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Old 03-09-2010, 09:35 PM   #26
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

It comes to the point where fear is non productive. ie rabbit in the headlights.

A rock climber is aware of the danger of climbing yet he cant afford fear.

Im suggesting that knowledge and preparation is one thing fear another.

A fireman need a cool head when rescuing some one from fire, he needs to calm the person that he is risking his life to save, of course its dangerous, would fear help? I think not.

The Climber and fire man are totally in the NOW. They cant afford to think of fear, or whats for supper for that matter. Their lives and others depend on being completely focused.

So Im suggesting that we have evolved beyond the animal instincts, they have served us well. Now we have the ability to be aware of danger with out the need for fight or flight adrenalin, we are evolving becoming more Right brain humans.

Ch
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:55 PM   #27
HORIZONS
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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It comes to the point where fear is non productive. ie rabbit in the headlights.

A rock climber is aware of the danger of climbing yet he cant afford fear.

Im suggesting that knowledge and preparation is one thing fear another.

A fireman need a cool head when rescuing some one from fire, he needs to calm the person that he is risking his life to save, of course its dangerous, would fear help? I think not.

The Climber and fire man are totally in the NOW. They cant afford to think of fear, or whats for supper for that matter. Their lives and others depend on being completely focused.

So Im suggesting that we have evolved beyond the animal instincts, they have served us well. Now we have the ability to be aware of danger with out the need for fight or flight adrenalin, we are evolving becoming more Right brain humans.

Ch
The rock climber and the fireman overcome their fear through their experience and training. This is their process of evolution. As one becomes more knowledgeable through experience the fear subsides. The fear of climbing and firefighting subsides.
Upon arising in the morning and walking through the kitchen and you happen to step on a wet rope fear will seize your mind thinking it is a snake ready to bite, but as you look down to see the snake you then realize that the supposed snake is a rope and the fear is gone. Learning from this experience the wet rope will have no more fear in your life should you step on it again. Had it been a snake, a quick reaction on your part induced by the fear may have saved you from a deadly bite.

~Namaste
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:18 PM   #28
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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The rock climber and the fireman overcome their fear through their experience and training. This is their process of evolution. As one becomes more knowledgeable through experience the fear subsides. The fear of climbing and firefighting subsides.
Upon arising in the morning and walking through the kitchen and you happen to step on a wet rope fear will seize your mind thinking it is a snake ready to bite, but as you look down to see the snake you then realize that the supposed snake is a rope and the fear is gone. Learning from this experience the wet rope will have no more fear in your life should you step on it again. Had it been a snake, a quick reaction on your part induced by the fear may have saved you from a deadly bite.

~Namaste
A Ramana and the rope,
Yes the illusion of fear has to be faced.
Different strokes for different folks.
Mountain folk know the dangers of running from bear which would seem to be a fear induced panic reaction.
What is appropriate in one situatiion would not be appropriate in another.
In general adrenalin fight or flight is not healthy but it might save your life long enough for it to be unhealthy.

Id rather be happy than right.
Nothing I say or think is written in concrete.

Eckhart Tolle said "Dont take your thoughts too seriously". Im trying ---very.

Namaste to you too.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:24 AM   #29
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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Upon arising in the morning and walking through the kitchen and you happen to step on a wet rope fear will seize your mind thinking it is a snake ready to bite, but as you look down to see the snake you then realize that the supposed snake is a rope and the fear is gone. Learning from this experience the wet rope will have no more fear in your life should you step on it again. Had it been a snake, a quick reaction on your part induced by the fear may have saved you from a deadly bite.

Ramana and the Rope

what it seems is not what it is


Reality puts on the Royal mantel of Maya

the Cloak of Concealment

the Sheath of Superimposition


appearances

veritable veils of distractions


if Ignorance is the father of Intellect

we have some work cut out for us

or just Let Go Let God lol
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:40 AM   #30
HORIZONS
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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A Ramana and the rope,
Yes the illusion of fear has to be faced.
Different strokes for different folks.
Mountain folk know the dangers of running from bear which would seem to be a fear induced panic reaction.
What is appropriate in one situatiion would not be appropriate in another.
In general adrenalin fight or flight is not healthy but it might save your life long enough for it to be unhealthy.

Id rather be happy than right.
Nothing I say or think is written in concrete.

Eckhart Tolle said "Dont take your thoughts too seriously". Im trying ---very.

Namaste to you too.

The only point I am adding here is that I do not think that we will wake up one day evolved out of our fear. The fear of death - the fear of the unknown - the fear of pain - the fear of being alone, etc, etc, We will need to face each and every fear and then see them for what they are - oh, fear is that you again, how are you, well you can go back to where you came from now I am done with you - Overcoming our fear through knowledge and experience and learning to live in a state of peace, recognizing that we have nothing to fear, not even fear itself, we will find ourselves fearless. Fear is overcome by facing them through knowledge and experience.

And the only absolute is that there is no absolute. So I am sure there are a myriad of answers to this thread.

~Namaste
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:21 AM   #31
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

I ain't ascarid of falling either.

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Old 03-10-2010, 08:01 AM   #32
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Hope we do get a myriad of viewpoints that helps greatly as then I have a choice of how I deal with knee jerking situations.
There is no i deal ideal way.
Eventually I got to the place that the only way to deal with a certain situation was to ask for Divine intervention to help me, in a fear filled situation. I got the help.
With Love
C
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:07 AM   #33
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

If you refuse to let certain things get to you, there's no way they'll get to you. In other words, don't pay attention to those trying to drum up fear.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:21 AM   #34
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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If you refuse to let certain things get to you, there's no way they'll get to you. In other words, don't pay attention to those trying to drum up fear.
Yes its that simple.
Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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Hope we do get a myriad of viewpoints that helps greatly as then I have a choice of how I deal with knee jerking situations.

With Love
C
you do know, no matter how many times a doctor taps your knee with a hammer, will still cause a reflex reaction...

you can try to control it and pretend it isn't there but that little rubber hammer pierces through the illusion and your leg bounces again...

now if you inject yourself with enough Novocaine to numb your senses so there is no feeling...

it might not move...

you step on that wet rope again 2 weeks after you convinced yourself it isn't anything to be afraid of in the dark and you will jump again...

heart pounding, adrenalin rushing, followed by a laugh and dang it...
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:04 PM   #36
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz View Post
you do know, no matter how many times a doctor taps your knee with a hammer, will still cause a reflex reaction...

you can try to control it and pretend it isn't there but that little rubber hammer pierces through the illusion and your leg bounces again...

now if you inject yourself with enough Novocaine to numb your senses so there is no feeling...

it might not move...

you step on that wet rope again 2 weeks after you convinced yourself it isn't anything to be afraid of in the dark and you will jump again...

heart pounding, adrenalin rushing, followed by a laugh and dang it...
Hi Rocky
My favourite author Dr David Hawkins says when there is a state of enlightenment that reflex is no longer present.
The same one out walking stumbled upon a rattler, there was an awareness of danger but he said the presence of love handled the situation. He and the rattler looked at each other and the rope I mean snake slid away.
However Im not in that state so I might be real glad of a little adrenalin if the wet rope turns out to be a snake.
30 years ago I rescued someone from a fire. I was drunk at the time though. Saw smoke poring out underneath a flat door opened it, wrong thing to do, lets oxygen in. Anyway I stumbled on someone lying on the floor and pulled him out. It was so black you couldn't see an inch in front, all respect to firemen. I was too out of it to be scared. In the morning I couldent believe what I had done. Sobriety arrived in my life soon after.

Ch
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

not long ago, I went for a walk down to the beach it was high tide so I entered through a different path I normally take and as usual was barefoot as I stepped through the rocks to work my way down to the sand.

as I was standing on a rock looking for my next step I felt something wet brush my ankle looking down I saw it was the tongue of a snake...

I recognized it as a rattler immediately but felt no fear and didn't jump to get from it's reach because I would have been hurt worse landing wrong on the boulders below me.

maybe I didn't taste right so he didn't bite but I thought he was just saying hi as I was passing.

It was coiled but it's rattle wasn't shaking so not disturbed at my presence.

If I was afraid would it have recognized it and struck me knowing my adrenaline was peaking ready to defend myself?
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:13 AM   #38
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

a friend was with me on the walk and the moment I saw the snake my first thought went to her safety, I reached behind me taking her hand to direct her to a different path...

I have been tested many times that is just one I remember because it was so recent.

I was down at the beach one day with my sisters and all of their families, and my kids were grabbing my hand pulling me to head out and play in the waves but I had a feeling and told them to wait for a bit.

Suddenly my hair was standing I knew something was wrong so I jumped to my feet and looked around and then I saw it. A small toddler was climbing under a bridge the sand was pushed up so it was blocking the flow of water forming a small pool beneath.

I sprinted across the beach not even remembering my feet touching the sand as I watched him tip forward head first into the water his arms too short to push himself free.

There was barely enough room for me so I dove in head first under the bridge catching a foot and pulling him back so his head was clear of the water.

It took a little for me to wiggle back out from under the bridge, but I was right behind the life guard towers and they hadn't even noticed the commotion. I picked up the small child and walked back over to where my family was having a picnic and set him down on the blanket to join us.

15 minutes later the frantic parents came running up the beach calling out for their child...

They only spoke Spanish so my sisters translated what had happened...

It was close, but what we are here for...
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:30 AM   #39
HORIZONS
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

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Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz View Post
a friend was with me on the walk and the moment I saw the snake my first thought went to her safety, I reached behind me taking her hand to direct her to a different path...

I have been tested many times that is just one I remember because it was so recent.

I was down at the beach one day with my sisters and all of their families, and my kids were grabbing my hand pulling me to head out and play in the waves but I had a feeling and told them to wait for a bit.

Suddenly my hair was standing I knew something was wrong so I jumped to my feet and looked around and then I saw it. A small toddler was climbing under a bridge the sand was pushed up so it was blocking the flow of water forming a small pool beneath.

I sprinted across the beach not even remembering my feet touching the sand as I watched him tip forward head first into the water his arms too short to push himself free.

There was barely enough room for me so I dove in head first under the bridge catching a foot and pulling him back so his head was clear of the water.

It took a little for me to wiggle back out from under the bridge, but I was right behind the life guard towers and they hadn't even noticed the commotion. I picked up the small child and walked back over to where my family was having a picnic and set him down on the blanket to join us.

15 minutes later the frantic parents came running up the beach calling out for their child...

They only spoke Spanish so my sisters translated what had happened...

It was close, but what we are here for...
Good posts!
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:33 AM   #40
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Go Rocky Shorz! You are an inspiration!

At what point does facing reality become fear mongering? At what point does positive thinking become delusional and irresponsible? I like the concept of Positive Response Ability...wherein one faces reality with positive and negative thinking...and formulates positive responses and solutions.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 03-11-2010 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:36 AM   #41
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

At what point does facing reality become fear mongering?'

thanks for this opening to what i've been thinking about writing/saying here, Orthodoxymoron

this theme of 'fearmongering' has surfaced on every forum i've spent time on -- i've come to the conclusion that those who suggest others are fearmongering are coming from a place of fear themselves -- because basically they are saying there are topics being discussed/presented for discussion that make them fearful -- otherwise they would not be trying to push these topics out of their own consciousness/'reality'

to me this seems rather self-centered -- 'I've got my own nice little light & love bubble going on here, & i don't want to hear about things that might threaten it'

it's a form of magical thinking -- usually a passionate conviction that 'we create our own reality' goes along w/this -- a conviction that 'I am God, totally in control of my own life' [this is how the reptilians see things --they are very into control -- & they do not honor the Creator--they honor themselves]

in Carl Jung's book on UFOs, he said that whether or not they were real, psychologically their appearance in such numbers [i believe he died in the '60s, long before the many worldwide sightings of the present time] represented humankind's inner preparation for 'a mass exodus of souls' in the near future

i don't think it's a coincidence that as the reality of the mass deaths [barring Divine Intervention] approaches [remembering that in many places all over the world, the mass deaths are already happening], this form of 'spirituality' [humans as God, each creating his/her personal light & love bubble] has increased dramatically, mostly in countries where, up till now, most of the people have lived in well-padded comfort --

a truly fearless human, a human truly grounded in Love, will have no problem in looking steadfastly at the whole ugly picture --sometimes it seems that some people are afraid that if they look at something ugly [Dulce; all the children being sold to sadistic perverts; our oceans dying; chemtrails; HAARP; DU; war upon war upon war; etc, etc, etc] , that something's going to jump out & get them

a truly fearless & loving human would also know that until we are all free , none of us is free -- i generally find such humans among political peace & justice activists, who know that it is NOT 'all good' for most who live on this planet -- they are also the most fear-free humans i have met

a quote on 'creating your own reality': 'Who among you by taking thought can add one cubit to his stature [height] ?' --Jesus

a quote on excluding 'negative' things from your own 'spirituality' [personal comfort]: 'Not knowing acts like guilt'-- Carl Jung

Peace & Freedom, wynderer
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:46 AM   #42
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Go Rocky Shorz! You are an inspiration!

At what point does facing reality become fear mongering? At what point does positive thinking become delusional and irresponsible? I like the concept of Positive Response Ability...wherein one faces reality with positive and negative thinking...and formulates positive responses and solutions.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
We have wandered of from the point of the thread which was really originally about doom and gloom posting which was based on very little or no evidence. Personal survival when face to face with the snake or whatever is a different ball game. However I think that its great that the tread has a life of its own and will go where ever it wills.
Lots of great posts.
Thanks Chris
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

well if you prefer I can quietly disappear from the discussion so it can go back to the evil Illuminati's plans to wipe out 98% of the world population, death Stars, aliens wanting to wipe out the planet, the complete destruction of the world financial system turning us all into paupers as the Military state takes over and tosses us into holding cells to turn us all into lizards... ;-)

My way of dealing with fear is by filling those around me with hope... but maybe this will help you all get back on topic again...
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:07 AM   #44
greybeard
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Its all about balance I think.
As mature people yes there are certain things that can affect us that we need to know.
Nothing is good or bad till thinking makes it so.
News, of it self, is just news but dwelling on it and keeping rumor going with out a shred of proof is of the ego. Ie Im the one that know listen to me. if its true and there is real evidence to support what you are saying then thats entirely different in my opinion. Thats a service to humanity.

Speaking of which, the link is to Dr David Hawkins publishers web site,
He had the largest psychiatric practice in the USA at one time.
His book "Power vs Force" is amazing.

http://www.veritaspub.com/

Have a look at the "about" on the web pages.
He has done a lot for humanity.

Chris
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

The book Power vs Force points out that the human mind is like the hard drive on a computer, it designed to be programed and then the problem arises that the human mind cant tell truth from false hood. Thats a big statement but fully explained and backed up by Dr Hawkins in the book and he should know.
Germany went to war because the population believed the propaganda put out by Goebbels.
He was the ultimate in fear mongering, he played on the basest of human thought.
He admitted if you told a lie often enough with conviction people would believe it.
So a fear ridden society is much easier to control.
So fear mongering has a very "bad" effect on the human mind.
Mongering means to sell. Selling fear cant be good.
There are accepted norms of what is helpful and supportive to life and that which is not.
Im just suggesting that we support true reporting and just dont follow or promote fallacious fearful stories.
Lots of positive good news here.
Chris
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:42 AM   #46
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz View Post
well if you prefer I can quietly disappear from the discussion so it can go back to the evil Illuminati's plans to wipe out 98% of the world population, death Stars, aliens wanting to wipe out the planet, the complete destruction of the world financial system turning us all into paupers as the Military state takes over and tosses us into holding cells to turn us all into lizards... ;-)

My way of dealing with fear is by filling those around me with hope... but maybe this will help you all get back on topic again...
Well Rocky im with you.
The purpose of the thread is to get off selling fear.
It just wanders off as is human.
Chris
Nammaste
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:44 AM   #47
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Go Rocky Shorz! You are an inspiration!

At what point does facing reality become fear mongering? At what point does positive thinking become delusional and irresponsible? I like the concept of Positive Response Ability...wherein one faces reality with positive and negative thinking...and formulates positive responses and solutions.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
Reality is factual, even if harrowing. Once emotions get mixed with it, like insecurity, panic, anxiety it stops being facts and becomes fearmongering

Positive thinking becomes delusional when it ignores the facts of the reality we are living in. It is part of cognitive disonance. Example: People are dieing of hunger, I don't want to know = we are all fine...we aren't really. Many of us can not do anything about that but we have to accept is part of Earth reality

Positive response may not be the answer always because it can be sometimes like brushing the things under the carpet. The best response comes from engaged detachment. It implies that we are aware of the facts of our reality and we have come to terms with the worse case scenario which brings inner peace by accepting what we can do and what it is beyond our possibilities to handle. It takes a lot of courage and deep breathing to do this

What is the problem here, there is a miss conception of what free speach means, that is all

It would be useful to have a clear definition of what Bill Ryan, the owner of avalon understands as "free speach" and which kind of posts are permited. Those are the facts, then individualy we can chose whether this place suits us or not

The Owner of this place has the right to arbitrarily, if he so choses, to change the rules too, there is no contractual agreements with the members other that to obey the regulations that the country this forum is has

"Rights" are a very slipery slope that most people do not understand. We believe we have rights but actualy we don't have any rights other than those given to us by common law if we can make them hold

Now as setient beings we could chose to be free of fear and to ponder our responses rather than knee jerk into saying something that we may regret later. That makes us conscious creators. We do not react, we act. That is fearlessness

Love
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:18 AM   #48
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

Im in total agreement with you Star.
Its not more free speech we need its freedom from speech as in speeching.
Freedom of speech brings responsibilities.
Politically correct has a lot to answer for, but thats another complex subject.
One mans ceiling another mans floor.
Its a question of the level one is at, ones own personal reality.
Anger for example is more positive than apathy.
ans so on up till there is an acceptance that what is, is.
That is not helpful to some one in apathy.
In psychiatry there is such a scale.
When a person is apathetic, they are not suicidal, they dont care enough to be suicidal.
When they move beyond apathy they, the patient, are watched closely, because they may go suicidal, till they get to anger, and then helped beyond that.

Different strokes for different folks.

the prayer that AA uses is.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

With respect for all points of view, as they reflect where the person is at this moment and is therefore valid, at least to them.
Chris
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #49
wynderer
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

it's interesting [to me] that you mentioned David Hawkins & 'Power vs Force, Greybeard -- i have a quote from that book in my email personal signature:

'There is no anti-depressant that will cure a depression that's spiritually based, for the malaise doesn't originate from brain dysfunction, but from an accurate response to the desecration of life.'

Peace & Freedom, wynderer
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:57 PM   #50
lawlessline
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Default Re: Fear Mongering. Get off it.

no fear no love just am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_puwOpH-EQ
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