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Old 02-10-2010, 08:27 PM   #251
Jnana
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Although there is wisdom in being cautious, that must be balanced against the dangers of xenophobia and viewing all ETs as a threat. People are much too quick to fear and kill those who are different from themselves.

This is not what I say, nor what is written by Summers or Collier. You make a quick jump there.
Steven, I didn't mean to imply that you or Summers view all ETs as a threat, I am describing human nature in terms of general tendencies here.

If ETs making friendly overtures are actually seeking to dominate, how is the average person to know the difference? This line of reasoning reads way too much like disinformation designed to make people fearful of all ETs, and is dangerous for that reason. It could easily be used to convince people that we need to start a war against friendly ETs because they secretly seek to dominate us.

I have read some of Summers work regarding the Allies of Humanity and I find that it is not compelling. I am working through "Steps to Knowledge" now, and so far it seems reasonable, if a bit obvious.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:45 PM   #252
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A lot of posters here work for/with Greer. They are not here to learn or to share valuable knowledge. They are just doing their job.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:54 PM   #253
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A lot of posters here work for/with Greer. They are not here to learn or to share valuable knowledge. They are just doing their job.
What do you base this statement on? How many of these posters do you know personally? You certainly don't know anything about me, and I consider your statement to be a personal insult. Learn something about me, my experience, and my motivation, before you go making such unjustified and unjustifiable statements.
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:18 PM   #254
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Default Re: Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!

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Steven, I didn't mean to imply that you or Summers view all ETs as a threat, I am describing human nature in terms of general tendencies here.

.

If ETs making friendly overtures are actually seeking to dominate, how is the average person to know the difference? This line of reasoning reads way too much like disinformation designed to make people fearful of all ETs, and is dangerous for that reason. It could easily be used to convince people that we need to start a war against friendly ETs because they secretly seek to dominate us.

The opposite is also true. If you propagate the idea that all ETs are friendly, knowing that there is actually an intervention going on Earth by some ETs, the danger is real in loosing the freedom we actually fought for. And this is the center point of my statement and why i question Greer's statement.

I have read some of Summers work regarding the Allies of Humanity and I find that it is not compelling. I am working through "Steps to Knowledge" now, and so far it seems reasonable, if a bit obvious.

Thanks for your sharing. To me, it is totally life transforming...
Also, I mentionned Summers and Collier for the purpose of bringing some backup to my statement. But they are certainly not the only ones saying there is an alien intervention going on Earth.

Namaste, Steven

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Old 02-10-2010, 09:23 PM   #255
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What do you base this statement on? How many of these posters do you know personally? You certainly don't know anything about me, and I consider your statement to be a personal insult. Learn something about me, my experience, and my motivation, before you go making such unjustified and unjustifiable statements.
Jnana, my statement is not directed at you. If you think this is a personal insult to you, your conscience maybe telling you that you should not be doing what you are doing.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:25 PM   #256
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Jnana, my statement is not directed at you. If you think this is a personal insult to you, your conscience maybe telling you that you should not be doing what you are doing.
You posted your message immediately after mine, therefore it may logically be construed as a direct response. I consider it an insult because I do consider the information I post to be honest and worthwhile, and I do so for my own reasons. Why that should have anything to do with *my* conscience makes no sense at all! What, pray tell, should I not be doing? Should I stop telling the truth about what I have experienced?

If your previous statement was not directed at me, then why would you imply that I should have a guilty conscience? I think you have contradicted yourself, and you have insulted me yet again!

I think people need to know that the experience you had with Greer is not the only possibility, and that your notion of the vast Greer conspiracy of deceit is not necessarily valid. I don't expect to change your mind, your experience was what it was, but I will not accept your thinly veiled insults without at least pointing them out for what they are.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:58 PM   #257
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A lot of posters here work for/with Greer. They are not here to learn or to share valuable knowledge. They are just doing their job.
It might be very true indeed and would explain why some members are questioning Bill Ryan behaviors on his own forum, at the same time exploding with insults when members are questioning Greer statements.

Now, imagine for a moment if Steven Greer would admit that some ETs are not good and are actually making a secretive intervention on Earth. How his business would go, knowing how much he charges for training? He is smart enough to know it is not good to invite people in a training on how to make contact if you admit some ETs aren't good, worse they are here for a time... This is, in my opinion, the real reason for his statement.

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Old 02-11-2010, 01:11 AM   #258
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Default Re: Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!

hmm, I neither work for ~ or with Greer, nor have I the opportunity to attend one of his workshops. However, I did the research and know personal friends of his. I also personally know Alex Collier, who I just saw again last month when he was giving a presentation here in Kona, HI. Alex's experience as a contactee was both positive and negative, yet the overall lessons learned were good and he would like to live with his alien contacts.

As for Stefano, his contacts were mixed. The W56's were positive but their clones (CTRs) are not. His was a very different experience as was Maurico Carvello. Betty Hill, contactee from 1961 describes her contact as positive and invited them to come back. I've read of numermous contactees and their reports all of which were good. Unfortunately in the US, the primary focus of contact is the Greys and Reptilians and even those contacts have mixed viewpoints on positive and negative content. However, almost every report from an abuductee that is connected to the milab experiences are negative.

What I observe happening is how one statement that Greer made appears to color others opinions with regard to his entire experience with alien entities. Somehow that just seems unfair and unrealistic. In addition, Greer also has the name of the labs that produce the implants and that is why his focus was not on negative aliens but instead negative humans who would exploit aliens and humans alike. From my research and personal perspective based on conversations with contactees, I suspect negative aliens also exploit humans and other alien entities as well.

Steven, I was not referring to you specifically when I made my post. Dr. Greer has access to a whole lot more info then any of us could even possibly imagine. He's been involved with alien entities for 30 years and that is a long, long time to accumulate data. His focus is spiritual and in helping humanity. He works with those entities who are in alignment with his own inner spiritual core.

When I recently asked Paola Harris about this very issue and the conflict at the forum about positive and negative alien entities our discussion went into depth about the man and his focus. If one steps back and stops to think... who are the people one allows into ones life? If one can selectively decide who one wants in ones life which people does one choose to hang out with?

Dr. Greer has chosen to be surrounded by those entities who are in accord with his visions for humanity's evolution. He doesn't hang out with the other group because his attention is focused on the spiritual unfoldment of humankind.

For example, all of my close friends are deeply committed to a spiritual path and have been focused on this for years. Some are Buddhists, some practice Sant Mat, other are devout Christians and other Jews. Each path provides a means to a specific outcome... spiritual unfoldment. The commonality of all of them is a commitment to service-to-others and they practice this in a variety of professions. All of them walks their talk irrespective of how difficult and challenging that may be for them on a personal level. What shines through is their love of humanity and their love of God.

It is understandable that Steven Greer chooses not to focus on negative entities and instead hangs out with those alien entities that want to help humankind evolve. I'm also aware that he has made off the cuff remarks in the past that others didn't understand as well which also created conflict. He regrets when this happens and appears to be oblivious at times to how he comes across. It is also understandable that saying something that is misunderstood by others sometimes happen to the best of people even in the best of circumstances. Such is life.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:18 AM   #259
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A lot of posters here work for/with Greer. They are not here to learn or to share valuable knowledge. They are just doing their job.
Yeah, their view point is different than yours. So they must be part of the imaginary super structure of people that work for Greer. If you knew anything about what you are talking about you would know that Greer only has four people currently working with and for him. None of them have time to even participate in the CSETI forum, much less worry about what a couple of thousand people think on the Avalon forum.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:35 AM   #260
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Now, imagine for a moment if Steven Greer would admit that some ETs are not good and are actually making a secretive intervention on Earth. How his business would go, knowing how much he charges for training? He is smart enough to know it is not good to invite people in a training on how to make contact if you admit some ETs aren't good, worse they are here for a time...
I don't know why Greer says that all ETs are good.
It might be that his job is to spread the belief that all ETs are good.
Or it might be that he made up this story years ago and is worried that people will call him out if he changes his story.

One of his team members, who collaborated on a lively story about an ET encounter in class, later alluded in private that the story was made up.
Another of his team members privately called what Greer does "religion".

The CSETI class was a waste of time and money, but it was a learning experience.
It taught me how to be discerning in these times when there are a lot of "false prophets".
In addition, "whistle-blowers" who hold Greer in high-esteem are big red flags to me.

Love you all, even those of you who want to intimidate me!
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:42 PM   #261
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Many people make the mistake of overlaying their own "qualitative judgement" as far as Good/Bad polarity goes, when talking about the Positive/Negative orientation. They are not synonymous, anywhere but in your mind.

We have all, each and everyone, almost without exception, experienced lives where we explored a positive or negative orientation, by personal choice. (some of the "new kids" may be the exceptions, as they descended to 3D consciousness right now for the express purpose of helping us through this shift by acting as a buffer or shock absorber for the heaviest of the negative energies) It doesn't matter at all whether you can consciously recall having done so, or not, or whether you recall the personal choice aspect as an active decision of yours, or not.

There are beings around who are of a negative orientation, and some who are of a positive, and ideally, these would be realistically split in some semblance of balance, so a game can occur. You can't pretend to play around in the light without the perception of dark at the same time. Polarity requires balance. Not one side dominating the other.

It's not an easy thing to wrap your wits around at first, but it's a useful exercise to examine how negative experiences were of service to you. They always are, in some way. There is always something to be learned or gleened from these encounters, and since we are in fact sovereign individuals, and cannot be otherwise, except by personal choice, we have in fact lined up, in another sphere of our consciousness, for these negative experiences. Kind of like the line up for a roller coaster. Those things can be scary and very negative while being experienced, but we line up (some of us) just the same. You might see this differently than lining up to participate in some horrendously negative seeming experience, but when enough of your consciousness has been freed from behind the veil of forgetfulness, you find yourself there with your buddy how just recently murdered you according to the script you set up, and you clap him/her on the back and proclaim, "that was a good one !!!, but was it necessary to twist that knife the extra time???"

We're much less likely to carry out "negative" deeds when we recall our experience of them from the other end of the stick.

Many ET's are still fulfilling there agreed upon roles as the negative mirrors for us to see ourselves within. What we forget about, is the sacrifice they make personally in doing so, and the ultimate benefit to us of being able to have that experience in our own search for who we really are and what's really going on.

Good and Bad are judgements made from within polarized states of being. It's from the consciousness level of the playing field. And there is nothing wrong with that, but it should also be known that the game is essentially over now, and the wrap up is underway, and it will be harder and harder over the next few years to hold onto the ideas of good and bad as separate things. We've solved all the various polarities, and are now sitting here, wondering why so many are still pretending otherwise.

Transitions often have an overlapping of confusion where the old and new mix and neither is yet the set reality. But from my, and many others perspective, it's already a done deal and we exit this transition in a state of balance and harmony, from which we will build our new reality for the next phase of our ascension back to who we truly are.

I got from Greer's chat that this was what he was referring to. I don't believe he would deny that negative things happen where ET's are involved, but only that these things are not naturally good or bad. ET's of a currently negative orientation, may do negative things, but we should try to avoid the additive value judgement that this makes them bad. What if they were asked, and agreed, to do these things so we could grow? what if many of us experiencing some of these negative seeming situations actually agreed to or even asked for them on a different, occluded level of our OWN consciousness?

Time and progress made in ones personal processing of these things will tell. While many of us have already made the determination and seen for ourselves how this goes, and have thereby shifted our perspective to one of understanding and balance.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:00 PM   #262
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Default Re: Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!

Well said Fritz. Mahalo

Lisa, I truly am sorry that the team member you met was not committed to the truth as truth is what can stand on its own as time moves on. That person discredited his or herself and Dr. Greer, and I'm sure he would be saddened to learn they made up stories to impress others.

And I could also see that you would find the experience a waste of time and money as you were not yet ready for this. Meaning if you went with expectations of seeing sightings and alien entities and you were not inwardly emotionally/spiritually prepared for this to happen, your psyche would most likely prevent this from occurring for you.

When I had contact it was totally unexpected and quite a surprise. However, I experienced no fear during the experience and the situation was positive. ETs are telepathic. If they perceive someone is afraid they often won't make contact out of consideration for the person involved. Fear often prevents one from having these higher consciousness experiences with the alien entities that Greer is in contact with.

Dr. Greer does not have a job as he is not employed by anyone. He has a spiritual mission. This mission is not a religion although others may think of it as that if their own personal life experience is limited. The mission is Universal Brotherhood.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:26 PM   #263
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Steven Greer is confronted in a way you have not heard in any Coast to Coast or Camelot interview on the Paracast. You simply MUST listen to this interview.

http://www.theparacast.com/podcast/o...jeff-ritzmann/
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:57 PM   #264
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If you are interested in the "real" Steven Greer you MUST read the OUTSIDE Magazine article written in September 1994.

DO NOT be taken in by this man's nonsense. Educate yourself.

www.mufon-ces.org/docs/outsidemagazine.pdf
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:22 PM   #265
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You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:40 PM   #266
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You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.
Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.

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Old 02-11-2010, 06:06 PM   #267
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:13 PM   #268
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Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.
CSETI allowed a crew from CBS's 48 Hours "news show" to accompany an RMIT, March 20, 1994 to show its audience CSETI, doing real-time research in an area of known UFO/ET activity at Mount Popocatepetl in central Mexico. They got good footage. The story never aired.

The Story that 48 Hours Missed

In order to apply critical thinking skills, you must be willing to look at all sides of an issue. In the fall of 2008, I went, I saw, I was convinced. Direct experience always trumps written material, but not everyone can do that, so I offer the above as one example out of many.

By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:53 PM   #269
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By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,
Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:04 PM   #270
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Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:11 PM   #271
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Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...
I apologize. It was a bad joke.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:29 PM   #272
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Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.
Uhm, yeah, I read it. So?

Turn on your thinking cap for a second. "Disinfo Agent" would mean Greer is working for TPTB. For the most part, they want the UFO issue kept out of public view. Failing that, they want all people who have seen UFOs to be viewed as nut cases. And, they want people to be afraid of ETs if they do happen to believe in them. Is there another "disinfo" story line where Greer plays a part? Who does he work for? How does this article say anything about any of that? Not at all, as far as I can see. In fact, it seems to be placing Greer in the position of another UFO nut case who is only interested in money. A routine smear job. Worse things have been said about the man.

Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. In that respect, I can say Greer is not a fraud. I have nothing to say about any of his other dealings.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:37 PM   #273
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Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...
With friends like that....
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:22 PM   #274
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Lisa, I truly am sorry that the team member you met was not committed to the truth as truth is what can stand on its own as time moves on. That person discredited his or herself and Dr. Greer, and I'm sure he would be saddened to learn they made up stories to impress others.
Carol, why do you have to apologize for Greer's team?
Why do you have to speak for Greer?
Greer can speak for himself.
That person was collaborating with Greer on a shared ET experience, so Greer's part of that story was made-up, too.

trainedobserver, thank you so much for trying to help others from being misinformed.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:24 AM   #275
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...Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. ...
Your cult-like devotion to Greer is obvious. Hopefully others will not be drawn into his fantasy world by your ...example. Greer is one of the worst things that has happened to Ufology in quite a long time and the evidence is out there for those with the where-with-all to process it. The study of Ufology reveals many such cult figures in its past.

The parallels between UFO cults and religious cults are very revealing and an equally absorbing study. You would find Nick Redfern's new book Contactees illuminating. I certainly wish you no ill will. But at some point you will have to face the reality of the situation ... or perhaps not. Good luck.
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