue violet can be used to find a god base for the right frequencies in sound.

Has somebody good information's for frequencies of all kind in nature, including the colors?
More different frequencies and more exact the better. Thanks.
(i found only a few and imprecise infarctions.)

(if you want a respond on a question, then hurry up, if the forum is only accessible by subscription, i am out.)
Excellent point Peter. But let me tell you about a conversation I had with someone in my campus's cafeteria not even ten minutes ago (I love synchronicity lol!). We were talking about remote viewing and from there it hopped into time measurement. I then go to explain that the second is actually is a true measurement, that it is not arbitrary. Our time system stems from the Sumerians over 5,000 years ago, with 60 seconds, 60 minutes, and 24 hours, while our calendar system had indeed changed multiple times (to the point of being entirely flawed).

An experiment was done using sound waves on a water droplet, essentially the acoustic levitation that has already been talking about here in this forum, but the levitation was not the purpose of the experiment. When the water droplet was completely held at a stationary point, it would begin to light as it began to pulse. I do not remember the exact measurement, but the pulses were at a perfect frequency (you could say octave here probably instead) of the second, or I believe one-hundredth of a millisecond).

Also, the sun expands and contracts in size/volume in a perfect rhythm. Even more interesting is that its cycle of expansion and contraction are absolutely perfect, to the millisecond, five minutes.

Oh wait, and it gets better. The only other star we can measure this duration, which I know is the closest star system and I think that is Alpha Centauri B, its duration is perfect, to the millisecond, seven minutes.

Think about it
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:01 PM   #116
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I agree with peterh that in order to find the true base frequency we must observe light. But the question is what is true green? I mean, there are many shades of green and people see green in different ways. So what is the frequency of the one and only green? On David Wilcock's site I read that the colors of light are in Diatonic Scale. http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.ph...d=91&Itemid=36

The logarithmic or equal temperament scale was produced because of key transposing and yet someone still prefers to hear a song written entirely in Diatonic Scale. Maybe if we use 13 note based system and equal temperament we could find some more pleasant music. In that system we would see one semitone as 2^(1/13)=1.054766. So the note C will be C=432*2^(-9/13)=267.3488776.
Here are some links that I have gathered in my research today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/DanielleDaly.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
http://cnx.org/content/m11639/latest/
http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/music.htm
http://www.michael.beer.name/research/mathandmusic.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths
http://www.tonalcentre.org/
http://www.terryblackburn.us/music/t...ent/index.html
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:06 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by GregorArturo View Post
Excellent point Peter. But let me tell you about a conversation I had with someone in my campus's cafeteria not even ten minutes ago (I love synchronicity lol!). We were talking about remote viewing and from there it hopped into time measurement. I then go to explain that the second is actually is a true measurement, that it is not arbitrary. Our time system stems from the Sumerians over 5,000 years ago, with 60 seconds, 60 minutes, and 24 hours, while our calendar system had indeed changed multiple times (to the point of being entirely flawed).

An experiment was done using sound waves on a water droplet, essentially the acoustic levitation that has already been talking about here in this forum, but the levitation was not the purpose of the experiment. When the water droplet was completely held at a stationary point, it would begin to light as it began to pulse. I do not remember the exact measurement, but the pulses were at a perfect frequency (you could say octave here probably instead) of the second, or I believe one-hundredth of a millisecond).

Also, the sun expands and contracts in size/volume in a perfect rhythm. Even more interesting is that its cycle of expansion and contraction are absolutely perfect, to the millisecond, five minutes.

Oh wait, and it gets better. The only other star we can measure this duration, which I know is the closest star system and I think that is Alpha Centauri B, its duration is perfect, to the millisecond, seven minutes.

Think about it
This is the point, all of this is depend on other systems and so relative. We use to day atom vibrations, and the stars to break down a time system for as. So it is not really universal, even wen it shows resonance patterns whit the universe geometry i search for.

I expect that occultists had the hands in the measuring system and so there hidden knowledge is in it, so "second" is not totally arbitrariness, but still relative based on systems (stars atoms) and not absolute baset on the universe it self. You can see there the resonance whit the universe geometry i serch to understand better.

...and (berathebrain) "what is true green?" exactly this is one of the problems. And i am not so sure if we and our body resonates more whit the planet and the solar system, then whit the universe is self. And a little shift away from the perfection is a quality of individuality. So we need more then 1 basement and tray to fine a common pattern in many data. It is a question to if we want create for example music for the human resonance of color, or the universal resonance.

What i try to find is to create a geometric way whit the result that light speed becomes a universal factor of 1 (or a geometric constant). (time and space limit in 3D). form light speed 1, everything can by geometrically breached down in to smaller sizes of space and time, and i expect this will fit in in a universal geometric picture, from the galaxies to the Atoms, and the universe is self.
for now i don't have enough data to solve this problem.

Last edited by peterh; 11-18-2008 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #118
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This is the point, all of this is depend on other systems and so relative. We use to day atom vibrations, and the stars to break down a time system for as. So it is not really universal, even wen it shows resonance patterns whit the universe geometry i search for.

I expect that occultists had the hands in the measuring system and so there hidden knowledge is in it, so "second" is not totally arbitrariness, but still relative based on systems (stars atoms) and not absolute baset on the universe it self. You can see there the resonance whit the universe geometry i serch to understand better.

...and (berathebrain) "what is true green?" exactly this is one of the problems. And i am not so sure if we and our body resonates more whit the planet and the solar system, then whit the universe is self. And a little shift away from the perfection is a quality of individuality. So we need more then 1 basement and tray to fine a common pattern in many data. It is a question to if we want create for example music for the human resonance of color, or the universal resonance.

What i try to find is to create a geometric way whit the result that light speed becomes a universal factor of 1 (or a geometric constant). (time and space limit in 3D). form light speed 1, everything can by geometrically breached down in to smaller sizes of space and time, and i expect this will fit in in a universal geometric picture, from the galaxies to the Atoms, and the universe is self.
for now i don't have enough data to solve this problem.
That is completely plausible. However, one needs to realize the importance is NOT value, but the ratio between things/objects/instances. The geometric foot is not an arbitrary value in terms of how it relates to other things. However, it is not the value, but the value's relationship to another value.

If you take six out of the number system, it alone has no true purpose, and also the entire [number] system fails. It does not work. 3 plus 3 no longer equals 6. You can only begin to imagine the chaos! This can also me applied metaphysically, in that without you, your being and existence, life ceases to exist!

Anyways, it is the ratios that matter. Harmonics are based on the relationships of prime numbers, not values. I can tell you without a doubt that C is most certainly 256 hz. I am absolutely positive without a doubt on that, in that C is a multiple of 2 (128 hz & 512 hz). Also note, that quartz crystal resonates at a perfect octave of C, or 32768 hz (2^15).

G is also another easily one to verify in that it is a ratio of 3/2, a ratio is primes, and is considered part of the second harmonic beyond the octave of C, also known as the perfect fifth. As far as I know, I am using Just intonation. Equal temperament is used to provide a larger range of frequencies, specifically for an instrument (electronic instrument/electronica this can easily be worked around), that is more linear based versus prime ratio based, however, not as natural.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:01 PM   #119
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If you were to take a paper plate and divide it into 12 equal sections like a pie, of course you would have a continuous circle of 12 sections as if you were to spin it. And starting at a point going around the circle you would end up at the beginning again. Kind of like life I suppose year after year. But if you were to find an opening in that cycle or circle could you step up into another realm perhaps and have new experiences in that new circle of beginning to end and so on. So if waves and frequency’s had new places to go would that ‘allow’ the waves and frequency’s to have a new effect in a new realm, synonymous as the property of Pi (you cannot contain it). Maybe or maybe not be the same wave or frequency but it perhaps found a new arena to experience in and have new effects. Like when we go on vacation we are the same person it’s just that we are visiting a new place and we are adventuresome to discover and explore.

So if you were to take this paper plate that is divided into 12 sections and cut along one of the 12 lines starting from the outside edge and cutting towards the middle and stopping at the center of the pie, then lift one edge up and push the other edge down there is now a new opening into a different realm of experience contained within the circumference of the circle. A 13th space- opening or gateway that is in a vertical position compared to the other 12 sections that are on a horizontal plateau and the path leads up (or down) into that new territory, like a spiral staircase. Mathematics is exact and will always provide an answer but how does one know what to do with the answer they have?

Of course we have all heard of 12 around 1, but what if it is 12 into 1, isn’t that also 13?
Would waves and frequency’s be more effective in a spiral or circular pattern that was modulated in order to hold the pattern, like a tornado or hurricane? Angles are important and have electro-magnetic factoring but isn’t it also true this is about “Circles not Angles” (Thoth) the spiral of life.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:27 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregorArturo View Post
That is completely plausible. However, one needs to realize the importance is NOT value, but the ratio between things/objects/instances. The geometric foot is not an arbitrary value in terms of how it relates to other things. However, it is not the value, but the value's relationship to another value.

If you take six out of the number system, it alone has no true purpose, and also the entire [number] system fails. It does not work. 3 plus 3 no longer equals 6. You can only begin to imagine the chaos! This can also me applied metaphysically, in that without you, your being and existence, life ceases to exist!

Anyways, it is the ratios that matter. Harmonics are based on the relationships of prime numbers, not values. I can tell you without a doubt that C is most certainly 256 hz. I am absolutely positive without a doubt on that, in that C is a multiple of 2 (128 hz & 512 hz). Also note, that quartz crystal resonates at a perfect octave of C, or 32768 hz (2^15).

G is also another easily one to verify in that it is a ratio of 3/2, a ratio is primes, and is considered part of the second harmonic beyond the octave of C, also known as the perfect fifth. As far as I know, I am using Just intonation. Equal temperament is used to provide a larger range of frequencies, specifically for an instrument (electronic instrument/electronica this can easily be worked around), that is more linear based versus prime ratio based, however, not as natural.
I believe it is close to 256. The problem is perfectnes, maybe it is 256.001 or 257...

And still, it is based on relative system, not on geometry.

this form the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_oscillator
"For example, a 6 pF 32 kHz crystal has a parallel resonance frequency of 32,768 Hz when a 6.0 pF capacitor is placed across the crystal. Without this capacitance, the resonance frequency is higher than 32,768 Hz."

This crystals are specially made to resonate in this frequency, so it is not a god frame of reference

Last edited by peterh; 11-18-2008 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:36 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christo888 View Post
If you were to take a paper plate and divide it into 12 equal sections like a pie, of course you would have a continuous circle of 12 sections as if you were to spin it. And starting at a point going around the circle you would end up at the beginning again. Kind of like life I suppose year after year. But if you were to find an opening in that cycle or circle could you step up into another realm perhaps and have new experiences in that new circle of beginning to end and so on. So if waves and frequency’s had new places to go would that ‘allow’ the waves and frequency’s to have a new effect in a new realm, synonymous as the property of Pi (you cannot contain it). Maybe or maybe not be the same wave or frequency but it perhaps found a new arena to experience in and have new effects. Like when we go on vacation we are the same person it’s just that we are visiting a new place and we are adventuresome to discover and explore.

So if you were to take this paper plate that is divided into 12 sections and cut along one of the 12 lines starting from the outside edge and cutting towards the middle and stopping at the center of the pie, then lift one edge up and push the other edge down there is now a new opening into a different realm of experience contained within the circumference of the circle. A 13th space- opening or gateway that is in a vertical position compared to the other 12 sections that are on a horizontal plateau and the path leads up (or down) into that new territory, like a spiral staircase. Mathematics is exact and will always provide an answer but how does one know what to do with the answer they have?

Of course we have all heard of 12 around 1, but what if it is 12 into 1, isn’t that also 13?
Would waves and frequency’s be more effective in a spiral or circular pattern that was modulated in order to hold the pattern, like a tornado or hurricane? Angles are important and have electro-magnetic factoring but isn’t it also true this is about “Circles not Angles” (Thoth) the spiral of life.
Yes, this is hopping into more abstract mathematics, quantum theory level type thinking. But yes, I understand your notion the 'new realm' and specifically applying it to 12 around 1. However, who says you an make only one cut, if a cut at all? Because you can have an infinite number of cuts, with an infinite number of 'new realms'.

Also, one needs to understand 12 around 1, and 6 around 1. 7 is the most geometrically stable number in the second dimension involving the points of 6 equilateral triangles together forming a hexagon which then creates 7 vertices in the newly created shape. 13 is the most geometrically stable shape in the third dimension involving the platonic solid of the icosahedron which involves twenty equilateral triangles together connected together [that fit perfectly inside a sphere] where each of the 12 vertices touch the surface of the sphere and each one connects to a central point of the shape (both of them technically) making thirteen vertices or points in total. The traditional view of twelve around one focuses on the notion of 12 points in a circle revolving around one (as it is also a dominant theme in our lives, ie the clock and the zodiac). This doesn't mean that the latter is an interpretation of the former (to simplify into say a two dimensional construct) as the concept is relevant in mathematics and physics. Marko Rodin's toroid is based on a progression of 3,6,9 emitting from a center point in equally distanced directions (spaced 30 degrees).

Six around one
http://education.yahoo.com/homework_...590-7-pr-q.gif

Icosahedron


Traditional view of twelve around one


I have a feeling Christo you may already understand this, but it will help other people get on topic with the discussion.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:48 PM   #122
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GregorArturo,
Great thread, only just noticed it.
I am a dowser, and a very good dowser, thats not arrogance just how it is.
I can measure to perfection the system that allows creation, Yo7u need to mirror that.
It's basically all to fibonacci sequences and measure, or the basic geometric framework is, but it is part of a trinity.
The geometry provides the framework, but the dual spin aether flows about on the framework, always going to points of least resistance and attraction.

Everything that is created on the matrix system becomes haronically tuned and resonates out causing interferance patterns in the flowing aether ( think of the Aztec line creations, they display the interferance patterns, especially the spider which is two inline points one larger than the other)

This is the code that allows STUFF that is contained within DNA mirror faced spirals to escape and coalesce with other similer to form the elements, see walter russell for a bettr picture of that.
Fabulous work, well done.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #123
Christo888
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Gregor awesome tie-in. And everyone else's parts too... holy cow. I wonder if 'Ophiuchus' coming up soon folds into this?
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:58 PM   #124
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If anyone can help with the most appropriate scale it would be greatly appreciated. I am using five-limit just intonation which is based on the primes 2, 3, & 5. My previous scale was most related to "pythagorean tuning" and was based on the primes of 2 & 3 only.

I'm reading through this article at the moment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation

You should take a look at it for yourself if want to gain a more thorough but basic understanding to harmonic theory. Anyways, it seems pythagorean tuning actually used 13 notes! I am not completely positive on this but going to verify it mathematically.

EDIT NOTE: Look at the second/latter Indian scale on the Wiki article. It's based on 22 notes which essentially looks like it merges the notation systems together including all of the ratios! I'm gonna have to play around with this a little.

Last edited by GregorArturo; 11-19-2008 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:09 AM   #125
Greg10036
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Excellent research. Thank you for sharing this great use of bandwidth. This is the type of thing Avalon is meant to do. Peace.
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