Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

[sunnyrap]

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

[MMe M]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

You would do far better to order your generator set up
for running natural gas. Propane requires larger jets since
it is a larger molecule than methane.

When you start burning the biogas in an internal combustion engine you need to scrub it first to remove
contaminants that corrode engines such as sulphur. It isn't a big deal but it is an extra step with extra complexity and another chance for adding problems.
This is why this idea is best suited for the community level with dedicated workers tending the process.

At the level of the small holding farmer (me) the best
solution is burn the gas directly and utilize the heat for
getting work done. Remember the KISS principle. The
goal is simplicity. Theoretically elegant, technically simple. We are, after all, neo-luddites. Occam's razor
rules.

Ok natural gas. I was a little confused as to which one is most like methane in nature. Everybody uses propane here. We converted our 92+ furnace for propane when it was new and we were installing it. It was simple, just different jets is all we had to change. The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that the ones for residential use arent meant for continuous run, therefore not heavy duty. Im not really sure which way would be the best economically and maintenance wise. Heating water to turn turbines or just buying a continuos run model.

Umm..... ya lost me on the last part but thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by MMe M

The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that the ones for residential use arent meant for continuous run, therefore not heavy duty. :

No generator is intended for continuous run. Some are
stouter than others. The rule of thumb is you buy the
best you can afford, then use it as little as possible.
So the question becomes how do you store the generated
power. Batteries, water towers, hydrogen, and gasoline
all have one thing in common. They store potential energy for use later when you need it. Your method of
storage depends on the route you take. I wish Henry
or perhaps an engineer were about to explain it better
then I can. Storing the energy for when you need it is
the weak link in the chain. Batteries are okay. Kerosene
is better as a storage medium with a much longer shelf
life. At the moment, storage is the rate limiting step in
my personal scheme of things. So we have settled for
large quantities of kerosene and propane till we can come up with something better.

One really intriguing storage medium is the kinetic battery. This is a flywheel spun at high speed
by your engine. From what I have read, a flywheel the size of a refrigerator buried in the ground
could power your home. There are still technical issues to overcome. Using the earth to store your
energy as in geothermal is another route. But my favorite is Stan Deyo's work based on research by
Henry T Moray. In a nutshell, a tribolumenscent compound turns heat or light into electricity. Stan Deyo is basically talking about using the universe as your storage medium.....I know, I know, way
off topic and absolutely pie in the sky. We would all love to jam a stick into the earth and get all of
our heat light and power from it. {Deep sigh} Biogas steam or wind is real. You can touch it and you can use it right now if you are mechanically clever.

Originally Posted by MMe M

Umm..... ya lost me on the last part but thanks for the info.

Just a reference to our personal lifestyle.

[bosr]

Just a thought, but would it be practical to build a still for making alcohol and using that to power your generator and such?

Alcohol Can Be A Gas

Originally Posted by doodah

Looking for creative ideas here1

So that leaves? Anybody with true alternative energy ideas out there?
.

Oil lamps burn brite with vegetable oil
But what you have against solar power?

Or do like the old days...

Get up with the Sun, go to bed when it gets dark

[MMe M]

[QUOTE=Baggywrinkle;32570]No generator is intended for continuous run. Some are
stouter than others. The rule of thumb is you buy the
best you can afford, then use it as little as possible.



Weel, actually the military does have continuous run generators with hardened circuits. It just isnt cost effective for me to buy, which is most certainly a contradiction in terms. If I cant afford it, neither should my government.

[doodah]

Zorgon -- I have nothing against solar as an intermediate alternate power source. But solar is intended to produce electricity to run current-design electrical devices. If electromagnetic flux on this planet leads to all current-design electrical devices going kaput, then this kind of solar is dead-ended. I'm trying to think beyond that dead-end.

MMe M -- The military does have, I'm pretty sure, just about all the alternative tech we could use here. Whether we'll ever get it is the question. In the meantime, I kind of like the glow worm excrement idea, but we don't have those larvae here in North America, at least not where I live. But maybe a lightning bug farm idea could be developed. As kids we caught them in a jar, but they didn't live very long, and they are seasonal to the summer mating season, so that would require some exploration.

Baggywrinkle -- Tesla was working on the "stick in the ground" universal energy field, free energy, back in the 1920s and all that happened was the military stopped him and used whatever they could of his ideas as weapons. All those alternative-energy people who have been killed in the past 60 years also had free or near-free energy inventions. Maybe some of this will emerge after everything collapses.

Also, remember Leedskallen? The guy who built the "coral castle" in Florida without any kind of machinery except a wooden tower of some kind, lifting enormously heavy blocks of coral by himself, without helpers? He said he had rediscovered the secret of how the pyramids were built, and refused to share any of his research with the military when they approached him. So they didn't get it, but unless somebody can rediscover what he rediscovered (and he did it through research at public libraries!), this secret is lost once again!

Originally Posted by doodah

Zorgon -- I have nothing against solar as an intermediate alternate power source. But solar is intended to produce electricity to run current-design electrical devices. If electromagnetic flux on this planet leads to all current-design electrical devices going kaput, then this kind of solar is dead-ended. I'm trying to think beyond that dead-end.

The Life Blood of the Universe is Plasma Energy... it is constantly in 'flux'. It is the source of ALL electrical energy... Just were did you think electricity comes from? Look at a generator on a dam... Water falls down a height... the natural force of gravity (free energy) that simply turns a turbine... this turbine turns a magnet which 'generates' electricity... which we use. But where does this electricity come FROM?

You have seen the power of a lightning bolt... this is PLASMA energy (and yes we call it electricity) but WHERE does the electricity come from?

Water molecules rub together in the air and create friction which generates static electricity... just like when you walk across a carpet.. When there is enough in the air... a small streamer seeks ground... Then the BIG bolt of PLASMA follows the trail up from the ground and you have a tremendous discharge we call lightning (free energy)

Did you know that one side of your house current is the EARTH? That is why its called a 'ground'

Did you know that if you take a simple copper wire... say 12 miles long... and drag it through space at orbital speed of 17,500 MPH you generate electricity the same way you do at the dam? Noving a wire through a magnetic field... Only in the space situation you create a LOT of electricity... so much so that it fried the STS 75 tether and continued generating PLASMA long after it broke free... the most famous continous arc event in mankinds history

You talk of wanting a free energy device...

TH Moray had the answer... he was refused a patent because he could not explain to the patent clerk WHERE the electricity came from... so was refused
Later his machine was destroyed...

Nikola Tesla had the answer. Few people know him, yet without him your car ignition (tesla coil) would not work and your home electricity would not exist.

He had the answer to wireless power, built an electric motor for a car that used transmitted energy via radio waves... but Westinghouse asked "Where can I put the Meter?" and that was the end of that.

Yet today those same radio waves (radio was invented bt Tesla and stolen by Marconi) cook your food in a microwave... and MIT has announced that they have rediscovered wireless power transmission (Only 100 years later... not bad )

Did you know that your body runs on electricity? Wonder why they call blood PLASMA?

Like I said PLASMA is the life blood of the Universe..

See all those beautiful Nebulae out there from Hubble? Those are PLASMA remains of an exploded Star... we know that energy travels forever, or we would not be able to see the stars billions of light years away (and billions of years into the past) so all the energy of every star that ever exploded in the history of the universe is stilll out there waiting for us to wake up and tap it

Anyone that tells you otherwise does NOT have your best interests at heart

Originally Posted by doodah

Tesla was working on the "stick in the ground" universal energy field, free energy, back in the 1920s and all that happened was the military stopped him and used whatever they could of his ideas as weapons.

Our electricity comes to us through wires and 'returns' to ground...

Tesla's secret is that it works better in reverse

Tesla himself created the weapon. It is this that cause his problems.. his idea was a beam weapon... a weapon so powerful that it would end all wars... but he forgot that the PTB do not wish to end wars

War clouds were again darkening Europe. On 11 July 1934 the headline on the front page of the New York Times read, "TESLA, AT 78, BARES NEW 'DEATH BEAM.'" The article reported that the new invention "will send concentrated beams of particles through the free air, of such tremendous energy that they will bring down a fleet of 10,000 enemy airplanes at a distance of 250 miles..." Tesla stated that the death beam would make war impossible by offering every country an "invisible Chinese wall."

http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_wendwar.html

Originally Posted by doodah

He said he had rediscovered the secret of how the pyramids were built, and refused to share any of his research with the military when they approached him. So they didn't get it, but unless somebody can rediscover what he rediscovered (and he did it through research at public libraries!), this secret is lost once again!

His secret is encoded in his work at the Castle. It lies in Sacred Geometry and Sonic Levitation.

The ancient esoteric societies will tell you that the Pyramids were built using sound frequencies to levitate the blocks into place. The Tibetan Monks do this with chanting

Before anyone says this is BS and not possible...

Acoustic Levitation Chamber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94KzmB2bI7s

Warning turn down your volume so you don't float away

Ultrasonic Levitation

This one is silent... but shows the level of control possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4exO4CuoSU

The Possible coming Pole Shift? Don't worry HAARP will have us covered

Originally Posted by doodah

Candles -- old fashioned way, made from beeswax, but that's HONEYBEES, in short supply. New way is Parafin, but that's an oil derivative, petroleum. I don't want to support that industry in any way.

How about supporting the farmers then?

SOY WAX

http://www.cajuncandles.com/soy-wax.html

[sunnyrap]

Most solutions discussed here are on a personal level. I think it would be more productive to think on a community level. We have an existing setup that has worked quite well. How can your part of the grid be set up to keep giving power to the community? Where's your power coming from now? How can at least a percentage of it be kept up, should be the question, imo. I liked 'Mad Max' movies too, for the adventure of it, but I'd like them to stay interesting movies, not become real life.

[doodah]

Zorgon, thanks. I was referring to the George Green/Bill Deagle/Michael St. Claire statements about electromagnetic disturbances, or changes, which I called "flux" in a non-scientific manner, that would inactivate all currently designed electrical devices, an EMP-type event produced by the movement of our planet through what they are calling "energetic space," or some call a "photon belt", as this planet approaches galactic center.

Right, Leedskallen tapped sound energy. I don't know how the acoustic levitation chamber works, but does it require common era design electrical devices? Leedskallen certainly had electrical power available to him, through the power grid, although I don't know if he used that. Makes me wonder how the Egyptians might have generated the sound they used. Chanting is not a thing I associate with ancient Egyptian culture, but who knows?

The point in discussing Tesla, Leedskallen, and Moray, etc., is to toss around some ideas about whether these non-standard approaches can be used in some way by non-scientific folk like most of us on this thread appear to be. If the grid goes down, and most motors and currently existing electrical devices won't work anyhow no matter how they're powered, I'd like to have some alternatives in place. Methane is an available alternative that can produce heat and light.

Re candles and supporting the farmers: I asked this question further up the thread: You buy up lots of candles and use them up. Then what? How do you make soy wax? I'm not aware that vegetable oils were a common product in earlier cultures, except maybe olive oil. That's why they used lard, animal fat, whale oil, for similar purposes, such as oil lamps. This is still do-able to some extent if animal fat is kept and stored for that purpose.

Sunnyrap: I guess I have been thinking in terms of the smallholder, and that perhaps individual residences having their own sources of power might be more doable than huge power grids in future small communities. Cities will be a problem from every angle.

Originally Posted by bosr

Just a thought, but would it be practical to build a still for making alcohol and using that to power your generator and such?

Alcohol Can Be A Gas

I've done extensive research in this area and have a ton
of stuff on the topic including the plans to Robert Warren's Charles 803 reflux still.

I've not done anything with it - yet.

Alcohol is just another energy storage medium. It works.
Problem is, it takes energy input from some source to concentrate the ethanol to the point of being useful as
a fuel for an internal combustion engine (E-85 or higher)

This takes heat. Either solar or from some other source.

Biodiesel would make more sense in the long run. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had 100 acres of rape seed and an oil press.

Instead of going to the trouble of making the ethanol why not just build a woodgas generator. It would take
the same amount of effort and would be functional faster.

Ultimately you are always converting light/heat from the
sun into some other form which is usable by your machines. One day perhaps we can be efficient enough
to use the sun's output directly in an efficient way.

Storing the energy from the sun for when you need it is the key. Hold that thought, and remember the name
Daniel Nocera!

http://www.boston.com/business/artic...y_have_answer/

Originally Posted by sunnyrap

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

Strontium and europium, along with zinc oxide compounds all store ambient light, then release it over time. The advantage of the first two is the amount of light released and duration of release blow the older zinc compounds out of the water.

Everyone has had a watch with luminous hands. It was
great for perhaps and hour or two, then barely visible.
The new compounds are BRIGHT all night long
to the night adjusted eye.

Strontium and europium are not self luminating and are not radioactive like
tritium or radium.

[whitecrow]

Consider building a Minto wheel. You can Google this...here's a site with good info: http://www.eagle-research.com/fenerg...to/minto1.html

This would make a great community project. Minto wheels turn slowly but develop incredible torque which is multiplied as the diameter of the wheel is increased. There is at least one YouTube video of a Minto wheel in operation, however this is a sloppily-built wheel that barely functions.

The secret, it appears to me, is to determine the optimum number of flasks at the circumference, and to pay close attention to the bearings and transmission that will convert torque to power. Not a perpetual motion machine, but close.

[granny]

Originally Posted by doodah

Thanks, Peace of mIne. I live in what used to be reliable farming country, but rain has definitely become a problem. Last year we had two solid months with no rain, in July and August, in the middle of the growing season. Many farmers couldn't grow enough hay to get their animals through the winter. So, yes, it's getting more difficult in many areas.

I was thinking about my wind-up kitchen timer and my wind-up clock. These work very nicely non-electrically. Is a hand-pump flashlight something similar? Anybody know how hand-pump flashlights work?

Thanks for the Foxfire reference. Many hours of research ahead!

Putting forth positive intent to create a completely dull and boring October.

Terrific thread

Instead of "wind up" for lights and radios ... think "crank"
I don't have crank lights, but do have shake lights ... some better than others, but the crank radio is great.

... am doing same as above

Granny

[MMe M]

Originally Posted by doodah

Zorgon -- I have nothing against solar as an intermediate alternate power source. But solar is intended to produce electricity to run current-design electrical devices. If electromagnetic flux on this planet leads to all current-design electrical devices going kaput, then this kind of solar is dead-ended. I'm trying to think beyond that dead-end.

MMe M -- The military does have, I'm pretty sure, just about all the alternative tech we could use here. Whether we'll ever get it is the question. In the meantime, I kind of like the glow worm excrement idea, but we don't have those larvae here in North America, at least not where I live. But maybe a lightning bug farm idea could be developed. As kids we caught them in a jar, but they didn't live very long, and they are seasonal to the summer mating season, so that would require some exploration.

Baggywrinkle -- Tesla was working on the "stick in the ground" universal energy field, free energy, back in the 1920s and all that happened was the military stopped him and used whatever they could of his ideas as weapons. All those alternative-energy people who have been killed in the past 60 years also had free or near-free energy inventions. Maybe some of this will emerge after everything collapses.

Also, remember Leedskallen? The guy who built the "coral castle" in Florida without any kind of machinery except a wooden tower of some kind, lifting enormously heavy blocks of coral by himself, without helpers? He said he had rediscovered the secret of how the pyramids were built, and refused to share any of his research with the military when they approached him. So they didn't get it, but unless somebody can rediscover what he rediscovered (and he did it through research at public libraries!), this secret is lost once again!

Ill just adress my dumbed down glow worm answer. The government auctions surplus equipment all the time, hence I wouldnt have made the statement without seeing one online. It was not near enough to me logistically to be feasible and still not cheap enough but a girl can dream, cant she? As for the glow worms, we have them here in Michigan and ill send you some of their leavings as soon as you say where. I hear they glow best when left on a door step and set on fire, but ill leave that part of the experiment up to you.

[Realview]

For daytime use -- there's a guy (I think on You tube) that effectively lights his home but poking clear liter water bottles (full of water and some chlorine) through the roof and letting them hand down half way. Kind of like the solar tubes or sky lights. Not sure what happens when it rains but the water magnifies the light and it works pretty good.

Other than that, I suppose a large mirrors like in the old Egyptian tomb movies or lots of windows or setup your kitchen near the windows or cook outside under a canopy.

At night crank or shake flash lights?

There are various generator systems but they require research, the right skills and time.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zlinM1wAI5U
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tKuHFNQCMto

That's all I've got.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Zilch electricity required. Appropriate depending on the climate and water availablity:

Clay Pot Fridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator

How to make one. http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Pot-in-a-Pot-Refrigerator

Very humid here in the NT of Australia six months of the year. But gonna give this a try during the dry season.

[EarthBowl]

SOLAR Cooking

Here is a link to site that have info on solar ovens. You dont need to buy one... you can use a cardboard box and aluminum foil to make one. no electricity needed!
http://www.solarcooking.org/plans/
If you have the money....... and want a longer lasting option
http://www.eartheasy.com/sun_oven.htm

I think you could make a more permanent oven using that silver (aluminun?) flashing they use on roofs...

[Carmen]

My family and friends are planning to build a mini hydro. It will supply three houses and the excess will be fed back into the national grid and we be paid for what we feed back into the grid. Hopefully this will pay for the scheme and for maintenance. My house is the only one that is on the grid currently. I also have to rearrange my house to make it more energy efficient.

Cheers

Carmen

[Carol]

A well know chef told me about this book which I ordered from amazon. The author of this book lives in Florida and was without electricity for weeks.

The Storm Gourmet: A Guide to Creating Extraordinary Meals Without Electricity (Paperback) $9.95

This book proves that, with a little planning and minimal effort, you can eat surprisingly well during power outages. In hurricane season, this book is a crucial resource. It can be used for any emergency or anytime you are without power. And you can use this book for quick, easy meals anytime, especially for camping or for quick summer meals. You will find shopping lists for creating the ultimate emergency pantry; more than 70 recipes using nonperishable and shelf-stable food items; suggested menus for quick, well-balanced meals; a practical guide to growing a storm-proof herb garden; advice, tips, and anecdotes about weathering the storm. The 12-page color insert displays the colorful and appetizing—yes, gourmet!—meals that can be prepared from canned goods with some fresh ingredients.

The Storm Gourmet: A Guide To Creating Extraordinary Meals Without Electricity is a unique cookbook to creating nutritious gourmet meals without a heat source or refrigeration. A valuable resource for when power is down, when one is without a refrigerator, or simply when one wants to use less energy, The Storm Gourmet is packed with shopping lists for the ideal emergency pantry, more than 70 recipes using nonperishable and shelf-stable food items, suggested menus for balanced meals, a guide to growing a storm-proof herb garden, and tips for weathering storms. Dishes to prepare include Greek-style Bean Salad, Savory Ham with Dijon Cream, Black Forest Tarts, Mock Sangria, and much more. An index for quick and easy reference complements this excellent guide to living healthy and well under simple conditions.

[Carol]

Another couple items worth having on hand are these camper type gas stove and gas oven.

$229.99 Camp Chef Outdoor Camp Oven
Item:IK-518463


This Camp Oven has just what every camp needs to enjoy superior eating in the outdoors – compact size, portability and raw cooking power. Don't let its compact size fool you. The Outdoor Camp Oven features more than 14,000 total BTU of cooking energy. Twin burners and a spacious oven have plenty of power to get your cooking/baking done the way you like it, right there in camp. The unit uses a disposable 1-lb. propane tank, or it can be adapted to use a 20-lb. tank for increased cooking time. The range's dual burners put out a whopping 5,300 BTU per burner. The oven heats at 3,500 BTU per hour with a maximum temperature of 400°F. Two oven racks allow you to cook your main meal and dessert at once. An oven thermometer helps keep heat constant and monitors your meal's cooking progress. The matchless burner igniters mean you won't have to fumble for a lighter or matches while in the field. The stove's folding lid and carry handles were designed with portability in mind, so it's easy to get into and out of camp. Stainless steel construction resists corrosion for years of cooking without problems. Nonstick enamel cooking surface makes cleaning swift and easy with just soap and water.
Top burner dimensions: 12" x 21".
Oven dimensions: 16"W x 11"D x 8-1/4"H.
Weight: 35 lbs.


and

Gas Stove Propane Range Three Burners
Item# 11815
$46.99
http://store.homevillage.us
Dimensions: 31" x 12" x 4"

Three Burners


and

Gas Stove Propane Range Three Burners
Item# 11815
$46.99
http://store.homevillage.us
Dimensions: 31" x 12" x 4"

Three Burners
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-86980199984851_2052_2338
Sturdy Construction.
You may use any standard propane tank, you can use a BBQ tank or larger.
Company: Home Village
Free Shipping