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Old 03-10-2010, 07:20 AM   #26
Derek
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

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Originally Posted by Knowwheretorun View Post
No argument from me on the latter part, but to say that the bible was written by Rome is simply impossible, the catholic church didnt come in to existence until almost 400 years later, and before that time the Roman empire was enthusiastically trying to wipe Christianity and their bible off the face of the earth, they fed them to the lions for sport, lit them on fire for garden parties and such.

And the killings didnt stop after Rome became the catholic church either, they eventually killed more Christians than ever before, except their new reason was because the Christians wouldn't believe the whaky stuff that the Catholic Church believes, all this new stuff by the way is not in the bible (mary worship, priests, saints, popes, I could go on and on)

The thing that will really make you do a double take is when you realize that what the Illuminati was really doing with the Catholic Church is actually taking away the bible from the common man, (they said the masses in latin, they told people to only let the priests tell them what it said) they actually put it on the banned books list in the 1200's! many many people were burned alive during the inquisitions because they chose to believe these fragments of the bible that were still circulating and not the catholic church

No Im afraid you wont find any support for this idea in the real world, neither from atheists or theists.
Yes, I agree the christians had a strong philosophy of purity, devotion, love, forgivness, and understanding which threatened the whole power structure of rome. It's no surprise they kept it well hidden from the people for hundreds of years.

If the bible is really completely in tact (and id like to see your sources on this) does that mean it's all literally true? Perhaps there was secret knowledge they were hiding in metaphor so that these secrets couldn't be used by people with bad intent (and there is research to support this).

The disciples came to Him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" (Matthew 13:10). Jesus answered, “. . .The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them'” (Matthew 13:11, 15)
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:35 AM   #27
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THAT is the mindset of the real Illuminati, they have just got better at selling their own viewpoint to people, in subtle ways that make the people think they were the ones who came up with the idea to hate Christians, never stopping to consider it was sold to them from cradle to grave, from the schools to the tv.
Yes, but this is only happening in america and a few european countries

In south america for example (where a really good friend of mine was born raised and now lives and some family members of mine lived until a couple months ago) there are very strong christians and no tv specials about Darwinian evolution and no zietgiest. From what I understand this is also the case in Russia and of course the middle east (lets not forget what religion their trashing the most).

I don't think its one big conspiracy run from the vatican. I think there are many groups all with there own interests. This is why you hear things about the jesuits, illuminati, freemasons, NWO, thule society, neocons, etc and it all gets very confusing. All of this information is out there.

I agree with you that they are trying to make people hate christians. I also think they are trying to make christians hate athiests, muslims, abortion patients etc just listen to rush limbaugh, glenn beck, or alex jones.

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Old 03-10-2010, 07:53 AM   #28
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Chris White,
What a pleasure to meet you here. Several days ago, I made a decision to never come back but my soul did not want me to do it. Yesterday and today I have received the answer why I could not do it. Any way, one year ago, I have listened to your videos. However, I did not agree with you. It took me another year of hard research where I literally put my life on hold to seek the truth. One month ago, I saw you videos again, I have realized that I am on the same page with you. I was also guided to other people who shared the same view. I was so excited to notice that if we dig deep enough and ask hard questions we arrive at the same place. Chris thank you for your work, commitment, and passion for truth. What a life. My whole day I felt a deep pain and now I am singing with joy.

Love to you all,
t&i
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:09 AM   #29
Derek
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Theres one more thing I wanted to say on this subject.

I don't lie
I don't steal
I don't kill
I don't covet
I don't cheat
I don't in any way hurt or manipulate someone
I love others as myself
I forgive others unconditionally
I accept others as gifts
I don't drink or take intoxicants
I try to live as pure as possible
I am completely devoted to god
I spend most of my day in gratitude for the creator and all of creation
I nurture all of creation
I offer my service to help others very often
I respect, appreciate and use the teachings of christ
I pray every day and sometimes several times a day
I bless all of my food "in the name of jesus the christ of unconditional love"

The only difference is that I do these things out of love and a genuine desire as opposed to the majority of Christians (and I live in a very religious place, most of my family is fundamentalist) doing it because they think they have to or out of fear or guilt.

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Old 03-10-2010, 08:50 AM   #30
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Some more syncronisity ...... i was watching a gregg braden movie last night on here :
http://www.maya12-21-2012.com/zero-point.html
I like him , i think he has a good message ( even if not all the data is totally accurate) . As with all researchers , you just have to take what resonates with you and leave the rest .

John
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:57 AM   #31
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Hey knowwheretorun, I know exactly what your agenda is. You are an interloper and an intruder. You are not here to share knowledge but to spread disinformation. I've heard your radio programs and I've got your number. Spread your garbage elsewhere.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:47 PM   #32
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I would just like to make a couple of points if I may.

First I would like to say that I do like Gregg Bradens' work. I also see nothing wrong in Chris challenging him on some of his conclusions. We are after all looking for the truth. Chris has pointed out some things that are wrong in Gregg's conclusions and I applaud him for this.

A few of his points are a bit of a stretch however. A couple of the references that Gregg used were later proven to be misquoted or not accurate, but you can hardly blame Gregg for this as it was after his presentation, (or book was written).

Chris you infer that the bible is 100% accurate and all gospels that were not included were proven to be fraudulent. (for example The Gospel of Thomas) Well this is hard to prove either way also. What about all of the other text that was not included in the bible? The writings of Mary Magdelene for example. Is this fraudulent also?

I am not a biblical scholar, but I have trouble with your assumption on this one.

Anyways debate is good and we must research everything and not take any one person's conclusions as the only truth.

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Old 03-10-2010, 01:02 PM   #33
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What people mostly do not understand is, that the newage movemend is a part of the illuminati program. They are allready aware of what is going come out in the future!!
so they put in there players to pick it up where and when it is needed and keep the people in confusion.

So most of the so called spiritual leaders are trained by the illuminati for this and there good in what they do.
There always talke half truths and fill in the part that looks like it is right, but most people stop questioning this by then and think there wonderfull!!!

There here to make sure you do not progress futher to more understanding!!!
and keep you busy with sweet talk!!!!

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Old 03-10-2010, 01:09 PM   #34
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Even the "everything has been infiltrated by the illuminati" movement has been infiltrated by the illuminati!

When will it end!

AJ..
It wont dear Anchor, they have too much to lose if we awaken. It is very difficult to accept but we are in a multi-universal war that started in 2000, our minds struggle to grasp that. People does not know but Earth, not humanity, Earth is prime real estate for their plans. It has to do with stargates

Personally it took me many years and a lot of money to find the truth I was seeking, but it is again not everyones truth either and I respect that

Love
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:31 PM   #35
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Furthermore, Gregg Braden's messages are one of the most inspiring and uplifting on the internet today. What is there to debunk? Why would you want to debunk the positive and empowering ideas that he puts forth? Why would you want to argue with the fact that humanity might be entering a golden era of peace and enlightenment ?
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:59 PM   #36
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I would just like to make a couple of points if I may.

First I would like to say that I do like Gregg Bradens' work. I also see nothing wrong in Chris challenging him on some of his conclusions. We are after all looking for the truth. Chris has pointed out some things that are wrong in Gregg's conclusions and I applaud him for this.

A few of his points are a bit of a stretch however. A couple of the references that Gregg used were later proven to be misquoted or not accurate, but you can hardly blame Gregg for this as it was after his presentation, (or book was written).

Chris you infer that the bible is 100% accurate and all gospels that were not included were proven to be fraudulent. (for example The Gospel of Thomas) Well this is hard to prove either way also. What about all of the other text that was not included in the bible? The writings of Mary Magdelene for example. Is this fraudulent also?

I am not a biblical scholar, but I have trouble with your assumption on this one.

Anyways debate is good and we must research everything and not take any one person's conclusions as the only truth.

I was listening the other day, I think it was Ken Klein that said in his videos, not the C2C, that there are no original manuscripst for the Bible, not known anyway. It is possible that there may be in the Vatican but it is likely that they will not compare with the current editions of the Bible

There are also the Nag Hammadi and the apocrypha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha testaments that do contradict the official version

Basically, the Bible it is a minefield itself which is difficult to disentangle because one would need to speak Arameic oneself which very few do

Like with the Pyramids being dated to certain time, not to contradic the history of creation in the Bible, there have been many manipulations

The bottom line, Christianity is not a religion is Kristiac living, it comes from the first word of creation Ka Ra Ya Sa Ta Ha La KRYSTH LA which implies that one is aligned with Source and the natural laws of creation, like the law of cause, effect and consequence

All humans are Krysthla beings until the lose their inner light to less than 30 pct and embrace the fallen ones that are in government

Now do we really know what has been hidden from us?
We know sciences are lieing, and so most of officialdom

Where the new age information is comming from? Ancient texts? who's ancient texts?

It is a minefield and I wish I could say all is hunky dory but it isn't. Religions are not exception, they hold part truth but it is necessary to dig what is what for much has been given that is in accordance to the "great work" of the Masons too

All that can I say is we are being compell to use our discernment and to seek our own cellular memory for the way home before we get those chips

I respect all ways of thinking as there are many that hold a piece of the puzzle. Most people do what they do with good intention not knowing they are being manipulated

Seek the real sciences of creation, how things were really made, who made them, make the difficult question: I want the truth now! and the thruth will come, all you need to do is ask

Knowwheretorun, welcome, thank you for your effort and imput, I know that you have some valid points. I am not a church goer, I am not into organized religion anymore nor againt it. We are all sovereing beings if we chose to be and we do not need to give our power away to other beings. We were created by Source as Source not less from my perspective.

Love to all
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:53 PM   #37
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Furthermore, Gregg Braden's messages are one of the most inspiring and uplifting on the internet today. What is there to debunk? Why would you want to debunk the positive and empowering ideas that he puts forth? Why would you want to argue with the fact that humanity might be entering a golden era of peace and enlightenment ?
Agree with your post, yiolas

We all know GB is still a human and is in no way perfect.

What matters is the core message and not, "the devil is in the details".

As for me, and I suggest for everyone else here to go by this Scripture verse:
Quote:
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Contemporary English Version)

21. Put everything to the test. Accept what is good
22. and don't have anything to do with evil.
~ Love & Light ~
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:04 PM   #38
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I was listening the other day, I think it was Ken Klein that said in his videos, not the C2C, that there are no original manuscripst for the Bible, not known anyway. It is possible that there may be in the Vatican but it is likely that they will not compare with the current editions of the Bible

There are also the Nag Hammadi and the apocrypha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha testaments that do contradict the official version

Basically, the Bible it is a minefield itself which is difficult to disentangle because one would need to speak Arameic oneself which very few do


Love to all
Let's not forget also the Dead Sea Scrolls
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:06 PM   #39
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Let's not forget also the Dead Sea Scrolls
Hi Truthseekerdan, I don't know if I am mistaken but I think the Nag Hammadi scrolls and the Dead Sea scrolls maybe the same?

Love
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:08 PM   #40
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Agree with your post, yiolas

We all know GB is still a human and is in no way perfect.

What matters is the core message and not, "the devil is in the details".

As for me, and I suggest for everyone else here to go by this Scripture verse:

Quote:
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Contemporary English Version)

21. Put everything to the test. Accept what is good
22. and don't have anything to do with evil.

Thanks for your words of wisdom truthseekerdan.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:15 PM   #41
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Hi Truthseekerdan, I don't know if I am mistaken but I think the Nag Hammadi scrolls and the Dead Sea scrolls maybe the same?

Love
Here ya go

During the middle years of the twentieth century two important but very different collections of ancient religious texts were unearthed in Palestine and Egypt: the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library. Visitors to the Gnostic Society Library often do not understand the distinction between these two discoveries. Since our Library collection contains a vast amount of material related specifically to the Nag Hammadi texts (including complete translations), a brief description of the two discoveries might be useful.

What are popularly called The Dead Sea Scrolls End view of one of the larger scroll fragments from the Dead Sea collectionconsist of a very large number of scrolls – most poorly preserved and many surviving only as tiny scraps – discovered in a series of eleven caves near Qumran and the Dead Sea beginning around 1947. Over 800 separate texts of several divergent types are now recognized among this find. The scrolls date from the "intertestamental period" – a period ranging from about 250 BCE to 100 CE, the epoch after textual formation of the "Old Testament" but still before the formation of Christianity and rabbinical Judaism.

In contrast, The Nag Hammadi Library was discovered in upper Egypt in 1945 and is comprised of 13 ancient leather- bound books (or codices) containing in total 55 texts. The leather-bound codices found at Nag HammadiThe codices were all hidden together, probably around 390 CE, within a large, sealed jar. After 1,500 years buried in the Egyptian desert, they were unearthed in remarkably good condition. The texts in the Nag Hammadi Library date from the first two or three centuries of the Christian era and primarily represent previously lost or unknown Christian sacred writings – writings often described as "Gnostic" in character. Notably included among the texts was an edition of the Gospel of Thomas, a text perhaps older than the four known canonical gospels. While the Dead Sea Scrolls received wide publicity in the first decades after their discovery, the Nag Hammadi Library has only more recently attracted public notice.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:16 PM   #42
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Thank you Aztar for the clarification, I was not sure. Your post is very informative

Love
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:26 PM   #43
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Given enough time and proper wording , anything and anyone can be debunked, The fact that an Alien from alpha signias 20 can tell his fellow scientists that the earth does not exist simply by the fact that he can not find it on his iddie biddie telescope..
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #44
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Ever since I saw this post on the "Bye Bye Whistleblowers." thread, I've been curious to know more about the motivation and backers of Gregg Braden (and Drunvalo Melchizedek):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen View Post

I used to think I should try to save people from certain "negative" experiences.

Then I realized some of my most valuable lessons were in spending years studying something only to find out I'd been scammed. Nobody can tell you the lessons that you came here to experience. Who am I to deprive someone of following the path they came here to follow and learn from?

I spent many years reading and believing sweet lies prepared for us by TPTB. I'm tending to believe now what Don Croft and Don Bradley have revealed about the "New Age Stable" people listed below (plus many more not listed there). There is also the Tavistock Institute of social engineering that John Coleman has written about.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHI...howtopic=14331

"Six or seven years before we met he had come to understand that the Great White Brotherhood is a satanic organization and that, essentially, everything and everyone he believed passionately in was false. An Illuminati oracle has to be kept from this truth so that his master can send him out into the ethers like a kite to retrieve information that the spiritually degraded master can't access. The Great White Brotherhood uses this retrieved information and it's subsidiaries, including the CIA and British MI6, to create disinformation and thus infiltrate and then corrupt the legitimately progressive movements and otherwise-discerning, inquisitive individuals in the world.

"He began opposing them instead of supporting them and for years his former masters gave him a lot of slack, even allowing him to go on the lecture circuits with conspiracy authors and militia leaders and tell the public what he knew.

"Torkum Sassarian had died right before DB woke up, by the way. He showed me a photo of a gathering of New Age gurus, with Sassarian in their midst, taken in 1987 on the grounds of the Masonic Temple in Sedona, Arizona. During that conference they were designing the mind control agenda that would be called, 'the Harmonic Convergence.' Present were DB, Sassarian, Gregg Braden, Drunvalo Melchizedek, Jean Houston, Shirley MacLaine, James Twyman and a dozen other people whose names I didn't recognize, including Goru Adachi, from Japan, whom DB mistakenly assumed was Ken Adachi, who is an Italian guy from Brooklyn."
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:19 PM   #45
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Let's not forget also the Dead Sea Scrolls
Ok well lets take a look at both the gnostic gospels found at Nag Hammadi and the dead sea scrolls.

These are two things that I used to have a vague notion somehow disproved the bible although I want quite sure how. After all you could watch everything that Braden, or a similar "teacher", has ever put out on the DSS and still be left with only vague impressions of what was found, and there is a good reason not to tell the whole story from his perspective...

The story of the dead sea scrolls is to this day something that I want to do an extensive project on at some point, I have already done one research project on it here for audio but the story is so juicy and there is such a lack of understanding, that I feel I should dig further, but perhaps if I present a basic outline here it will encourage one of you to pic up where I left off.

Basically when the scrolls were found, the main ones like the Isaiah Scroll were sold to Jewish people though antique dealers, this is significant because this was all played out over the backdrop of the 1948 and 1967 wars in Israel.

After word got out of their discovery John D Rockefeller Jr, who I like to call "Mr. New World Order", (just have a look of what he did with his life to see why I say that ) swooped in and bought every available scroll, they wouldnt sell him the early ones, although he tried very hard to get them, and he funded any additional expeditions to retrieve more scrolls from the caves (thereby owning any further finds). The next fifty years were very very interesting.

Basically all the scrolls that Rockefeller didnt own, were immediately published and it proved that the old testament had been copied without errors for the 600 year gap from the masoretic texts to the scrolls, it was also significant because they clearly dated before the time of Christ therefore containing hard evidence that the prophecies of Jesus were in fact written well before his time.

remember there was a war going on, and Rockefeller was on the arab side of this conflict, and the Rockefeller museum where the scrolls he found and or bought were kept (called the scrollery) was in Jordan, as a result Rockefeller had no Jewish people to translate these scrolls so he hired mostly catholics and a few odd choices, like John Allegro.

The main thing to understand here is that there was no publication of the scrolls that Rockefeller owned for 50 YEARS! but what there WAS was a campaign to put Allegro, on the pay of JD Rock, on BBC radio saying things like: the scrolls (which no one would ever be allowed to see until he was long dead) said things like that there was a guy called the teacher of righteousness in the scrolls who Jesus was just a copy off, now all of Allegros team members wrote a letter to the times saying that he was lying, but it appeared (because they were Catholics) that they were only saying this to save face. At the end of the day, no one could know who was telling the truth and who was lying because Rockefeller wouldn't let scholars look at the scrolls he owned.

Until..the 90s when a woman who was commissioned to take detailed photos of the Rockefeller scrolls way back then died and she left the roll of film to a university, which published them, and for the first time gave the public a chance to check allegros work, they found that he was wrong, which means that Rockefeller paid Allegro to spread this anti Jesus lie that despite the fact its been recently disproved is still obviously alive and well. They also found that they had created a concordance within the first year or so meaning that they could have published the material the whole time!

To sum up the Dead sea scrolls are one of the greatest finds in the world and they display that the texts hasnt been changed over the years, they also give us a intimate look into the lives of kind of whaky, but veracious reading sect of Jewish people that beforehand were only referenced.

here is a link to a timeline that should get someone started on this search
http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss_timeline.htm

In regard to the Gnostic Gospels, it is probably due to the way info is presented to us by these "teachers" that we believe what we do about them, I would encourage anyone to get involved with the debates about the dating of the texts found in Egypt (Nag Hammadi) you will find that "Thomas" is the best candidate for an early date, and that not even the propents claim that the people they were named after wrote them, and all the actual scholars that I am aware of (on either side) suggest that it is from the beginning of the second century at the earliest as far as archeology goes. You will find people that date it earlier than that, but take notice of how they accomplish this, it is usually done by saying that because it is a.) less well written, and therefore the predecessor to the gospels, or b.) that its writing style is in a one liner or proverb format which they say must mean it is first. But those explanations dont work with even basic logic, never mind archeology, for instance, in literary terms it is usually a masterpeice that is created theby creating a genre, and it is later copied with less degrees of success, and as far as the proverb format, it was a style that was used for many centuries before and after.

All that to say that if you have been dan browned into thinking that the gnostic Gospels are older that that the real ones, you are believing something that requires more faith that you might think.

This was covered in my video Council of Nicaea myth debunked

Also available in spanish El mito del Conciio de Nicea refutado Thanks to a new spanish friend of mine.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:38 PM   #46
Knowwheretorun
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Chris White,
What a pleasure to meet you here. Several days ago, I made a decision to never come back but my soul did not want me to do it. Yesterday and today I have received the answer why I could not do it. Any way, one year ago, I have listened to your videos. However, I did not agree with you. It took me another year of hard research where I literally put my life on hold to seek the truth. One month ago, I saw you videos again, I have realized that I am on the same page with you. I was also guided to other people who shared the same view. I was so excited to notice that if we dig deep enough and ask hard questions we arrive at the same place. Chris thank you for your work, commitment, and passion for truth. What a life. My whole day I felt a deep pain and now I am singing with joy.

Love to you all,
t&i
Wow thats so great, if you have any questions about anything email me any time. nowheretorun1984@gmail.com
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:46 AM   #47
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Even the "everything has been infiltrated by the illuminati" movement has been infiltrated by the illuminati!

When will it end!

AJ..
and what will be even more strange is in the end they'll turn out being the good that led us forward through confusion by by forcing us to understand beyond the deceptions they created for our lessons...
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:19 AM   #48
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Thank you Chris. I will and I do have questions. But now I need to take some time off before I get back on track again. I am glad that I did not scare you with Polish expression of passion for truth. Well, I was so thrilled to see you here.
Talk to you soon.

Love,
t&i
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:47 PM   #49
mntruthseeker
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seashore View Post
Ever since I saw this post on the "Bye Bye Whistleblowers." thread, I've been curious to know more about the motivation and backers of Gregg Braden (and Drunvalo Melchizedek):
I want to thank you for sharing Karens message. Its as it should be, with no one telling us which lessons we need to learn.

A brilliant important message one that all need to heed by

I listened to the videos and I happen to appreciate all that Gregg Braden has brought to me. He is very inspirational and that feeling didnt change today.

I believe the bible has many misquotes indeed ! Like Gregg says certain sentences altered with much left out. Of course its been rewrittened hundreds of times with a sole purpose

Sometimes I wonder what the motive behind "debunkers" as Im sure some are very worried about what we know

As far as it goes, I have to go along with the fact that anyone can say its a lie but if it feels right to you, then move one and no one should try to persuade you to not. Forcefull pushing of others is not acceptable anywhere. I think we all had enought with that all of our lives.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:28 AM   #50
shiva777
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Default Re: Gregg Braden Debunked

people get pretty upset when their sugar-coated new-agey preachers get challenged and especially when those challenges are exposing blatant deception.....so expect a LOT of people to get really upset about religion and new age ,especially after 2012,and see it from an observer stance as a NECESSARY part of awakening...good for you for speaking your truth about GB and the rest
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