Is Obama a Communist or Socialist?

[Moonbaby]

It is definately one or the other. Pure communism for the world would be great, everyone would have what they need to sustain a well balanced life while passing through this world. Unfortunately, when you add the 'human' factor of greed, sloth, etc... things get really ugly.

Obama thinks that 'redistributing the wealth' will change the world. Unfortunately he is either just naive or worse yet, more corrupt that the current administration. I would like to think he is naive but that is difficult based on this guys past associations (ala Resco.) So if Obama gets in, you can bet your bippy that we are going to get a royal screwing.

While I make less than the threshold that Obama says will get tax increases, companies are going to go offshore to produce, sell the goods to the US at inflated rates, make and claim a very small profit in the US and reap the big profits in the manufacturing country. We get screwed again and there is nothing that can be done to stop it except voting for McCain.

I would like to have a "re-do" on the primary more than anyone but that is not going to happen. I truely believe that voting for McCain is the least of the two evils.

[gwynned]

Originally Posted by Moonbaby

It is definately one or the other. Pure communism for the world would be great, everyone would have what they need to sustain a well balanced life while passing through this world. Unfortunately, when you add the 'human' factor of greed, sloth, etc... things get really ugly.

Obama thinks that 'redistributing the wealth' will change the world. Unfortunately he is either just naive or worse yet, more corrupt that the current administration. I would like to think he is naive but that is difficult based on this guys past associations (ala Resco.) So if Obama gets in, you can bet your bippy that we are going to get a royal screwing.

While I make less than the threshold that Obama says will get tax increases, companies are going to go offshore to produce, sell the goods to the US at inflated rates, make and claim a very small profit in the US and reap the big profits in the manufacturing company. We get screwed again and there is nothing that can be done to stop it except voting for McCain.

I would like to have a "re-do" on the primary more than anyone but that is not going to happen. I truely believe that voting for McCain is the least of the two evils.

I'm very confused by your thread. Are you saying that communism (the sharing of the bounty of the earth according to the needs of the people) is a good thing, but trying to get there is a waste of time? That appears to be a most cynical approach to the matter. That would have been like slaves saying to themselves, we can never be free, so let's work with the slaveholders that can get us a great deal.

Rest assured, Obama is neither a socialist or a communist. He has taken money from Wall Street and his plans are limited to working with the system as it is. Any "redistribution of wealth" will mean that you and I will get some crumbs to avoid a lynch mob, while the mobsters on Wall Street will eat their cake and have it too.

In November, we get to vote for our slaveholders of choice.

[gwynned]

What would a socialist approach to the financial crisis look like? I don't hear Obama suggesting ANYthing like this.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oc...soci-o15.shtml

Emergency measures would be taken to transform the great banks, hedge funds, insurance companies and financial houses into public utilities. They would be placed under the democratic control of the working class, with safeguards for the savings of small depositors. Their resources would be used for productive and socially useful purposes and to alleviate the suffering of the population.

Trillions of dollars would be allocated to rebuild the infrastructure, provide new and high-quality housing, improve education, provide universal health care and access to higher education, and clean up the environment. Everyone would be guaranteed a job and a decent wage. The workweek would be reduced, with no loss in pay, and wages would be fully indexed to account for inflation.

The tax burden would be shifted from the working class to the richest 10 percent of the population.

There would be a full and public investigation into the activities of the banks and financial firms and the books of all major corporations would be opened to public inspection.

The wealth of financial industry executives and large stockholders would be appropriated, and they, along with their servants among the political elite, would face criminal investigation for the plundering of the economy that has led to the current crisis

[goody8504]

you seem to know quite a bit about 'the real obama,' yet you don't seem to have done your homework on mccain, his POW lies, what seems like daily slip ups, the keating five scandal, his fear/war mongering...not to even mention the fact that he's white. anybody who studies secret societies knows that these guys are extremely racist. why have the PTB suddenly decided to let a black guy have a shot at being president? they haven't. but they're losing what little control they have left, so there's not much they can do about it.

i'm not saying i support obama. but to say that mccain is the lesser of two evils i find intriguing

[Trutht5]

Originally Posted by gwynned

I'm very confused by your thread. Are you saying that communism (the sharing of the bounty of the earth according to the needs of the people) is a good thing, but trying to get there is a waste of time? That appears to be a most cynical approach to the matter. That would have been like slaves saying to themselves, we can never be free, so let's work with the slaveholders that can get us a great deal.

Rest assured, Obama is neither a socialist or a communist. He has taken money from Wall Street and his plans are limited to working with the system as it is. Any "redistribution of wealth" will mean that you and I will get some crumbs to avoid a lynch mob, while the mobsters on Wall Street will eat their cake and have it too.

In November, we get to vote for our slaveholders of choice.

[Humble Janitor]

He's neither and I don't see the point of this thread.

[Trutht5]

Originally Posted by Trutht5

I think anyone who worries about Communism or Socialism..
Think about what these labels really mean.
Is America fitting either label?
I think perhaps so!

[Pomguymguy]

Intresting idea !

But who is going to pay back the trillions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
that is owed - - stolen from the sheeple



The $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ system does not work - How many millions of people have fought in wars over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that has never even existed in the first place!

Great Cathedrals - Palaces lined with gold - Plush offices with real leather - Grand Central stations - Banks with marble floors, etc, etc $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

50% of the world survive on less than $2.00 a day

Crazy Ideals ! Been There Done That !

[Eli in MI]

It's astounding to read how some people can be so reductionist.

In your mind, there are only two options. Obama is either a socialist or a communist. What about Muslim terrorist, or black supremacist? What makes you so certain he's not the Big Bad Wolf or the Boogeyman?

Perhaps he is simply someone who's trying to help. God knows we need it.

Obama is squeaky clean. That's why you see the Republicans grasping at straws trying to find *any* dirt on him, instead of arguing the real issues our country faces. Rezco, Ayers, Wright. Nothing sticks. The guy is simply an inspirational leader with solid plans to get this country back on track, and the majority Americans are too smart to buy any more bullocks about him. What I cannot understand is why so many people here on Avalon have a negative opinion of someone who speaks to our highest ideas about ourselves.

You placed yourself outside of Obama's proposed tax increases, so you are claiming you make less than $250K/year. If money is your primary concern, check this website for a non-partisan, non-profit interpretation of each major candidates' tax plans:

Election Tax Plans interpreted by the professor of Accounting at the University of Southern Maine.

Obama has never proposed a "redistribution of wealth" program. He plans to close tax loopholes for companies that ship jobs overseas. Your information sources are either lying to you, or you are basing your entire opinion of Obama on fear and paranoia.

goody: I couldn't agree more. The PTB are decidedly racist.

gwynned: Your two posts seem to conflict each other. In your first message, you refer to both major candidates as "slaveholders". And then in your second message, you quote WSWS and happen to summarize Obama's plans quite closely. Investing in infrastructure, education, health care, and shifting the tax burden to the richest among us read as veritable bullet points on Obama's website.

BarackObama.com/issues

If anyone really thinks John McCain is the "lesser of two evils", ask yourself this: Are you better off than you were 8 years ago? If you are, go ahead, vote for McCain. If you're not, there is one option to try to help change things.

John McCain has no qualms presenting Bush policies as his own. There is no room for discussion on this. McCain has simply presented no new plans. His presidency would represent Bush's third term, with the same far right-wing ideologists in charge.

You can either base your vote on hope and trust, or fear. The decision is yours. I prefer hope:

Looking glass technology has been dismantled. The PTB are being forced to fly blind, and we have a chance to dramatically change the way our world operates.

I urge everyone to please consider Obama's leadership and judgment, and not give in to any fear-based disinformation or preconceived notions about him. Here is a guy that literally gets hundreds of death threats every day, and yet he is still trying to help.

Read this other thread for more discussion: The NWO, ETs, the economy, and Obama

[gwynned]

Originally Posted by Trutht5

I think anyone who worries about Communism or Socialism..
Think about what these labels really mean.
Is America fitting either label?
I think perhaps so!

In what way? Please define what you mean by that. In either system, the resources are owned by the people. Seems to me the resources in the US are owned by the bankers until they run into trouble, at which time they 'socialize' their losses to the rest of us.

[Jenny]

I even won't go there with Americans.

Americans are so deeply biased on Socialisme I won't even try to start a discourse with them on that.

Jenny.

Netherlands.

[BlueEgyptian]

Why does he have to be a communist or a socialist? You should define what those terms mean so that people understand what you mean. I think it would be extreme to call him either…

I mean, for all intents and purposes, socialism is what happens when the government buys huge banks in “trouble”. This is happening right now. How do you answer for the “socialism” going on right as we speak? How do you interpret Obama socialism? Is it the same?




Also, “redistributing the wealth” is a rather simplistic way of looking at what needs to happen in this country. The wealth of a country is produced from the foundation, upwards. That means that the common person must have the basics to build for himself, then for the collective whole.

What we have seen over an extended period of time is that wealth move upwards into the hands of very few, while our social commons---schools, hospitals, fire dept, police depts., roads, parks, bridges, etc. have been left to dilapidate. There seems to always be room for more cuts in funding for the commons, which affects everyone.

What we have seen is this country slowly become a big “ATM machine”. Have you noticed that EVERYTHING seems to be a scam nowadays? How do you account for a person not making a single late payment on several accounts, and then makes an error on one, just to have interest rates and payments on ALL accounts go up? The person suffering from this surely just didn’t “pull himself up by his bootstraps” hard enough, right? And then he looks around to find bridges collapsing? Where is the money going?

I wished Obama had not said “redistribution of wealth”, because it is beyond that. We need to go back to building “collective wealth”. That multi-trillion dollar derivative number was exclusive wealth based on a numbers game, gambling and percentages. How much there was there? Building a “collective wealth” would mean that we actually produce something here again!

Neither of these candidates have simple answers. I still open to hearing both. But to truly think that Obama is a communist OR socialist, I may as well believe that there is an evil “liberal media” out there waiting to corrupt my mind. No disrespect at all, but I just don’t think it is as simple as that.

[Moonbaby]

Originally Posted by Eli in MI

Obama is squeaky clean. That's why you see the Republicans grasping at straws trying to find *any* dirt on him, instead of arguing the real issues our country faces. Rezco, Ayers, Wright. Nothing sticks. The guy is simply an inspirational leader with solid plans to get this country back on track, and the majority Americans are too smart to buy any more bullocks about him. What I cannot understand is why so many people here on Avalon have a negative opinion of someone who speaks to our highest ideas about ourselves.

I find it truely amazing that you think this man is 'squeaky clean.' Do you also think that Ayers wasn't a terrorist? How about the toxic Rev. Wright? Obama sat in the pew for 20 years, had Wright marry him and baptise his baby and was even his spiritual advisor before the tapes came out, then Obama says Wright never said those things in his presence? Give me a break. The left-wing media has taken a one-sided push to get Obama elected, so much so that even a blind/deaf man can see/hear it.

Obama has never proposed a "redistribution of wealth" program.

Read about Obama's 95% tax cut here in the Wall Street Journal: [URL=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html[/URL]
We are going to become a welfare state under Obama.

gwynned: Your two posts seem to conflict each other. In your first message, you refer to both major candidates as "slaveholders". And then in your second message, you quote WSWS and happen to summarize Obama's plans quite closely. Investing in infrastructure, education, health care, and shifting the tax burden to the richest among us read as veritable bullet points on Obama's website.

Perhaps you missed Goody's point, the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS) and Obama's website have the same points, hmm, does that make Obama someone with socialist views? Me thinks so...

If anyone really thinks John McCain is the "lesser of two evils", ask yourself this: Are you better off than you were 8 years ago? If you are, go ahead, vote for McCain. If you're not, there is one option to try to help change things.

Personally, I am better off, my home is almost paid for, I have two beautiful children. As I said in my orginal post, I wish we could redo the primaries, bet there would be different results. I wish that Colin Powel would run for president, unfortunately, he is too smart.

You can either base your vote on hope and trust, or fear. The decision is yours. I prefer hope:

How can you trust a man that changes their story when caught in a lie? I guess if they just continue saying the same thing enough times, people will believe it's true? God help us if Obama, Pelosi and Reid are together in power, we are going down big-time.

I urge everyone to please consider Obama's leadership and judgment, and not give in to any fear-based disinformation or preconceived notions about him. Here is a guy that literally gets hundreds of death threats every day, and yet he is still trying to help.

I too urge everyone to please consider Obama' leadership and judgement (ala, Rezco, Wright, Ayers, etc.) this is what you will get if this man is elected.

[Moonbaby]

Blue Egyptian, good post. The consumism we have engaged in is just crazy. The fact that the US is 2% of the population but comsumes 25% of the world production is outrageous. i often wonder why my soul decided to incarnate into an 'American' body. My father always taught me not to spend more than what you make and always save something for a rainy day. Our country spends like a drunken sailor with an American Express card (no limit.) When it comes time to pay the bill, we just finance the debt with T-bills (mortgaging the future) or turn up the printing presses (devaluing the dollar.)

It has got to stop, we need to live within our means. If that means giving up the HD flat panel TV then so be it. I am starting to understand the lessons we need to learn while here on earth and the major one is compassion toward our fellow man. I don't know how this will all pan out but I continue to think and pray in a positive sense that we live to experience better days.

[Humble Janitor]

It's clear that you only came here to peddle an agenda and nothing more.

A famous person once said that the more people repeat a lie, the more it becomes truth.

That seems to be your only motivation.

[mntruthseeker]

today I read another report regarding Obama, and he is not who we think he is. I feel today, that if you are white, you are about to be in a world of trouble. We will be blamed for the sins of our governmental leaders Mischelle obviously hates the whites. she is ranting again


http://africanpress.wordpress.com/20...ephone-to-api/

[mntruthseeker]

end of time
do you follow the post of obama around all day? I value your opinion but it doesnt do any good to pity those that do not see eye to eye with you. I need no pity

Obama is deffinately a trying to paint a different picture of who he is.

[Frank Samuel]

Africa, Haiti, Somalia, etc.. many countries are cheering for this guy, especially third world countries. One thing I know that whatever or however corrupt he is I do believe the third world countrie will benefit. I for one think is about time. The Katrina fiasco show me how much minorities are worth in the good ol USA. I love my country and feel we need to take better care of our citizents. By the way Obama is black, did I scare you ? Maybe they are all the same but wether we like it or not is either or, Obama or McCain. As a soldier I would tell you that a POW camp is not an easy thing to go through in life 5 yrs. folks. Psychologicaly it leaves some serious scars, winning, winning ,we must win the war is McCain's chant. I say lets get our children out of harm's way now. Used diplomacy, use some common sense for God's sake.

[RSF]

Yuk. This guy's going to do things to help Americans, especially middle class.
I only wish we had such elected intelligence here.
RSF

[JohnWdoe]

The best way to rule people is to transcend pigeon holes.

Barack does not need to call himself anything besides the president to be.

For that alone i cannot nor will not trust Mr Obama he simply is a square fitting into a circle.

[BlueEgyptian]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

today I read another report regarding Obama, and he is not who we think he is. I feel today, that if you are white, you are about to be in a world of trouble. We will be blamed for the sins of our governmental leaders Mischelle obviously hates the whites. she is ranting again


http://africanpress.wordpress.com/20...ephone-to-api/

Obama isn’t who we think he is? Oh my God…!!! Who is he???

Geez, all this time with a name like O’ Bama, I was thinking he was Irish…has he been lying to us?

And how are only “white” people going to be in a world of hurt if he gets elected? I had no idea they were to blame for anything.

And while you’re at it, could you define “white” people? Italian-Americans as well as other Eastern European ethnics weren’t even considered “white” until sometime after World War II…and from what I can tell, O’ Bama is half-“white”…and…Geez…I’m so confused….

[Eli in MI]

Moonbaby:

Wow. Your entire last post proves my points over and over and over again. It's clear that you are a person that is only concerned with himself. Perhaps you *are* better off than you were 8 years ago. Do you happen to care that the vast majority of people AREN'T?

You would rather attempt to slander this man with false accusations of treason and terrorism than discuss the real issues. If you argue on the real issues Americans are facing, your party loses. Everyone sees that. You are what is known as a campaign parrot. Just get your daily talking points and you're off to the races, logic and sensibility be damned. Not to mention respect for your fellow humans.

Let me ask you: Do you think believe the 9/11 commission report?

19 hijackers, directed by Osama Bin Laden, took over 4 commercial jets with boxcutters and, while evading the Air Defense System (NORAD), hit 75% of their targets. In turn, World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, and 7 collapsed due to structural failure through fire in "pancake" fashion, while the plane that hit the Pentagon vaporized on impact, as did the plane that crashed in Shanksville. The 911 Commission found that there were no warnings for this act of terrorism, while multiple government failures prevented adequate defense.

Be careful! If you don't completely agree with the above, well then you're an anti-American terrorist sympathizer, just like Reverend Wright.


How can you trust a man that changes their story when caught in a lie? I guess if they just continue saying the same thing enough times, people will believe it's true?

This statement stands on its own. You're projecting the GOP's issues onto others.

Just how out of touch are you? Do you think this country is on the right track or wrong track? Do you approve, disapprove, strongly approve, or strongly disapprove of the job George W. Bush is doing?

Go ahead, think whatever you want, and vote for whoever you want. I'll not argue with an idiot, lest I be considered one.

I thought this place would take the discussion up a level. Your old ways of thinking are dying, my friend. Good luck in the days ahead.

[mntruthseeker]

The reason I said White people was that every single time they "cry out angrily about a person..........its white racist person........Was that wrong of me, so sorry, didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings. I have heard nothing but racist remarks since Obama first started running. Why do you suppose that is? Because he is Black of course.

I would love to see Obama change the world but how can I put my faith behind him when its always a short step to being called racist if you don't?

That is not what the world needs. The world needs someone who is going to put the value of the human being above their own pleasures.........
I would hope to get a president that didn't use drugs or alcohol on a daily basis. One that certaintly didn't belong to any sort of society.........secret or open

Now, Obama wants change, and I'm sure he will get into the White House, citizenship or non-citizenship. Rumor has it he loves his drugs, well I hope that isn't true. Who needs another addict in the white house?

It doesn't really matter the color of his or anyone's skin......as long as they do not use it as a crutch. That is what I have witness. The race card played over and over again. Black is beautiful and he and his camp only put themselfs down when they play that card.

I'M JUST TIRED OF HEARING THE RACIST REMARKS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Do you think if he is in office it will be any better? nope. The whites will be in trouble, pure and simple. Mischelle openly displays her hatred.
Did you read the article in the African papers?
Apparently not, if you question my response to it.

I don't like racist remarks by anyone and I'm sorry if mine was taken as such. I was just feeding off her remark. I have always been offended with any racial slur. In the report she used it and they do have a video tape of this.

We have had too much of it in our world already and I hope that when Obama is made president that he will not let down anyone that has worked so hard to put him there and that Mischelle gets over her racial divide.

I am white and I hate what is happening in all the third world countries and I will say that it is not all the whites that have created it. I in fact, don't even believe they are human at all. They just place themselfs in the white shell.

So Mischelle Obama, please blame the right people and leave the White Racist remark out of your sentence. Go and study beliefs with Ophah....she has the right idea

[Frank Samuel]

You guys are just making me laugh !!!
My family is a rainbow of different colors including my children, is a little sad when people get classify white, black, hispanic, asian, arab, etc.
Hey I heard Obama is a arab terrorist, gee who knew.
I'll reckon I won't be voting for that arab... Just kidding guys don't kill me.
Really guys there's not much we could do , the decision is already made.
Hey I heard he's an Arab, Indonesian, Hawaian, Kenyan, Chicagoan terrorist what do you think just asking, cause I'm confused.

[stefaan]

Communists? Socialists? In America? You're just kidden, don't you?

Even if Obama would be communist, socialist, capitalist... it wouldn't change a thing.

If TPTB want communism, they'll get communism (but they don't want it)
If TPTB want socialism, they'll get socialism (but they don't want it)
If TPTB want fascism, they'll get fascism (that, they want very bad)

The president merely can change the surface, the image. Obama would be liked more abroad then McCain, that's for sure. Ok, that's something.

The many PTB have their scenarios ready, all fighting to get theirs through. With Bush in place for 8 years, one scenario has had the advantage: the installation of fascism (search here or Google for Noami Wolf, Noami Klein and if you cannot help it: Alex Jones).
Is this fascism a goal in itself or just the means to achieve something else? Difficult question.
If we see the global financial collapse, the economic collapse; maybe also sudden climate changes, pole shifts or other possible catastrophes, then maybe you can understand why they want Martial Law in place to maintain law and order.
Maybe they fear the public will come to realize how they have been used, exploited, enslaved, stolen from... for decades; so they fear an upraising, revolt?
The things they see in the future are bad in their eyes, so they need Martial Law?
It also could be fascism is the ultimate way to continu milking the people dry?
Whatever. Fascism is being installed slowly but firmly.

If you keep this in mind, what difference will it make, what president you have. And if it makes any difference, what president would you want?
For instance, if you're convinced Martial Law is on it's way, what president would you want in that case? A hardened military man (with the risk Palin has to take over)? A softy family man?
Hard times are coming anyhow. Who do you want?

If you're thinking about communism, socialism... now... I believe you're really missing the point.