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Old 12-08-2008, 11:25 AM   #1
ROSEKAMINSKI
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Default Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Wingmakers.com Labeled Hoax, By The Hoaxer Himself !

http://www.rense.com/ufo2/wing.htm


HOAX!
Wingmakers.com Labeled Hoax...
And By The Hoaxer Himself?
11-28-98


The following email from Ed Wolfe <ewolfe@involved.com to Mark Hempel speaks for itself. An email from Mr. Hempel to which Mr. Wolfe refers follows...

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:22:08 -0800
From: ewolfe@involved.com (Ed Wolfe)
To: Mark Hempel <mhempel@southbaygroup.com

This is a new one on me. A hoaxer debunking his own creation. Details follow...

Mark Hempel wrote:

[snip]

I initially tried newsgroups trying to stir up feedback, but because I sort of 'spammed' the UFO newsgroups, I don't think people took my efforts seriously."

Not only did Mark spam the newsgroups, he lied. He said that he had come across this site (wingmakers) and that it was real interesting, had a lot of info, including music, that he claims he couldn't get to play when he tried it, and he asked for people's opinions of the site.

He also said there was no one claiming ownership of the site, and no webmaster was listed.

One problem is, he sent that message out with the email address: wingmakers@worldnet.att.net

That alone makes it hard to believe that he just stumbled across the site.

A simple WhoIs search of Internic reveals one Mark Hempel as the owner of the site also. Of course, he tells us that he secured that domain name, but he saw fit to promote the site under a false pretense on usenet.

But even worse, he posted to another usenet group completely unrelated to the conspiracy/ufo groups, and this time, he appears to have told to the truth. He was addressing his peers - fellow artists. Here's what he wrote to alt.art.video:

-- begin posted article --

Anyone interested in making a film for the net? I have all the content. I created the site to be the blueprint for a film or TV series. It's taken 3 years to produce all of the content. I created everything you'll see on the site. It's completed integrated. I call this Immersive Multimedia Art Forms (IMAF). IMAFs are experimental, but very powerful ways to experience art.

They're ideal -- in my opinon -- for conversion into film. Only about 60% of the total content for this site is posted, but you'll see how extensive it is. It takes most people 10-12 hours to complete the site if they read/view and consider every page. You're invited. This is one of the only IMAFs on the web I know about. If you know of others, please let me know.

www.wingmakers.com

Mark -- end posted article --

So now we already have three different versions from him about his knowledge of the site. But wait, there's more...

So I began my own research into this community via the web.

In doing so, I came across numerous web sites that had email addresses of people who were expert and/or experienced in this field. Since about a week ago, I sent out about 30 emails to a wide variety of people. My efforts were to seek your advice and help in assessing the wingmaker site.

It was in this message that he said the reporter, Anne, had the last name of Anderson. Being that Anne's sole contact with the top secret group was with a person named Dr. Anderson, this was just sloppy and stupid.

Over the course of employing your help, I've come to the following conclusion based in part on your feedback and my own research. Not all of you will probably agree, but I believe the site is indeed an elaborate hoax.

Yes. A hoax created by Mark and a few friends. Possibly in part to help promote a CD that is coming out soon, (or that was recently put out) on which, Mark is one of the musicians. The group is called 'Soul Food' and the music on their debut release called "Breathe" sounds remarkably like the music that the futurians left in New Mexico 850 years ago.

Or perhaps it's what the person who hired me claimed it was, an experimental art site.

Perhaps, and it's a great work of some sort of art, but like one usenet poster said in response to your posting, "I like my art to be signed."

What follows are the reasons I've come to this conclusion:

[snip]

1) The music is too contemporary sounding. It just doesn't sound like something that would be produced 750 years in the future. I really like the music, but I've had musicians listen to it and they don't hear many sounds that seem futuristic. Every sound that they heard could be replicated today on a synthesizer or digital sampler.

You should know. Or, is it a completely different Mark Hempel on 'Soul Food's' CD that just happens to play the same sort of music you have on your wingmaker's site?

[snip]

6) I had a linguist analyze the speech of "Dr. Anderson" and she didn't believe a man with such a supposedly high IQ would talk like he does, particularly if he worked 80 hours per week with others like himself. People with high I.Q.'s can talk in any way that pleases them.

On the other hand, I happen to have analyzed Mark's speech and that of Anne and concluded that they are the same person.

The most glaring evidence is that Mark has a habit of mis-using a common phrase. There are many phrases people use to resume their narrative. Things like, "On any road..." (british), "In any event" and "In any case," and "At any rate." All of these begin with prepositions.

Mark's uses the phrase, "At any rate," except he has the unusual habit of dropping the word "At." He just starts a sentence with, "Any rate..."

Incredibly, Anne does this same exact thing.

I've never seen anyone delete the preposition from those phrases before, and yet, both Mark and Anne do it.

[snip]

Therefore, I'm calling this a hoax or experimental art site. Afterall, to be fair with my client, she never claimed it was anything but an experimental art site from an art collective in Norway.

Why would she or you create art that claims to be revealing previously unknown data?

A film is a work of art, but if the film depicted something as an actual event that didn't actually occur, then the film is a hoax, a lie, or propaganda.

There's no doubt that this site is a work of art, but why does it portray itself as something real. It's first sentence speaks of a discovery in New Mexico.

If it's just art, should'nt it have a disclaimer of some sort?

Or, is it an experimental art form - one that attempts to fool the viewer into thinking that it isn't art?

[snip]

It was just the lack of communication from her that got my suspicions up, and caused me to take the time to read the text of the site-which to me was very odd.

Then why did you post to alt.art.video that you made everything on the site and that it took you three years to do it?

[snip]

I still haven't heard from her (my client), but I'm asking your help to pronounce the site a hoax,

You got it.

Feel free to pass this along.

Ed Wolfe

_______________________

This is the letter to which Mr. Wolfe Alludes in the above. It is a response to Michael Lindemann's inquiry about the similarity between the alleged 'wingmakers' music and a contemporary CD called 'Soulfood'.


From: "Mark Hempel" <mhempel@southbaygroup.com
To: <CNINews1@aol.com
Cc: <eotl@west.net
Subject: RE: Wingmakers = Hoax?
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:54:13 -0600

Hi, Michael,

Yes, I know this album very well (Soulfood). I used to work at NetRadio for approximately 2 years. I was in charge of operations (COO), before we sold the company to Navarre, and I moved into consulting. Anyway, my involvement with Gordy's CD project was the following: He shared it with me when it was in early production (Gordy was a DJ at netradio under the name DJ Free). I told him it was a great project and that he should finish it and play it over the Internet via NetRadio's new age and world music channels. I did not produce or co-produce the album. I simply encouraged him. You can buy the album at most music stores and in the credits my name is not mentioned as producer, co-producer, or musician. He simply thanks me in the credits (along with about twenty other people). I believe he was thankful for my support and willingness to let him play it on the NetRadio "airwaves". As for the similarity of sound between Soulfood and WingMakers, yes, I can hear similarities too, but they seem more in the use of nature sounds than musical instruments, vocals, etc. Also, there are strings used extensively in WingMakers, and I don't think there are any strings in SoulFood that I can recollect.

I don't know if that answers your question, but I can't take credit for something I didn't do. However, it seems that your real question is whether I can't take credit for something I did do. I think you'd agree that to produce the WingMakers site, someone or probably some group would have to go to a lot of effort. To me, those paintings don't look like they were created in a few weeks time or even months. I don't disagree with anyone that it's a hoax. It probably is, and that seems to be the prevailing opinion of those who have looked at the site.

I've done my own research, and with the help of about 25 other people (I didn't know before a week ago), I think the issues that are most probably hoax-revealing are:

1) The music is too contemporary sounding. It just doesn't sound like
something that would be produced 750 years in the future. I really like the
music (I made a CD of it), but I've had musicians listen to it and they
don't hear many sounds that seem futuristic. Every sound that they heard
could be replicated today on a synthesizer or digital sampler.
2) According to a scientist who read the entire text of the site, somewhere
in the interview transcripts section there's a reference to the Pleaides,
which is claimed to be the seed race of the WingMakers and humankind. This
scientist says the Pleaides is a relatively young nebula, and therefore this
is not possible.
3) I had an ex-Navy intelligence officer review the site, and he read the
ACIO memos and said they're completely out of protocol standards and he
doesn't believe any agency or department of the NSA would violate these
protocols.
4) The glyphs have been further researched and the connection to Sumerian
culture seems to be a stretch. There are some similarities, but for the most
part, these glyphs are not recognizable to an anthropologist that looked at
the site.
5) I had a person who had read a book by Courtney Brown called Cosmic
Voyage, and he quoted passages from the book that seemed very similar to the
writings in the transcripts where they talk about the Martians, Greys, and
remote viewing in general. It's either an amazing corroboration or someone
lifted the ideas from the book. (I sent an email to Dr. Brown asking him to
look at the site. I haven't heard back from him yet).
6) I had a linguist analyze the speech of "Dr. Anderson" and she didn't
believe a man with such a supposedly high IQ would talk like he does,
particularly if he worked 80 hours per week with others like himself. She
felt his language skills represented someone with above average
intelligence, but certainly not a genius.
7) For my two-cents, I just can't believe that the crystals could be so high
tech. That just doesn't make sense to me. Synthetic or not. Crystals are not
a technology. So to me, the fact that the technology artifacts aren't shown
more or in more detail, to me, that's the most certain proof that the site
is not what it claims. I was on some new age site doing some research and
saw a crystal that looked extremely similar to one of the artifacts (I
forget which chamber, but it's the one that has two distinctive pointed
ends.)

There're a few more things that lead me to the conclusion it's a hoax, but I think these are enough. I think someone should just call it what it is. I don't know who the grand de-bunker is for the UFO/paranormal community, but the site, as far as I'm concerned should be called a hoax. I believe it is. Perhaps then it will reduce the traffic in my email box, which would be appreciated.

For my part, anyone who sends me an email asking about the site, will get a response from me that is similar to the 7 reasons I just gave for why I believe it's a hoax. I hope you'll help me in doing the same.

Thanks for your email.

Mark
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:38 AM   #2
slartibartfast
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

You seem to be a little frustrated about all this.
I not sure what your agenda is in this case:

This is from the wingmakers site:
http://www.wingmakers.com/faqs.html

Question 10 - There are emails attributed to Mark Hempel that claim he wrote the materials for the purpose of creating a movie or an Immersive Multimedia Art Form (IMAF). Is this true?

There were at least 10 emails that were attributed to me (Mark Hempel) that I'm aware of. Most of these appeared shortly after I launched the site. One claimed that the site was a hoax. Another claimed I was taking credit for creating all of the content. A third made the claim that I had developed the material to launch a movie. A forth advanced the notion that I had developed an experimental art form called an IMAF. The rest were of a similar nature. In any case, I didn't write these emails, nor do I know who did, or for what purpose someone was impersonating me.


Maybe this is clearing some things out.

Greetings and love.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

For the most part, we are all big boys and girls here and can decide for ourselves through our own heartfelt intuition what is a hoax for us and what is not, but thanks for the info, and hey...I suppose the typo of 'wind'makers instead of wingmakers in your title was done purposely...or was it a hoax?!
Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Thanks for the heads up...anything that allows each of us to move forward in love through our own personal experiences and choices and decisions...whether we see them as a hoax or a blessing...is all energy that we simply decide to use personally as a benefit or not.

Onward and Upward!
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Thanks for your communication, Rose.

Personally I don't form opinions based on other peoples natter and criticisms. I found the interview with James to be stunningly relevant in aiding me to align heretofore disparate data. Lots has "come together" for me since reading it.

I'll read it again and again and gain more insight as I do, I'm sure.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

It resonates with me BIG TIME ...... so if Ronald McDonald wrote it and there is not an ounce of truth well so be it ... It opens my mind and heart and that's all that matters.

Anyone with a solid understanding of metaphysics and spirituality will tell you it is quality information.

From My Mac to Yours

Skyfreak
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:35 PM   #6
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Did people actually believe that the wingmakers stuff was true? To me it seems to be an allegorical story in the manner of the Celestine Prophecy, a bit of truth wrapped up in a good yarn, with extra multimedia goodies thrown in for good measure.
I wonder what version of reason they were using http://www.propellerheads.se/?

why is this on 2 threads?
(the link worked on the other one)
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:39 PM   #7
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I'm not claiming to buy into the whole wingmaker material, but I do find intense pleasure from the artwork, music, poetry and stories. Does it really matter if it's true or not?

It seems to me that if there is some truth in there the PTB would not hesitate to try and discredit it, something to think about.

Peace
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:49 PM   #8
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Post Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Yes, I agree with you, 'SleepingNoMore' ~

Anyway, it ties in with this very current interview with a Master Researcher; Investigative Mythologist-- William Henry --who speaks here on Dec. 3, '08 :

'Mentioning' -- " Light Body Activation " :

http://www.rumormillnewsradio.com/au...liamhenry1.mp3

http://www.rumormillnewsradio.com/au...liamhenry2.mp3

* {The 2nd Hour 'really' hits home ~ } ; )
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:56 PM   #9
feardia
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
Yes, I agree with you, 'SleepingNoMore' ~

http://www.rumormillnewsradio.com/au...liamhenry1.mp3

http://www.rumormillnewsradio.com/au...liamhenry2.mp3

* {The 2nd Hour 'really' hits home ~ } ; )
was this posted last night too, or am i on some kind of crazy time loop today?
and your on for 5 mins

Last edited by feardia; 12-08-2008 at 02:01 PM. Reason: meant to leave the links
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

The wingmakers material hits me with a very positive note.

I really enjoyed the writen Camelot interview with James.

I have connected the dots on these ideas and it is hitting home.

Peace
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:33 PM   #11
MMe M
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This is counterproductive. Not your post but the idiots who play these games. The illuminati do this all the time. Dis info. You never know which side to believe, exactly where they want you to be. Out of chaos and so on ya know.

Lets just focus on the knowns and what we need to do without stupid distractions.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:38 PM   #12
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Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?


That is possibly the funniest thing I have read anywhere in years. Very funny, I cant stop laughing.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:07 PM   #13
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I sometimes have bad gas;please dont ban me...
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:22 PM   #14
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strike 2
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

Thanks for the post Rose. And thanks for the clarification Slart. It's interesting to see dis-info discredited.

It makes perfect sense to me that efforts would be made to slam the site since so much government "truth" has been woven into the material.

But what you can't really destroy are the RESULTS that the material actually produces in peoples lives. By simply employing the breathing exercises over the past 2 days, I've already had an extremely MAGICAL growth experience.

And if it is a HOAX, I guess I like hoaxes that teach me how to be unified, compassionate, loving and interconnected to all of life.

I'm sending love to all of you right now!
Becky

P.S. Sorry about the WIND, I had a bean burrito for lunch.

Rose, I hope you're laughing about the windmakers teasing, it's just too hard to resist!
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:20 PM   #16
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It's a good mix of the self realization fellowship paramahansa teaachings/breathing exercises , Sitchen, and the law of one material (he negates). This 1998 portal seems like his back door escape out of a rising need for direction. The breathing exercises are an incredibly powerful focusing tool but nothing new.
Q. What is the equivalent to this breathing in our light bodies if it is the through line?
seems like the through line is buy the cd "soul food "

quite an elaborate sales pitch for an album.

reminds me of carlos castaneda's writing. lots of holes.

really fun read. I like the part about extradimensional entities staying here too long and being stuck here,"trapped by gravity" reminds me of Hotel California.

If we are swindled into this self perpetuating paradigm then there is something inherent to the human spirit that still is satisfied/attracted by this cosmic co-dependence. we love sex and wild strawberry shortcake.

what is this gratitude he speaks of? vibrations? back to the cd.

somebody take this guy camping. we can enjoy the material world as we sail towards our preclandestined quintessence . We are hibrids of several dimensions. 3d is our first language.

this guy wants to throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm thankful for the earth and my body that I've taken much better care of than most do. this is also a lesson. he sounds like the kid who lies about being ill to stay inside for recess. I built my own house.

whatever I did to get such a good hand I'm aware and generous in return. this life transformation is another place to further learn to honor each other. I teach and learn every day even from this. I'm wary of what's being sold in James' punk rock paradigm. Why and what is he hiding from?
LOVE?


loving god's plan.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post
I'm sending love to all of you right now!
Becky

P.S. Sorry about the WIND, I had a bean burrito for lunch.
Big TOOT--Big TOOT--BiG TOOT





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Old 12-08-2008, 08:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

No. It is very well done and highly entertaining.
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindeye View Post
I sometimes have bad gas;please dont ban me...
Also gives you a whole new meaning for "out of body experiance"
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:48 AM   #20
Dominic
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Default Re: Should we remove windmakers from our forum?

This new member is posting a spam mass mailing

Dis info agent in my mind.

I really am enjoying the Wingmakers stuff


Peace

Last edited by Dominic; 12-09-2008 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 12-09-2008, 03:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg10036 View Post
No. It is very well done and highly entertaining.
Yes I totally agree. And it does not matter if the information was published before someplace else either. Truth is Truth, no matter where it comes from. This information resonated with my own knowing as credible to me.
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Old 12-09-2008, 04:48 AM   #22
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Sure. Censorship is real cool. Block everything. That makes it easier to find out who you really are.
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
This new member is posting a spam mass mailing

Dis info agent in my mind.

I really am enjoying the Wingmakers stuff


Peace
I agree.......... Some people should
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Yes I totally agree. And it does not matter if the information was published before someplace else either.
That's true but is does matter that James fails to credit the identifiable sources of his work. Rather, he discredits and dismisses them. There is an obvious subtext to that curiosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by efields View Post
Truth is Truth, no matter where it comes from. This information resonated with my own knowing as credible to me.
Truth originates from one ultimate source and we do resonate with it when we see it's reflection because we originate from the same source. But the MO of the power elite on this planet is to use concepts of truth to deliver their own agenda. So 'resonance' is always assured. It is a subtle art which they have mastered by catering to our innate sensibilities.

James' work picks it's psychological and historical targets carefully while delivering it's own payload in the jargon of spirituality and service.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:49 PM   #25
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I was going to write a long explanation but now I am going to take my own advise and remain simple. Its astonishing how no matter how many lives we have all lead that human beings always reject the simple in favour of a huge elaborate story with flying machines and strange coloured aliens.

Is it so difficult to give up on all the drama that we create with these stories and just believe that breathing could bring us to a place of realisation.

Remember the first response of a human when she/he is afraid is that they forget to breathe, so fear stops breath.

I do wish that people who don't agree with this or that report here could just do so quietly. Its the fame of starting an incendary thread I think and all the drama that comes with it. yawn.................................

Love and light and breathes to you all.
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