Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? - Page 5

Swanny · 07-22-2009, 07:39 PM

The Native American Indian's were amazing people it's such a crime that our ancestors killed them

Northern Boy · 07-22-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudra

Native American Indian Traditional Code of Ethics

1)Each morning upon rising, and each evening before sleeping, give thanks for the life within you and for all life, for the good things the Creator has given you and for the opportunity to grow a little more each day. Consider your thoughts and actions of the past day and seek for the courage and strengthto be a better person. Seek for the things that will benefit others (everyone).

2)Respect. Respect means "To feel or show honor or esteem for someone or something; to consider the well being of, or to treat someone or somethin with deference or courtesy". Showing respect is a basic law of life.

a. Treat every person from the tiniest child to the oldest elder with respect at all times.

b. Special respect should be given to Elders, Parents, Teachers, and Community Leaders.

c. No person should be made to feel "put down" by you; avoid hurting other hearts as you would avoid a deadly poison.

d. Touch nothing that belongs to someone else (especially Sacred Objects) without permission, or an understanding between you.

e. Respect the privacy of every person, never intrude on a person's quiet moment or personal space.

f. Never walk between people that are conversing.

g. Never interrupt people who are conversing.

h. Speak in a soft voice, especially when you are in the presence of Elders, strangers or others to whom special respect is due.

i. Do not speak unless invited to do so at gatherings where Elders are present (except to ask what is expected of you, should you be in doubt).

j. Never speak about others in a negative way, whether they are present or not.

k. Treat the earth and all of her aspects as your mother. Show deep respect for the mineral world, the plant world, and the animal world. Do nothing to pollute our Mother, rise up with wisdom to defend her.

l. Show deep respect for the beliefs and religion of others.

m. Listen with courtesy to what others say, even if you feel that what they are saying is worthless. Listen with your heart.

n. Respect the wisdom of the people in council. Once you give an idea to a council meeting it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the people. Respect demands that you listen intently to the ideas of others in council and that you do not insist that your idea prevail. Indeed you should freely support the ideas of others if they are true and good, even if those ideas ideas are quite different from the ones you have contributed. The clash of ideas brings forth the Spark of Truth.

3)Once a council has decided something in unity, respect demands that no one speak secretly against what has been decided. If the council has made an error, that error will become apparent to everyone in its own time.

4)Be truthful at all times, and under all conditions.

5)Always treat your guests with honor and consideration. Give of your best food, your best blankets, the best part of your house, and your best service to your guests.

6)The hurt of one is the hurt of all, the honor of one is the honor of all.

7)Receive strangers and outsiders with a loving heart and as members of the human family.

8)All the races and tribes in the world are like the different colored flowers of one meadow. All are beautiful. As children of the Creator they must all be respected.

9)To serve others, to be of some use to family, community, nation, and the world is one of the main purposes for which human beings have been created. Do not fill yourself with your own affairs and forget your most important talks. True happiness comes only to those who dedicate their lives to the service of others.

10)Observe moderation and balance in all things.

11)Know those things that lead to your well-being, and those things that lead to your destruction.

12)Listen to and follow the guidance given to your heart. Expect guidance to come in many forms; in prayer, in dreams, in times of quiet solitude, and in the words and deeds of wise Elders and friends.

These people have lived together in communities for centuries.
There is a lot I found to learn from their wisdom.

Feel the love

Loving kindness
mudra

All this information and more can be found at this web page

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

artvision · 07-22-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernSantuary

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

Please confirm people, you were able to download.

I took a quick look at it (I'm at work), and the code of ethics looks very good, well thought out. Is this based on your thoughts or actual native code of ethics, Artvision?

Hi NorthernSantuary,

No is not mine, the Native Indians Ethic Codes were bring by Mudra, in a previous post (few posts upper than mine).
It is a very pure and untainted Ethics code, that would be a good guidance in behaving in an Radiant Zone, I mean I would be very pleased if people would treat me in that mode.

My only contribution was taking the information from linear, listing form and making as a MindMap, more easy for human brain to grasp it, make connections between words, join ideas in a more organic and fluid flow; easy for memorising, easy for brainstorming. There is the advantage of having the Big Picture and the smalles detail, in one shot, in front of you, no need scrolling.

I was just to make a point for the tool we may work together, if you guys agree.

So, work from yesterday and today I finalized that draft, called
RadiantZoneStructure.pdf, which is the backbone of the organisation of the Radiant Zone, in my opinion.

So, I a draft is just done, but I urge people install free software called VUE (for Win, Linux and Mac), as we can exchange ideas, we can add, delete and bring our directly contribution to this Radiant Zone Guidance. Could be used for lots of other data representing purposes, such Project Management, Brain Storming, Problem Solving, etc

We can play with it in a graphical format and when we consider is finished and is OK, we can then transform in linear form, such an outline or a list.
Seems that besides Mudra and you, nobody gave any feedback.

mudra · 07-22-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Boy

All this information and more can be found at this web page

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

Northern Boy this is the site I found it myself.
I omitted to give the link.
Thank you

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra · 07-22-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvision

I would highly appreciate to confirm if you can open now!

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_I...iansEthic.html

All fine now Artvision.
This gives a good overview indeed !
Thank you

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra · 07-23-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Boy

So any one openly throwing out the promise of come and live on my land is out there as far as I can see. It was never his to begin with you are merely adding value to something the current government in America plans to take from its citizens regardless of how much money they own

We are trying to end the current system of taxing slave labour for existence not perpetuate it

As an additionnal thought thinking that one owns a land is an illusion. Governments are just letting you borrow a land they consider their own property and tax you for it .
This being what it is for the time being it's not so much the fact that one " owns " a land that is important but rather what one does with this piece of land and how one lives on it. .Are we preserving the land and it's sacredness or are we merely utilizing it without soul and thought. Are we caring for our fellow beings and all life and living towards unity or are we just caring for ourselves in separateness.

Loving kindness
mudra

WinterWolf · 07-23-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudra

TtC I believe it would be wise to reiterate your original proposition here as I believe many here have'nt read it before.
Would you do this for us?
Thank you .

Loving kindness
mudra

Wise? If I remember correctly, he was told to stop the recruiting by a Mod.

I've read the Proposition thread and there were quite a few detractors. From what was posted by various folk, it made Ttc seem rather dodgy.

artvision · 07-23-2009, 06:22 AM

Dears,

The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this.

Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better.

So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall.

So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot.

Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped?

Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us.

Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing.

We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision.

Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan.

We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not.

Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety.

If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life.

So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others.

But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families.

For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment.

Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation.

So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people?

WinterWolf · 07-23-2009, 08:31 AM

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

Playing Devil's Advocate Winter Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvision

Dears,

The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this.

Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better.

So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall.

So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot.

Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped?

Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us.

Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing.

We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision.

Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan.

We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not.

Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety.

If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life.

So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others.

But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families.

For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment.

Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation.

So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people?

Carmen · 07-23-2009, 08:43 AM

I have for some time been looking at models of community living which fit with my vision of what future enlightened/spiritual society will be. To me it cannot be anything like what we have had in our recent past! I am also loath to have it all written down like laws and statutes to be adhered to and enforced!! This may sound to be naive and idealistic to not have written rules and laws but its in line with how I have worked in the last few years.

Phtha's thread of the interview with Sheldon Nidle backed up my ideas. I will attempt to outline some of them and welcome feedback. Up to this point I have only implemented what I call this new way of working in the theatre (producing/directing) and in staging a horse event/parade/celebration day. I dont think my ideas are new, I think they are being applied in many areas. I applied them instinctively to something I'd never done before.

In both cases I was a somewhat reluctant leader/boss and extremely nervous about the position I was put in and my abilities. First of all I developed and held in my mind the vision of an excellent show/event. I shared that vision with all the people involved. I had their attention as they had to share the vision or it would not work. With the theatre I told them I did not want any talking behind my back. I wanted all critisizm to be addressed to me plus all ideas that the cast had. I received little or no critisism as all ideas were listened to and tried out to see if they worked!

Everyones creativity went into our show, and the level of energy, enthusasim and excellence surpassed all that I could have hoped for. I had the final say but all were in accord and all contributed their special talents.

This way of working is sort of in line with what Sheldon Nidle spoke about. That in any community there is leader or a panel of leaders. (Im not sure whether one or a panel is best) The leader or leaders have to be wise and experienced( To be in touch and guided by their Inner Self.) This person or persons hold the vision for the community and share it with all.

Everyone has their special gifts and talents that is unique to them. When any skill or talent is needed at any one time that person becomes the leader, and the rest follow and learn. When that particular activity is completed and something else is needed then the person best suited for the task steps forward and takes on the leader role. So, you see, everyone becomes a leader at some time and everyone is also a follower at other times.

As I said first off this is something formed and also still forming. The Indian guidelines and rules seem to be quite in line with how I see a successful community organisation. I think these ideas are naturally in place now at the higher levels of consciousness. Its just a matter of listening in and downloading them to our brains.

Love and Light

Carmen

Carmen · 07-23-2009, 08:59 AM

Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject.

Cheers

Carmen

rhythm · 07-23-2009, 09:38 AM

Carmen your words

are full of your truth

and you are im sure your going to attract

your tribe ....without to much effort

and they will be all

chiefs.... and no indians

i mean this resectfully

i mean by this .. that

a circle of chiefs

do not need A ..chief.....

in service to the one rhythmmm ..

Anchor · 07-23-2009, 09:54 AM

I want to thank everyone for this thread, it is fascinating.

I want to share my vision of the future.

I see governance in the golden age of the future is going to be somewhat simpler than lists of organizational principles or rules. I have seen some examples of good rules in this thread but I maintain they are not really necessary. I think people know what is right, especially the sorts of people who will "inherit the Earth", if you know what I mean.

Free people's main aim in life will be that their neighbours fare well and prosper. These people will be almost completely "service to others oriented", and thus form a society that will not require "rules.

I have seen a quote purportedly from a high being which reads some-thing like "Take your brothers need as a measure for your action" - how much simpler can it be?

Yes it is anarchy! Non-government is basically what I am talking about, but it is a special kind of anarchy - pure, illuminated and tempered by the fact that its constituents are peaceful, harmonious and share love for all.

Leaders will be temporary, instinctively elected for a set purpose simply for organizational efficiency and not personal aggrandizement or for any power or lifestyles advantages. The processes surrounding this will be transparent and honest. A group would say let's build this house/barn here and the team would form and organize based on the group consensus and need of the moment. Somewhat Amish in style but with less reliance on old traditions and customs, but more on an instinctive and shared intuitive knowledge of the needs of the moment.

I have complete faith in the power of humanity to bring about such perfection on Earth and we here are a small part of that process.

A..

mudra · 07-23-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinterWolf

Wise? If I remember correctly, he was told to stop the recruiting by a Mod.

I've read the Proposition thread and there were quite a few detractors. From what was posted by various folk, it made Ttc seem rather dodgy.

I welcome everyone on this thread WinterWolf
True discernement comes from pursuing unity in our interchanges with each other not from reacting on content.

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision · 07-23-2009, 12:51 PM

Dear WinterWolf,

Thank you for your feedback!

I put your remarks with lime green!

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups:
- the perils/menaces/dangers
- the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats

I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc

For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us.

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth.
I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now.

If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum.

Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built!

And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism.

Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme:

Just at grand ideas and nothing practically.

If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place.
As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us.

Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God?

prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12]

I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose.

Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans.

Everybody will have what will search after:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7]

So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others.

I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve.

According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be:
Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone

This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation.

For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE

That is I tried to do, in that document here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution.
I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive.

Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas.

After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone.

Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise.

As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing:

1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked)
2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify)
3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information
4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements
5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good

So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude.

Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum.

Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks.

Oliver · 07-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Friends,
Here is my humbly thinking about how the radiant zone/community should be built. I am intentionally not extensive with the explications, but I am ready to explain to anybody who is not clear with something written here.
I firmly believe that life in the group is not possible without some rules, written or spoken. Higher densities also have rules. Universe is build upon rules…The point is to keep our rules as much as possible close to the Universe’s rules, which, in my opinion, is a state of governing of the high conscious and free will, and maximally relativisation of the leadership and ownership – two main ego-manifestations in this world. Because of that I tried to mix some elements of different systems. If we prevail ego in the relations inside the community – it will be successful.
What is most important for me is that this kind of organization should be temporary, until coming of what we are all expecting, but we don’t know how it will look.
I am not pretending that this is the best model, far from it, it is just a draft, my actual thinking and contributing. Also, there are other topics that should be discussed, but in some other occasion.

Love and Respect

RADIANT ZONE COMMUNITY (TRANSITIONAL MODEL)

BASIC VALUES: Conscious, Love, Peace, Freedom, Truth, Justice, Service to others, Respect, Nature, Beauty, Spiritual growth/Enlightenment.

CRITERION FOR THE VALUES: Universal positive human legacy. Knowledge. Wisdom. Collective intuition.

AUTHORITY: Total democracy mixed with Native American Indians way and elements of anarchy. For all of the issues of importance for the community, all of the members are voting. One member one vote. There must be minimum 2/3 majority for every issue to pass. If there is no solution with 2/3 majority voting after 2 voting circles, then 3-9 elders members (Council of Elders) of the community will take the decision. Council of Elders is also a coordinative body for the voting process. Everyone has the right to propose voting issue. Every proposal will be voted.

OWNERSHIP: Community belongs to all of its members equally. Everyone participate with what he/her has. Investors own their buildings. They have no other special rights above the rest of the members. Food and water are collective own. Everyone has right on individual possession of cloth and elementary stuff.

MEMBERSHIP: New members are welcomed. Before getting full membership, they should pass the test period.

STRUCTURE: Community has society branches (education, healthcare, technology etc.) depending by the capacity of the membership. All of the branches are based upon the BASIC VALUES, specially the education. Branches are evolving in accordance with the nature environment.

CONTRIBUTION: Everyone is contributing (labor, security, education etc.) according to his/her abilities and his/her conscious. If somebody obviously abuse the confidence, he/her will be (first) warn by the Council of Elders, and if continue will be voted to leave the community.

DEFENSE&SECURITY: Everyone is included into the defense of the community, according to the occasion. Defense matter is guided by the person who is most experienced and specialized about the matter. He is woted for this position after the proposal of the Council of Elders, and his leading position is valid only when defense is required.

mudra · 07-23-2009, 03:11 PM

Anchor and Carmen ,

I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you.
Given consistent love things can only blossom.
We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen.

Artvision and Oliver

I agree some guide lines should be discussed and establised collectively while undergoing transition .
Rules or codes should act as a map or compass to remind us gently of our inner nature which is love and service to all.

loving kindness
mudra

mudra · 07-23-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmen

Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject.

Cheers

Carmen

I am interested to know this as well. Please share your own views with us .

Loving kindness
mudra

Northern Boy · 07-23-2009, 04:51 PM

Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows

mudra · 07-23-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Boy

Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows

This is the purpose of this thread Northern Boy : that all that have experience with communities or want to set one up come and gather here to share their ideas and exchange their knowledge and wisdom.
Day is welcome to the thread . I'll inform her that it exists.

Loving kindness
mudra

Anchor · 07-23-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudra

I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you.
Given consistent love things can only blossom.
We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen.

Thankyou for your kind comment.

I would only add, that even though it will have its rough spots, it is important that we enjoy the trip towards our Golden future!

Joy is supremely important. Without it the patience required (implying passage of third dimensional time and the flowing of the rivers of cause and effect) will be too much for anyone to bear. Nor can we sit back and wait for it all to happen! Action is necessary.

I don't mean to imply that care is not necessary either - we do walk a treacherous and challenging path. Traps and diversions beset us, but those that sincerley follow their inner light and those who are not afraid to ask for help, will be guided and protected as necessary. Even when mistakes are made, they will not be deceived or misled by anyone for long.

A..

07-23-2009, 11:41 PM

A voice of reason, yes any community will need hard work from it's prospective members and it will not be easy. I'm glad to see this is pointed out.

Would you please elaborate on the traps and treachery and how prospective members will be protected?

Thank you.

ovsalf · 07-24-2009, 01:19 AM

What a pleasure to read you all on this thread. Probably like many others, it takes all my available time to just follow the exchanges and meditate on the profound wisdom generously and respectfully shared here.

From what I see in the numerous comments done so far in this thread, it is clear that the era of the lonely wolf has ended. A critical mass of like-minded people is already creating a virtual community, which will be materialized into various Radiant Zones, all connected by a spirit of good will and a dedication to spiritual evolution. As a result, much more synergy will be generated than if we maintain our isolated efforts.

Every thing easing team work will also help to initiate a chain reaction that increases awareness and will allow to free humanity from traps and treachery. In practise, each RZ will contribute to demonstrate that another way of living is possible, that a better world can quickly emerge, and that each individual is really important. Given that we are all connected in some unknown ways, I strongly believe that most people outside RZ communities will be indirectly influenced in a very positive manner by the success and evolution within the RZ (please see item #63 that Mudra has posted in this thread - The hundredth Monkey).

Ovsalf

WinterWolf · 07-24-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudra

I welcome everyone on this thread WinterWolf
True discernement comes from pursuing unity in our interchanges with each other not from reacting on content.

Loving kindness
mudra

Wisdom comes from being able to use ones own counsel and using all five senses and the sixth sense if one has one; to make ones own judgement on what is good for you.

You and you alone should decide what choices you make from the options presented.

Think not with just the heart but with the mind and soul. Take counsel with yourself and see if what you have learned truly resonates with you.

We are all individuals beings with our own thoughts and consciousness.

Some paths can be strewn with thorns and danger and others can be safe. I am merely shining a light upon the paths so that others can see the way for themselves. Pick as they will for it is theirs to choose as THEY will.

I am never alone.

Winter Wolf

WinterWolf · 07-24-2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchor

Thankyou for your kind comment.

I would only add, that even though it will have its rough spots, it is important that we enjoy the trip towards our Golden future!

Joy is supremely important. Without it the patience required (implying passage of third dimensional time and the flowing of the rivers of cause and effect) will be too much for anyone to bear. Nor can we sit back and wait for it all to happen! Action is necessary.

I don't mean to imply that care is not necessary either - we do walk a treacherous and challenging path. Traps and diversions beset us, but those that sincerley follow their inner light and those who are not afraid to ask for help, will be guided and protected as necessary. Even when mistakes are made, they will not be deceived or misled by anyone for long.

A..

So. Those who do not know what that inner light is and hence are not following it will just be left by the wayside with no help at hand? These people who can not see their own inner light are not all bad individuals. They simply can not see. Will they not be guided and protected as well?

Oh wait..perhaps people are already doing that...guiding and offering protection to those who do not clearly see their own inner light....

Winter Wolf

07-22-2009, 07:39 PM	#101
Swanny I dont need a label ! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Shire of Wilt Posts: 2,889	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? The Native American Indian's were amazing people it's such a crime that our ancestors killed them

07-23-2009, 06:22 AM	#108
artvision Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 328	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Dears, The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this. Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better. So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall. So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot. Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped? Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us. Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing. We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision. Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan. We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not. Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety. If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life. So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others. But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families. For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment. Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation. So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people? Last edited by artvision; 07-23-2009 at 06:35 AM.

07-23-2009, 08:43 AM	#110
Carmen Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 992	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? I have for some time been looking at models of community living which fit with my vision of what future enlightened/spiritual society will be. To me it cannot be anything like what we have had in our recent past! I am also loath to have it all written down like laws and statutes to be adhered to and enforced!! This may sound to be naive and idealistic to not have written rules and laws but its in line with how I have worked in the last few years. Phtha's thread of the interview with Sheldon Nidle backed up my ideas. I will attempt to outline some of them and welcome feedback. Up to this point I have only implemented what I call this new way of working in the theatre (producing/directing) and in staging a horse event/parade/celebration day. I dont think my ideas are new, I think they are being applied in many areas. I applied them instinctively to something I'd never done before. In both cases I was a somewhat reluctant leader/boss and extremely nervous about the position I was put in and my abilities. First of all I developed and held in my mind the vision of an excellent show/event. I shared that vision with all the people involved. I had their attention as they had to share the vision or it would not work. With the theatre I told them I did not want any talking behind my back. I wanted all critisizm to be addressed to me plus all ideas that the cast had. I received little or no critisism as all ideas were listened to and tried out to see if they worked! Everyones creativity went into our show, and the level of energy, enthusasim and excellence surpassed all that I could have hoped for. I had the final say but all were in accord and all contributed their special talents. This way of working is sort of in line with what Sheldon Nidle spoke about. That in any community there is leader or a panel of leaders. (Im not sure whether one or a panel is best) The leader or leaders have to be wise and experienced( To be in touch and guided by their Inner Self.) This person or persons hold the vision for the community and share it with all. Everyone has their special gifts and talents that is unique to them. When any skill or talent is needed at any one time that person becomes the leader, and the rest follow and learn. When that particular activity is completed and something else is needed then the person best suited for the task steps forward and takes on the leader role. So, you see, everyone becomes a leader at some time and everyone is also a follower at other times. As I said first off this is something formed and also still forming. The Indian guidelines and rules seem to be quite in line with how I see a successful community organisation. I think these ideas are naturally in place now at the higher levels of consciousness. Its just a matter of listening in and downloading them to our brains. Love and Light Carmen

07-23-2009, 08:59 AM	#111
Carmen Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 992	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject. Cheers Carmen

07-23-2009, 09:38 AM	#112
rhythm Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: devon england Posts: 1,905	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? *Carmen your words* *are full of your truth* *and you are im sure your going to attract* *your tribe ....without to much effort* *and they will be all* *chiefs.... and no indians* *i mean this resectfully* *i mean by this .. that* *a circle of chiefs* *do not need A ..chief.....* *in service to the one rhythmmm ..*

07-23-2009, 09:54 AM	#113
Anchor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 2,280	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? I want to thank everyone for this thread, it is fascinating. I want to share my vision of the future. I see governance in the golden age of the future is going to be somewhat simpler than lists of organizational principles or rules. I have seen some examples of good rules in this thread but I maintain they are not really necessary. I think people know what is right, especially the sorts of people who will "inherit the Earth", if you know what I mean. Free people's main aim in life will be that their neighbours fare well and prosper. These people will be almost completely "service to others oriented", and thus form a society that will not require "rules. I have seen a quote purportedly from a high being which reads some-thing like "Take your brothers need as a measure for your action" - how much simpler can it be? Yes it is anarchy! Non-government is basically what I am talking about, but it is a special kind of anarchy - pure, illuminated and tempered by the fact that its constituents are peaceful, harmonious and share love for all. Leaders will be temporary, instinctively elected for a set purpose simply for organizational efficiency and not personal aggrandizement or for any power or lifestyles advantages. The processes surrounding this will be transparent and honest. A group would say let's build this house/barn here and the team would form and organize based on the group consensus and need of the moment. Somewhat Amish in style but with less reliance on old traditions and customs, but more on an instinctive and shared intuitive knowledge of the needs of the moment. I have complete faith in the power of humanity to bring about such perfection on Earth and we here are a small part of that process. A.. Last edited by Anchor; 07-23-2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Reworked some sentences.

07-23-2009, 12:51 PM	#115
artvision Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 328	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Dear WinterWolf, Thank you for your feedback! I put your remarks with lime green! Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green. So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative? Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information? Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory? I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference. Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups: - the perils/menaces/dangers - the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us. The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff. Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone. I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth. I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now. If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum. Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built! And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism. Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme: Just at grand ideas and nothing practically. If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums. Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me. Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place. As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us. Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God? prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12] I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose. Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans. Everybody will have what will search after: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7] So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others. I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people. Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them? I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve. According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be: Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation. For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE That is I tried to do, in that document here: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871 A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution. I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive. Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas. After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone. Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise. As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing: 1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked) 2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify) 3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information 4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements 5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude. Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum. Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks. Last edited by artvision; 07-23-2009 at 01:13 PM.

07-23-2009, 02:23 PM	#116
Oliver Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Gaia Posts: 893	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Friends, Here is my humbly thinking about how the radiant zone/community should be built. I am intentionally not extensive with the explications, but I am ready to explain to anybody who is not clear with something written here. I firmly believe that life in the group is not possible without some rules, written or spoken. Higher densities also have rules. Universe is build upon rules…The point is to keep our rules as much as possible close to the Universe’s rules, which, in my opinion, is a state of governing of the high conscious and free will, and maximally relativisation of the leadership and ownership – two main ego-manifestations in this world. Because of that I tried to mix some elements of different systems. If we prevail ego in the relations inside the community – it will be successful. What is most important for me is that this kind of organization should be temporary, until coming of what we are all expecting, but we don’t know how it will look. I am not pretending that this is the best model, far from it, it is just a draft, my actual thinking and contributing. Also, there are other topics that should be discussed, but in some other occasion. Love and Respect RADIANT ZONE COMMUNITY (TRANSITIONAL MODEL) BASIC VALUES: Conscious, Love, Peace, Freedom, Truth, Justice, Service to others, Respect, Nature, Beauty, Spiritual growth/Enlightenment. CRITERION FOR THE VALUES: Universal positive human legacy. Knowledge. Wisdom. Collective intuition. AUTHORITY: Total democracy mixed with Native American Indians way and elements of anarchy. For all of the issues of importance for the community, all of the members are voting. One member one vote. There must be minimum 2/3 majority for every issue to pass. If there is no solution with 2/3 majority voting after 2 voting circles, then 3-9 elders members (Council of Elders) of the community will take the decision. Council of Elders is also a coordinative body for the voting process. Everyone has the right to propose voting issue. Every proposal will be voted. OWNERSHIP: Community belongs to all of its members equally. Everyone participate with what he/her has. Investors own their buildings. They have no other special rights above the rest of the members. Food and water are collective own. Everyone has right on individual possession of cloth and elementary stuff. MEMBERSHIP: New members are welcomed. Before getting full membership, they should pass the test period. STRUCTURE: Community has society branches (education, healthcare, technology etc.) depending by the capacity of the membership. All of the branches are based upon the BASIC VALUES, specially the education. Branches are evolving in accordance with the nature environment. CONTRIBUTION: Everyone is contributing (labor, security, education etc.) according to his/her abilities and his/her conscious. If somebody obviously abuse the confidence, he/her will be (first) warn by the Council of Elders, and if continue will be voted to leave the community. DEFENSE&SECURITY: Everyone is included into the defense of the community, according to the occasion. Defense matter is guided by the person who is most experienced and specialized about the matter. He is woted for this position after the proposal of the Council of Elders, and his leading position is valid only when defense is required. Last edited by Oliver; 07-23-2009 at 03:53 PM.

07-23-2009, 03:11 PM	#117
mudra Avalon Spiritual Mother Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: belgium Posts: 4,919	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Anchor and Carmen , I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you. Given consistent love things can only blossom. We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen. Artvision and Oliver I agree some guide lines should be discussed and establised collectively while undergoing transition . Rules or codes should act as a map or compass to remind us gently of our inner nature which is love and service to all. loving kindness mudra

07-23-2009, 04:51 PM	#119
Northern Boy Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: On this Rock Posts: 1,390	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows

07-23-2009, 11:41 PM	#122
sleepingnomore Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? A voice of reason, yes any community will need hard work from it's prospective members and it will not be easy. I'm glad to see this is pointed out. Would you please elaborate on the traps and treachery and how prospective members will be protected? Thank you.

07-24-2009, 01:19 AM	#123
ovsalf Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 16	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? What a pleasure to read you all on this thread. Probably like many others, it takes all my available time to just follow the exchanges and meditate on the profound wisdom generously and respectfully shared here. From what I see in the numerous comments done so far in this thread, it is clear that the era of the lonely wolf has ended. A critical mass of like-minded people is already creating a virtual community, which will be materialized into various Radiant Zones, all connected by a spirit of good will and a dedication to spiritual evolution. As a result, much more synergy will be generated than if we maintain our isolated efforts. Every thing easing team work will also help to initiate a chain reaction that increases awareness and will allow to free humanity from traps and treachery. In practise, each RZ will contribute to demonstrate that another way of living is possible, that a better world can quickly emerge, and that each individual is really important. Given that we are all connected in some unknown ways, I strongly believe that most people outside RZ communities will be indirectly influenced in a very positive manner by the success and evolution within the RZ (please see item #63 that Mudra has posted in this thread - The hundredth Monkey). Ovsalf

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