Please stop the **** about subscription and money

[Sideshow Shaman]

I look forward to the time that Camelot/Avalon is subscription based. I welcome the opportunity to support Camelot in the very small way that subscription will allow. Perhaps then the many pointless posts will lessen in volume. Perhaps then we can browse without wading through 10 pages of "me too" replies. Better yet we might even see threads that are interesting from start through finish.

People very much need to realize that money is not in any way evil. Please discard your societal programming and also your reactions to that. Money is a tool to be used wisely. In fact, if money is ethically added to a transaction it lends power to the transaction of goods or information.

I am not a prolific poster, but I do read. Lately the effort of reading versus the payout in information has been nose-diving downward. Frankly most of the things considered novel and thread worthy by the newbies here, I was aware of already.

Do not sabotage this opportunity. If you are "opposed to money" then be that way, stop posting, read, learn and be satisfied. The information will still be free. The ability to dilute it will cost a pittance in monetary terms. Acknowledge that this behavior costs the rest of us something more valuable than money.

I hope that the small entrance fee will make people consider the importance of their words more carefully. Be humble or be gone. Support those doing good work or admit you have no interest in helping.

[munkey]

obviously if you don't have the money to spare, your opinion is obviously less important than those who can afford a subscription.
some of us are struggling just to get food on our childrens plate and join free online forums and hopefully put in some little pearls of wisdom from time to time and also to meet people that they wouldn't be able to due to money constraints.

but please feel free to allow only those with disposable income to spread the true word.

I am sure the powers that be have more than enough money to post whatever they want.

[Karen]

If you really want to stay and post, and truly don't have $1 a month to spare, there are options: gift certificates from others, barter and really your imagination is the only limit. Options will appear on the subscription page. PM me if you want to work out some options. The only ones I can't help are those opposed to the principle of the matter. And I agree with some of the points made by the OP - most people would appreciate it if we could soon move on to use the bandwidth here in more productive ways. I've been listening to the complaints and proposed some solutions. I do wish I had all the solutions. My personal peace comes from allowance - it's a magical attitude that will open new doors. Karen

Originally Posted by munkey

obviously if you don't have the money to spare, your opinion is obviously less important than those who can afford a subscription.
some of us are struggling just to get food on our childrens plate and join free online forums and hopefully put in some little pearls of wisdom from time to time and also to meet people that they wouldn't be able to due to money constraints.

but please feel free to allow only those with disposable income to spread the true word.

I am sure the powers that be have more than enough money to post whatever they want.

[GregorArturo]

It's principal people god damnit. Principal! I will continue to post on these threads of telling us 'few' to shut the hell up and that we are arguing over petty things. It's petty because you do not understand the value of something so great. Something that transcends all levels of what you consider to be knowledge but is in fact just a piece of information, as there is a difference! I myself have tried to bring forth knowledge, the so called universal truths, things that are so fundamental over anything else in which you alone can easily prove to yourself. But no, you would rather stand around waiting for some interview to come out hot on the press for you to sit glued to while thinking "Heh, I'm glad I am listening to these guys over all my friends with CNN and the New York Times." It's an endless cycle of faith in the outside world, and with it you still choose to deride your fellow man!

Yes, there are people who need every dollar at this moment to get by, but there are also people who need to hear a voice of reason, one of passion and beauty, that can still instill some sense of hope in their hearts while being entrenched in the cruelty of this world.

I am sorry but the voices of reason are leaving this forum. The ones who spoke truth have already left, and I feel like I am one of the few who remain and my patience is wearing thin, very very thin. I have been setting aside by beliefs as of lately on the sole notion of helping others, of keeping some sense of rationality among us instead of letting mob pyschology rule our minds into thinking that we are still purely free thinkers with a noble cause. My purpose here is to inspire, to bring beauty to the eyes shadowed from its simple existence found in every nook and cranny of this ever so perfect of universe. And I will not allow for others to infringe on my efforts, OUR EFFORTS, to bring that inspiration to others on a notion of such ignorance.

And you tell us to be gone, shame on you. For the separation only drives us only deeper into darkness. Is that what you truly want?

::dramatic pause followed by a deep breath::

Be well my friend. We are all in this together. Namaste.

[Jack]

Gregg , is it not one of your principals to help clothe, feed and shelter the people who have done so much and spent so much of their future savings on bringing this information to you? The people that have done this for so long now, and to the extent that they are having difficulties meeting their rent.

A matter of principal.

One dollar.. a month from each of us, will keep these guys doing what they do and stop them getting kicked out onto the street homeless.. Or should we just let them get kicked out and let them go hungry because too many here were men of 'principal'.

Try looking at this from a different perspective.

They have provided an excelent service for so long, for free. Now, they need our help.

I like your work, your an interesting guy. And i will pay your subscription. But first of all i want you to understand that Bill and Kerry are not resorting to subscription so they can live the high life. They are doing it so they can pay their rent, buy some food, and continue doing the excelent service that they can no longer do for free.

They wouldnt be doing this unless they really needed too.

There was a time when you really needed the truth, and Bill and Kerry were there for you.

Will you be there for them in their time of need?

[milk and honey]

You make 2 assumptions Jack.

) One is that because Bill and Kerry's need for money is legitimate therefore it is justifiable to demand it from discussion forum participants.

2) That Project Camelot brings us the truth.

On the first point i believe it is more important to get the philosophical underpinnings straight. The 'means' do not justify the 'ends'. Therefore, another source of income -- yes from most of the same people anyway -- is the just choice.

So please 'Kill and Bury' the idea from 'Bill and Kerry'. I know, i'm a poet sometimes.

Your 2nd assumption could be downright dangerous without qualifying it with your own discernment and then bringing to the forum your own view of what is and what isn't 'true' from each source of info on Project Camelot. If Project Avalon is not going to be led along by the larry then one of it's first functions is to publically distill the truth from the PC interviews; or at least make an honest attempt to do so.

Unqualified statements that 'we have the truth here' while it gives the impression of 'value' cannot stand unchallenged if the blind are not to be led by the blind. We're getting tired of that old approach which i'm sure you'd agree.

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by Jack

Gregg , is it not one of your principals to help clothe, feed and shelter the people who have done so much and spent so much of their future savings on bringing this information to you? The people that have done this for so long now, and to the extent that they are having difficulties meeting their rent.

A matter of principal.

One dollar.. a month from each of us, will keep these guys doing what they do and stop them getting kicked out onto the street homeless.. Or should we just let them get kicked out and let them go hungry because too many here were men of 'principal'.

Try looking at this from a different perspective.

They have provided an excelent service for so long, for free. Now, they need our help.

I like your work, your an interesting guy. And i will pay your subscription. But first of all i want you to understand that Bill and Kerry are not resorting to subscription so they can live the high life. They are doing it so they can pay their rent, buy some food, and continue doing the excelent service that they can no longer do for free.

They wouldnt be doing this unless they really needed too.

There was a time when you really needed the truth, and Bill and Kerry were there for you.

Will you be there for them in their time of need?

Each day I wake up and respond to various e-mails (private messages too on difference services) every morning responding to people with questions. I do this throughout the entire day. I talk on the phone for an hour or two with complete strangers across the U.S. helping them out with their everyday problems or spiritual predicaments. The same goes with my close friends on relationships and helping them on homework, most specifically math. The same friends also think I am crazy for the time I devote to such BS ideas as they assume next week is still going to be all about relationships and homework. It happened tonight with one of my best friends.

I set aside my very own homework to write articles on metaphysical theories to get these ideas out to people to hopefully shed some beauty into the world, or spend thirty hours in four days cracking away an numbers in a spreadsheet trying to figure out the underlying dynamics of sound frequencies to unlock the physics behind acoustic levitation so we ourselves can once again make sacred sites of healing and divine beauty.

I walk through the cold instead of driving a car, to help Earth breathe just ever so easier.

I go downtown and put on a great masterpiece by Sigur Ros and let my feet dance in perfect synchronicity as the fire streams about me, so people can experience a moment of beauty like no other.

I remote view a different question every night for a friend in the hopes of helping them with some curiosity or paradox in their life.

I have been giving away my art to anyone I feel could use a little beauty in their lives [being nothing is selling in my gallery and it then serves a better purpose].

I have my parents barrage me with negative remarks of how ignorant and stubborn I am for not voting in the election, for giving them advice months in advance on how to deal with the upcoming economy, and for even trying to remind them of simple philosophical truths.

All in all, I spend every little moment trying to help the world, to show some truth, inspire the less curious, and share the endless love that can bring us back together once again. Most importantly, as I have used the word so many times [being it is the only word that comes even to an inkling of its true form], beauty is at the core of it all. And I never ask for a cent for any of it. Never.

When I dance [with fire], people can throw me a donation out of respect, but I will always be there regardless of the money. When my art is in the gallery, I pay for it to be there with the main intent of just sharing it with the world.

Because as soon as I put a price upon my message for those to hear or see it, my audience becomes limited and the messenger becomes more important.

So look at it from my perspective. If suddenly my parents said tough luck, you're out of the house. I would have to go get a full time job [on top of my ailing gallery], and all the effort I give to the world would come to quite the halt.

However, when every moment outside of work, school, and sleep. I would still be writing my articles. I would still remote view for my friends. I would still talk to strangers and help with their problems even if I am lacking sleep. I would still dance with my fire downtown for all to see (and that is not about being the center of attention as I believe you will most justly believe) spending my much need money on fuel to perform. I'd still spend money on art supplies to make new works of art to still put in my ailing gallery.

These notions to many would be considered irrational, but these are fundamental principals at the core of existence. I serve humanity.

And with that, I would still give my presentation next month to over 500 people and not charge a cent in that some person might be like "Hey, this kid has something." and starts funding me so I don't have to work and start working on my experiments and treatises.

If Bill and Kerry could not pay their rent or continue their work, than they would have to stop, and get other jobs, just like you and me [if our resources ran dry], as they realized that their work has already blossomed into something beautiful by connecting thousands of us around the world with the same core beliefs of finding truth and harmony in this reality. And with that notion they would of realized the importance in keep those connections among us without restrictions so they can continue to grow.

And then, we'd be left with Project Avalon, and ailing Project Camelot, instead of vice versa. However, our members would realize the travesty of this and it would not last long if it even came to fruition as I believe the funds would remedy the situation on their own alone. If we all believed Bill and Kerry were truly doing good for us, then we would not let them fail.

I believe Bill and Kerry underestimated themselves, and because of it, along with much of the old paradigm still rooted strongly in the psyche of many here, that voices like mine will be greatly ignored as it has been for the majority of my life. For a moment, I had really thought...

I have nothing further to say. Namaste.

[LadyGolfer]

Hello all, I am interested in creating a free php forum for individuals with knowledge they would like to share. My main focus at this moment is finding out how much bandwidth would be used to post this information. At the present moment, 15,000 GB transfer bandwidth would be permitted through the server per year. The cost for the server would roughly be around $100.00 per year, my time and programming skills, which I am willing to invest if there is enough interest. I would like to know how many fellow Project Avalon members would be interested in such an idea and are willing to donate their time as moderators?

Love and Light

[blue ice]

It would be wise if the authorities placed an address on the forum , and people who want to send money can...end of problem

[raulduke]

I agree Gregor, it's about the principle of a barrier.

An initial subscription fee barrier to potential new members is going to hurt imo. A passer by w/ something good to say is less likely to go through the added trouble of paying even twelve dollars, in order to convey their knowledge/opinion. I disagree in that aspect w/ the OP as well, in that I feel like that passer by or "newbie" could be potentialy very helpful/inspiring.

It's sad but as Karen has mentioned it's already done and we need to look forward to ways of lessening that initial barrier. I have what i think is a good idea, maybe Karen you could help as it I've seen that you're concerned about this as much or more than any non mod member.

Here it is:

I can basicly only afford to give two (minimum) subscriptions worth (24$) when the time comes. I have no one in particular that I would like to nominate so I would like to donate the other 12$ to some new potential member.

My idea is that (after the $ switchover) any excess $ donated past the minimum subscription fee for all active members, be divided by twelve and that many free memberships awarded (first come first serve style).

Any donation funds will still go to B and K of course but there could just be a pool of a new potential free mebership for every twelve dollars donated.

I would love it that my money could go to help B and K and help someone get a membership and voice their opinions.

I think this is a really good idea. Anyone else?

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

........the voices of reason are leaving this forum. The ones who spoke truth have already left, and I feel like I am one of the few who remain and my patience is wearing thin, very very thin.

C'mon brother.

What are you saying here. That's so condescending.

I would think one of the last few voices of reason/truthspeakers would be a little more constructive.

We all know where you are now. You've advertised well, so we know where to find you if you're patience runs out here.

I normally like your posts here Arturo, but latley I'm reading alot of ego.

Fuction is the key. How can we better function? Be constructive.

Sorry for the aggressive approach here, but I took offense to that quote, because I believe that there are many voices of reason still here. As for "truthspeakers", imho (for now) that term is a subjective interpertation.

p.s. book of gregor questions? i know you're busy but like i've said i'm still curious.

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by raulduke

C'mon brother.

What are you saying here. That's so condescending.

I would think one of the last few voices of reason/truthspeakers would be a little more constructive.

We all know where you are now. You've advertised well, so we know where to find you if you're patience runs out here.

I normally like your posts here Arturo, but latley I'm reading alot of ego.

Fuction is the key. How can we better function? Be constructive.

Sorry for the aggressive approach here, but I took offense to that quote, because I believe that there are many voices of reason still here. As for "truthspeakers", imho (for now) that term is a subjective interpertation.

p.s. book of gregor questions? i know you're busy but like i've said i'm still curious.

Ego, stubborness, call it what you please. I will state that my ego has been ingrained in these ideologies for quite sometime now is by no means something new or a product of New Age theology. I remember having this stance back at fourteen, and again, my parent's called be stubborn and ignorant.

That statement has truth as I find the issue of principal to be the greatest thing brought upon Avalon, and those who realize it, and believe in such an ideology, to go against it would be hypocritical. In my view, the people who understand, believe, and then of course justly follow that ideology are truly voices of reason I feel. I myself can be called a hypocrite for not initially following in their footsteps, however, my duty to be here to help and contribute is strong, and as I said it is a very hard decision for me to make as I am still pondering it.

I think our first step in 'functioning better' starts in the realm of thought and the intangible, before that of action and the tangible.

I promise to answer your question tomorrow. It is 5 AM and my energy is absolutely drained. I must sleep as Mondays and classes just naturally coincide. I am surprised I was able to write that at all. Namaste.

[777 The Great Work]

Part of the awakening process is sifting through the BS.Thats how you develop intuition. I agree with Gregor, a vast majority of us don't study and sit by and wait for the next new truth that comes from some well known personality. We have to do this work and its not easy.

I always think about how such a dark agenda can work behind the scenes for thousands of years and we can't do it for 3 months.Money has always seperated us and the game is still working.

Soon the people will realize that money never exsisted and that we only exchange value and value can't be seen. The overlords gave value a face.

[Dean Plejaren]

One dollar.. a month from each of us, will keep these guys doing what they do and stop them getting kicked out onto the street homeless..

Here is the deal. If they want my support and lots of others they can have it easy. By paying for the PC interviews and information they gather....I am willing to give them 3 times the amount for the PC interviews than they want for the subscriptions. So don't anyone ever say it's about not contributing.

It's unlikely I'll pay for a forum subscription because I don't believe in overcharging and cutting communication between people. It is more important to have the communication stay open and easy access than it is to have the PC interviews free. Especially when all the money goes into the PC work.

Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren

Here is the deal. If they want my support and lots of others they can have it easy. By paying for the PC interviews and information they gather....I am willing to give them 3 times the amount for the PC interviews than they want for the subscriptions. So don't anyone ever say it's about not contributing.

It's unlikely I'll pay for a forum subscription because I don't believe in overcharging and cutting communication between people. It is more important to have the communication stay open and easy access than it is to have the PC interviews free. Especially when all the money goes into the PC work.

But if we had to pay for that information in the first place, two thirds of us wouldn't even be here. We'd be getting the type of information we seek from other sources, and miss out guys like Bob Dean.

You know how many Alex Jones DVDs I've seen? None. Heck, I haven't seen the Iron Man movie - I didn't have the money to go to the theater, and I don't have the twenty bucks to drop on the DVD.

If B&K had only this forum, opened it for free, and then without warning sprung the subscription thing on us, I'd be screaming that something stinks in Rotterdam. But the interviews remain free, and I remember seeing on my first day in September a statement about how eventually they would convert the forum to subscription. I think that puts them "on the level" from day one, does it not?

I also think that the administrators know there are some good posters who will refuse to pay on principle, and are willing to bend the rules and make a few exceptions here and there to keep em' here. That should say something. And, everything that gets posted remains read only for everyone - seekers will be able to get at what is posted.

The only negative that will occur, is that future "good posters," who are not here yet, will refuse to share their insights here because it costs money. They'll click "post," they'll see "this ride is at least a dollar buddy," and being the free spirited enlightened thinkers that they are, will say, "no way" - one dollar or one hundred dollars.

My suggestion to cure that would be to make all new sign ups free for one month, with the understanding they have to start kicking a buck at the end of the free trial.

[David]

Originally Posted by historycircus

The only negative that will occur, is that future "good posters," who are not here yet, will refuse to share their insights here because it costs money. They'll click "post," they'll see "this ride is at least a dollar buddy," and being the free spirited enlightened thinkers that they are, will say, "no way" - one dollar or one hundred dollars.

There are a lot of good posters here and more will come when it becomes subscription based. A lot of these posters are silent at the moment because their post get lost from the loads of trash and unrelated comments pertaining to the thread.

[Northern Boy]

Originally Posted by David

There are a lot of good posters here and more will come when it becomes subscription based. A lot of these posters are silent at the moment because their post get lost from the loads of trash and unrelated comments pertaining to the thread.

The truth is lots of people don`t post because they are afraid to post because some people here belittle what people have to say you can see it all over the place we should be helping one another not being critical of some one for what they have to say more often than not Ego and Emotion rule what people say.

[BeaTnik-BandiT]

Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren

Here is the deal. If they want my support and lots of others they can have it easy. By paying for the PC interviews and information they gather....I am willing to give them 3 times the amount for the PC interviews than they want for the subscriptions. So don't anyone ever say it's about not contributing.

It's unlikely I'll pay for a forum subscription because I don't believe in overcharging and cutting communication between people. It is more important to have the communication stay open and easy access than it is to have the PC interviews free. Especially when all the money goes into the PC work.

I second this. It's crystal clear logic.

Since the Forum owners seems to have decided to roll in subscriptions,
i will decide later and see what happens before taking decision.

It's fair though, that we can still lurk in read-only mode...

salute.

[hobbit]

I really enjoyed this forum, lots of information and positive people.
now it's all about money and subscriptions.
All the best everyone, byeeee.
Hobbit

[Harper]

Grey, greg greg darlin,

Everyone gets paid in a way for something, if you were not so young I would expect you to be a little more self-aware. But as you are a young chap trying to figure it all out I am not going to be too hard on your here.

So you do indeed give of your time to help others, which is great. No money changes hands but you get paid in acceptance, appreciation and self worth. You have already told us on another thread about your parents and how if we could all write to them to tell them how great you are maybe they would love you more. Honey you must sit down and listen to why you are doing all of this stuff. Its your ego that you are serving to gain fame in a way on this forum and others and to be important, in your eyes you are doing this to serve others but if they didnt say thank you, would you still do it?

other people help people quietly all day because its the rigt thing to do, help people who ask. I want you to examine how irritated you feel reading this, that anger is inversely proportional to your self awareness. Its a long road that takes its toll on everyone, and it doesnt end either..... the journey is the path.

You cant go around saying you are one of the true truthsayers left on this forum. Its silly.

continue to do as you wish but just dont expect validation for every little thing, remember who you are doing it for, or for that matter is there a trully generous act? Isn't there always a give and take? dont you get as much from it as the people you help? Isn't it ok to admit that?

Look at your actions, just observe with no judgement. Just watch how good the ego is at it job. Its trully got a head start on us.

Take care of yourself

[raulduke]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

That statement has truth as I find the issue of principal to be the greatest thing brought upon Avalon, and those who realize it, and believe in such an ideology, to go against it would be hypocritical. In my view, the people who understand, believe, and then of course justly follow that ideology are truly voices of reason I feel. I myself can be called a hypocrite for not initially following in their footsteps, however, my duty to be here to help and contribute is strong, and as I said it is a very hard decision for me to make as I am still pondering it.

I consider myself a reasonable individual. I'm against a subscription fee but I'll likely stay and pay it, because Bill and Kerry have provided so much for me, and i'm happy repay them what little I can.

There is no inherent hypocracy involved in participation w/ reservations. I've voiced my reservations, and will continue to try to help solve the real problem, and I will likely stay although I'm not sure either.

I'm getting a really wierd vibe from AV and I'm not quite sure if I want to get involved there. I'll watch some more before i decide, It's new and growing pains will occur and have.
Individuals (critical thinkers) will sometimes disagree, it is their nature to question of course. Kerry's post on this subject was very interesting.
I really do wish this place could stay free, but I guess there's no hope there, so I'll have to decide soon I guess.

So, w/ all that jibberish said, what did you think of the idea in my last post?

I think it could possibly solve the barrier issue (which is the real problem).

We could even have a list of names of new members that wanted sponsorship and then donations would kill two birds w/ one stone (dumb birds flying so close together)

We'd see that a new member wanted in and maybe someone has another twelve bucks to help. It sounds like they get little donations like that all the time anyway.

I do think that there should be a good bit of transparency involved though, in as much as I'm willing to donate to help B and K w/ living expenses and research related fees, but any surplus funds (if there are any) imho should go to some charitable organization(s). I'm quite sure Bill and Kerry did not do this to get rich, and I would guess that if the subscription fees became profits at some point, they would be open to redonation (to charities).

Allright I'm drained too and I gotta work in three hours so I'm gonna try to lay my head down for a bit.

peace.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

It's principal people god damnit. Principal! I will continue to post on these threads of telling us 'few' to shut the hell up and that we are arguing over petty things. It's petty because you do not understand the value of something so great. Something that transcends all levels of what you consider to be knowledge but is in fact just a piece of information, as there is a difference! I myself have tried to bring forth knowledge, the so called universal truths, things that are so fundamental over anything else in which you alone can easily prove to yourself. But no, you would rather stand around waiting for some interview to come out hot on the press for you to sit glued to while thinking "Heh, I'm glad I am listening to these guys over all my friends with CNN and the New York Times." It's an endless cycle of faith in the outside world, and with it you still choose to deride your fellow man!

Yes, there are people who need every dollar at this moment to get by, but there are also people who need to hear a voice of reason, one of passion and beauty, that can still instill some sense of hope in their hearts while being entrenched in the cruelty of this world.

I am sorry but the voices of reason are leaving this forum. The ones who spoke truth have already left, and I feel like I am one of the few who remain and my patience is wearing thin, very very thin. I have been setting aside by beliefs as of lately on the sole notion of helping others, of keeping some sense of rationality among us instead of letting mob pyschology rule our minds into thinking that we are still purely free thinkers with a noble cause. My purpose here is to inspire, to bring beauty to the eyes shadowed from its simple existence found in every nook and cranny of this ever so perfect of universe. And I will not allow for others to infringe on my efforts, OUR EFFORTS, to bring that inspiration to others on a notion of such ignorance.

And you tell us to be gone, shame on you. For the separation only drives us only deeper into darkness. Is that what you truly want?

::dramatic pause followed by a deep breath::

Be well my friend. We are all in this together. Namaste.

With respect Gregor, I find your comments incredibly condescending and driven by an inflated ego of proportions that should concern. I think that you are a brilliant young man but my advice to you is to check yourself and be sure to know how much you do not know and remain humble. I also think that your dramatic attitude is really not needed and is quite soap opera-ish. It made me laugh. Lay back kid. Enjoy the ride.

I casually check project Avalon every few days and occasionally make a post. I think my average posting is less than one a day. I havn't even watched half of project camelot's interviews - I hardly wait around for them and act like a sheep who is engaged in groupthink and a mode of docile non free thinking as you imply we all do. Who is we? Who are you even talking to?

My only point earlier in this thread was simply that 1 dollar a month is next to nothing and I would gladly pay 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 dollars a month even though I only casually read and engage in this forum. Do you really think that your 400some odd posts have not been worth that? I know that money is absurd and hopefully someday we will transcend it (especially fiat fractional reserve banking notes), but unfortunately our current world still uses it. I work many many hours a week in a god damn mexican kitchen just to get by and I still end up having to spend a bit on a credit card. You aren't even employed - why don't you set up a lemonade stand and run it for an hour every week so that you can make a buck to contribute to the forum? Or you could walk around and collect some bottles. Or smoke one less joint a week. Or search under your couch cushions. There are plenty of options.

Again, I mean this all with respect and certainly a sense of comedy. I try to have a very Zen-like attitude and I also think that everything is funny. I have no time for drama. Everyone is the center of their own universe and I think that it is very easy to get caught up in inflated self importance. I know I have. The advice I would give is the advice I give to myself, and that is to take ourselves much less seriously.

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by Irving

With respect Gregor, I find your comments incredibly condescending and driven by an inflated ego of proportions that should concern. I think that you are a brilliant young man but my advice to you is to check yourself and be sure to know how much you do not know and remain humble. I also think that your dramatic attitude is really not needed and is quite soap opera-ish. It made me laugh. Lay back kid. Enjoy the ride.

I casually check project Avalon every few days and occasionally make a post. I think my average posting is less than one a day. I havn't even watched half of project camelot's interviews - I hardly wait around for them and act like a sheep who is engaged in groupthink and a mode of docile non free thinking as you imply we all do. Who is we? Who are you even talking to?

My only point earlier in this thread was simply that 1 dollar a month is next to nothing and I would gladly pay 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 dollars a month even though I only casually read and engage in this forum. Do you really think that your 400some odd posts have not been worth that? I know that money is absurd and hopefully someday we will transcend it (especially fiat fractional reserve banking notes), but unfortunately our current world still uses it. I work many many hours a week in a god damn mexican kitchen just to get by and I still end up having to spend a bit on a credit card. You aren't even employed - why don't you set up a lemonade stand and run it for an hour every week so that you can make a buck to contribute to the forum? Or you could walk around and collect some bottles. Or smoke one less joint a week. Or search under your couch cushions. There are plenty of options.

Again, I mean this all with respect and certainly a sense of comedy. I try to have a very Zen-like attitude and I also think that everything is funny. I have no time for drama. Everyone is the center of their own universe and I think that it is very easy to get caught up in inflated self importance. I know I have. The advice I would give is the advice I give to myself, and that is to take ourselves much less seriously.

I decided not to participate in any of these discussions anymore, and let them go on their own way, but being you're a personal friend who I respect greatly, so I am responding.

First, you just stereotyped the hell of me thinking I'm a pothead, that I don't have a job, and that I have all the free time in the world.

And then also the assumption that I am speaking from purely from my ego, as many of you so think. If that was the case, I would not be speaking to you right now. As my voice is coming from above the ego, on the notion of a fundamental principal. The ego subliminally wants to be seen as separate and to survive. This principal goes beyond survival. Death is but a moment. These ideas live for an eternity. I leave it there, and you will hear no more of me on that regards. Namaste.

[Irving]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I decided not to participate in any of these discussions anymore, and let them go on their own way, but being you're a personal friend who I respect greatly, so I am responding.

First, you just stereotyped the hell of me thinking I'm a pothead, that I don't have a job, and that I have all the free time in the world.

And then also the assumption that I am speaking from purely from my ego, as many of you so think. If that was the case, I would not be speaking to you right now. As my voice is coming from above the ego, on the notion of a fundamental principal. The ego subliminally wants to be seen as separate and to survive. This principal goes beyond survival. Death is but a moment. These ideas live for an eternity. I leave it there, and you will hear no more of me on that regards. Namaste.

Fair enough. I surely wrote that with comedy and seriousness blended together. I definitely didn't mean any personal negativity towards you. I was just letting my honest initial reaction to your first post flow out of me in the moment after I read it. I suppose I could have left out some of the sly suggestions for raising money. lol I apologize for stereotyping.

I guess I feel that everyone should just go with the flow on this board - if there are fewer people posting then so be it. Lets work with what we have. I think that there are a lot of lurkers like myself who casually contribute and read, I'm certainly not very worried about the direction of this forum. I think that I am in more of an observer mode right now than anything (largely because of health issues), but that certainly doesn't make me a passive waiter and consumer of other people's packaged information that you described in your post. You, Gregor, certainly seem to be in a very active mode and that's awesome. I salute and respect that for sure. I have just learned from personal experience and hard lessons that it's important to realize that everyone is at a very different point in their mental, spiritual and physical developments and no matter how much wiser and smarter you may be than someone, you have to be gentle and humble with that power and wield it well. An automobile with an enormously fast engine and high quality parts will race like a dream but its also much easier to crash and burn with as well. I think that everyone here on Avalon have brilliant minds almost by default because we all know that some very big things are happening here in the universe. It's definitely not always easy to live in the various different awakened stages that we are all at and I had to learn it the hard way by losing a relationship with a great girl who I definitely, unknowingly at the time, condescended to and made her feel belittled a lot of the time by my excessive rambling and lecturing with a hotheaded attitude. You, Gregor, are a fu*king brilliant man, the great majority of the metaphysics that you talk is way over my head. I'll bow to you on that. Take it easy on us simpletons. We definitely all have different areas of interest and expertise.

Message boards always seem to attract a swarm of negativity and less than productive members and they probably always will. I think it's just a less efficient way of communication than face to face interactions because of all of the mindless clutter that accumulates, but message boards also have their benefits because of the globe reaching possibilites of different people to talk to. Pros and Cons for sure. So, I think that maybe some people just have too high of expectations for this board and want it to be perfect or something. I think peoples attempts to want to change the boards content, or change the participation level, or change the members, could all take a good lesson from the movie Fight Club and just cease trying to have so much control all the time. Hear that Avalonians? Let go of the fu*king wheel already and just let the car go where its going to go! I think that maybe the chaotic imperfections are the only option. I agree that it seems like a lot of great members have stopped participating as much and that is too bad, but so be it. Maybe they are holding back a bit and perhaps they will come back in time. I think that inner reflection and thinking is what a lot of people are doing. I'm certainly having fun watching all you crazy *******s go at it. haha Cheers. What, you can't say basta*ds?

[Flying Pyramid]

Why am i even posting in this thread?
Becasue you told me to!

Has anybody even read all my postes or any other post posted by those who are here?
I call everyone , EVERYONE to stop and look at them selves.
You don't even see it do you?

Why hasn't anyone other than myself offered your time or help?
I take that back, some of you have freely offered thier time to trascribe and other type of things to help the cause.
But as for most of you, you sit and ridicule anyone who has an idea that either is or is not about money.
Notice only those with money are the ones talking down to the ones without or who choose not to pay.
And the ones who cannot or choose not to pay ridicule those who decide to pay and like the idea.

All of these are seperation.
EVERY single person here is helping the power of seperation.
Yes including myself.

I'll be 100% honest!
On my part i did it on purpose to seperate you with intent!
How do you like those apples!

Can you now sit back and see how much of a grip seperation and programming has on you.
I had a history teacher once that told us of this great war in history and made us study it all week long and on friday tested us on it.
After the last student handed in thier paper, he stood up and ripped up all the tests and said we were all just hearded like sheep.
The war never happened, the studies we did were meaningless.
The test was not to mess with us or program us it was so we understood what true "power" really is.
We studied for that test like no tommorrow because our trusted teacher told us it was true.

I can not give you the answer but i can try to get you to realize the power of seperation. Do you understand that if you damn your brothers and sisters for thier views and beliefs then you too are damned!

If my brother chooses the dark path then let him walk and no man shall stop him.
So if people choose to stay and pay whether they can or can not, or if they leave because they choose not to pay or can not, does this mean we are to take away thier free will?
Does this mean we are to ridicule them for what they choose, for exersising thier free will.
Is this not what Avalon and ALL of this is about?

I myself made one post, one simple post to BILL & KERRY no one else about chooseing a different way to make a consistant source of money and people used it as a way for them to start bashing B&K with thier own dislikes. DO NOT use my words or my threads to spread you seeds of hate.
STAND BEHIND ME FOR I KNOW THE NOT!

I for one back Bill & Kerry in thier endevour and evey single person here for what they choose to do with there time and money.

For me and me alone, it is a matter of princapal.
Not seperation, not "i dont want to help", not "i'm poor and i can't pay" nothing other than it at its core is seperation.
"If you pay you can join the fellowship, if you can not then you must read and be confused because you have to wait for someone to ask your question to recieve the answer."

No evil, no BS like that, it just seperates those who will benifit greater from Avalon and us than we will.
Do you understand now?

Are you the kind of person who sends money who has money to feed the hungry or do you go out and feed the hungry yourself?

Who posted this "Become the change you want to see in the world."

For me and me alone, i do not want to leave anyone in the dark. I do not want to join something where my friends can not.
If they want help, i offer it and more.
If they want money, i will offer this as well and more.
If they need certain help from people with certain skills, i offer this too.
But i do not offer seperation of my family.

ALL should be welcome in fellowship.

DO NOT shame, damn, or look down apon those who walk a different path.

And as for Bill & Kerry, i have prayed that they win the lottery.
I still look forward to meeting them someday, i like Bills hat. lol
I believe that most of you read that first post of mine and saw in it what you chose to see and not what it was.

I love everybody and everybody loves icecream.

"Everyone is so ready to die for the cause, Why are they not ready to live for it?" -- Richard Scott Brooks

[NewParadigmGuy]

Does anybody know when the subscription fee is scheduled to kick in?