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09-27-2008, 05:18 AM | #26 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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09-27-2008, 05:36 AM | #27 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
You can also find it as paint. This is a technology waiting
to happen. Entire floors or walls of this stuff. They are making fireman's plastic hardhats with it to make them easy to see in a smoke filled room. In the first five minutes it is almost bright enough to read by. Then it lingers visibly to the night adjusted eye for 12 hours or more. We live in the country. Pitch black at night. We put three small tabs of tape on each of our stairs. At night it lights up like an airport runway. Fumbling in the dark for the light switch? Never again. Ever lost your car in a dark parking lot? Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-27-2008 at 05:39 AM. |
09-27-2008, 06:24 AM | #28 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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It sounds very powerful but I was wondering if strontium isn't a radio active isotope ? So I am not sure if it's completely safe for your health and the environment. Is there any info coming along with this product ? I was also wondering how the steam generator was powered ... the clip does not show what it used as fuel. A steam powered generator may work very well in my case. There's lots of bio mass waste to burn in close vicinity. And I have created a parabolic mirror once to boil water using solar power. Very effective ... you don't even need that much sunlight. Cheers |
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09-27-2008, 06:31 AM | #29 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
B.t.w. Baggywrinkle,
Were you talking about a water tower before ? I may have an idea for you: if you vaporize water using whatever fuel you have available or the solar power I just mentioned in my previous post it will rise upward by itself. Then you condense it on a higher level .... That may work to lift water a couple of feet up Cheers |
09-27-2008, 07:09 AM | #30 |
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Re: Biogas & Steam
The Canadian Tire solar panels rust around the terminal contacts and don't last. Their products are too cheap.
Steam engines are a last alternative to generate electricity from burning wood. LED lighting is the most efficient; they are expensive now, but lasts for many years, may be decades (tens of thousands of hours). Solar panel breakthroughs will eventually reduce the cost, but the pole shift scenario will cover the sun for years; the same senario will give lots of rain, so hydro would be good where you have changes in elevation. The ZPE device is the answer if we can find the solution before the SHTF. |
09-27-2008, 01:33 PM | #31 |
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Keel-kooled refrigeration
Most refrigeration systems require a condensing unit that throws off the heat. The keel-kooled unit is installed underneath the boat so that the heat disipates in the water. The colder the water, the more efficient the unit. Normal boat refrigeration systems have two pumps. One cools the unit by pumping water into the boat. One pumps refrigerant through the system. Two pumps take a lot of power.
With a keel-kooled unit, the compressor is the only pump. It pumps refrigerant through the keel-kooler, keeping the heat outside, thus increasing efficiency AND no need for water inside the boat. Much safer, no leaks, no sinking the boat. We built a chest-type refrigerator, highly insulated, or you could choose a large unit sold through Boater's World that holds ice for up to a week. You mount the Fridg-O-Boat unit inside the box. Again, a DIY project. J can work on it and troubleshoot, a major benefit. This is, of course, a 12V set-up. It could be used with 24 V. If you had running water, or a pond, nearby, you could use this technology on land. We put the unit in a bucket of water with a small amount of fresh water going in before we could install it underneath. Worked fine. It provides excellent refrigeration for very little power. We have seen units that utilize the earth in a similar way. (Installed underground where the temperature remains at a constant cooler temperature) DON'T FORGET LED LIGHTS! This is space-ship technology that continues to improve. Takes so little power, it hardly registers on the e-meter. |
09-27-2008, 04:08 PM | #32 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
The two compounds in these long acting photoluminescent
pigments are strontium and europium. They are not radioactive and are cousins to the luminescent zinc oxide of our youth. These are much brighter and longer lived then the zinc compounds. examples of products using these compounds. Move your mouse over the photos in the link below http://www.ez-bright.co.jp/en/products/products.html Any source of heat will make steam. That engine will run on government paperwork! My train of thought would be to use biogas (methane) generated from decomposing organic matter. True sustainable permaculture in action. This would be best done at a community level rather than an individual level. Think city sewage plant. The methane is there waiting to be utilized. On a farm using the already available manure/humanure which must be disposed of anyway, is also highly viable. The process produces fuel for heating and highly valuable compost for crops. It is also independent of centralized control Refrigeration. An already perfected technology exists using ammonia as the refrigerant. Any heat source; kerosene, propane, natural gas, biogas, heats the ammonia and starts the cooling cycle. There are no moving parts! http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm I have lusted for a propane refrigerator like this one made by the Amish http://www.propanerefrigerator.com/ but they are not mass produced, and are therefore very expensive (2-3000 dollars). Their consumption of propane/kerosene is also fairly dear. The second issue could be circumvented by using one configured for natural gas and piping home made biogas into it. Voila! Sustainable refrigeration that will last as long as your livestock produce manure! Once again, this technology would best be implemented at a community level. Aspects of the technology are time intensive - you don't fire up a steam engine and just walk away and leave it. It needs watching and tending. In a radiant zone community this would be one of the many regular chores to be done to make a community work. Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-27-2008 at 04:23 PM. |
09-27-2008, 06:37 PM | #33 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
THANKS EVERYBODY! many great suggestions here.
I am at a disadvantage in having an old computer that cannot handle youtube ... so, those who gave youtube references ... do you have any other link to the same material? Something that could be read, maybe? Dantheman - Thanks for your post. I'm still thinking about all this ... OK you stock up on candles, then you use them up. Remember those Medieval Cathedrals that had thousands of candles burning? How many candle-makers did it take to light by candles? Point being ... how do you make candles from vegetable oil, after you can't buy them anymore? Old cultures used oil lamps made from stone that burned animal fat. For that matter, how would you make vegetable oil anyhow? (one of the great mysteries) Baggywrinke - I've read about the photoluminescent paints. These are a nano product, as I understand it, but will have to do more research. There are paints now that will deodorize your house! That's nano too. Any nano is very scary as far as I'm concerned ... most of our technology has given with one hand and taken with the other, and nobody knows whether any of this stuff is safe in the long haul at the molecular level. LED lights sounds good. I've read of a guy in Virginia who invented a light that somehow works in a long tube filled (with something ... research needed) that requires that you turn the tube every couple hours to keep the light working. He's probably got a patent on this though! Peace of Mine -- Thanks for descriptions. You are reminding me about in-ground ... very doable for moderate refrigeration/ in-water also, yes, non-electrically. I once kept milk fresh for 2 days in the trunk of a car in 90 degree heat by lining a box with newspaper. Which reminds me that books make terrific insulation. |
09-28-2008, 04:09 AM | #34 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
I love this thread!
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Aloha, thank you, do jeh, toda, arigato, merci, grazie, salamat po, gracias, tack, sukria, danke schoen, kiitos, dank u, mahalo nui loa Images to nourish the spirit: http://mistsofavalon.invisionplus.ne...&showtopic=198 |
09-28-2008, 05:09 AM | #35 |
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Mountain Springhouses were purpose-built refrigerators
Where I grew up, a cold mountain spring was utilized as refrigeration, even after electric refrigerators came into common use. My Grandpa built an 8 X 10 block and brick building on top of the spring, which was captured in a trough of concrete that could hold gallons of fresh-made apple cider, or milk when the cows all came in at once, or handle 6 huge watermelons for a family gathering.
There were two parts to our spring. The main spring was damned up in a concrete catchment, maybe a six by six foot area. A concrete walkway was paved to connect to the main building described in the first paragraph. This was kept super-clean, with a screened-in window and sturdy door. It maintained a constant temperature year-round that would have served as adequate refrigeration. This temperate rainforest area, with 80+ inches of annual rainfall, is now experiencing a severe drought and record summer temperatures. Snowfall, when I was growing up, was steady and dependable. That has changed drastically over the last few years. I wonder if the Springhouse would be as dependable in future years. BTW, lots of these ideas are captured in the FOXFIRE series, a journalism class started in my school, that is internationally known. My sister served as the first student editor, and my grandparents are featured in many of the earlier issues. www.foxfire.org Very in-depth articles teach homesteading skills which were passed from one generation to the next. |
09-28-2008, 05:21 AM | #36 |
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Re: Mountain Springhouses were purpose-built refrigerators
Thanks, Peace of mIne. I live in what used to be reliable farming country, but rain has definitely become a problem. Last year we had two solid months with no rain, in July and August, in the middle of the growing season. Many farmers couldn't grow enough hay to get their animals through the winter. So, yes, it's getting more difficult in many areas.
I was thinking about my wind-up kitchen timer and my wind-up clock. These work very nicely non-electrically. Is a hand-pump flashlight something similar? Anybody know how hand-pump flashlights work? Thanks for the Foxfire reference. Many hours of research ahead! Putting forth positive intent to create a completely dull and boring October. |
09-28-2008, 08:32 PM | #37 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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09-28-2008, 09:23 PM | #38 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
Compensating for Doodah's video challenged computer:
Here is a link to Other Power's home built steam generator. http://www.otherpower.com/steamengine.shtml I also am intrigued by human and animal power. Maya Pedal is a project to assist electricity challenged folks in South America. They have done some magnificent work making human powered machines that do everything from making smoothies to pumping water http://www.pedalpower.org/?q=maya_pedal http://www.mayapedal.org/index.html Animal powered treadmills are also an alternative The good news is you get the afternoon off. The bad news is the Captain wants to water ski this morning... Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-28-2008 at 09:33 PM. |
09-29-2008, 02:06 AM | #39 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
The trouble with all these generator ideas are that they are completely off-topic. The OP was about living non-electrically !
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09-29-2008, 03:51 AM | #40 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
True, Anchor, that keeps happening here.
Baggywrinkle, thanks for the reference, photos and humor. A previous post of yours here about a setup for methane production shows pits with black plastic covers. I understand the prinicple in the use of the plastic, but don't want to use anything made from petroleum (ie plastic). The only other non-permeable materials that come to mind are glass, metal, and possibly glazed ceramic. Have you seen methane production using anything else but plastic? |
09-29-2008, 04:02 AM | #41 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
As in camping, I'll go with kerosene or propane lamps, til we can figure out something else.
Also, better have lots of journal notebooks handy and practice up on your penmanship. I'm so old that, when I was learning to write cursive in school, we had to use ink-pens and dip them in ink wells. Probably not a bad idea, to have some Luddite technology on hand. : ) Shech-- |
09-29-2008, 04:30 AM | #42 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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balloon. The problem is storing the methane which remains in the gaseous state. The other feasible system consists of a steel or concrete container in a container. as the methane builds it pushes the inner container vertically to the limit of it's travel (Think of a glass inside a glass). These are low pressure systems easily utilized by folks like you and me. You start adding compressors and tanks the price skyrockets rapidly. Not to mention complexity breeds problems. The beauty of the bladder system is it was designed in the phillipines for use by third world farmers. It is inexpensive and will provide cooking gas for a family easily. With some planning all of your basic needs can be provided from this one source of energy - Even lighting! At my home we use petromax kerosene mantle lanterns and one propane mantle lantern At the web site below Dr David Fulford has a biogas lamp design which uses the mantles in the same fashion as the lamps mentioned above. If you are a smallholder all you need is a few pigs, chickens, and cows and no qualms about shoveling poop. Addng a steam engine you would have the means to pump water into a water tower using a pump jack AND compress the biogas into tanks. Paul Harris at the University of Adelaide has been all over it. http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-29-2008 at 04:47 AM. |
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09-29-2008, 05:25 AM | #43 |
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Re: Biogas & Steam
You are much appreciated!~ I find myself contemplating methane every day lately. We all produce it and it sits there in the ground due to idiot regulations by local governments. People with dairy farms are using it to heat, power and also supply their neighbors with energy. Its the best alternative presentlyy I think. As long as were alive, we will be making it and so why not put it to use?
To the guy with the hydrogen idea, Its excellant but you must remember that hydrogen causes metals to harden, therefore making them brittle. I am not a molecular scientist but you can look it up. Its on this level that it hapens. The computer will adjust after so many miles I am told. Something like the change between ethanol and petrol. |
09-29-2008, 07:18 AM | #44 |
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Re: Biogas & Steam
Thank you, Baggy, once again. I understand the principle. But are those bladders made of plastic? Rubber? What?
Thanks. |
09-29-2008, 08:03 AM | #45 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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09-29-2008, 08:24 AM | #46 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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This is something I needed badly. I am in the tropics, we have a lot of heat here and need refrigeration. Of course my heat source will be solar power ! I read the article but still have to figure out how the 'separator' works. But that's the fun part ... We have tons of heat (until a polar shift ) here to produce tons of cold air ... I like that, knew it was possible but did not practically create that yet. Cheers |
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09-29-2008, 10:07 AM | #47 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
Bioluminescence is probably the most efficient naturally occurring light source.
Think fireflies. In NZ we have an insect commonly known as a glow worm (arachnicampa luminosa) or cannabilistic maggots with shiny **** which is more accurate as they are larvae & not actually a worm. They predominately live in dark, damp, & drafty areas specifically caves, where they spin vertical silk feeding lines to catch their prey, utilising their glowing excrement as a lure. My point is, that in areas heavily populated with glow worms, they collectively emit enough light that, you could almost read a book. Perhaps you could breed a colony then populate your living areas as required. Impractical i know, but i thought it worth mentioning. A couple of free energy hydraulic devices for consideration/research are the self acting water ram & the vortex generator, both can provide mechanical advantage in numerous applications and/or generate electricity. Best regards |
09-29-2008, 12:43 PM | #48 | |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
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for running natural gas. Propane requires larger jets since it is a larger molecule than methane. When you start burning the biogas in an internal combustion engine you need to scrub it first to remove contaminants that corrode engines such as sulphur. It isn't a big deal but it is an extra step with extra complexity and another chance for adding problems. This is why this idea is best suited for the community level with dedicated workers tending the process. At the level of the small holding farmer (me) the best solution is burn the gas directly and utilize the heat for getting work done. Remember the KISS principle. The goal is simplicity. Theoretically elegant, technically simple. We are, after all, neo-luddites. Occam's razor rules. |
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09-29-2008, 10:35 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Biogas & Steam
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In answer to this question, I scroogled "methane bladders". Here's what I found: Suitable materials for the bladder include reinforced gco-membrane materials such as XR-5® 8130 or XR-3® 8228 reinforced geo-membranes available from the Seaman Corporation, Wooster, Ohio, and reinforced geo-membranes from Cooley geosynthetics Geomembranes are made of various materials. Some common geomembrane materials are Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC), High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE), Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE) and Polypropylene (PP). "Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC). General Info. Center for Health, Environment and Justice: PVC: The Poison Plastic -- The Campaign for Safe, Healthy Consumer ..." www.ejnet.org/plastics/pvc/ High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) -- "High-Density Polyethylene(HDPE) or PolyEthylene High-Density (PEHD) is a polyethylene thermoplastic made from petroleum. It takes 1.75 kilograms of ..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDPE Polypropylene (PP) -- polypropylene-pp petrochemicals, http://www.commodityonline.com/commo...opylene-pp.php All these products are made from petroleum, which, according to my hundreds of hours of research, is probably the most poisonous substance on this planet -- not something I really want to take with me into the future. This gives pause for thought. Last edited by doodah; 09-29-2008 at 10:38 PM. |
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09-30-2008, 12:56 AM | #50 |
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Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically
Reading your post tweaked my brain about something I read sometime back...about dual, even triple sources of energy generating. In a boat, you have solar, wind and hydro. Meaning, you can have a series of small paddlewheels churning up electricity and sending it to your batteries even as the wind moves the vessel and the solar panels suck down energy...
I just listened to Cliff (C2C HalfPastHuman interview) say he was building a big boat. 3/4 of the planet is water. Plenty of all energy sources out there, and food, and water (assuming you have desalination capability). Not sure any of this matters if you get caught in a tsunami...how do you guys propose to handle big bad weather, of which there is plenty forecast? Just thinking out loud, here... |
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