Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) - Page 2

10-11-2008, 03:43 PM

This thread is one of the most impressive I've seen here for a long time. I haven't formed an opinion on it yet (I want to watch the movie again before I say anything) but the points raised by both 'sides' are very, very good.

Kudos to all involved.

stefaan · 10-11-2008, 04:26 PM

The best post here (so far), IMO, is the one by Reveling John. He dares to question...

Well, let's say... I am always so stunned to see how deep to the bone most americans are indoctrinated... for instance with the idea that nothing is good except capitalism... when they talk about socialism, communism and anything resembling, it's as if they are talking about the devil, no worse... full of hate.

During and after 9-11, our journalists looked up, as much americans as possible, who were visiting europe, or were working here, just to get their view, their opinion, their feelings on what had happened... A remark a lot of them made during the interviews, was "you're so well informed here". With this they meant, our media are not so one-sided as in the US. Our media was looking at things from different angles. We would get more information than they would in the US, etc.

This "one-sidedness" harms the american people. (And I am sad to say, but europe moves in the same direction.) Internet could break it open, give american more possibilities, more views, more angles. If only they would be prepared to put down their colored spectacles and really see what's out there.

Whatever... We all, americans, european, asians... we all will have to change our ways. None of us is right. If you look at the results, you have to see that. And I hope ASAP.
If we are living in some Endtime period, we will have made this end ourselves.

If you agree or don't agree with Zeitgeist I & II ... it doesn't matter. If only it could make you think, make you wiser in some way...

10-11-2008, 05:02 PM

Controlled opposition.Throw out some good information and then promote the totalitarian technocratic society.Naomi Wolf and Glenn Beck are talking about these things in the mainstream and any child knows they are gatekeepers.

sunnyrap · 10-11-2008, 05:22 PM

This is an interesting thread worth the debate, imo. I just watched Alex Jone's response to Addendum. He made some good points, but a good bit of what he said comes from his well established distrust of almost anyone offering any kind of new solution-system--and validly so. Alex is predisposed to do this because he's created a strong position for himself doing it. But I felt like
this distrust/skepticism is a double edged sword, and he could be throwing out the baby with the bath water with Addendum. I felt that the core concept behind Addendum is valid: service to all over money-power. Translating that correctly is going to be the job, and involve all. Watchdogging decisions running the technology will be very involving. (Isaac Asimov's future visions come to mind).

Any system/solution does not work if there is no intentionality of service to all behind it; and all 'systems' followed blindly will fail a good bit of the time when not supported/checked by personal responsibility. Even staying with the founding father's system had holes in it, because lack of individual responsibility and blind faith in the American system allowed some clever bandits to use our trust in it to hijack it.

Alex seems to want to stay with the original system, minus the elements of The Federal Reserve. But the information on how banking and profit structures work that has been disseminated lately, once everyone is exposed to them and understands it, seems to me to make returning to the profit/free enterprise system almost impossible. Because, according to what I've seen anyway, it ALWAYS leads to inflation and separation of people into haves and have-nots.

His point about Capitalism and Communism being two sides of the same coin is valid also. Communism doesn't really work because someone has to assume control, just like in capitalism. Still the pyramid structure.

It looks to me that we almost need to be freed of the NEED for interdependance for survival, so that we can just join up for the pleasure and stimulation of working on projects together. If there is no survival need to do so, then you are never enslaved. People who enjoy work and accomplishment will still have plenty to do. People who don't needn't get in the way of people who do out of necessity. If plenty can be created for all--no one's coming after someone else's house or stuff... They'll be ignored as uninteresting human beings if they do nothing and don't contribute, so they will quickly find some place to plug in. We are social beings, after all.

Therefore, I don't think Alex vision of people sitting around doing nothing because they don't have to work--therefore being subject to sociopathic behavior is valid, either. It's only valid in the current paradigm.

If you and your fellows have the resources to be out there joyously creating things of interest to them,
and doing whatever you wish is freely available, the array of entertainments we now have will pall very quickly for all but the most immature people, and a desire for new, more exciting frontiers will call, or the intrinsic social instinct will inspire joining some group trying to create something.

I also didn't like Alex' across the board panning of religion. The ancient roots of religion were a training system for teaching universal spiritual concepts and the values--something we must have to advance as a species. How far this training needs to be taken is for better minds than my own. But like any other system unquestioningly followed, it allowed the unscrupulous to take advantage of it. I optimistically believe there will be a point where there is enough spiritual learning absorbed by a critical mass of people that worry about spiritually deformed people doing mischief will evaporate.

There is a Zen aphorism that 'ethics is the best survival'. That's been absolutely reliable in my experience. Unethical behavior eventually leads to the extinction of those who refuse to give it up.

nivosh · 10-11-2008, 06:03 PM

Raulduke, It's a real pleasure to make this conversation with you.
You really touched my heart with the sincerity and wisdom in your words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raulduke
If you meant this honestly, then, I could not be happier.

i meant it totally, and mean it still.

And now for the matter at hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raulduke
It seems to me that Zietgiest Addendum dances around the notion (w/o ever addressing it) that in order for their utopia to exist: something very huge has to rock society so hard, as to deconstruct it completely. And then we could begin building this utopia.

I think this notion is pretty much the notion (or the desire) of all of us here.
I personally feel this strongly. it might be a child like desire but i do want a total change, and the destruction of the old.

regarding Zietgiest Addendum, i felt they where talking about a progressed shift (remember the flower that opens up?)
not a one day doom that will change everything we know.
it's like the change in conciseness, 10 years ago i read books on the matter of ego, free will, the power of now, stilling the mind, energy feeling and so on.
I couldn't really understand what i read but i felt a certain truth in it.
today, i can understand (know in the biblical sense) some of those things and as i progress i experience them more and more.
if the change will be too drastic alot of people will not be able to cope with it. that is why spiritual practice is so important.
we need to know ourselves (or at least to know that most of the time we are not ourselves) in order to be ready to awake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raulduke
Free will, I suppose, is a subjective term. You can educate yourself to the best of your abilty in order to make a decision.

I agree completely.
i meant that most of the time we don't have the capacity to have free will.
our mind is full of old paradigms and blockages and our ego self is controlling us.
Most of the people are unaware that they are in the jail of the mind and desires, therefor without a true free will.

I do feel that we are on the same page and i enjoyed elaborating this with you.
i also thank you for improving my English skills (what would i do without the right mouse button dictionary...)

peace and love
Nivosh

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 07:08 PM

Hello Providence.

We have invested animal bodies. We are extremely susceptible to the dense energies that this kind of body regulate. Civilization, as it stands on this globe, is created to make use of those energies.

A civilization such as ours is based on a mental architecture that is enforced at the psychological level by the values that the cultural context enforces progressively through familial and public education. Those values are solidified by emotions that account for the values, positive or negative. Emotions are therefore the value of the memory of the race.

Does it make more sense now?

Being deprived of sex and money creates great tensions in a psychological person. Psychology associates itself to the energies that inhabit the psychic territory. So, it associates with the animality of its body that is strong in instincts of survival and reproduction, and those instincts tell the psychological entity that it must subdue its environment to survive, in other words that he must dominate, or be dominated.

If the basis for psychology are taken away, and in this case we are talking about the means by which psychology has been trained to react, the power lines that are sex and money, and that there has not been a solid base made ready to replace the illusory psychological persona, the individual is lost.

He is lost because psychology fundamentally powerless on its own. It is not centered on reality, it is in periphery of it. It counts on the memory of his civilization to provide him with the means to survive, psychologically.

There is a sort of internal strength required to support the bringing down of the basis for security that represents a civilization to which psychology identifies. A true identity does not identify to anything else than itself. This is what I mean by being centred. If an individual identifies to his civilization and that this civilization is destroyed, he is left with nothing unless this particular inner strength makes him realize on the spot that he is, outside of the memory of the race, he endures.

It is because man has so little internal strength that he remains stuck with a civilization that is inadequate. And, if he feels it is adequate, it is because he still needs it. And he will always seek to keep it going in time. Because the mental architecture afforded through the values of his race are meant to perpetuate the race, not to make him free.

Does this work?

weareone · 10-11-2008, 07:35 PM

ok, the first zeitgeist was good, the second was either misinformed or misguided, i feel this is either the powers that be or a genuine error. Anyways you should watch 'the esoteric agenda' on google video its must better, balanced and logical

Reveling John · 10-11-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard T

We have invested animal bodies. We are extremely susceptible to the dense energies that this kind of body regulate. Civilization, as it stands on this globe, is created to make use of those energies.

This is quite an insight, Richard. Thank you.

Quote:

...
If the basis for psychology are taken away, and in this case we are talking about the means by which psychology has been trained to react, the power lines that are sex and money, and that there has not been a solid base made ready to replace the illusory psychological persona, the individual is lost.

He is lost because psychology fundamentally powerless on its own. It is not centered on reality, it is in periphery of it. It counts on the memory of his civilization to provide him with the means to survive, psychologically.

The great thing about this economic crisis is that it provides demonstrable PROOF that people's identities are completely wrapped up in social inventions (money, security, predictability). I have heard even newscasters report that this entire calamity is being driven by fear, because the things that people have thought were *real* and *trustworthy* are being unmasked for what they are: psychological constructs compelled into being through the focus of the mass zeitgeist.

Now look what happens when money looses power because people cease to give power to money: the people are at a loss as to comprehend who they are and what they are doing. We clothe ourselves in the artifacts of society. We cover our feelings with ideas and use those ideas to describe one another.

I am not an idea. You are not an idea.

We see our selves as snapshots of the eternal process of emergence. But we are NOT snapshots.

WE ARE THE PROCESS.

When you play two musical tones simultaneously, there is a harmony that comes into existence, essentially this harmony is a new musical component, not describable in either of the tones; it is the other.

We are instances of the harmony between notes and we are also the space between each of those instances, a kind of hyper-harmony. All of the notes are part of our existence, but there is no one note or combination of notes that can describe what we are. We are the experience that exist between the nodes of the network. And we are the dynamic process of growth that is consistently and progressively increasing in sophistication as groups of interconnected nodes graduate into representations of nodes themselves, profoundly re-imagining the structure of the previous network.

If, in your life, you find that everything is falling apart, then you can rest assured that you are doing what you need to do. You are letting the false mirror shatter into a million pieces, revealing that in the *space* between the pieces, the unrecognised, unnamed abyss, there is the potential for true reflection; True Self-Awareness.

raulduke · 10-11-2008, 09:16 PM

nivosh,
I would like to thank you for this converation. It has been enlightening.
Please allow me to share what I have learned.

We are unique individuals here, and we have more similarities than differences.
We all dream of the day when our differences are demolished and we can truly begin to evolve.

For now, as I see it, our differences are as follows:

People like my new friend nivosh (hope I'm not being presumptuous), are concerened primarily w/ LOVE. That is a very good thing. The best thing. These people are so very important to what's going on here (earth). They must be promoted and protected at all costs, because they will help people like me to shed all of our useless indoctrinated preconceptions of what being a human being really means. This though, is only likely to be possible after there has been a paradigm shift.

I truly hope that this something like a peaceful renaissance that David Wilcock and others have been explaining, but my motto is: Hope for the very best for all life, but prepare for the absolute worst.

Now for people like me. I will readily admit that in terms of spiritual education and growth, I am somewhat behind the curve here at Avalon. In my estimate though, I still have time.
For now though I have concerned myself w/ what seems to be the more pressing issue: the plans the PTB have in store for the likes of rogues like us and the rest of humanity for that matter.
Some here believe that fear is the opposite of love. I don't believe that to be be the case. Fear can inspire the opposite of love (selfishness/hate) when it goes unchecked. Fear is a human reaction that can benefit us if we can identify the exact source and react w/ understanding.
Unfortunately it is true that fear has been manipulated by the PTB to paralyze us throughout history.
The fear they use is baseless and crafted for specific purposes. It is, as our friendly nieghborhood Thunderbird puts it: F.alse E.vidence A.ppearing R.eal.
If thouroughly researched though we can hone in on the real source of beneficial fear which, as I see it is:

The PTB know that this paradigm shift is a reality and that, while they control the show now, they are losing control. The playing field, so to to speak, will soon be leveled. This is the source of thier fear and I am screaming this to all who will listen: They want to hi-jack the paradigm shift by creating chaos and further dividing/enslaving us.
The price of freedom (right now) is eternal vigilance.

I am so grateful that this forum exists.
This is not the first time here, that I have become very fond of someone that initially, I thought I was at odds with.

peace.

milk and honey · 10-11-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaKaR

And again, what are they complaining about? What are they afraid of?
Is rationally choosing and getting ready for a Sound Spiritual Growth a Dangerous Path?
Isn't gathering and critically examining information( both intuitively and by way of contre-checking); building Sound Communities upon shared views and values and drawing plans in order to move forward, upon Rationality, Faisability and Harmony with Nature and Mother earth the True Essence of Project Avalon?
Isn't Project Avalon about making Fundamental Choice; heartfully embracing what one intuitively feels as an Expression of the New times; accepting the New Paradigm, getting ready for the Shift of Consciousness; care for one another?
Is 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' not about all that?
Just wondering, really.

Maybe 'Zeitgeist: Addendem' is not all about that ^^^ .

As i said before elsewhere here....

Just like the false promises of Hitlers fascists, the Marxist-Lenninist Russians and Chinese communists -- to name just a few -- the schemers always appeal to the dreamers' highest aspirations for a just society. They play the idealists like fiddles because it is they, as unwitting intruments of the schemers, who will pour out their guiless souls to the masses with emotional pleas for wholesale destruction of the old and unmitigated acceptance of the new.

Without a suspicious bone in their bodies (except of the old order) they fail to see or acknowledge even the possibility that we're being set up again in exactly the same way as our grandfathers (and theirs) were in the past. The same empty utopian promises are being offered again with hardly even a change of mask and again, the same pressures are applied by undiscerning idealists who know everything about their own aspirations for humanity but nothing about the nature of the beast that resides within us all.

With no illusions (because they knew they were flawed themselves) the 'founding fathers' of the United States Constitution assumed upfront that people are deeply flawed, greedy, corrupt and corruptible and that central planning (of everything) can only play into the hands of the beast.

There is no possibility at all that a centralised global government with major economic and political power in it's hands, could deliver justice and good governance to the world's people. But there is every reason to suspect that those who are trying to construct one (those who've built the old order by wresting the US Constitution from our gullible hands) are doing everything in their power to misrepresent themselves in our midst in exactly the same way as the fascists and communists did in the 20th century to kick start their own phony people's revolutions.

Once again they will tell us everything we want to hear. They will perfectly describe to us the problem AS WE SEE IT while pretending to be interested in the changes WE want. As always they are "opposing" themselves in order to control the wave of contempt which is building in the mass consciousness and yes, even the wave of hope that is building in the hearts of those breaking free of it. Control of this wave -- by "complete spectrum dominance" as they call it in 'propaganda colleges' -- equals control of the outcome.

If we simply allow the power elite to impersonate ourselves and to dictate the tone and the perameters of the discussion, they'll make mince meat out of us... again. The psychopathic controllers have their sleeves rolled up. They're right in the thick of the alternative media with their smooth, understanding voices. Sometimes they're shrill in their feigned empathy with us. So we need to develop the discernment to read what's behind every concerned smile, every outstreched hand, every overture of understanding for the fix we're in.

If we succeed in this we are through to a future brighter than ever before. If we fail it will not be for the want of communications technology, communication skills and voices in the wilderness urging caution for the wolves in sheeps clothing who, be sure, are preparing a banquet. And we are not invited......as the guests that is.

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveling John

WE ARE THE PROCESS.

I concur to this.

We are the process. And the process creates impressions. And psychology clings to the impression as a reflection of his reality. But it is just a glimpse, like you said: a snapshot.
But if the individual thinks of himself as a snapshot to which he identifies, he effectively becomes that snapshot.

Well said Reveling John.

We must also realize that the civilization also is a process. A process meant to support a collective of processes and give this collective a specific controlled environment for a specific means, namely the agenda behind a phase of the process. When the phase is over, it goes on to the next phase. But it remains a process.

Working from a snapshot psychology, the masses evaluate their reality from a snapshot taken within a particular phase of a process, not even in relation with the whole process. And the real identity is the sum of the whole process. Which cannot fit within a snapshot.

The system will collapse but neither will it collapse in the time of the ego nor in relation with an idea projected from a snapshot taken from within a phase soon to be caduc.

The personal process as a whole is extremely intelligent. But the snapshot thinks he is the whole. Then he believes he has a choice.

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weareone

ok, the first zeitgeist was good, the second was either misinformed or misguided, i feel this is either the powers that be or a genuine error. Anyways you should watch 'the esoteric agenda' on google video its must better, balanced and logical

The only problem, if we can say it is a problem, that I see with it, is that it is ahead of its time and will prompt people to do moves that will put them in initiation.

So, in a sense, it is preparing the way by giving a small glimpse at what could be.

But it won't change because people wish it to change. It won't change because people have no will yet. And there is a certain dose of pain required for people to develop will.

In the mean time, they are wishful. And they believe that by thinking, they can change the world. Yet, they don't know what thinking is.

An evolved planet has no need for money.

The simple reason being that each individual within an evolved society is a pillar in itself.

Here, on this planet, we have the edifice of civilization and a bunch of people seeking shelter under its roof. All they find for an answer is wishful thinking. And only those who are artful at the use of the energy of evil, the energy behind will, the polarity to intelligence, get their way.

At one point, people will have to integrate will to intelligence and become a pillar of their own. Then, civilization will change.

RaKaR · 10-11-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milk and honey

Maybe 'Zeitgeist: Addendem' is not all about that ^^^ .

As i said before elsewhere here....

Just like the false promises of Hitlers fascists, the Marxist-Lenninist Russians and Chinese communists -- to name just a few -- the schemers always appeal to the dreamers' highest aspirations for a just society. They play the idealists like fiddles because it is they, as unwitting intruments of the schemers, who will pour out their guiless souls to the masses with emotional pleas for wholesale destruction of the old and unmitigated acceptance of the new.

Without a suspicious bone in their bodies (except of the old order) they fail to see or acknowledge even the possibility that we're being set up again in exactly the same way as our grandfathers (and theirs) were in the past. The same empty utopian promises are being offered again with hardly even a change of mask and again, the same pressures are applied by undiscerning idealists who know everything about their own aspirations for humanity but nothing about the nature of the beast that resides within us all.

With no illusions (because they knew they were flawed themselves) the 'founding fathers' of the United States Constitution assumed upfront that people are deeply flawed, greedy, corrupt and corruptible and that central planning (of everything) can only play into the hands of the beast.

There is no possibility at all that a centralised global government with major economic and political power in it's hands, could deliver justice and good governance to the world's people. But there is every reason to suspect that those who are trying to construct one (those who've built the old order by wresting the US Constitution from our gullible hands) are doing everything in their power to misrepresent themselves in our midst in exactly the same way as the fascists and communists did in the 20th century to kick start their own phony people's revolutions.

Once again they will tell us everything we want to hear. They will perfectly describe to us the problem AS WE SEE IT while pretending to be interested in the changes WE want. As always they are "opposing" themselves in order to control the wave of contempt which is building in the mass consciousness and yes, even the wave of hope that is building in the hearts of those breaking free of it. Control of this wave -- by "complete spectrum dominance" as they call it in 'propaganda colleges' -- equals control of the outcome.

If we simply allow the power elite to impersonate ourselves and to dictate the tone and the perameters of the discussion, they'll make mince meat out of us... again. The psychopathic controllers have their sleeves rolled up. They're right in the thick of the alternative media with their smooth, understanding voices. Sometimes they're shrill in their feigned empathy with us. So we need to develop the discernment to read what's behind every concerned smile, every outstreched hand, every overture of understanding for the fix we're in.

If we succeed in this we are through to a future brighter than ever before. If we fail it will not be for the want of communications technology, communication skills and voices in the wilderness urging caution for the wolves in sheeps clothing who, be sure, are preparing a banquet. And we are not invited......as the guests that is.

Thanks for your perspective, Member milk and honey.
Hitlers fascists, the Marxist-Leninist Russians and Chinese Communists, as you put it, did indeed promised happiness and a just society to Mankind.
However, i would not 'name just a few' and would add, so did and still do the Free-market Capitalists.
I think that the conlusion to draw here is that all those systems have failed for one or another reason; one earlier than the other and incidentally it is the Free-market Ideology that is NOW onder discussion.

Discernment and wisdom are a great weapon in those troubled but Spiritually highly charged times.

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 10:51 PM

It is always the same problem.

Why are people afraid of being lied to? Because they are influenceable.

The future evolution will see the raising of pillars. These pillars will be individuals, not collective animals. And it is on those pillars that the new civilization will be based. It will not be a civilization created to direct the destiny of individuals dumbed down into a mass.

If people are afraid to be screwed, it is because it is possible to screw them, therefore, they will be screwed.

And they will be screwed because they still are capable of believing. A pillar cannot believe. He could not even if he tried. So, he has no problem allowing anyone say anything, because he cannot be threatened by words. Because he gives no psychological values to words. Because he does not implicate himself psychologically in the experience.

That is why I say that it is not time yet. Much must happen first.

Man has too much to lose, psychologically.

So, he will project forms that are in conformity to his desires that in turn are based on the conditioning of his civilization, and he calls that free will. And his desires are in opposition to his reality. So, the shock will be great, because opposition means that quite litterally, in other words his reality moves in a direction that is totally opposite to the wishes of the ego.

This gives the ego a false impression of choice. Finally all choices he likes to contemplate are always escape routes to what his own real self needs. These choices are not from him, they are part of his conditioning.

There are no choices in reality. Reality does not care about wishes. And when reality hits, when there is no choice left, then and only then does the ego do what he is supposed to do and that he postponed until the crisis.

So, the crisis is saint and holy. Because without the crisis there is no movement from a psychology enamored with the positive values of his memory.

When the crisis hits, it is reality that hits. And then the ego has no choice.
If he can support the energy charge of reality, he moves. He does not chooses to move, he moves. If he can't support the energy of reality, as it unfolds in the crisis, he breaks down.

And in a time of crisis that encompasses the whole of humanity, the one who breaks down cannot expect the one who moves to stop and pick him up. Because he has no choice but to move.

People have a hard time enduring the little stress of their personal lives. What will they do when it is the Earth itself that shakes under their feet?

People must start creating force fields around their mental centre to not be affected psychologically by worlds events and keep a clear mind when faced with the crisis. This is what people must do. When the crisis hits, if they have the internal strength, they will move and do what they are supposed to do. If not, they will follow whatever flow of panic or others' movements that will happen around them. They will not lead their destiny, they will still seek choices.

Free will is the illusion of those choices that are given him as tests of his intelligence to eventually bring him to develop will in the evil of the crisis, in the strong opposition of life against is search for peace.

To be free is to be in perfect accord with one's own energy movement. It is not a question of choices, it is a question of being real. Choices are red herrings. In the end, there is one thing to do. Not what the ego wants to do but what he must do.

And all this question of free will has always kept him away from what he must do, keeping him into such a slow evolutionary pace that he was forced to stick with a life condition that is equivalent to universal hell and still believe that this is normal.

The ego can rationalize ad infinitum.

Everything is known. And if everything is known, it is clear that there is no choice.

unloadedgunn · 10-11-2008, 11:00 PM

I like your observations, Richard T. You hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. The huge paradigm shift is so overwhelming that people are fighting it. There is no doubt any longer in anyones' mind (I hope) that the current "system" is broken, and that it must change totally in order for anything like peace, prosperity, and equality to be more than just empty words or distant memories. To give you an idea of most peoples' comfort level a thread in which a person asked effectively; "What am I holding in my hand? Try to guess." receives 5 pages of replies/guesses. I typed a serious post announcing a meeting in real time...yes this means face to face folks! Guess how many people are willing to more than cyber-babble about the coming times ahead? Last count, zero. Betcha can't guess what I'm thinking right now?!?

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 11:07 PM

The karma of the planet must be done with.

unloadedgunn · 10-11-2008, 11:23 PM

I agree Richard. WE, meaning humanity in general might have a lot to atone for. This is why all this "airy fairy" stuff about positive intention winning the day is a gross oversimplification. Be positive AND realize you had better start storing food, creating community, bartering, building root cellars, familiarizing yourself with firearms, etc. Show me one peaceful passive protest which ever elicited lasting substantial gains for mankind, and I will show you another media fabrication.

Ashatav · 10-11-2008, 11:27 PM

Touching the economic system...

The rorum novarum enciclic (that's it's name on english?) says that the Need is the indicator of what you must have. If any have needs of your car, can have it, and that's obiously is screwed up.

In southafrica if you go to vacation and when you return to your house you house are occupied you Cannot kick the occupant out.

That's because that the source of the NWO thing is actually the Vatican.

The illuminati are a group started by Ignatius as part of the couterreform to take over the political power using several conductual psicological technics.

In the economic side they started by they Rothchilds (the vativan bankers) the soviet union and communism.

I don't remember if they have something to do with capitalism But the ideology of them are.

Tesis
Antisesis
=
Syntesis

And that's what they want to do with this 2 opossite economical systems.

As a Syntesis, a middle one who is based on the idea of need.

Search on this!

Cheers!

Richard T · 10-11-2008, 11:34 PM

Just try and imagine the karma against woman, the karma against children, the karma against animals, the karma against the races, the karma against the weak, the karma against domination, the karma against lies and manipulations, the karma against the planet.

All these are imprints upon which life plans are built to adjust those energies over time within the fabric of the soul. But now, we are at the end of a cycle, and another cycle, totally different in its purpose must be started.

This means that all the material that is used to support a form of life plan, at the personal as well as the collective level by extension, has to be cleared first. Otherwise, you would just have another version of the same thing.

So, the karma of humanity must be burned. And that does not get done with fluff.

tandiwe · 10-12-2008, 12:34 AM

Yeah you know Alex Jones normally winds me up bcause he is SO confrontational, his is SO emotional inhis verbiage. BUT he has got some very good points!!!!

Fuglybugger · 10-12-2008, 12:35 AM

I did like the ZG addendum. I am inspired to share this one more than most other stuff. It brought some sort of meaning to my search, though I'm just a human being... helping me to become.

There are other places to become human though.. some at the woodpile, just by stacking wood. I prefer fishing though, with a cigar and a flask.

I think I'm on to more relaxing stuff after having stocked my pantry and woodpile, taking out money from the bank and making my parents tiss their pantries. At least they too have a plenty of flour though.

Much good stuff here in this thread and elsewhere...

I know that our present "reality" won't work (thank you ZG addendum folks). Been taught that stuff since 5th grade. Most know it. Not much longer before the stuff hits the fan? My generation knows it. Period. Given.

What they don't know is that we deserve better as beings. Get it. Somebody has to get it out. Thank you Project Avalon and others like David Wilcock for that. Should I continue to help get it out is the question for me.

(Thanks Henry D, I followed your breadcrumbs.)

I say Flush it. Flush the ties with the banksters and kiss my hairy ***... with as much compassion as possible. Take what I have in my 401k as a gift for my freedom. That is (what I sense) what's going on whether I like it or not. I choose to embrace it. I could resist it. It is our/your/my choice.

I recognize which way the river flows. I fish with my bait going downstream. I know how to catch fish. I embrace the flow. I know.

Either our Senators are really smart, or they are really, really stupid. Maybe they are allowing the stream to take it's course by storm.
We all knew it. Just never thought it would come through fake voting machines.

I allow the enema flush along with it's control and it's trappings... rather than try to trap as much as I can while it happens. The ongoing flush allows me to create anew with clarity. Otherwise I'd spend my time contemplating and spying on the trappings (corn, gum weenies, swallowed marbles, etc.).

I prepare for the transition... and realize that I'll (we'll) be better for it after all. My philosophy is to take care, and take care of my neighbor. I'll soon be clean, helping others get along with what I've stored for them and my family. We all live in this yellow submarine, you know.

I am. You are. We can.

With purpose... with intention.

It's all good. Better even.

It's just a ride. I remember that. I am not afraid.

My ride ends with me in charge of me. You with you. With compassion. We'll all be celebrating.

I'll pop the first cork if I'm the one with the first bottle standing. Celebrating all of us. Thank you for being part of me too.

Cheers.

Back to the woodpile and a bit of fishing.

8080028 · 10-12-2008, 12:48 AM

hi all just reading your comments on this film with interest.
If I may add my two cents worth.
I think Addendum as with all the other info we are all trawling through has its good and bad points, of course. Nobody out making these info pieces is EVER going to make a piece that everyone agrees with, that nails the issues exactly correctly and offers a solution perfect in presentation and possibility of success.
Its impossible. The issues are too many and too complex.

The problem we are discussing on Avalon and elsewhere is no less than the complete remake of our society. Not because it wouldn't be a bad idea and might be nice, but because it will have to change, its changing already, and it will change with or without our input. We have to get to grips with a system that is irreparably broken and try to point it in a better direction.

Jaques Fresco says in the film that his way isn't perfect, its just a lot better.
Exactly.

I forwarded the link to this film to everyone I know for two main reasons. Firstly because it exposes the banking fraud. As a start point for the uninitiated this is a very good one, especially as the proof of it is all over the news and they can see that although it sounds bizarre that the whole world could be taken for a ride by the bankers, its true. And it affects them, so they get interested. I've put people onto films like The Money Masters and Money as debt before but this one seems to be having more success.
Secondly, at the end it offers valuable solutions in terms as plain as can be.
Expose the fraud, boycott the banks who are doing this and don't join the military.

I don't believe this is a PTB disinfo piece because they give this advice. No matter what plans the PTB have, the monetary system is the means of control, and exposing this and moving to stop it functioning can only be good for us and bad for them.

The ideas and vision of the Venus project are just that, Ideas and Visions. They are not finished products, only attempts to offer an alternative. I personally don't like the look of their buildings, they lack taste. So should I go off on a diatribe about how they want to make us all live in Future-commie housing blocks and take away our free will? No.
They are showing that all is not doom and gloom, that there are other ways to do this living-on-planet-Earth thing.

A total switch from our current setup to a money-less resource based economy would be very difficult and I don't know if it would even work. Surely we would need some money to operate. But the current system where profit is the biggest objective has quite obviously been wrong and must be changed.

The concept of abundance and the mechanisation of any work that can be mechanised is very attractive, and if people had the increased leisure time this would provide to further their pursuits and all the aspects of human existence that enrich us creatively, artistically, intellectually and spiritually how could that possibly be bad? At the very least its 'just a lot better'.

All work can never be mechanised, humans are needed to do many things. And lots of people do enjoy their work, of course they do. Its this left/right paradigm thing cropping up yet again. its either one thing or the other. people work or they dont, machines do it. Its not that simple.
The problem with working and the attraction with 'doing away with work', is not the 'doing away with work' at all. Its doing away with HAVING to work.
having to pay the bills, and make ends meet, and work 40 hours, and hire child minders, and work night shifts, and get two weeks holidays a year.

Thats the point. We are slaves, and we should not be.

I have a conversation nearly every day with my friends at work talking about what we could do and invent and explore and perfect if only we had the free time.

If humanity had the free time to follow their interests, while at the same time the major problems of our societies in the areas of crime and anti social behaviour were to start to be a thing of the past because the poverty that drives most of them is fixed, then imagine what would happen?

For me that is the point of this film. People nowadays have a deficit of hope and don't see a way out and this film offers a suggestion, not a manifesto.

Also a point worth noting is that it came out at just about the peak of the doom and gloom on this forum over Oct 7th.

I'm not saying the doom and gloom is unjustified, its not, but personally addendum cheered me up a bit and was therefore gold.

nivosh · 10-12-2008, 05:24 AM

This thread has SO many great people in it i want to hug you all!!!

Raulduke, i consider you as my friend too, as well as all of you.

one thing that cought my eye:

Quote:

quote from 'unloadedgunn':
Show me one peaceful passive protest which ever elicited lasting substantial gains for mankind, and I will show you another media fabrication.

what about Gandhi?

Richard T. man, you are amazing!
very clear presentation of difficult stuff!
Thank you all!

I have hope,
I am love,
I believe,
We are one.

nivosh · 10-12-2008, 05:36 AM

On that note, and maybe on a different thread.

can somebody (Richard T maybe?) please make a list of some of the best eye opening movies that can be seen through the Internet?

movies that show the true agenda, the true banking system etc'...

thank you.

peacelovinman · 10-12-2008, 07:07 AM

Just a short note to say thank you to everybody for the debate, thoughts and comments. Just for the record, when I posted this entitled "for the sake of balance", I am not implying that I thought the arguement was balanced, I meant it to serve as an example of an alternative view to The Venus Project.

This film excited me and gave me hope. Personally, a technocratic society is not the way I would want to go. Machines are still fictional creations and I cannot picture myself living in an ocean city, growing my food using hydoponics. I am also sceptical of any "solution" that seems to imply that the world is overpopulated (as Fresco's writings seem to). This is a myth as can be clearly shown by simple maths.

The idea that gives me the most hope is proposed by Vladimir Megre in the "Ringing Cedars" series of books (www.ringingcedars.com). To those that have read my posts before, you will know I mention this guy a lot; the reason is that I'm passionate about the idea, so please forgive me?

10-11-2008, 03:43 PM	#26
Steve_G Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) This thread is one of the most impressive I've seen here for a long time. I haven't formed an opinion on it yet (I want to watch the movie again before I say anything) but the points raised by both 'sides' are very, very good. Kudos to all involved.

10-11-2008, 04:26 PM	#27
stefaan Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Heaven Posts: 186	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) The best post here (so far), IMO, is the one by Reveling John. He dares to question... Well, let's say... I am always so stunned to see how deep to the bone most americans are indoctrinated... for instance with the idea that nothing is good except capitalism... when they talk about socialism, communism and anything resembling, it's as if they are talking about the devil, no worse... full of hate. During and after 9-11, our journalists looked up, as much americans as possible, who were visiting europe, or were working here, just to get their view, their opinion, their feelings on what had happened... A remark a lot of them made during the interviews, was "you're so well informed here". With this they meant, our media are not so one-sided as in the US. Our media was looking at things from different angles. We would get more information than they would in the US, etc. This "one-sidedness" harms the american people. (And I am sad to say, but europe moves in the same direction.) Internet could break it open, give american more possibilities, more views, more angles. If only they would be prepared to put down their colored spectacles and really see what's out there. Whatever... We all, americans, european, asians... we all will have to change our ways. None of us is right. If you look at the results, you have to see that. And I hope ASAP. If we are living in some Endtime period, we will have made this end ourselves. If you agree or don't agree with Zeitgeist I & II ... it doesn't matter. If only it could make you think, make you wiser in some way... Last edited by stefaan; 10-11-2008 at 04:32 PM.

10-11-2008, 05:02 PM	#28
Zira Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Controlled opposition.Throw out some good information and then promote the totalitarian technocratic society.Naomi Wolf and Glenn Beck are talking about these things in the mainstream and any child knows they are gatekeepers.

10-11-2008, 05:22 PM	#29
sunnyrap Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 147	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) This is an interesting thread worth the debate, imo. I just watched Alex Jone's response to Addendum. He made some good points, but a good bit of what he said comes from his well established distrust of almost anyone offering any kind of new solution-system--and validly so. Alex is predisposed to do this because he's created a strong position for himself doing it. But I felt like this distrust/skepticism is a double edged sword, and he could be throwing out the baby with the bath water with Addendum. I felt that the core concept behind Addendum is valid: service to all over money-power. Translating that correctly is going to be the job, and involve all. Watchdogging decisions running the technology will be very involving. (Isaac Asimov's future visions come to mind). Any system/solution does not work if there is no intentionality of service to all behind it; and all 'systems' followed blindly will fail a good bit of the time when not supported/checked by personal responsibility. Even staying with the founding father's system had holes in it, because lack of individual responsibility and blind faith in the American system allowed some clever bandits to use our trust in it to hijack it. Alex seems to want to stay with the original system, minus the elements of The Federal Reserve. But the information on how banking and profit structures work that has been disseminated lately, once everyone is exposed to them and understands it, seems to me to make returning to the profit/free enterprise system almost impossible. Because, according to what I've seen anyway, it ALWAYS leads to inflation and separation of people into haves and have-nots. His point about Capitalism and Communism being two sides of the same coin is valid also. Communism doesn't really work because someone has to assume control, just like in capitalism. Still the pyramid structure. It looks to me that we almost need to be freed of the NEED for interdependance for survival, so that we can just join up for the pleasure and stimulation of working on projects together. If there is no survival need to do so, then you are never enslaved. People who enjoy work and accomplishment will still have plenty to do. People who don't needn't get in the way of people who do out of necessity. If plenty can be created for all--no one's coming after someone else's house or stuff... They'll be ignored as uninteresting human beings if they do nothing and don't contribute, so they will quickly find some place to plug in. We are social beings, after all. Therefore, I don't think Alex vision of people sitting around doing nothing because they don't have to work--therefore being subject to sociopathic behavior is valid, either. It's only valid in the current paradigm. If you and your fellows have the resources to be out there joyously creating things of interest to them, and doing whatever you wish is freely available, the array of entertainments we now have will pall very quickly for all but the most immature people, and a desire for new, more exciting frontiers will call, or the intrinsic social instinct will inspire joining some group trying to create something. I also didn't like Alex' across the board panning of religion. The ancient roots of religion were a training system for teaching universal spiritual concepts and the values--something we must have to advance as a species. How far this training needs to be taken is for better minds than my own. But like any other system unquestioningly followed, it allowed the unscrupulous to take advantage of it. I optimistically believe there will be a point where there is enough spiritual learning absorbed by a critical mass of people that worry about spiritually deformed people doing mischief will evaporate. There is a Zen aphorism that 'ethics is the best survival'. That's been absolutely reliable in my experience. Unethical behavior eventually leads to the extinction of those who refuse to give it up.

10-11-2008, 07:08 PM	#31
Richard T Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 179	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Hello Providence. We have invested animal bodies. We are extremely susceptible to the dense energies that this kind of body regulate. Civilization, as it stands on this globe, is created to make use of those energies. A civilization such as ours is based on a mental architecture that is enforced at the psychological level by the values that the cultural context enforces progressively through familial and public education. Those values are solidified by emotions that account for the values, positive or negative. Emotions are therefore the value of the memory of the race. Does it make more sense now? Being deprived of sex and money creates great tensions in a psychological person. Psychology associates itself to the energies that inhabit the psychic territory. So, it associates with the animality of its body that is strong in instincts of survival and reproduction, and those instincts tell the psychological entity that it must subdue its environment to survive, in other words that he must dominate, or be dominated. If the basis for psychology are taken away, and in this case we are talking about the means by which psychology has been trained to react, the power lines that are sex and money, and that there has not been a solid base made ready to replace the illusory psychological persona, the individual is lost. He is lost because psychology fundamentally powerless on its own. It is not centered on reality, it is in periphery of it. It counts on the memory of his civilization to provide him with the means to survive, psychologically. There is a sort of internal strength required to support the bringing down of the basis for security that represents a civilization to which psychology identifies. A true identity does not identify to anything else than itself. This is what I mean by being centred. If an individual identifies to his civilization and that this civilization is destroyed, he is left with nothing unless this particular inner strength makes him realize on the spot that he is, outside of the memory of the race, he endures. It is because man has so little internal strength that he remains stuck with a civilization that is inadequate. And, if he feels it is adequate, it is because he still needs it. And he will always seek to keep it going in time. Because the mental architecture afforded through the values of his race are meant to perpetuate the race, not to make him free. Does this work?

10-11-2008, 07:35 PM	#32
weareone Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: uk Posts: 54	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) ok, the first zeitgeist was good, the second was either misinformed or misguided, i feel this is either the powers that be or a genuine error. Anyways you should watch 'the esoteric agenda' on google video its must better, balanced and logical

10-11-2008, 09:16 PM	#34
raulduke Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: USA Posts: 454	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) nivosh, I would like to thank you for this converation. It has been enlightening. Please allow me to share what I have learned. We are unique individuals here, and we have more similarities than differences. We all dream of the day when our differences are demolished and we can truly begin to evolve. For now, as I see it, our differences are as follows: People like my new friend nivosh (hope I'm not being presumptuous), are concerened primarily w/ LOVE. That is a very good thing. The best thing. These people are so very important to what's going on here (earth). They must be promoted and protected at all costs, because they will help people like me to shed all of our useless indoctrinated preconceptions of what being a human being really means. This though, is only likely to be possible after there has been a paradigm shift. I truly hope that this something like a peaceful renaissance that David Wilcock and others have been explaining, but my motto is: Hope for the very best for all life, but prepare for the absolute worst. Now for people like me. I will readily admit that in terms of spiritual education and growth, I am somewhat behind the curve here at Avalon. In my estimate though, I still have time. For now though I have concerned myself w/ what seems to be the more pressing issue: the plans the PTB have in store for the likes of rogues like us and the rest of humanity for that matter. Some here believe that fear is the opposite of love. I don't believe that to be be the case. Fear can inspire the opposite of love (selfishness/hate) when it goes unchecked. Fear is a human reaction that can benefit us if we can identify the exact source and react w/ understanding. Unfortunately it is true that fear has been manipulated by the PTB to paralyze us throughout history. The fear they use is baseless and crafted for specific purposes. It is, as our friendly nieghborhood Thunderbird puts it: F.alse E.vidence A.ppearing R.eal. If thouroughly researched though we can hone in on the real source of beneficial fear which, as I see it is: The PTB know that this paradigm shift is a reality and that, while they control the show now, they are losing control. The playing field, so to to speak, will soon be leveled. This is the source of thier fear and I am screaming this to all who will listen: They want to hi-jack the paradigm shift by creating chaos and further dividing/enslaving us. The price of freedom (right now) is eternal vigilance. I am so grateful that this forum exists. This is not the first time here, that I have become very fond of someone that initially, I thought I was at odds with. peace.

10-11-2008, 10:51 PM	#39
Richard T Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 179	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) It is always the same problem. Why are people afraid of being lied to? Because they are influenceable. The future evolution will see the raising of pillars. These pillars will be individuals, not collective animals. And it is on those pillars that the new civilization will be based. It will not be a civilization created to direct the destiny of individuals dumbed down into a mass. If people are afraid to be screwed, it is because it is possible to screw them, therefore, they will be screwed. And they will be screwed because they still are capable of believing. A pillar cannot believe. He could not even if he tried. So, he has no problem allowing anyone say anything, because he cannot be threatened by words. Because he gives no psychological values to words. Because he does not implicate himself psychologically in the experience. That is why I say that it is not time yet. Much must happen first. Man has too much to lose, psychologically. So, he will project forms that are in conformity to his desires that in turn are based on the conditioning of his civilization, and he calls that free will. And his desires are in opposition to his reality. So, the shock will be great, because opposition means that quite litterally, in other words his reality moves in a direction that is totally opposite to the wishes of the ego. This gives the ego a false impression of choice. Finally all choices he likes to contemplate are always escape routes to what his own real self needs. These choices are not from him, they are part of his conditioning. There are no choices in reality. Reality does not care about wishes. And when reality hits, when there is no choice left, then and only then does the ego do what he is supposed to do and that he postponed until the crisis. So, the crisis is saint and holy. Because without the crisis there is no movement from a psychology enamored with the positive values of his memory. When the crisis hits, it is reality that hits. And then the ego has no choice. If he can support the energy charge of reality, he moves. He does not chooses to move, he moves. If he can't support the energy of reality, as it unfolds in the crisis, he breaks down. And in a time of crisis that encompasses the whole of humanity, the one who breaks down cannot expect the one who moves to stop and pick him up. Because he has no choice but to move. People have a hard time enduring the little stress of their personal lives. What will they do when it is the Earth itself that shakes under their feet? People must start creating force fields around their mental centre to not be affected psychologically by worlds events and keep a clear mind when faced with the crisis. This is what people must do. When the crisis hits, if they have the internal strength, they will move and do what they are supposed to do. If not, they will follow whatever flow of panic or others' movements that will happen around them. They will not lead their destiny, they will still seek choices. Free will is the illusion of those choices that are given him as tests of his intelligence to eventually bring him to develop will in the evil of the crisis, in the strong opposition of life against is search for peace. To be free is to be in perfect accord with one's own energy movement. It is not a question of choices, it is a question of being real. Choices are red herrings. In the end, there is one thing to do. Not what the ego wants to do but what he must do. And all this question of free will has always kept him away from what he must do, keeping him into such a slow evolutionary pace that he was forced to stick with a life condition that is equivalent to universal hell and still believe that this is normal. The ego can rationalize ad infinitum. Everything is known. And if everything is known, it is clear that there is no choice.

10-11-2008, 11:00 PM	#40
unloadedgunn Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 66	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) I like your observations, Richard T. You hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. The huge paradigm shift is so overwhelming that people are fighting it. There is no doubt any longer in anyones' mind (I hope) that the current "system" is broken, and that it must change totally in order for anything like peace, prosperity, and equality to be more than just empty words or distant memories. To give you an idea of most peoples' comfort level a thread in which a person asked effectively; "What am I holding in my hand? Try to guess." receives 5 pages of replies/guesses. I typed a serious post announcing a meeting in real time...yes this means face to face folks! Guess how many people are willing to more than cyber-babble about the coming times ahead? Last count, zero. Betcha can't guess what I'm thinking right now?!?

10-11-2008, 11:07 PM	#41
Richard T Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 179	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) The karma of the planet must be done with.

10-11-2008, 11:23 PM	#42
unloadedgunn Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 66	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) I agree Richard. WE, meaning humanity in general might have a lot to atone for. This is why all this "airy fairy" stuff about positive intention winning the day is a gross oversimplification. Be positive AND realize you had better start storing food, creating community, bartering, building root cellars, familiarizing yourself with firearms, etc. Show me one peaceful passive protest which ever elicited lasting substantial gains for mankind, and I will show you another media fabrication.

10-11-2008, 11:27 PM	#43
Ashatav Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 603	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Touching the economic system... The rorum novarum enciclic (that's it's name on english?) says that the Need is the indicator of what you must have. If any have needs of your car, can have it, and that's obiously is screwed up. In southafrica if you go to vacation and when you return to your house you house are occupied you Cannot kick the occupant out. That's because that the source of the NWO thing is actually the Vatican. The illuminati are a group started by Ignatius as part of the couterreform to take over the political power using several conductual psicological technics. In the economic side they started by they Rothchilds (the vativan bankers) the soviet union and communism. I don't remember if they have something to do with capitalism But the ideology of them are. Tesis Antisesis = Syntesis And that's what they want to do with this 2 opossite economical systems. As a Syntesis, a middle one who is based on the idea of need. Search on this! Cheers!

10-11-2008, 11:34 PM	#44
Richard T Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 179	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Just try and imagine the karma against woman, the karma against children, the karma against animals, the karma against the races, the karma against the weak, the karma against domination, the karma against lies and manipulations, the karma against the planet. All these are imprints upon which life plans are built to adjust those energies over time within the fabric of the soul. But now, we are at the end of a cycle, and another cycle, totally different in its purpose must be started. This means that all the material that is used to support a form of life plan, at the personal as well as the collective level by extension, has to be cleared first. Otherwise, you would just have another version of the same thing. So, the karma of humanity must be burned. And that does not get done with fluff.

10-12-2008, 12:34 AM	#45
tandiwe Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 47	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Yeah you know Alex Jones normally winds me up bcause he is SO confrontational, his is SO emotional inhis verbiage. BUT he has got some very good points!!!!

10-12-2008, 12:35 AM	#46
Fuglybugger Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 16	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) I did like the ZG addendum. I am inspired to share this one more than most other stuff. It brought some sort of meaning to my search, though I'm just a human being... helping me to become. There are other places to become human though.. some at the woodpile, just by stacking wood. I prefer fishing though, with a cigar and a flask. I think I'm on to more relaxing stuff after having stocked my pantry and woodpile, taking out money from the bank and making my parents tiss their pantries. At least they too have a plenty of flour though. Much good stuff here in this thread and elsewhere... I know that our present "reality" won't work (thank you ZG addendum folks). Been taught that stuff since 5th grade. Most know it. Not much longer before the stuff hits the fan? My generation knows it. Period. Given. What they don't know is that we deserve better as beings. Get it. Somebody has to get it out. Thank you Project Avalon and others like David Wilcock for that. Should I continue to help get it out is the question for me. (Thanks Henry D, I followed your breadcrumbs.) I say Flush it. Flush the ties with the banksters and kiss my hairy **... with as much compassion as possible. Take what I have in my 401k as a gift for my freedom. That is (what I sense) what's going on whether I like it or not. I choose to embrace it. I could resist it. It is our/your/my choice. I recognize which way the river flows. I fish with my bait going downstream. I know how to catch fish. I embrace the flow. I know. Either our Senators are really smart, or they are really, really stupid. Maybe they are allowing the stream to take it's course by storm. We all knew it. Just never thought it would come through fake voting machines. I allow the enema flush along with it's control and it's trappings... rather than try to trap as much as I can while it happens. The ongoing flush allows me to create anew with clarity. Otherwise I'd spend my time contemplating and spying on the trappings (corn, gum weenies, swallowed marbles, etc.). I prepare for the transition... and realize that I'll (we'll) be better for it after all. My philosophy is to take care, and take care of my neighbor. I'll soon be clean, helping others get along with what I've stored for them and my family. We all live in this yellow submarine, you know. I am. You are. We can. With purpose... with intention. It's all good. Better even. It's just a ride. I remember that. I am not afraid. My ride ends with me in charge of me. You with you. With compassion. We'll all be celebrating. I'll pop the first cork if I'm the one with the first bottle standing. Celebrating all of us. Thank you for being part of me too. Cheers. Back to the woodpile and a bit of fishing. Last edited by Fuglybugger; 10-12-2008 at 03:28 AM.*

10-12-2008, 12:48 AM	#47
8080028 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ireland mostly Posts: 44	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) hi all just reading your comments on this film with interest. If I may add my two cents worth. I think Addendum as with all the other info we are all trawling through has its good and bad points, of course. Nobody out making these info pieces is EVER going to make a piece that everyone agrees with, that nails the issues exactly correctly and offers a solution perfect in presentation and possibility of success. Its impossible. The issues are too many and too complex. The problem we are discussing on Avalon and elsewhere is no less than the complete remake of our society. Not because it wouldn't be a bad idea and might be nice, but because it will have to change, its changing already, and it will change with or without our input. We have to get to grips with a system that is irreparably broken and try to point it in a better direction. Jaques Fresco says in the film that his way isn't perfect, its just a lot better. Exactly. I forwarded the link to this film to everyone I know for two main reasons. Firstly because it exposes the banking fraud. As a start point for the uninitiated this is a very good one, especially as the proof of it is all over the news and they can see that although it sounds bizarre that the whole world could be taken for a ride by the bankers, its true. And it affects them, so they get interested. I've put people onto films like The Money Masters and Money as debt before but this one seems to be having more success. Secondly, at the end it offers valuable solutions in terms as plain as can be. Expose the fraud, boycott the banks who are doing this and don't join the military. I don't believe this is a PTB disinfo piece because they give this advice. No matter what plans the PTB have, the monetary system is the means of control, and exposing this and moving to stop it functioning can only be good for us and bad for them. The ideas and vision of the Venus project are just that, Ideas and Visions. They are not finished products, only attempts to offer an alternative. I personally don't like the look of their buildings, they lack taste. So should I go off on a diatribe about how they want to make us all live in Future-commie housing blocks and take away our free will? No. They are showing that all is not doom and gloom, that there are other ways to do this living-on-planet-Earth thing. A total switch from our current setup to a money-less resource based economy would be very difficult and I don't know if it would even work. Surely we would need some money to operate. But the current system where profit is the biggest objective has quite obviously been wrong and must be changed. The concept of abundance and the mechanisation of any work that can be mechanised is very attractive, and if people had the increased leisure time this would provide to further their pursuits and all the aspects of human existence that enrich us creatively, artistically, intellectually and spiritually how could that possibly be bad? At the very least its 'just a lot better'. All work can never be mechanised, humans are needed to do many things. And lots of people do enjoy their work, of course they do. Its this left/right paradigm thing cropping up yet again. its either one thing or the other. people work or they dont, machines do it. Its not that simple. The problem with working and the attraction with 'doing away with work', is not the 'doing away with work' at all. Its doing away with HAVING to work. having to pay the bills, and make ends meet, and work 40 hours, and hire child minders, and work night shifts, and get two weeks holidays a year. Thats the point. We are slaves, and we should not be. I have a conversation nearly every day with my friends at work talking about what we could do and invent and explore and perfect if only we had the free time. If humanity had the free time to follow their interests, while at the same time the major problems of our societies in the areas of crime and anti social behaviour were to start to be a thing of the past because the poverty that drives most of them is fixed, then imagine what would happen? For me that is the point of this film. People nowadays have a deficit of hope and don't see a way out and this film offers a suggestion, not a manifesto. Also a point worth noting is that it came out at just about the peak of the doom and gloom on this forum over Oct 7th. I'm not saying the doom and gloom is unjustified, its not, but personally addendum cheered me up a bit and was therefore gold.

10-12-2008, 05:36 AM	#49
nivosh Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Israel Posts: 65	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) On that note, and maybe on a different thread. can somebody (Richard T maybe?) please make a list of some of the best eye opening movies that can be seen through the Internet? movies that show the true agenda, the true banking system etc'... thank you.

10-12-2008, 07:07 AM	#50
peacelovinman Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 141	Re: Zeitgeist Adddendum - A Critical Analysis (for the sake of balance) Just a short note to say thank you to everybody for the debate, thoughts and comments. Just for the record, when I posted this entitled "for the sake of balance", I am not implying that I thought the arguement was balanced, I meant it to serve as an example of an alternative view to The Venus Project. This film excited me and gave me hope. Personally, a technocratic society is not the way I would want to go. Machines are still fictional creations and I cannot picture myself living in an ocean city, growing my food using hydoponics. I am also sceptical of any "solution" that seems to imply that the world is overpopulated (as Fresco's writings seem to). This is a myth as can be clearly shown by simple maths. The idea that gives me the most hope is proposed by Vladimir Megre in the "Ringing Cedars" series of books (www.ringingcedars.com). To those that have read my posts before, you will know I mention this guy a lot; the reason is that I'm passionate about the idea, so please forgive me?