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Old 03-09-2010, 08:07 PM   #1
Knowwheretorun
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Default Gregg Braden Debunked

Gregg Braden Debunked (1 of 15) INTRO
youtube.com/watch?v=7rkwQgeJcFs
the2012deception.net
Notes for this video:
The 2012 Deception Presentation- (1 of 6)
youtube.com/watch?v=VaVDhOU6jLE
How 2012 "Enlightenment" Will Lead To Genocide (1 of 3)
youtube.com/watch?v=7xtN1qo9yLw


Gregg Braden Debunked (2 of 15) The Schumann Resonances
youtube.com/watch?v=zLGDOVeb5bw
Notes for this video:
quake.geo.berkeley.edu/ncedc/em.intro.html
knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Introduction_to_Geomagnetically_Trapped_Radiation/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17795213
crawford2000.co.uk/sch.htm


Gregg Braden Debunked (3 of 15) Pole Shift
youtube.com/watch?v=7CG62lSLrzk
knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Earth%27s_magnetic_field/
The Earth's magnetic field reverses at intervals, ranging from tens of thousands to hundreds of
thousands of years. It is believed that this last occurred some 600,000 years ago (Comins - DEU p.84).
The overall geomagnetic field is becoming weaker at a rate which will cause the field to disappear by about 4000 AD.1 Other sources have put the date of field collapse as early as 3000 AD.
knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Introduction_to_Geomagnetically_Trapped_Radiation/
scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2009/02/is_the_earths_magnetic_field_a.php
nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7043/full/nature03674.html
bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/43775-pole-shift-idea-origins.html


Gregg Braden Debunked (4 of 15) The Earth Stops Rotating
youtube.com/watch?v=t9Dxu3PkYr8
notes
khouse.org/articles/2003/479/
trustbible.com/planetx.htm
creationism.org/patten/PattenMarsEarthWars/PattenMEW10.htm
creationism.org/patten/PattenMarsEarthWars/PattenMEW08.htm


Gregg Braden Debunked (5 of 15) The Photon Belt
youtube.com/watch?v=zXZqlKbzfwg
notes:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_belt
bibliotecapleyades.net/universo/esp_cinturon_fotones_15.htm
geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/Pleiades.html
etheric.com/LaViolette/Disinformation.html


Gregg Braden Debunked (6 of 15) The Sun's Magnetic Field
youtube.com/watch?v=QQEf89GtDiI
adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1992A&AS...92..221B
science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm
wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ap_index_oct09.png
globalwarmingart.com/images/4/43/Solar_Cycle_Variations.png
science.nasa.gov/ssL/pad/solar/solar-b_brochure.stm


Gregg Braden Debunked (7 of 15) Quantum Physics , Entaglement, Bell's inequality EPR Paradox
youtube.com/watch?v=IFrVGYt-Y1A

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox
physlink.com/Education/askexperts/ae634.cfm
A commonly debated use of the term refers to quantum mechanics, where, if the outcome of an event has not been observed, it exists in a state of 'superposition', which is akin to being in all possible states at once. In the famous thought experiment known as Schrödinger's cat the cat is supposedly neither alive nor dead until observed. However, most quantum physicists, in resolving Schrödinger's seeming paradox, now understand that the acts of 'observation' and 'measurement' must also be defined in quantum terms before the question makes sense.
That is that the reason science must come up with a third possibility namely that the cat is neither alive or dead is because they cant mathematically detailed. And they like to be able to explain things mathematically..


Gregg Braden Debunked (8 of 15) Fraudulent Footnotes
youtube.com/watch?v=nreOOetXZJM
greggbraden.com/resources/technical_references/
twm.co.nz/DNAPhantom.htm.:
skepdic.com/plants.html
greggbraden.com/newsletter/2000.html
energygrid.com/spirit/guide/gregg-braden.html


Gregg Braden Debunked (9 of 15) The Great Red Spot
youtube.com/watch?v=pnS0BBpLBMc
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981AcApS...1...87X
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter#Great_Red_Spot_and_other_storms
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1899MNRAS..59..574D


Gregg Braden Debunked (10 of 15) The Maharishi Effect
youtube.com/watch?v=uewnSF3p-No
youtube.com/watch?v=rlPiXNlhKFo
behind-the-tm-facade.org/Maharishi_Effect-mdefect-uscities-1976.htm
behind-the-tm-facade.org/mdefect-peer2.htm
behind-the-tm-facade.org/maharishi_effect-mdefect-lebanon.htm


Gregg Braden Debunked (11 of 15) The God Code
youtube.com/watch?v=jWoA0v2lyKM
energygrid.com/science/2004/03ap-godcode.html


Gregg Braden Debunked (12 of 15) Messages from Water
youtube.com/watch?v=uyp_4Ttbt6k
youtube.com/watch?v=rlPiXNlhKFo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto


Gregg Braden Debunked (13 of 15) The Global Consciousness Project
youtube.com/watch?v=gxbLPDwNUPQ
skeptiko.com/73-skeptoid-brian-dunning/


Gregg Braden Debunked (14 of 15) The Council of Nicaea
youtube.com/watch?v=ngQMOBY26ck
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
youtube.com/watch?v=mh4OoIseGGs
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4395387373297652024
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3367901243436172139


the council of nicea bible edited proof constantine rome by catholic christinas texts

Gregg Braden Debunked (15 of 15) Jesus and Conclusion
youtube.com/watch?v=SBBdNEx3RJw
dvdtract.com
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:24 PM   #2
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

this thread is silly.. perhaps just not agreeing with a researchers point of veiw will sufice. although you can post anything you like of course.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:32 PM   #3
Aztar
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Hello Chris White

Ya know you can just post part 1 of 15, people here are smart enough to find the rest if they choose to.

to embed video type [youtube]zLGDOVeb5bw[/youtube and Closed with a ]

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Old 03-09-2010, 10:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Silly 1st post, know.where.to.run...

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Old 03-09-2010, 10:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Hi knowwheretorun, it's too bad that your very first post to the forum is so negative. I don't know too much about Greg Braden but until I do I don't feel it necessary to check out your links.

And by the way. welcome to Avalon.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Knowwheretorun, firstly i would like to say hello and welcome

it might be a good idea to introduce yourself and meet the rest of your fellow avalonians before posting a thread showing greg brandon in a contoversal light, just a wee hint!

its a bit like turning up to a party for save the foxes and shouting tallyho!

much light to you
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:51 AM   #7
pilot
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

imo gregg braden is too vanilla to bother with, much less put that much effort into debunking.

anyway, welcome.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by morguana View Post
Knowwheretorun, firstly i would like to say hello and welcome

it might be a good idea to introduce yourself and meet the rest of your fellow avalonians before posting a thread showing greg brandon in a contoversal light, just a wee hint!

its a bit like turning up to a party for save the foxes and shouting tallyho!

much light to you
m x
I love your suggestion..

AS most of you here that read my few postings know I support him... IN FACT he was the first one to make me open my eyes. Then after reading his books my heart was touched. Then.... Well the flood gate was no longer able to be closed and even if you read this and do not agree with my support of his work I can still send out good positive words and thoughts.


Remember that no matter who you are or what you think you know. Life is a gift and you are here for a reason.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:17 AM   #9
Steven
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie1971 View Post
...Remember that no matter who you are or what you think you know. Life is a gift and you are here for a reason.
Indeed. So true. It is ours to discover and I must say Gregg helps a whole lot. I have experience some of what he says. That is what I like about the Universal Laws of consciousness, you can use them and see them at work...

What saddens me is all these thread about consciousness are so unpopular even here . But it is Ok! Gives me more work!

Namaste, Steven
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

hiya chris, how's the beef with michael tsarion going? new fish to fry ol buddy ol pal? keep up the hate if you want to, but what would jesus do , eh? chris white debunked more like if there is a second coming, unlikely as that is.

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Old 03-10-2010, 01:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot View Post
imo gregg braden is too vanilla to bother with, much less put that much effort into debunking.
This was my first thought as well.

It's like 'debunking' Ram Dass or Alan Watts.

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Old 03-10-2010, 01:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie1971 View Post
I love your suggestion..

AS most of you here that read my few postings know I support him... IN FACT he was the first one to make me open my eyes. Then after reading his books my heart was touched. Then.... Well the flood gate was no longer able to be closed and even if you read this and do not agree with my support of his work I can still send out good positive words and thoughts.


Remember that no matter who you are or what you think you know. Life is a gift and you are here for a reason.
Nice one Carrie

I don't care if GB is vanilla coated with fudge, I have a lot of time for him and his work. Perhaps (and I have said this of other people who are pet hates on this site) when we do just a fraction ....a teensy weensy itty bitty fraction, of what these people do, we can open our un-informed traps and start shouting SCAM !
Until then, I will continue to enjoy both his and others, works as they provide love and light in these times.
I debunk debunkers and all I say is, get a life and start to love.

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Old 03-10-2010, 04:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Hi all, Im glad to be here, I was exited to see my approval notification the other day, Im sorry that this comes off as negative, I assure you its done out of love. I really really used to believe Braden's general line myself a few years ago, I also used to think it was because it was scientifically stable.

The reason I hope that some of you watch the presentation is two fold, the first being that you will see that there is no ambiguity in regard to the wrongness of Braden here, its plainly evident, and as I state right at the outset, this is no mere nitpicking, the fundamental points of Braden's main points are unquestionably wrong (see for yourself). I chose to use him as an example because he holds many of the views I used to hold simultaneously, and therefore is a good medium in which to show the problems with many of the ideas at the same time, while also demonstrating why they are so easily believed by us. Its also set up in a way that each part is self contained, so if you see the heading of a particular part that your interested in, say for instance The Schumann Resonances, you can watch just that clip.

The second reason that I think this is important and should be attempted by you to view it as an act of genuine concern by me is because after looking over the root, or first causes of much of these specific ideas I think I stumbled over something that would (if I am right) mean that the NWO or whatever you want to call them, are actively involved in promoting the ideas for a very specific reason, please understand that this does not mean that the people themselves are "agents"..... try to think of it like a professor of economics at a state university, They are usually true believers in the model of economics they are teaching, they have been taught what to think in such a way that makes them think that it was their idea in the first place, so they are not agents per se, but they are basically performing the same function as one, this after considering the ultimate objective, which I would submit may be very different that most of us anticipate.

I try to explain this idea in a few different videos including
How 2012 "Enlightenment" Will Lead To Genocide (1 of 3)

Also in the latter part of this one I state the case much more clearly:
The 2012 Deception Presentation- (1 of 6)

Also to a lesser degree here:
My rant to the truth movement (1 of 3)
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Yes, alot of Greggs work is pseudoscience that he seems to have made up. Especially his book "the god code". On the other hand alot of his science is valid. I don't think he is an NWO agent, because some of his science has some shotty footnotes. I think he had some well researched material and wanted to continue to support himself by making up nonsense. The basic premise of his real research has been supported by native societies all over the planet for thousands of years. It can be found in Taoist, Buddhist, and Hindu philosophy as well among others. It's nothing new.

Chris, Ive seen your work. Your debunking Maxwell video was very well done. I don't agree with your views though, and frankly if you were the only one with the truth you'd be dead and/or replaced. Your not that well known.
We both know Alex Jones is a disinfo agent. Take a look at his views on Christianity and the new age movement. We both know the bible was rewritten and manipulated. Yes there is a move from a faction of the illuminati to say he didn't exist. At the same time there's a move from another faction (british royals) to say he did exist and left a bloodline, so they can come out and say there part of it and be basicly worshipped.

They want to make you feel powerless and scared. By making you become an atheist you are devoid of spirituality and feel powerless. By making you think there is a conspiracy run by one all powerful group where all of the members unanimously agree on all the same agendas and ideas which you have no way to stop except by buying guns and food (or even worse saying there is no way you can stop it because its been prophesied to happen an exact way) you also feel powerless and scared.

There is a massive part of the new age movement (if you want to call it that) that respects and applies biblical teaching to their life. I keep the 23rd psalm in my pocket at all times. I even call upon jesus for protection and guidance and feel I have a closer relationship and respect for him now then ever.

You do have a compassionate drive to help though, and you put in alot of hard work. I really respect you for that.

Thank You

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Old 03-10-2010, 05:29 AM   #15
truthseekerdan
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Newest video interview on CMN with Gregg Braden

Fractal Time

In a much awaited follow up interview with Gregg Braden, Regina discusses his vision of 2012 and the next great cycle from the persepctive of Fractal Time, the title of Gregg's latest book.

As Deepak Chopra says, Gregg Braden is a rare blend of scientist, visionary and scholar with the ability to speak to our minds, while touching the wisdom of our hearts. His ability to look at the grand picture, observe the important scientific facts and synthesis them into an understanding that touches deep within, is one of Gregg's greatest contributions.

Gregg is internationally renowned as a pioneer in bridging science and spirituality. Following a successful career as a Computer Geologist for Phillips Petroleum during the 1970s energy crisis, he became a Senior Computer Systems Designer for Martin Marietta Defense Systems during the last year of the Cold War. In 1991 he was appointed the first Technical Operations Manager for Cisco Systems where he led the development of the global support team that assures the reliability of today’s Internet. For more than 22 years, Gregg has searched high mountain villages, remote monasteries, and forgotten texts to uncover their timeless secrets. To date, his work has led to such paradigm-shattering books as The Isaiah Effect, The God Code, The Divine Matrix and his 2008 release, The Spontaneous Healing of Belief: Shattering the Paradigm of False Limits. Gregg’s work is now published in 17 languages and 27 countries and shows us beyond any reasonable doubt that the key to our future lies in the wisdom of our past.

For more on Gregg Braden, please go to www.greggbraden.com

To go directly to the Fractal Time code calculator, go to www.greggbraden.com/home/fractal-time-calculator

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Old 03-10-2010, 05:35 AM   #16
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Lightbulb Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

What people mostly do not understand is, that the newage movemend is a part of the illuminati program. They are allready aware of what is going come out in the future!!
so they put in there players to pick it up where and when it is needed and keep the people in confusion.

So most of the so called spiritual leaders are trained by the illuminati for this and there good in what they do.
There always talke half truths and fill in the part that looks like it is right, but most people stop questioning this by then and think there wonderfull!!!

There here to make sure you do not progress futher to more understanding!!!
and keep you busy with sweet talk!!!!
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:40 AM   #17
Derek
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by mu2143 View Post
What people mostly do not understand is, that the newage movemend is a part of the illuminati program. They are allready aware of what is going come out in the future!!
so they put in there players to pick it up where and when it is needed and keep the people in confusion.

So most of the so called spiritual leaders are trained by the illuminati for this and there good in what they do.
There always talke half truths and fill in the part that looks like it is right, but most people stop questioning this by then and think there wonderfull!!!

There here to make sure you do not progress futher to more understanding!!!
and keep you busy with sweet talk!!!!
Of course the new age movement has been infiltrated by the illuminati.

So has the conspiracy movement, the exopolitics movement, even the christian movement. I don't think that means all of them are 100% lies and disinformation.

Do you really think the illuminati didn't get to the bible or protestant christian doctrine, but the new age movement is fully under their control?

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Old 03-10-2010, 06:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Even the "everything has been infiltrated by the illuminati" movement has been infiltrated by the illuminati!

When will it end!

AJ..
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek View Post
The basic premise of his real research has been supported by native societies all over the planet for thousands of years.
I think that I know the basic things that you are referring to here (Mind changing matter, and thoughts effecting external things) but this is one of the things that I was refuting in the video. You seem to agree that Braden is untruthful selectively, but I would encourage you to see the sections of my video called Fraudulent Footnotes (about this subject), also The Maharishi Effect, The Global Consciousness Project and the section called Messages from Water You will find that all four of those sections are dealing with the one aspect of Braden's teaching that you seem to want to keep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek View Post
We both know the bible was rewritten and manipulated.
The interesting thing about this claim is that as often as its claimed, I have never seen anyone attempt to prove it, Which if you think about it, would be the easiest thing in the history of ancient textual criticism to do. Especially considering that there are more fragments (26,000) for the New Testament from the 1st century on up, so all that would need to be done is to show a point in history where the texts were altered, but even the skeptic scholars don't argue this other than minor spelling errors or similar things. The fact is that all of the texts agree, and considering that they are by far, the most scrutinized texts (by both sides) in the history of the world, you would expect at least someone to simply point to the place where it was changed and say "Ah ha!, before this time it said this, and now it says thus".

I think people tend to confuse this idea with the various modern English translations, but this is the same thing you deal with in french or Chinese or any other language that the bible is translated in, there are challenges and some things get lost in translation when going from the original to the modern but they ALL have recourse to the same unchanging Greek and Hebrew texts, a simple concordance is all anyone from any language would need, We can in fact be sure, (despite the earnest attempts of its critics for thousands of years) that the bible is the exact same thing that was written originally. see my video Council of Nicaea myth debunked


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek View Post
There is a massive part of the new age movement (if you want to call it that) that respects and applies biblical teaching to their life. I keep the 23rd psalm in my pocket at all times. I even call upon Jesus for protection and guidance and feel I have a closer relationship and respect for him now then ever.
I understand why you would think that, but as I tried to show in the last section of the Braden video that the position is not something that can be held logically. It was C.S. Lewis, a professor of philosophy at Oxford and Cambridge, both when he was an atheist and afterwords, that demonstrated this so clearly C.S. Lewis - "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic"
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:13 AM   #20
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Lightbulb Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

You think, I do not know that. Of course I'm already aware of that, there still rewritting the bible today.

You need to find out what is truth and which is a lie, the main problem is with people when the have read something they read it like if it is a scribt and not trying to understand what is writen in any forms of media.


There are thing in the bible that speaks of truth for example I found this video of this person that is reading a line out of a bible about Sumeria and I knew that was true. Because where repeating history again and he gets his information from spirit with out this your lost.

He my sound crazy, but it is created to make people ignore them
http://www.youtube.com/user/photohel...25/Qt6HjW8UnQM

I know this guy is in contact with spirit and he is getting prophetic Dream of things to come

It those not matter if you follow/listen the/to Bible or Newage when you do not do you research then you do not become aware of it.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:21 AM   #21
mu2143
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Lightbulb Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

But only the thing about Sumeria, but not the rest of that video that the he said it could not be changed!!! this of course depending on the people waking up
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:31 AM   #22
Derek
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
I think I know the basic things you are referring to (mind changing matter and thoughts effecting external things) but this is exact thing that I was refuting, you seem to agree that he is untruthful selectively, but I would encourage you to see the sections of my video called Fraudulent Footnotes (about this subject), also The Maharishi Effect, The Global Consciousness Project and the section called Messages from Water You will find that all four of those sections are dealing with the one aspect of Braden's teaching that you seem to want to keep.
Yes that was part of what I was refering to. I do beleive that at least one group in the illuminati is promoting the law of attraction as being a totally self serving materialistic thing. I don't think that means that its all made up either.

Quote:
The interesting thing about this claim is that as often as its claimed I have never seen anyone attempt to prove it, Which if you think about it would be the easiest thing in the history of ancient textual criticism to do considering that there are more fragments (26,000) for the NT from the 1st century on up, so all that would need to be done is show a point in history where the texts were altered, but even the skeptic scholars don't argue this, other than minor spelling errors or similar things, the fact is that all of them agree, considering that it is the most scrutinized text (by both sides) in the history of the world, you would expect at least someone to simply point to the place where it was changed and say ah ha before this time it said this and now it says thus.

I think people tend to confuse this idea with the various modern English translations, but this is the same thing you deal with in french or Chinese or any other language that the bible is translated in, there are challenges and some things get lost in translation when going from the original to the modern but they ALL have recourse to the same unchanging Greek and Hebrew texts, a simple concordance is all anyone from any language would need, We can in fact be sure, (despite the earnest attempts of its critics for thousands of years) that the bible is the exact same thing that was written originally. see my video Council of Nicaea myth debunked
Thats interesting, I was unaware of that.
The bible was in fact written by rome though, and we both know how corrupt and power hungry the roman catholic church and that whole bloodline was. There is evidence to support books being left out as well.

and like I said above

Quote:
Do you really think the illuminati didn't get to the bible or protestant christian doctrine, but the new age movement is fully under their control?
It wouldn't make much sense that they left it all perfectly in tact.

Quote:
I understand why you would think that, but as I tried to show in the last section of the Braden video that the position is not something that can be held logically. It was C.S. Lewis a professor of philosophy and Oxford and Cambridge both when he was an atheist and after that demonstrated this so clearly C.S. Lewis - "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic"
Well I can assure you it's a very real day to day experience of gratitude for the man. I can also assure you the people that think along these lines (including myself) are much more christlike in thier behavior than most christians Ive met and am aware of. Thats not to say christians are bad or ignorant either and thats not to say that all new age people are christlike.

Last edited by Derek; 03-10-2010 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:45 AM   #23
mu2143
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Smile Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Isabelle's Vision this if from a child !!just found this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5g-...eature=related
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:56 AM   #24
Derek
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

I just watched "the maharishi effect"

Ive read all those anti TM sites and for that reason stayed far away from TM. I was really skeptical of those studies to begin with so this was no surprise to me. The fact that they were being promoted by the RAND corporation was even more suspicious.

I do however believe that meditation has an effect on other people. I believe this from experience not studies. TM is from what I understand almost like the opposite of meditation. When you meditate you feel at peace and more aware. TM makes you feel confused chaotic and unaware.
I believe this is why it was developed and promoted by the beatles and such and why it causes crime rather than decreasing it.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:02 AM   #25
Knowwheretorun
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

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Originally Posted by Derek View Post
The bible was in fact written by rome though, and we both know how corrupt and power hungry the roman catholic church
No argument from me on the latter part, but to say that the bible was written by Rome is simply impossible, the catholic church didn't come in to existence until almost 400 years later, and before that time the Roman empire was enthusiastically trying to wipe Christianity and their bible off the face of the earth. They fed them to the lions for sport, lit them on fire for garden parties and such.

And the killings didn't stop after Rome became the catholic church either, they eventually killed more Christians than ever before, except their new reason was because the Christians wouldn't believe the wacky stuff that the Catholic Church was teaching, stuff that is 100% NOT in the bible (Mary worship, priests, saints, popes, pagan rituals and holidays.... I could go on and on)

They called people that wouldn't go along with the new version "heretics", and the rest is history.
They scared people for centuries into going along with a system that was 180 degrees opposite to what was in the bible.

The thing that will really make you do a double take is when you realize that what the Illuminati (or whatever you want to call them) was really doing with the Catholic Church is actually taking away the bible from the common man, (they said the masses in Latin, a language that almost no one understood, they told people to only let the priests tell them what it said, they actually put it on the banned books list in the 1200's! .....many many people were burned alive during the inquisitions because they chose to believe these fragments of the bible that were still circulating and not the catholic church.
Almost without exception these people were given a chance to recant and avoid any number of excruciating deaths, if they would only renounce what they read in the bible..

THAT is the mindset of the real Illuminati, they have just got better at selling their own viewpoint to people, in subtle ways that make the people think they were the ones who came up with the idea to hate Christians, never stopping to consider it was sold to them from cradle to grave, from the schools to the tv.
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