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Old 12-15-2009, 08:07 PM   #1
Spregovori
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Default Free Will - just how far can it go?

Feel free to move thread somewhere else if this section is not ok.

I searched the forums and was unable to find this specific "thing" I wish to discuss. If I missed something, please let me know the url and delete this.

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So how far can we extend our free will? The sky is the limit? There is no limit? We can do whatever we want to do and get affected accordingly to our doings?

If I have a free will...is it possible for me to choose not to reincarnate again?

Is soul immortal? But what if I do not want it to be immortal? What if I wish to end all possible levels of my existence?

I for example...have no idea on what the "higher level of existence" is to be... I know and feel nothing about that - therefore I do not miss it.

But I am tired of what I know.

So if I truly have a free will, would it not be logical for me to have an option, of being able to make a decision on reincarnating again or not?

I am not saying I would want to become a ..what was it said...crystalline DNA based life form or anything like that.... I would never dare to ask for something I do not believe myself I deserve.

I just very simply wish to end the soul. My soul. No more spiritual body-no more any kind of physical body...no more anything..

So...can this choice be mine? Can I make a decision?

Your thoughts...

EDIT:typos
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:22 PM   #2
greybeard
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Hi
have a look at the ego thread some of the replies may help.
You have free will basically to say yes or no to what is.
You have the choice to acept your creator or reject but heaven help you if you do that -- smiling.
Choices are limited.
Even if you work hard to acheive some things no mtter how much you want them will not materialise.
Your existence is eternal so you have no choice on that one.
You can improve your existence.

No doubt you will get some wise answers here to your vaild questions.

Wishing you well
Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:25 PM   #3
Spregovori
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

So I have no choice on ending my soul?

I fail to see why I should live up to some amm Creators expectations...just because he/she/it created me.

And so if I reject my creator...than what? It will send me back to Earth to live another life?

If I have no free will I am getting this any way...so this creator has nothing to "threaten" me with... I can reject it at any time. Even now.

Last edited by Spregovori; 12-15-2009 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:56 PM   #4
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

My take:

Merge with what IS and your I will turn into I AM and you will "not have to go out anymore" as it says in revelations ~

Some will merge with their I AM and create a whole new I AM, some will merge with their I AM and BE that I AM but not be sent out anymore ~

Free Will is eternal ~ the choice is ours how we use it


And yes, we will Always reap as we sew, always ~ so surrender to the higher Will within because it knows right action that will reap abundance and Peace that passeth understanding ~ whereas our separate will, will of our ego, inevitably makes unenlightened decisions that lead to suffering


Separation is suffering, Oneness is beyond suffering ~ Peace that passeth understanding
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

14 I do try but am having hard time understanding you. It is possible I totally missed your point.

I am to merge with current existence and become I AM?

That would be some interesting form of abomination. Not what this world needs right now.

Merge the abomination with myself becoming something new or remain the same?

eternal yes...but IS IT applicable in all possible ways?

I wish to choose - not to exist any more in any possible way.

I have no motivation to...do the last part of your post....

In my words: I am asking Mr. Oneness to cut the strings on my puppet and let it be.
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:11 PM   #6
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

You are not your ego. Ego makes poor decisions when you choose not to Be.

Leads to suffering. Then no more desire to exist.

There is nothing wrong with this, only natural.

Let the ego cease to exist by observing it. The observer is at Peace.

Should u wish to cease to exist, observe yourself. Be the observer.

What is left is Pure consciousness ~ no thing ~ infinity ~

Suggestion: read Eckhart Tolle "Power of Now"
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

I feel that it can be done, the so called none existence, you would probably be cut of that is to say your conscience part will have no recollection of ever existing when you go back to your !AM , the prime creator it can make possibly the none memory for your part of the soul connection, your memories will be store in the memory of the creator but not for you as you would not exist as per say, if anything it would probably re rout your soul someplace else and you will not remember anything from this life.
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:27 PM   #8
Stardustaquarion
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Free will is just that, you are free to do whatever but no one is excempt of the law of action, reaction and consequence. That is the nature of this Universe

Cheers
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowstalker View Post
I feel that it can be done, the so called none existence, you would probably be cut of that is to say your conscience part will have no recollection of ever existing when you go back to your !AM , the prime creator it can make possibly the none memory for your part of the soul connection, your memories will be store in the memory of the creator but not for you as you would not exist as per say, if anything it would probably re rout your soul someplace else and you will not remember anything from this life.

Not good enough. I do not wish to be re-programmed.

Besides isn't it already like this?

One reincarnates without memory of past life? Nothing to regret about a previous life decisions - it is a poor system...lets people do "stuff" without thinking about them regretting it "later"

-----

14 I do not know how to observe myself... I can however see myself thinking. and I would only choose to end current existence under the condition I can later choose to also end my soul and be erased from history.

I am going to sleep now, it is 22:30 here atm. Will check this thread tomorrow.
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:31 PM   #10
Peace of mind
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Life here is just a learning stage.
Maybe you are just bored, probably just tired of all the BS in life, tired of sorting thru the mounds of confusing and conflicting information coming at you from all directions, tired of the way people act towards each other. It can be exhausting and upsetting, but it also enriches the soul if you recognize all the lessons and blessings that are attached to everything you encounter. Live your life to the fullest, love friends and foes for what they teach you. Control the ego so it doesn’t reside in adverse conditions. What you go thru here is to prepare you for the next phase into eternity. Don’t let the dealings of this temporary reality place limits upon you.
When your time is up and you still choose to have no parts of your experiences archived, I’m sure that can be arranged. Ask and you shall receive…but be careful what you wish for.

Peace
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:43 PM   #11
greybeard
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Hi again
If the Creator is rejected and that Love is allways available, then I have read that the soul goes to one of the lower astral realms, degrees of hell.

If this world is pergatorial then these places are many times worse.

Is there any chance you are suffering from depression?

I ask because I have felt similar to you.
Times I just couldent see the point of it all and felt unloved by God. I looked for oblivian in alcohol and paid a heavy price for that free will choice. A hell of my own making.
It was only when I had enough humility to ask for help that I got sober through AA and the God of my understanding.
If you are depressed see a Dr. or get help of some kind there is allways a way out of your own personal hell.

Best wishes
Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:54 PM   #12
Gnosis5
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spregovori View Post
So I have no choice on ending my soul?

I fail to see why I should live up to some amm Creators expectations...just because he/she/it created me.

And so if I reject my creator...than what? It will send me back to Earth to live another life?

If I have no free will I am getting this any way...so this creator has nothing to "threaten" me with... I can reject it at any time. Even now.
Can you model the concept that you yourself are the creator of every effect you are the receipt of? That is the operating definition of Creator -- wanted to create an effect [on himself] as Single Deity.

So he [you] had to create some space, some light, co-existence, some individuality, some awareness, truth, decency, ideas, a playing field, players, a game(s), ultimately some unconscioiusness, and I could go down the list, but it stacks up to everything you choose to be the receipt of NOW.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:47 AM   #13
RedeZra
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spregovori View Post
In my words: I am asking Mr. Oneness to cut the strings on my puppet and let it be.
It is possible to merge with Mr. Oneness

in fact that is the point


to step out of fantasy and enter Reality

which is One


that implies

there cannot be two

so it is One


all this time you thought you were you

with a body a name and a mind of it's own

Uniqe yes but different from the One no

it is Only One


for the One it matters not if our minds are still or not

It's point of view is above the clouds of confusion

but we might conjure up a thunderstorm

and blame our bad luck


we become what we think but we are not our thoughts

but the One

beyond the thoughts and the thinker


the One

Being Aware in Bliss

Last edited by RedeZra; 12-16-2009 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:17 AM   #14
Moxie
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

I think you are, in a round about way, stating by positing questions, that we may indeed Not have free will.

The term free will is so overused and really, I've not yet seen a good definition of what it means.

If I truly have free will, could I just decide or choose to become a professional thief? No, it's not in me to do that, that choice I do not have. Could I decide to be a sexual lover of my same gender? No, it's not in me, that is not an option for me to choose. Could I decide or choose to become not exist at all? No one can answer that now can they? Can I choose or decide for my body to stop functioning, for my heart to stop beating from pure thought?.... nope, don't think so.

Many speak as thought their their "personality" continues on. I say it does not. What exactly is left when your body is gone? What is the point of having "character" without a body?

If we are all made of the same stuff, that same stuff is left after your personality is dead and gone. I do not think that your personality continues to exist, but then again, what do I really know? Pure speculation.

I have no memories of another existence, nor, if I had subjective experiences of having been out of my body (which I have) does that prove that I would exist without my body. That's my take.

I don't think we have free will to the extent that most think we do.

But I do understand your stance Spregovori... and there is nothing wrong with wanting to no longer exist. I don't have an ethical or moral problem with your wanting that.

I don't think that anyone truly knows what happens when this body dies.

I know that I do not want to live in another state where every time that I eat something has to die. I would not ever want to create an existence where a being has to experience death either. I wonder
sometimes what sort of god created this existence....

but then, I'm just sputtering nonsense, it's okay to think and speculate.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardustaquarion View Post
Free will is just that, you are free to do whatever but no one is excempt of the law of action, reaction and consequence. That is the nature of this Universe
So I can not make any choice, I can only pick among the choices given to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace of mind View Post
Life here is just a learning stage.
Maybe you are just bored, probably just tired of all the BS in life, tired of sorting thru the mounds of confusing and conflicting information coming at you from all directions, tired of the way people act towards each other. It can be exhausting and upsetting, but it also enriches the soul if you recognize all the lessons and blessings that are attached to everything you encounter. Live your life to the fullest, love friends and foes for what they teach you. Control the ego so it doesn’t reside in adverse conditions. What you go thru here is to prepare you for the next phase into eternity. Don’t let the dealings of this temporary reality place limits upon you.
When your time is up and you still choose to have no parts of your experiences archived, I’m sure that can be arranged. Ask and you shall receive…but be careful what you wish for.

Peace
Very close if not a direct hit... I am tired of practically everything (including myself).

Also some very nice words but I have no motivation or ambition etc to do that. I know what I wish for. It is like sleep - without dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Hi again
If the Creator is rejected and that Love is allways available, then I have read that the soul goes to one of the lower astral realms, degrees of hell.

If this world is pergatorial then these places are many times worse.

Is there any chance you are suffering from depression?

I ask because I have felt similar to you.
Times I just couldent see the point of it all and felt unloved by God. I looked for oblivian in alcohol and paid a heavy price for that free will choice. A hell of my own making.
It was only when I had enough humility to ask for help that I got sober through AA and the God of my understanding.
If you are depressed see a Dr. or get help of some kind there is allways a way out of your own personal hell.

Best wishes
Chris
Worst place than earth? Is that possible? Well I admit...I live in Europe - one of the more privileged parts of this world. My ass is in a warm place, I have access to food and water, I can even go and buy myself Xbox360 with a nice big screen and some top games... Not like someone that has to search for drinkable water everyday and knows nothing about an item like Xbox.... But I do not care much about that either...

If there is no memory of past life...than I probably will not regret what I am doing now...and also the all good loving mighty one...will just have to do better than trying scarring me into "living up to expectations"

I might be...depends on how you define it. I do not drink alcohol..my father was an alcoholic...the memory is hard encoded so there will be no alcohol for me, I also do not smoke or do drugs...never did...I also do not do crime, do not fight (never did) etc... I have a job, I greet my neighbors, I visit my grandmother, I even let the old ladies to take my sit on the bus....I am a "good" little human....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnosis5 View Post
Can you model the concept that you yourself are the creator of every effect you are the receipt of? That is the operating definition of Creator -- wanted to create an effect [on himself] as Single Deity.

So he [you] had to create some space, some light, co-existence, some individuality, some awareness, truth, decency, ideas, a playing field, players, a game(s), ultimately some unconscioiusness, and I could go down the list, but it stacks up to everything you choose to be the receipt of NOW.
So I am the creator, I decide about everything regarding me? But if I am the creator...than you also are..and we are one...how can I than do what I want if I am a part of you an everyone else?

If I am the creator I choose in NOW to end my existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeZra View Post


It is possible to merge with Mr. Oneness

in fact that is the point


to step out of fantasy and enter Reality

which is One


that implies

there cannot be two

so it is One


all this time you thought you were you

with a body a name and a mind of it's own

Uniqe yes but different from the One no

it is Only One


for the One it matters not if our minds are still or not

It's point of view is above the clouds of confusion

but we might conjure up a thunderstorm

and blame our bad luck


we become what we think but we are not our thoughts

but the One

beyond the thoughts and the thinker


the One

Being Aware in Bliss
Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
I think you are, in a round about way, stating by positing questions, that we may indeed Not have free will.

The term free will is so overused and really, I've not yet seen a good definition of what it means.

If I truly have free will, could I just decide or choose to become a professional thief? No, it's not in me to do that, that choice I do not have. Could I decide to be a sexual lover of my same gender? No, it's not in me, that is not an option for me to choose. Could I decide or choose to become not exist at all? No one can answer that now can they? Can I choose or decide for my body to stop functioning, for my heart to stop beating from pure thought?.... nope, don't think so.

Many speak as thought their their "personality" continues on. I say it does not. What exactly is left when your body is gone? What is the point of having "character" without a body?

If we are all made of the same stuff, that same stuff is left after your personality is dead and gone. I do not think that your personality continues to exist, but then again, what do I really know? Pure speculation.

I have no memories of another existence, nor, if I had subjective experiences of having been out of my body (which I have) does that prove that I would exist without my body. That's my take.

I don't think we have free will to the extent that most think we do.

But I do understand your stance Spregovori... and there is nothing wrong with wanting to no longer exist. I don't have an ethical or moral problem with your wanting that.

I don't think that anyone truly knows what happens when this body dies.

I know that I do not want to live in another state where every time that I eat something has to die. I would not ever want to create an existence where a being has to experience death either. I wonder
sometimes what sort of god created this existence....

but then, I'm just sputtering nonsense, it's okay to think and speculate.
Yes..you are correct...this (among other things) is what I am stating. If I can not choose to end myself in all possible ways...I have no free will.. and at that moment...I could not care less for any "divine laws" etc

There never was a definition...there are only guesses...and perceptions of this on an individual personal level. Actually you can choose to be a thief or a same sex lover...nothing can stop you...but yourself.

Choosing to end the soul...now that is rather difficult if you do not know - how to do it.

Indeed...much if not all is just speculation.

What sort of a being created this existence? I could try to answer this but than the thread would get deleted due to the violation of verbal violence. and since I am at work now I do not have the necessary time to form the answer in acceptable manner.
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:48 PM   #16
RedeZra
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

free will

free to play within a sandbox


how free is a child from the parents...?

that is the relationship between us and the Creator


but who believes that

who believes in a FatherMother of all humanity

who wants to be a child


we all want to be grownups and we are not so good at it

Last edited by RedeZra; 12-16-2009 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
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free will

free to play within a sandbox


how free is a child from the parents...?

that is the relationship between us and the Creator
Sandbox? A program that emulates a computer in order to detect and disable a virus.

Child is always free from his parents...unless you count the child as property. But the child can be depended on his parents....which can either take good care of him and teach him...or f*** the child up in a way that not only he will not recover but he will also "put if forward" to his/her children... (the later is more common).

creator is a very bad parent...someone should call social services
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:02 PM   #18
Leunamros
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

free will goes, as far you want it to go, no matter if it don´t has consecuences over your reality. Control wannabes want it to be stickyed onto the fact you can´t have control unless you can actually control what you desire to be controlled, always failing miserably under that premise. They fail for a very good reason they haven´t discovered yet, though. They define free will under the limits of his own limited mind.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:07 PM   #19
RedeZra
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spregovori View Post
Sandbox? A program that emulates a computer in order to detect and disable a virus.
Or

a box that contains sand for children to play in


Can the child do whatever it wants ...no rules ...no repercussions ...?


Now our parents raises us while we grow up in a society with codes conducts and culture


How can you possibly blame this on the Creator...?
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:10 PM   #20
Stardustaquarion
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Spregovori, well at any one time we have 12 probabilities or choices, that is quite a lot of choices!!! Still the all oneness does not judge us so basically it is up to us

Contrary to popular belief the one that reincarnates is the soul and not the physical person, karma (good or bad) gets imprinted in the DNA as frequency acretion or decretion (up or down)

I think it is a wonderful system, it encourages to be thoughtfull and kind with all because all is the all oneness and we are the all oneness

Love
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeZra View Post


Or

a box that contains sand for children to play in


Can the child do whatever it wants ...no rules ...no repercussions ...?


Now our parents raises us while we grow up in a society with codes conducts and culture

How can you possibly blame this on the Creator...?
Child in a sandbox...a trapped animal... sandbox - a distraction...keep the child busy so the poor parents can have some time for themselves...

Child can do whatever it wants...he is not aware of the rules...at least...not until the rules hit him.

codes, moral, culture, laws...all artificial...all here to keep us apart, make us dance to the music we can not hear....

I hmm can not relate everything directly to the creator...it would be interesting to talk to him....face to face or how some say it - mano a mano



I can still joke...unbelievable....


I just wish to know how far I can extend my free will...when the time comes...either naturally or by my choosing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardustaquarion View Post
Spregovori, well at any one time we have 12 probabilities or choices, that is quite a lot of choices!!! Still the all oneness does not judge us so basically it is up to us

Contrary to popular belief the one that reincarnates is the soul and not the physical person, karma (good or bad) gets imprinted in the DNA as frequency acretion or decretion (up or down)

I think it is a wonderful system, it encourages to be thoughtfull and kind with all because all is the all oneness and we are the all oneness

Love
12 choices? Elaborate? Name - 1,2,3....?

I do not care if I get judged...or if it judges or not....if I have free will that does not concern me. My wish makes it irrelevant whether it judges or not...

We are as one?

Well yes...I no longer wish for my soul to get imprinted into anything or anyone... I seek to separate myself from the collective...unplug from the hive mind...

The point is in free will...do I have it in all possible meanings of the word or don't?

Since it is to be the base...the fundamental brick of everything that is (free will). If we do not have it...everything that was build on that brick...collapses...

Last edited by Spregovori; 12-16-2009 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:57 PM   #22
RedeZra
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spregovori View Post
Child in a sandbox...a trapped animal... sandbox - a distraction...keep the child busy so the poor parents can have some time for themselves...

Child can do whatever it wants...he is not aware of the rules...at least...not until the rules hit him.

codes, moral, culture, laws...all artificial...all here to keep us apart, make us dance to the music we can not hear....

you call a child playing in a sandbox for a trapped animal


children likes to play

alone or with others

without the annoying parents


the parents are there for the child

come comfort time and hunger


the child is not allowed to cross the streets alone or eat yellow snow lol


a society is the common ground of a group of people living together

without codes conducts culture we would have anarchy or harmony

depending on the people that makes up the society
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:09 PM   #23
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society is rotten

going to sleep now...the state when I am what I am...when all the horrors are unleashed

will be back tomorrow, make sure you do not eat yellow sow....what is that anyway...is that the snow someone urinated on? must taste like bad ice cream...
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:14 AM   #24
Stardustaquarion
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Default Re: Free Will - just how far can it go?

Spregovori, as per Keylonic Science this universal system is base twelve, we have 12 mayor chakras, 12 bodies, 12 chakras etc each manifested being in this planet has 12 provable selves until it choses a path to know itself.

Free will is the gift we all received to experience ourselves, that experience can take us to our self demise or to our self expansion

The principles that govern energy in the whole of creation are explained in the link below

http://www.azuritepress.com/techniqu...ibilities.html

For your post I realize that you are searching for freedom, that is my quest too. I have searched for the ultimate freedom, explore many avenues and my personal understanding is that it only comes from learning how to handle multidimensional energy, freedom is the ability to be whatever you want to be and be wherever you want to be at any time without constrictions. That kind of freedom comes only from self mastery.

I am currently studiying Keylontic Sciences and found most of the answers I was searching for, of course it is not everyone's path, but may be what you are looking for. It is not a easy path but it is a path of truth and expansion into self mastery

Love
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardustaquarion View Post
Spregovori, as per Keylonic Science this universal system is base twelve, we have 12 mayor chakras, 12 bodies, 12 chakras etc each manifested being in this planet has 12 provable selves until it choses a path to know itself.

Free will is the gift we all received to experience ourselves, that experience can take us to our self demise or to our self expansion

The principles that govern energy in the whole of creation are explained in the link below

http://www.azuritepress.com/techniqu...ibilities.html

For your post I realize that you are searching for freedom, that is my quest too. I have searched for the ultimate freedom, explore many avenues and my personal understanding is that it only comes from learning how to handle multidimensional energy, freedom is the ability to be whatever you want to be and be wherever you want to be at any time without constrictions. That kind of freedom comes only from self mastery.

I am currently studiying Keylontic Sciences and found most of the answers I was searching for, of course it is not everyone's path, but may be what you are looking for. It is not a easy path but it is a path of truth and expansion into self mastery

Love
While commendable I find this 12/24 commandments rather..."limiting"

By your stating I can get my "wish come true" ... I can detach myself from all that is and end this pathetic existence for ever...IF I attain self mastery?

That IF is rather bothering. It only raises more questions. Who made the rules? Who can break them? How to break them?

and IF there are more paths...than i suppose it is up to me to narrow down the options...which in a long run is counter productive...

I refuse to subjugate myself to rules and commandments in order to be able to have a free will since it is not really free than is it?

The only way a will can be free is if it is "given"...no questions asked...no demands issued...no expectations presented...no guilt induced...
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