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Old 06-02-2009, 08:31 PM   #1
John Lee
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Exclamation A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

For some of you, your small inner voice (or maybe just your plain ole’ common sense) is probably telling you that where you are now may not be the best place to spend the next few years.

For me, my inner voice (too often neglected), is urging me to find and help a handful of good souls who will, in fact, be much safer to get far from where they currently are.

I have a place that I may be able to share.

What has become my intended refuge began many years ago as an intended retirement home where, once finished, I knew I could live peacefully for next-to-nothing. I wanted to have the space and distance from “civilization” to pursue my interests without bothering anyone and without anyone bothering me.

But I didn’t want to be so far from everything that I needed a bush plane to take my wife to dinner or buy a gallon of paint.

Now, in pursuit of my career as an off-shore manufacturing manager, factory start-up guy and engineer, I have actually lived in more places than most people have ever seen and traveled to and spent time in dozens more far-flung places around the world. As a result, when I found that ‘right’ place for me almost 20 years ago, though it certainly was not perfect, I was able to evaluate it based on a lot of real-world, first-hand experience. Experience since then has only reinforced my initial impression.

But the world continued to deteriorate since I first found this place. Not long ago, I realized that what had been intended originally as a peaceful retirement retreat, could, with some added features and provisions, serve as an ideal, out-of-the-way refuge when the defecation hits the ventilation, as most of us believe it surely will.

Right now I live only about 2 ½ hours from my place, ‘the mountain’, as I call it. I plan to move there within the next two to three months. Once there, I still have a few months’ work to do before calling myself reasonably ‘ready’. Though it’s a labor of love, time is pressing and I cannot delay any longer.

Although my original intent was for my wife and me to enjoy the relative solitude of the place in retirement, I now see that helping a few very special people should be a much more important and immediate focus. I have the space to develop fairly quickly a small, walled community for about 10 couples/individuals who have the need, interest, skills, courage, temperament, and character to participate and cooperate in such an undertaking.

If a person likes the natural look and feel of Sedona, Arizona, they’ll love ‘the mountain’…except that ‘my mountain’ is located in Central México at about 7,100 ft above sea level where it’s never hot or cold.

In addition to having a finer climate than anywhere in the US, bar none, ‘the mountain’ is not a place that attracts the wealthy, tax-collectors, tourists, marauders, or Big Brother. The land has a 50-mile view and borders on several thousand picturesque acres freely accessible to residents of the community.

There are two rivers that meet in a canyon below, a small reservoir a few hundred yards away and only a couple of dozen quiet Mexican farmers living within half a mile.

There is also a fair-sized cave on the property that extends an unknown distance beneath a cap of about 8-10 feet of solid stone, a real unique feature. Solar and wind energy are abundant. There is no record or memory of seismic activity in the area that I am aware of.

The ‘mountain’ is almost 1,000 miles south of the nearest large US target/city and more than three hours north of México City.

I have quietly done much over the past several years to build my place and put together its infrastructure which, previously, was sadly lacking. To develop the proposed community will build on what I have done already. Of course, it will require more effort, but only very modest amounts of money.

I have most of the key tools, equipment, know-how, labor, and materials sources needed to proceed without delay.

I do want to be clear on something very basic: I’m not trying to sell anything, not land, condominiums, time-shares…nothing at all, no scams, schemes, hoaxes or hustles….but I am willing to help put this together, working with a few good folks in the spirit of the new world we all hope is just around the corner.

Also, I should mention, that if anyone wants be involved in this community but wants to get out of the US now, I can facilitate everything involved on the México end so that they would not have to first wait for development of the community before they leave. Living modestly in this part of México is very inexpensive and my wife and I know how to do it!

Anyone who thinks they might be interested and qualified, please contact me at my personal box on the forum. Also, I put together quite a few pictures in a web album that I just uploaded to Picasa. I’ll send you the link on request so you can have a good look at the place and some of the work that’s already been done.

I only recently found out about this forum, so have just joined.

This is my first post and the first and only time to-date I have extended any inquiry for like-minded individuals to build this community. Time is, indeed, of the essence, so please contact me quickly if you feel this may be right for you and want to find out more.

John Lee
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:09 PM   #2
Carmen
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Greetings John, and congratulations on your first post/thread, an excellent one I might add.

If I was living in the USA or same continent land I would be very tempted by your offer. Your genuineness is clear by your post.

I have had a similiar prompting from my God within (my voice of inspiration) here in New Zealand. I feel certain souls will be prompted to seek out my place of refuge when the time is right. My family are all round about me and we are putting into place self sufficient elements and preparations. Taking steps, even small ones, is very empowering wouldnt you say? I think when we take responsiblity to look after ourselves and others we are helped and inspired in remarkable ways.

Congratulations on your achievements of your plans and visions. Your little community will become a marvellous radiant zone and draw like minded souls to contribute to your vision.

Love and Light

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Old 06-03-2009, 01:18 AM   #3
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Another thought I had John, have you read the Ringing Cedars Series of books? There is some great advice on self-sufficient communities. One of the guidelines which I agree with is that people need to own their own piece of land. The advice in the books is for each family to own a hectare of land, but to live in a community of other folks who own their land also. Community halls and gathering places and sharing of talents is important in a self-sufficient community but the idea of owning a small piece was important. In my experience this is true. People who own their land and build their own dwellings put their consciousness into it. It becomes a part of who they are, their vibration. People who only rent land or houses do not care for their dwellings in the same way as those who own. So, with that in mind, is it possible for people to buy small parcels of nearby land to own for themselves but also to contribute to a self-sufficient community?

Actually, it beggars belief to me that other people have not responded to your thread!!! Seems as though many would rather study the doom and gloom and moan about how terrible everything is than take any steps to actually "do" something to preserve themselves or their families.

Love

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Old 06-03-2009, 01:24 AM   #4
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I inquired about John's idea and I have to tell everyone the pictures of his place are beautiful. It would be such a Blessing to live there.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

congrats John, I don't reply to many posts, but yours is great.
we are doing the same type of planning as you. we have moved to 343mtrs above sea level,great views, and yes a wee bit away from the taxman etc.
building a safe place to be.

yes it is fast becoming clear the need to take care of mother earth and ourselves.
look forward to reading some more of your posts and keeping up with what you are doing.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen View Post
Another thought I had John, have you read the Ringing Cedars Series of books? There is some great advice on self-sufficient communities. One of the guidelines which I agree with is that people need to own their own piece of land. The advice in the books is for each family to own a hectare of land, but to live in a community of other folks who own their land also. Community halls and gathering places and sharing of talents is important in a self-sufficient community but the idea of owning a small piece was important. In my experience this is true. People who own their land and build their own dwellings put their consciousness into it. It becomes a part of who they are, their vibration. People who only rent land or houses do not care for their dwellings in the same way as those who own. So, with that in mind, is it possible for people to buy small parcels of nearby land to own for themselves but also to contribute to a self-sufficient community?

Actually, it beggars belief to me that other people have not responded to your thread!!! Seems as though many would rather study the doom and gloom and moan about how terrible everything is than take any steps to actually "do" something to preserve themselves or their families.

Love

Carmen
Hey Carmen, I'm not overly surprised about the lack of responses. Although this is a great and generous offer, I believe home is where your heart is. Having been born and raised here in America, I couldn't think of any place I'd rather be than here. I've been all over this country, from border to border, coast to coast, and there's plenty of places to live safely if anything happens.

I don't care how bad it gets or what actually happens in the future, this is where I want to be! This is the land I know and love, this is where my heart is, this is where friends and family are.

This post is to say thanks John Lee, and also to bump the thread up!
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:27 PM   #7
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Hey Carmen, I'm not overly surprised about the lack of responses. Although this is a great and generous offer, I believe home is where your heart is. Having been born and raised here in America, I couldn't think of any place I'd rather be than here. I've been all over this country, from border to border, coast to coast, and there's plenty of places to live safely if anything happens.

I don't care how bad it gets or what actually happens in the future, this is where I want to be! This is the land I know and love, this is where my heart is, this is where friends and family are.

This post is to say thanks John Lee, and also to bump the thread up!
I agree Dan. I could not think of leaving my family behind in the states. Also I feel that there are others out there who would be more in need of such a generous offer than me. I am quite resourceful! Though I did message John about the pictures out of curiosity.
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:18 PM   #8
Carmen
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I appreciate what you guys are saying Lorien and Dan, I too, am sticking with my home and country! I was just a bit irked by Avalonions lack of response to a first post and a generous offer. We seem to respond to the stupidist posts sometimes and ignore helpful positive, well written ones.!
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:19 PM   #9
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Carmen, Sometimes folks who are interested don't post and contact the OP directly. Indeed it is a generous offer. One thing that is very important is that the group be compatible with the owners.

Recently we had someone from Avalon come stay and it did not work out. Another person wanted to come and given what he said about himself again it would not work. It takes time to sort out who would be a good fit for this type of particular situation.

On one hand I'm interested and could see this as a possibility. Ecuador is a possibility. Many places are a possibility. Yet the actual task of pulling up roots and moving to another area is huge. We've done it once. When we moved here from the mainland we left a 40 foot container there buried in the mountain. That was a back-up plan should the need arise. However, given all the volcanic activity here on this island I feel a bit uneasy and am unsure what to do. It takes time to get re-established somewhere new. And the accomendations at this site are still a bit unclear. Meaning is one starting over from scracth building a place to live? That takes time and money.

There are a number of open-ended questions to be answered prior to making any decision of this magnitude.

I did notice something ironic as my cousin's name is Lee John and the OP is John Lee.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:20 PM   #10
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Thanks so much for all who have replied about the possible México community I mentioned....I certainly understand that such a thing would not be everyone's 'cup of tea'...that's the beauty of real 'diversity', individuality, and free choice.....it's also why, in the Post title, I used the expression "for a Few Good Men & Women".

It's good to hear also that many still feel welcome and potentially safe in the US. My own experience has made me feel differently, but that's my experience and I am glad it has not been shared by everyone else.

Also, for me I have had the very mixed blessing of having to live outside the US in pursuit of a career in manufacturing during much of which time manufacturing was shutting down in the US and going off-shore. My Spanish, personal temperament, and prior experience have kept me on the front-lines of this through many years...not always the most pleasant place to be!

Working and living in such circumstances has been tough at times...certainly makes a person appreciate what has been, can be and sometimes still is great about the US. It also removes all romanticism and
possible naiveté about a sunny México, or the tropical paradise of Thailand or an ancient and mysterious China.

But, having lived in these and many more places, I have grown to have a realistic respect for the pros and cons of them all and to have a calm confidence in the flexibility that a non-US base can provide for me and others who may have the interest and temperament for it....again this is certainly not for everyone, nor do I suggest it is THE thing to do, the BEST place or anything but a possible choice for certain individuals.

What I offer/propose is to help a few such people by providing experienced assistance in making what Carol pointed out is, in fact, a big step to pull up roots and move anywhere, much less to another country! If someone feels lead to do that and the chemistry is right, however, I can certainly be the catalyst to help make it a reality.

Carol is also right on the money that what I am talking about is not some sort of a turn-key comfy Cancún resort.....time, money, and effort will be required to move forward...And, although this is not for the faint of heart, I have, in fact, spent years and thousands of dollars in developing the basic infrastructure of this place, as well as learning how to do it so that the right people wanting to participate now would not have to deal with these daunting and costly issues....

There is a lot of talk about Ecuador, no doubt a great place and a place I personally would have no fear of tackling...however, I would not assume the issues I have had to deal with in Méxcio would be any quicker, less costly or less daunting there.....

I will say this, for anyone thinking of going out of the US but who has never had to build a factory or a home in a foreign country, there is a danger, though completely understandable, of tending to assume that things happen in other countries the way we've become used to in the US....rarely so!

In any case, I certainly welcome anyone interested to look at the México pictures...many are rather artistic in themselves in capturing some of the natural beauty of the place...a place about which a Mexican artist once commented, "In México, one sees the face of Creation"....it is true.

I am however having a little trouble simply posting the link here or directly in an e-mail...seems I have to send an "Invitation" either from Picasa or from my regular e-mail to a regular e-mail....so, if you'd like to see the pics, just e-mail me at
jleerskov@gmail.com and I'll get the link right to you.

Best to all!!

John Lee'
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:09 AM   #11
John Lee
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Hi, all..again.....I'm new at the mechanics of the forum so I'm still a bit clumsy in responding to comments as I should.

Carmen,

Thanks for your reference to the book about setting up communities....I need to get that for reference.

I certainly agree with the suggestion that each person/household should have a hectare of land which they owned outright....I'd prefer more than a hectare! [A hectare is a bit less than 2 1/2 acres for those who are not familiar with metric land measurement].

For the project currently being proposed, however, what I'm envisioning is something that a group of properly motivated individuals could have livable in less than a year, a bit close within the walls perhaps but with lots of space outside the walls and probably much more survivable, other things being equal, than most other places I know of.....This approach creates time and cost efficiencies and synergies by building on what I've already done.

Later, if we have more time, or after the smoke clears away and we're still standing, everyone could explore bigger, more comfortable, privately-owned developments, using the proposed little walled community as a jumping off point.

Attempting to set up from scratch one hectare or bigger independent home sites right now, as touched on in my last post, would be quite daunting and probably take longer than we have.....though if someone wanted to tackle that, I'd certainly point them in the right direction in my area....(they could actually both participate in the walled community and work on their own private project if they had the funds and wanted to hedge their bets.)

My immediate idea is really like a circling of the wagons or a coming together of the village into the castle walls to deal with what many feel is an imminently approaching storm....I have envisioned a Plan A, B, and C to deal with these possibly impending issues.....after which we could proceed to set-up a more comfortable and sustainable community along the lines you suggest.

John Lee'

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Old 06-04-2009, 02:01 AM   #12
Ross H
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Thankyou John for your generous thoughts and Ideas. I agree completely. I am a NEW ZEALANDER living in Queesland Australia. I live 50km from the coast on 46 acres, 12.8 x 7.5 mtr shed fitted out like a house, 67000ltrs of rain water, solar power, very fertile land and most comfortable here. I too have thoughts of a collective living group. My family live in NZ and i have tryed to awaken them but they are not ready. I live here alone and as beautiful and set up as it is I am yet to find kindred spirits to share it with. Perhaps as things develop ppls will become more aware and relise the urban areas will be difficult to survive in. Any lovely kind aware woman wish to share my property please make contact.

peace and love to all
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:06 AM   #13
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view from my hill...
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:42 AM   #14
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Hi!

Sounds like a great set-up ....my kind of a place!

I'll ask around here about that like-minded lady.....I've found Latin ladies to be agree very much with my own temperament....my wife is from El Salvador, and she is the closest creature to an angel I have ever had the privilege to know...and we've been together over 10 years now, so I think I know the real person.


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Thankyou John for your generous thoughts and Ideas. I agree completely. I am a NEW ZEALANDER living in Queesland Australia. I live

peace and love to all
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:44 AM   #15
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Beautiful view.....I know you can breathe there!

JL

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view from my hill...
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:38 AM   #16
Ross H
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Hi John, sent private msg to you but its not showing up in my sent items?? dont know if you recieved?
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:20 AM   #17
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Wonderful post and I am surprised there have not been many more like this on Avalon (time will change that I guess).
I've been thinking of ideas along these lines for a long time now and have talked to a a lot of people about it. The overall feeling I get from people at this point in time is a 'sitting on the fence uncertainty', seems very few people are willing to make any radical changes in their lives even though they know its all slowly going down the drain.

The other factor of course is the lack of money most people have which in turn tends to keep people where they are.
I myself live in Victoria,Australia and am hoping to move out to a mountain range in VIC or NSW but with a family to support and not much of an income it seems next to impossible at this point in time.

It will be a terrible shame if more people cant band together before the world gets up-ended.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:44 AM   #18
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Neo.. you hit the nail on the head. We have a 13 year old and a 42 year old. That gives one a sense of us off the bat with respect to having to look out for the younger one. If I were by myself it would be a lot easier to to move or stay. Yet with others to consider then it becomes a much bigger picture.

We have 5 acres here we've been working on these past two years fencing for the mini horses (who can pull carts), chickens for eggs, planting an orchard with all types of trees and next putting an aquaponics system in. This would have been a fine spot to dig in except with what has been going on with our volcano spewing vog into the air. One end of this island is overdue for a volcanic eruption.

On one hand island life is ideal because there aren't that many people on this island and most folks are related so they are family. Family here takes care of family which is really nice. This island has around 4,000 sq miles with around 100,000 or less people on it. One can fish, it has the largest cattle ranch in the US and the earth is good for growing food year round. Yet being in the middle of the ocean has its own concerns.

No oil, no transportation, no electricity. Many of the islanders would love it and could make due. And then there are those who are dependent upon resources just to get from one day to the next.. meds for medical conditions, health care providers are the two that pop to mind first.

John, what type of infrastructure do you already have?

If someone was to come to visit and check it out would they be in a tent out back or some type of bunkhouse?

Being your age there are a few things that are important and where I sleep is one of them. Also, just how remote are you? Could one drive a motor home there?

Thank you for starting this thread as it hopefully will help people think about what the ground crew needs to be doing now.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:33 AM   #19
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

Wow Wow Wow what an offer thanks John Lee ,welcome to Avalon .Your first post is fantastic , I live in the bigbrother state UK so sadly will not be joining you but A BIG THANK YOU FOR THE OFFER blessings to you and yours.
This is what Avalon was setup for
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:46 AM   #20
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Thankyou John for your generous thoughts and Ideas. I agree completely. I am a NEW ZEALANDER living in Queesland Australia. I live 50km from the coast on 46 acres, 12.8 x 7.5 mtr shed fitted out like a house, 67000ltrs of rain water, solar power, very fertile land and most comfortable here. I too have thoughts of a collective living group. My family live in NZ and i have tryed to awaken them but they are not ready. I live here alone and as beautiful and set up as it is I am yet to find kindred spirits to share it with. Perhaps as things develop ppls will become more aware and relise the urban areas will be difficult to survive in. Any lovely kind aware woman wish to share my property please make contact.

peace and love to all
beautiful place. It's a pity you live so far away from where I live....
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:01 PM   #21
John Lee
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Hi, all,

All well said regarding those who depend on us.

I have two children, but both are grown and on their own....my wife has a 21-year old studying Medicine back home in El Salvador, staying with her Grandmother, which is a very Latin way to operate.

I used to have 6 horses, and they too were like children, so I understand how difficult it can be to be light on ones feet, so to speak, when it comes to big moves.

Carol, to a couple of your questions, my infrastructure, at least as I primarily refer to it includes several hundred meters of all-weather road to be able to access the place and get out when it rains.....before the dry mountain-top would turn into a swamp at such times.....I have some great pictures (not included in the posted album) of a team of horses trying to pull out my stuck van! [they failed!!] I have also installed appropriate underground drainage tiles needed to help in water management.

I have a 27 KVA substation fed by several hundred meters of 13,000 Volt high-tension line ...all of which I had to install to have decent grid power. I have potable water, a few thousand liters storage now (more to come), I have irrigation lines to water a 40 tree orchard and several hundred roses, bougainvilleas.

I have refrigerator and 2 backup generators. Also have LP gas tanks and stoves for cooking. LP also provides very decent lighting if needed.

I have three houses in different stages of construction, the smallest, the two-story one seen in some of the pictures, is nearest completion, the bottom floor is effectively complete except for some details...has concrete floor, stone walls, electricity, steel doors and steel window frame....this is where I sleep when I go there.....(I have another storage room that is OK for sleeping for those who are not too shy about rustic things)...... the upstairs 'only' lacks windows, doors, kitchen cabinets and appliances as well as paint and some electrical to be complete....I plan to complete this as quickly as possible to make the whole house comfortably livable.

Sometimes when guests have come in the past, they have brought tents (some shown in the pics) and all have had a blast...great cook-outs, ghost stories, air-rifle plinking and hikes down through the canyon to the river.

If someone wanted to visit tomorrow, I would suggest they fly into México City or Toluca, I could meet them and we could go to the mountain the next day....2 1/2 hours away and a lot of great scenery on the way.....we could then return that night to Toluca or could get a room in the nearby town (about 10 miles from mountain).....nice old colonial town with 400 year-old churches and charming town square....very colorful on weekends.

With some finesse one could access the place with a motor-home if not too big, though there is one corner that would be a bit tricky. Actually one doesn't see too many motor homes in México and I would be reluctant to bring one there.

Something related here though maybe a wee-bit off subject... I've found as a "Gringo" living and traveling in México, is it is best always to try to be as inconspicuous as possible.....I've learned and developed a lot of little things I do to achieve this...anybody coming here, that would be part of the "training"!......these tricks really help to avoid marking yourself as a target for the predators, including regular street thieves as well as the typical traffic policeman looking for a "mordida" ...we tend to stand out, so it's always best to try to effectively camouflage ourselves.

Hope I've answered your questions and provided some useful info....because, yes, there are so many nitty-gritty details that one needs to learn to deal with if he is to successfully adapt to living in another country....any country......really can save a lot of bad experiences if you have a mentor!

John Lee'


[quote=Carol;142573]Neo.. you hit the nail on the head. We have a 13 year old and a 42 year old. That gives one a sense of us off the bat with respect to having to look out for the younger one.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:04 PM   #22
John Lee
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

Hi, Scanner!

A one-way ticket outa there could be very liberating!

I know it takes planning and resources, but don't ever give up!

JL
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Wow Wow Wow what an offer thanks John
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:17 PM   #23
Carmen
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

Thats better, lots of responses. I like your style John, good luck with all your plans. Love to come visit someday.

Cheers

Carmen
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

John Lee you propose an interesting offer. It's too bad I have a teenage daughter who is very set in her ways or I might be tempted to check into the specifics of what you are proposing. I'm sure you'll have no trouble filling the spots rapidly. Good luck.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:12 AM   #25
John Lee
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Default Re: A Safer Place to Be... for a Few Good Men & Women?

Ah, yes, teenagers!

Have to say it is great that mine are grown.

Miracles do happen, though....perhaps one night a more mature part of her full being will whisper something in her ear and México may become just right...send me a regular e-mail and I'll fwd you the picture link so you can let her see the pictures....might plant a seed.

At least we can do our part!

Regards, John Lee'

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John Lee you propose an interesting offer. It's too bad I have a teenage daughter who is very set in her ways
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