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Old 09-24-2008, 12:27 PM   #1
d3stined
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Default if the internet died!!

Hi

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on where and how we would be able to get information like this if the internet went down...
the internet is the only thing that is keeping us connected and updated with information...
im thinking of puting together what i find to be the most important posts and printing hard copies just incase... any other ideas

cheers
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:38 PM   #2
Tuza
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Is it really going to be pulled because it came out of the US, if it did then that would mean that martial law had been implemented then would it not. Is that what I am understanding.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #3
Nik
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3stined View Post
Hi

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on where and how we would be able to get information like this if the internet went down...
the internet is the only thing that is keeping us connected and updated with information...
im thinking of puting together what i find to be the most important posts and printing hard copies just incase... any other ideas

cheers
Or write down the essentials by hand. Seriously.

You would remember it better and would be selective (rather than using hundreds of pages to backup the posts physically).

We need to start using our mental capacities more, and rely on technology less.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #4
Kahunamahalo
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Listen,
There are some of us on this forum who were alive before the internet, cell phones, computers etc... If it died tomorrow, it would be no big deal, we would just have to do what we used to do, talk to people, network face to face.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #5
Tuza
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

I work for a big Australian company typing medical transcription for large public and private hospitals at home through broadband internet. They employ lots of MTs in Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere overseas. If the internet went down, we couldn't work, the company would lose, the doctors would lose, private and public consultants would not get their work done, - AND, most importantly for me my negative husband who thinks we are a bunch of negative, unintelligent loony tunes would actually take notice, because he does want his internet, one way or the other if it happens big deal, but he would really stand up and take notice then but then he would say it was because of this or that not anything about what we discuss here.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #6
kem
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Arrow Re: if the internet died!!

Hello,

In the worst case scenario (martial law, WWIII or whatsoever happens), there likely will be an Internet shut down. How shall we prepare to this? I think we must find ASAP alternative ways to cope with that problem, at least to get a true and deep insight into what's going on overseas (I live in Europe). I don't think though our mainstream media are gonna give us the true story about forthcoming events...
I really have no clue, maybe we should develop our telepathic capability to stay in touch...
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:04 PM   #7
Jamie
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Smile Re: if the internet died!!

I read a few years ago that this teenager was working on a way of keeping the internet going in the event that the TPTB or a virus destroyed.

I think it was based on the concept of turning every PC on the net into a form of server/router.

The thing is we could fairly easily create our own www using radio telemetry. All we need is the basic structure and knowledge to be put in place. This maybe very basic compared to what we enjoy on the internet now, maybe even going back to the good old days of using BBS.

Things to ponder for sure.

Jay
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:52 PM   #8
kem
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypierce2008 View Post
I read a few years ago that this teenager was working on a way of keeping the internet going in the event that the TPTB or a virus destroyed.

I think it was based on the concept of turning every PC on the net into a form of server/router.

The thing is we could fairly easily create our own www using radio telemetry. All we need is the basic structure and knowledge to be put in place. This maybe very basic compared to what we enjoy on the internet now, maybe even going back to the good old days of using BBS.

Things to ponder for sure.

Jay

Hi again,

I think it'd be the best solution. Do you have any link on the Internet to set this kind of radio telemetry up ? I'd like to see how it works and how to make it by ourselves.
Thanks
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:57 PM   #9
Jamie
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Smile Re: if the internet died!!

I think this would be a great thing to talk about on the radio thread:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=300

Jay
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:09 PM   #10
Jacqui D
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

If the internet suddenly crashed it would cause many to panic a little i feel, so many people today can not see past this machine that controls their lives.
(And here i am using one i know) but saying that without the fast connection to all of you out there my incoming news would be so much slower.
Yes we can live without the internet, as an earlier post said it's not been around forever we managed before all this technology we can do it again.

I think people will rally around more if everything crashed,tv,mobiles etc;
That's no bad thing is it?
Perhaps we will learn to talk to each other again something that has been long lost i feel in todays society, lets hope it doesn't happen but if it does we will have to keep the information that has been given to us stored, either in memory or on paper.
We will hve to go back to the old ways of passing information on be it slow but it works, only problem with that solution is it may end up like chinese whispers.
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Old 09-26-2008, 11:35 PM   #11
Trishsgate
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

I really have been out of this loop for some time so please forgive me if I am not up-to-date on the tech as I should be and really should not be jumping into this post.
The way to handle it locally would be by the use of LAN's, WAN's, or MAN's that would only be available if you have some alternative source of power should the grid go. Network software\server(s) as well as cables\cards\hubs\routers etc will be needed. If emp's have occurred one more thing would be preserving these from damage. I am not sure on this one but if they are completely off the grid (unplugged) and protected then they may not get fried in the process, this would be more of a question for Henry Deacon than myself to take on. There is in development or developed a switch to protect against such an emp but I have not checked on it in quite a while.
While getting off the net is a good thing for some there are useful purposes that one may find attractive, such as schooling via PC, information needed for the community, alerts etc. One will really have to way the pros and cons in this and decide if this is a way for them to go. Hope this helps get you started and if I am out of date or inaccurate please add to this thread.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:38 AM   #12
Anchor
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

I think a strong EMP (say due to Corona Mass Ejection) is going to mean game over for electronics for a while.

The long runs of fibre-optic cables would not be harmed much by EMP, and a lot of the internet infrastructure is fibre. However its the little electrical parts along the way and for the teleco's local distribution to peoples houses that are the weak spots.

If the necessary maintenance, manufacturing and infrastructure companies survived then the system would recover in time, but that might not happen if the economy collapsed because a lot of people who would be more worried about survival rather than working for free to rebuild someone elses network!

I know many companies in Financial Services and they are more dependant on a functioning internet for information transfer than they care to admit or want to face up to. Thier private networks are just as vulnerable anyway. So any planet wide outage of the internet would have an enormous impact on the functioning of many companies and the economy.

So barring causes by way of a natural disaster - I just dont think it will happen - too much at stake. What I think more likely is attempts at censorship and content control, bans on anonymity, privacy, encryption etc etc. China's government have already implemented much of this and are probably viewed as a model for other factions of the elite.

None of this need happen if we use our creative skills appropriately and manifest the sort of world we want to live in, rather that worry about what could happen.

Bless you all, in the love and in the light of ALL there is.

A..
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:49 AM   #13
Mark
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Geeks get crazy and design an internet that is not relient on isp's and corprate money - it must be possible to do this.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:08 AM   #14
sirian77
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Then i would die along with it.
http://shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:10 AM   #15
eurosceptic
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

We wouldn't have this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Ogi...eature=related
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:40 AM   #16
eurosceptic
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

seriously though - print out info - if you have no printer go to a library. write things out.

Contact local peoople/groups with info and knowledge etc
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:32 PM   #17
FractalCatalyst
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Build real community locally. Open your mind to the unlimited possibilities of the universe, specifically as it applies to your latent psychic abilities and learn and practice telepathy already.

In addition, you should strongly consider buying/building a bunch of outdoor WiFi mesh routers and deploying them around your community using solar power. The mesh networking protocol, developed by MIT for their "roofnet" mesh, ensures that connections can be made even if some nodes are down.

If you're this geeky, you could probably figure out how to host a server out of your house that can provide a community wiki as the default page users see (like at hotels) when connecting to your free wifi mesh network, and get the free Sahana disaster management platform installed and configured and get some trusted locals deputized ahead of time as Sahana users in case a disaster strikes your community that would benefit from centralized resource/response management. You should probably have at least FRS radios if not HAM and a few agreed-upon channels for routine and emergency communications traffic if you set up this kind of team.

The whole idea here is to take your communications off the grid, even the Internet itself. If a few of these solar wifi mesh nodes were hosted by people with diverse Internet connections, you'd have redundant pathways to the public Internet. If the Internet becomes unusable, you still have a community intranet based around an auto-loading Wiki page which you're hopefully backing up in nightly increments with free solutions such as Bacula in case unstable people mess up the contributions of helpful people as with Wikipedia.

The community wireless mesh could also host a secure voice and video communications server using the free Asterisk software on just about any old PC to provide secure community telephone and video broadcasting/conferencing service within your mesh coverage area. All your neighbors need is a PC with a modem and any regular telephone, and they can have an extension on the system just like in an office. Or use software phones and headsets to connect to the community Asterisk server from anywhere. When done over an OpenVPN-based encrypted VPN it becomes impractical for even the Ennesay to electronically wiretap these conversations.

You could even find some cheap WiFi webcams and power them off the same mesh node solar circuits to create your own counter-surveillance network so you know when and where it's safe to roam the streets amid police state actions. Hell, add a personal weather station... the possibilities are endless.

We're very fortunate to share like minds with thousands of brilliant and selfless software developers who volunteer their time to free open-source software projects such as the ones listed above to create in many cases the very best-of-breed software solutions for a wide range of human needs which are completely free, secure and infinitely extensible thanks to the availability of the source code. I think the global open-source movement is beginning to reach a critical mass of creative output which is going to help propel us into the next steps in human social or organizational evolution through decentralization, disintermediation and democratization of communications, security and resource management of every imagineable kind.

Basically, these geeks are the ultimate libertarians, intentionally yet humbly and quietly building people-owned systems to replace all corporate- or gov't-controlled or intel-infiltrated systems currently in place. It's efforts like these that give me hope that we will be able to comfortably transition the world's societies out of global capitalism and into whatever organizational superstructures our new reality is spawning with minimal suffering.

So get to work!
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:19 AM   #18
RSF
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

A controlled crash & burn of Internet communications by authority within North America is more than conceivable I feel, it may well become reality. It's already soothed as a lack of controlled media.

Which has and continues to drive powers to the point of considered interdiction. Elections are won/lost off the power of todays communications of People through the Internet.

Slicing a few optical lines can simply change a whole bunch of stuff that till this point was taken (rightfully so) by People communicating with other People about 'things & stuff''...
RSF
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:29 PM   #19
Fredkc
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Geeks get crazy and design an internet that is not relient on isp's and corprate money - it must be possible to do this.
A couple of thoughts to this end.

First:
T'was a time, not too long ago that the Internet was the exclusive domain of A) the military/Feddle Gummint, and B) The cogniscenti of the universities who took their dollar. It's just since the mid-90's that the great unwashed (me n'thee) had access. But....

Information such as you see here was available almost universally. The media was called BBS, or Bulletin Board Systems. These were generally slower (read L O T S !! ) as they were modem to modem connections. No Google existed so knowledge of their existence was largely word of mouth, etc. Most were run by just plain folk who did it on their own, with maybe only 1 to 5 connections allowed at a time.

I still have copies of some Lear, MJ-12 docs, and even transcripts of Lazar interviews which I first encountered on just such systems.

Secondly;
If you have any inkling/curiosity/desire/notion to build your own electronic archive, as I have done, then I suggest you invest in, and investigate what is possible on a machine using Windows 2000 Pro, or Xp Pro (Yes, this is also built into any Linux installation. I'll stick with what most people know).

Both Win2K Pro, and Xp Pro, and for that matter ALL server versions of Windows have on the original CD, tho in most cases is not installed, something called IIS. This stands for Internet Information Server. In short, a web server.

With it you can take and archive nearly anything you find on the web. I began doing this almost 13 years ago myself. In the process I have learned to keep most of my own documents and such in HTML form, as a habit. I also wrote a browsing/search system for all this (happens to be one of my specialties, I guess) but not it's necessary for the purpose.

My original intent was to leave for my children/grandchildren a body of knowledge which I felt was both important, informative and educational. I began with Classical literature, important "sacred" and political documents, and the like. This archive has now grown to (if you include both machines I use for this purpose) some 48,000 docs, roughly 4 Gigabytes of info. I have additionally burned off copies at various times to CD's which are now stored at my kid's and two friend's houses.

When/if the "internet" is shut off, if electricity still exists, this whole archive is still available to them, and could also be made available using the old B.B.System as well. Saved on CD, it could also live again, whenever electricity returns. :^)

My classical literature collection, for instance now stands at roughly 1,200 volumes. If you are curious as to what I mean, I keep a "revolving" subset (usually around 300 volumes) on my website and the start point for this monster is here:
http://fredsitelive.com/books/index.php

A couple of things I did along the way, since database programming for the web is one of my things, is take a few things and develop search pages for their contents. Examples:
  • A "Wild card" searchable Webster's Unabridged Dictionary. The idea is you type what you know, and put an * where you don't, and let fly. For instance entering abduc* will return the definitions for: Abduce, Abduced, Abducing, Abduct, Abducted, Abducting, Abduction, and Abductor.
  • Two excellent bible dictionaries, out of copyright are Vine's and Easton's Bible Dictionaries. I have assembled both into a similar search here.
  • An odd one, perhaps, but useful. If you know the latitude and longitude of two zip codes, you can calculate the distance between the two. Yes, I happen to have both a 42,000 entry Database of such data, and a page which will calculate the answer here. This is "as the crow flies" distance, and is from center of one zipcode, to center of the other. Example: The distance from Riverside, Ca. 92509 to Boulder, Co. 80501 is 803 miles, 1,292 Km. And yes, for those who've seen the latest Bourne movie, the zip code 41571 really is for Varney, Ky. ;^)
Anyway... food for thought, and please feel free to browse the links. My site is completely non-commercial. I don't make a dime from all this. Nor do I record your comings and goings in any way. As I said above, it began as a "pay it forward" project for my kids, and such, and it's presence on the Internet is more of the same. Enjoy !!

Fred.
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Last edited by Fredkc; 10-02-2008 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:51 PM   #20
sunflower
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Hi Fred K, this is the sort of stuff which is truly useful. I am not computer tech literate but am saving your info anyway. What a wonderful and thoughtful idea to record and save imp. works of info and lit.

Some of us can't contribute all that much but we can surely learn from what's available on this site! Diane
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:30 PM   #21
Fredkc
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Thanx for the kind words, Diane.
It's something I've felt both had a good use now, and in the future. who knows, eh?

I just did a quick inventory of the online book section. There are roughly:
420 books,
and their 240 illustrations,
in that section. It is roughly 90 megabytes. which, if you take roughly 4,000 bytes as the size of the avg. type-written page, yields some, 22,500 pages of text.

For something fun, Mark Twain wrote something called Adam's Diary, and theres always Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary.
Quote:
Examples:
ABDICATION
, n. An act whereby a sovereign attests his sense of the high temperature of the throne.
KILT, n. A costume sometimes worn by Scotsmen in America and Americans in Scotland.
AIR, n. A nutritious substance supplied by a bountiful Providence for the fattening of the poor.
You can go here, for things of a political/historical nature like:
  • Dec. Of Independence,
  • U.S, Constitution,
  • Federalist Papers, Anti-Fed Papers,
  • Minutes of the Constitutional Convention,
  • A small Collection of Thomas Jefferson's Writings,
  • Democracy In America
Again, Enjoy!
Fred
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:36 AM   #22
Brinty
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahunamahalo View Post
Listen,
There are some of us on this forum who were alive before the internet, cell phones, computers etc... If it died tomorrow, it would be no big deal, we would just have to do what we used to do, talk to people, network face to face.
I agree whole heartedly Kahunamahalo, but I suspect that that form of communication is becoming a dying art. I can remember when, in a street of almost 100 homes, there were only about ten that had cars, maybe 20 had the telephone, TV didn't exist and people would, could, and did, walk for miles to go to the pictures or dances. Those were what were referred to as 'the good old days'. A time when it was possible to walk through the darkest streets of a city without fear - a time when it was safe for women or children to talk to strangers. And a time when it was possible in a morning, to walk out of a job that didn't suit you, and start a new one that same afternoon. Yes, those were the good old days - when marriages lasted 'till death do us part.'
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:08 PM   #23
Fredkc
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Brinty, I basically "arrived with television", but my brothers and sisters went thru the last depression as kids. Your post made me think of several things, but...

Remember being told "If you ever get lost, go find a cop." ??

The notion gives me chills nowadays.

One saturday morning, about 28 years ago, while we slept in (7:30) Our two daughters, 5 and 3 1/2 decided they'd "go get some ice cream" and "Oh, lets not wake mom and dad".

So, 7:30 AM comes a knock at the door, and it's the cops with both of our daughters. The one cop says with a smile, "Have you got any ice cream? I've got a couple of hungry kids here."

Today, there'd be cop cars on the lawn, TV cameras in the driveway, wife and I hauled off in handcuffs, and we probably wouldn't see our kids for two years. And all that is assuming they were "lucky" enough t find a cop.

In the small clump of houses that was "our neighborhood" growing up, you could count on at least 6 pairs eyes on all the kids outside playing. It's just flat amazing the diff things fear can kill.

Wife and I still try to live that old kinda life. Die hards, I guess.

Peace,
Fred
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:21 PM   #24
Operator
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Default Re: if the internet died!!

Hi,

Maybe the best way to control the people is having the internet up and running ... This way they monitor exactly how much we know.

I started a thread on free email ... check it out.

Internet is coming from ARPA ... it is actually coming from the military and it was designed to be self healing.
If a route becomes unavailable it will search for another one ...

I guess it's a question of what outweighs what at a given moment.

Cheers
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:25 PM   #25
Suriel
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Wink Re: if the internet died!!

I use the internet to pay bills and do research. If the internet went down, I would review what I have learned and pay my bills the old fashioned way. Not to mention, we would have more money because I am currently paying $40.00 a month to keep it running.

Think about the people that lived in the 1800s. If they can survive, so can we.

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