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Old 03-08-2010, 04:58 PM   #1
Peace of mind
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Default Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

...or are these just theories?

I'm wondering why so many speak of these in their comments as if they are some known facts. People are using them in their arguments, summaries and advice...but I haven't seen any proof to re-incarnation or past lives...just opinionated beliefs.
thanks in advance...

Peace
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:03 PM   #2
hollylindin
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

If it's something you've personally experienced, Peace Of Mind, no proof is necessary. I have a hard time convincing my partner that he's been here many, many times (although I remember us together in different ways, in different places! ), but I understand that I've remembered the experience and he doesn't/hasn't yet, so there's really nothing I can say/do to convince. There are tons of stories all over the place (they've even been on the news!) but, until you've experienced it yourself, nothing will convince you. And I think a lot of people here have experienced it in some form or another, which is why we talk about it with such acceptance.

<3
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:06 PM   #3
tron
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

This impressed me.\
tho its no proof.
the father even says his belief system contradicts reincarnation, yet he can not deny his son.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA

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Old 03-08-2010, 05:19 PM   #4
TRANCOSO
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

Proof? PROOF?PROOF?!?
Would you believe it!
PROOF!
That's like asking for proof that God exists!
Of course there's proof!
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:27 PM   #5
Harper
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

Traipsing up a hill once in search of hazelnuts, I think, I shocked the pants off my family by, asking why we kept coming back over and over again to do the same things? They responded, what picking hazelnuts? No, I said living. I was 5 years old. I followed it by asking why all the spaceships go up in space, some of them should definaltely go down...........hehehehe

They have been looking at me funny ever since. I need no proof, however its a perfectly valid question.

take it easy
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:35 PM   #6
sjkted
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

If you're looking for proof more on the scientific level, look at some of the studies from the Brian Weiss material. He is a medical doctor who turned believer in reincarnation who has written quite a bit on the topic and given a few different case studies that are very difficult to refute.

Another issue is how well you trust your memory. Where were you yesterday? What were your parents like when you grew up? Where did you first go to school? Right now, those all are memories and if you trust that they were real experiences, reincarnation is no different. They are just memories from a past lifetime.

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Old 03-08-2010, 05:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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If you're looking for proof more on the scientific level, look at some of the studies from the Brian Weiss material. He is a medical doctor who turned believer in reincarnation who has written quite a bit on the topic and given a few different case studies that are very difficult to refute.

Another issue is how well you trust your memory. Where were you yesterday? What were your parents like when you grew up? Where did you first go to school? Right now, those all are memories and if you trust that they were real experiences, reincarnation is no different. They are just memories from a past lifetime.

--sjkted
Yes, he has great insight on the subject of past lives. The really cool part is his own personal story of how he became interested in the subject . His newfound interest happened to him by accident and he had to change his own belief system and go against traditional psychology as he learned through his own patients under hypnosis how they were solving there own conflicts by remembering past lives. Dr. Weiss further proclaims, in an experiment he did with over 4000 patients, that there are basically 4 futures that will unfold...

And the good doctor went so far as to actually ask a person under hypnosis how they ended up on Earth...

So next time you are around one of your friends or partners, out of the blue ask them how they, their soul, got here and don't say another word. Only they can know or find the answer to that one, they may even just blurt it out and not know they already knew, or you just may create a research monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvsMj...eature=channel

Last edited by Christo888; 03-08-2010 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

So in other words, this means anyone can go around saying they were Abraham Lincoln, Martian Luther King JR, FDR, JFK, etc…
Forgive my suspicions but the whole thing just sounds suspect to me. Especially, when those claiming to have been some great leader or figure head, but in this life they do nothing in comparison.

I sometimes feel like I was here before too, but can I actually prove it? I’m not sure.
I’m wondering how others come to these realizations with little to no logical proof. Do you know how many people claim they are the re-incarnation of Jesus?

The real reason I asked is to get answers, or the lack of an answer from certain people. This will further help me and a few of my partners in discerning a few issues. IMO, this board has become saturated with unproven beliefs and the spreading of nonfactual information can hinder our progress…as well as yours.

Thanks tron and sjkted, I’ll continue to look into this…


Peace
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:05 PM   #9
kriya
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…



This is more about life after death but nonetheless an excellent book.

Also,



an excellent book and well worth a read.

Love,

Kriya
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:37 PM   #10
Gnosis5
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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This is more about life after death but nonetheless an excellent book.

Also,



an excellent book and well worth a read.

Love,

Kriya
I would take the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" with me to my deathbed rather than Moody's work. A lot of implanting goes on in the between lives area.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:50 PM   #11
kriya
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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I would take the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" with me to my deathbed rather than Moody's work. A lot of implanting goes on in the between lives area.
I haven't read the Tibetian book of the Dead, but I'm sure I'd like it. I read "life after life" when I was 15 and it opened my mind to spirituality and the mysteries. I don't know much about implanting I'm afraid, but it sounds terrible.

Love,

Kriya
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:13 PM   #12
Christo888
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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Originally Posted by Peace of mind View Post
So in other words, this means anyone can go around saying they were Abraham Lincoln, Martian Luther King JR, FDR, JFK, etc…
Forgive my suspicions but the whole thing just sounds suspect to me. Especially, when those claiming to have been some great leader or figure head, but in this life they do nothing in comparison.

I sometimes feel like I was here before too, but can I actually prove it? I’m not sure.
I’m wondering how others come to these realizations with little to no logical proof. Do you know how many people claim they are the re-incarnation of Jesus?

The real reason I asked is to get answers, or the lack of an answer from certain people. This will further help me and a few of my partners in discerning a few issues. IMO, this board has become saturated with unproven beliefs and the spreading of nonfactual information can hinder our progress…as well as yours.

Thanks tron and sjkted, I’ll continue to look into this…


Peace
You know what you bring up an awesome point, Dr. Weiss says that none of his patients ever proclaimed to be a famous person. Which out of his 8000+ patients you would think several would have been a famous person. My inkling, based on Dr. Weiss' comments, which certain areas are off-limits to public because of Dr/patient privacy (yes that can also be used for an excuse), is that remembering you were famous may upset the apple cart in this life if you were to really remember. Think about how many people today are proclaiming to be a past famous person and actually may have some parallels, but it ruins their current life because they live under the shadow of what or who the famous person was in the past. In my opinion when this is the case virtually every word out of their mouth is slanted, or tainted, it just reflects the energy or vibration of the past and not pure adventure of the new.

A friend of mine in Florida claims to be of the Isis or Mary energy field but after several years of getting to know her she has many conflicts within her that say otherwise and she is always 'the connection' to the spirit world for everybody.

And several times she has had bouts of paranoia as if grays and reptilians are tractor beaming her and she has to fight back or block them from entering her 'mind'... you see where this is going.

Anyway, perhaps try the past life regression session and see what memory's match with your current life. Maybe you were someone famous but it may not come up.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

Here is an interesting case study I saw a few years ago of childrens recall that you may find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoSrz...eature=related Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnYmr...eature=related Part 2

As you watch this, look at the dynamic's of the children in the context of their family relationships. Are they being rewarded, being made to feel special, do they enjoy the attention?

What clues do you see in the parent's that might explain some of this? - since as children they pickup much from the parents.

How much of what they say is general that fits into what actually happened? (common linkage to fortune telling techniques - it's the sitter that makes the connections in their mind/beliefs, not the one telling the story)

Try to see past the dramatic music, it's there to enhance the viewers connection to the story.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

This draws my mind to a scene in the film "contact".

Matthew's character is asking Jodie's character if she believes in God. She says "No, because there is no proof/Can't prove it".. He asks: "Did you love your Dad?". She, of course, answers "yes".. So he asks her to.. "Prove it."

I had a cake made for my 10th Birthday which had Freddy Kruger's hand/glove on it. No pictures were taken though, so I can't prove that.

In conversation with my wife, she said she loves me. No one was around to hear it however, so maybe it didn't actually happen.

How do I run an experiment to prove I had that cake on my 10th birthday or that my wife loves me?

What would it take to prove reincarnation? memory of the event is clearly not enough.. What if someone born within the same hour in the same hospital remembered as you remembered, being reincarnated at the same time? Is that proof? Do we need scientific data? Some sort of repeatable test or experiment? Does our consciousness effect that experiment if we conduct it? Can we prove it does? Can we prove it does not?

So.. My answer: There is no proof. Yet if there is no proof of reincarnation, there is also no proof of many things. One of life's great mysteries. I would love to see some "proof", until then I will have to rely on my own memory.

Even if you were Jesus in a past life.. it doesn't matter now. What matters, now, is what you do, now.

in light, of love
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #15
Gnosis5
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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Traipsing up a hill once in search of hazelnuts, I think, I shocked the pants off my family by, asking why we kept coming back over and over again to do the same things? They responded, what picking hazelnuts? No, I said living. I was 5 years old. I followed it by asking why all the spaceships go up in space, some of them should definaltely go down...........hehehehe

They have been looking at me funny ever since. I need no proof, however its a perfectly valid question.

take it easy

Yeah, my parents were so amazed at something I was trying to show them when I was a crawling infant that they took a picture of me pointing at Eugene McCarthy and jabbering at them. They actually got out the Kodak and took a picture. I saw the picture once and am hoping I will find it again in the pile of photos stacked in my basement.

So often when people say "proof" they are being strictly left-brained, like it is some sort of god. "Proof" comes from using both sides of the brain, which is a fleshly archetype of the mind and the being who runs the whole show.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

Well, after making some Hungarian stew and putting it down for my youngest son to eat, who was 3 1/2 at the time, he took a bite and looked up with a smile on his face to myself and his older sister, and said...

"My other mom made food just like this" it's good, isn't it!

And,

I just had a customer come in for a print job a couple of months ago, and out of the blue he told me he should be dead, he died after an aneurysm had
blown in his brain. It took them 3 minutes to get him back.

When he realized he was back in the hospital bed, he cried, as he told the doctors and nurses that they just ripped him away from his grandmother, and where he was, he was not in pain, and he was very very happy, the most happy he has been in his whole life.

He had to go for therapy after that, as a very deep depression set in, because he would rather have been not brought back to life.

Now, his wife was by his side when he was telling me his story, and she agreed to it all, she even looked sad for him.

And,
I am trained in palliative care, and during my volunteer work in this area, when my clients were very close to "going home" there would be many conversations between them and whom ever they were close to, who have already passed on. Smiles and tears of happiness would wash over their faces, and you just knew, that they were in fact "going home"

This is some of "my" proofs, but I have many more, and yes, it can be hard to believe in, if you do not have any experience with it at all.

It is just one of those things.

love & light
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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...or are these just theories?

I'm wondering why so many speak of these in their comments as if they are some known facts. People are using them in their arguments, summaries and advice...but I haven't seen any proof to re-incarnation or past lives...just opinionated beliefs.
thanks in advance...

Peace
To some extent, I'm with you on this one. It's hard to substantiate these theories when the variables are virtually all intangible. Discernment is the key.

Dolores Cannon, Brain Weiss - use hypnotic-regression as forensics - yet it's my experience that the subsconsious mind does not "operate" in terms of such details, so I think most of this is bleed over from the conscious mind's dreamstate - where our fantasies, desires and blocks play out. So when one describes a "past life" experience - it's a way within the psyche to detach from one's reality and project the issue onto another "life". In other words, a block - which is easier to talk about. I really feel that is what most of this is.

And also the phenomena of someone that is interested and studies past-lives or near death experiences, and reads up about it - well then those experiences of others are bouncing around in one's psyche and then naturally come up in one's own experience. I firmly believe much of this goes on.

If you are looking for something a bit more science based, try Dr. Ian Stevenson, although many feel his approach is a mix of science and mystics.

I think the most interesting people to study and review are young children, they seem to have the recall without the excess "baggage" in the psyche - yet I'm not totally convinced this is fool proof - as a childs mind cannot differentiate between fantasy/reality at times.

An interesting topic - discernment is the key. Otherwise we end up just accepting such things at face value based on a "credible" reporter - who deems the reporter as credible when the reporter is just expressing their beliefs?

Let me add that "Dr.", "MD" or "Phd" or "many books sold" doesn't = truth. It's there to build credibility to sell books.

Last edited by MyShadow; 03-08-2010 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

Our only real truths are experiential and you can listen the live long day to someone's else's truths and it won't may you or anyone understand what they mean. Don't worry about it, your truths are yours, it doesn't matter that you don't have the 'feeling' you lived before, jesus you could be able to fly, how do I know.

You are prefectly correct though, i cannot tell how many reincarnated cleopatra's there are out there, and how everyone was someone very important, never a farmer or anything of the sort.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

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Our only real truths are experiential and you can listen the live long day to someone's else's truths and it won't may you or anyone understand what they mean. Don't worry about it, your truths are yours, it doesn't matter that you don't have the 'feeling' you lived before, jesus you could be able to fly, how do I know.

You are prefectly correct though, i cannot tell how many reincarnated cleopatra's there are out there, and how everyone was someone very important, never a farmer or anything of the sort.

Oh, yes, you are so right. We cannot forever vicariously feed off someone else's picture story. Everyone as far as I know has the ability, perhaps with some assistance, to go and check it out for themselves, within themselves. I certainly do not recommend that everyone do this however. When you have experienced all that you wish to experience under the cover of forgetfulness then you can begin the recall process. According to the Matrix V instructions one reaches an awareness of all of their existences, which would probably be half an eternity at least. I've stopped counting in terms of time constructs.

I think now I have run through at least a hundred lifetimes and only in one lifetime was I ever someone who you can still read about in the Encyclopedia Britannica, and that was the elder sister of Felix Mendelssohn. That's my brag, LOL!


Very large beings can put out multiple aspects of themselves. Did you know that Cleopatra was the Queen of De-Nile,
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Where's the proof of re-incarnation and past lives…

No proof here but there is no doubt in my mind that re-incarnation is very real.
I think I have spent many lives as a warrior Not sure why but that's how I feel.
Last time round I was married to Mary and I'm pretty sure I was killed by a German in WW2

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Old 03-08-2010, 06:24 PM   #21
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No proof here but there is no doubt in my mind that re-incarnation is very real.
I think I have spent many lives as a warrior Not sure why but that's how I feel.
Last time round I was married to Mary and I'm pretty sure I was killed by a German in WW2

My Hubby was on the German side in WW2 (reluctantly) and he was killed by an American. That was actually a happy moment for him :-) He hated Hitler and the war.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:27 PM   #22
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I hope he didn't kill me as I left Mary behind

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Old 03-10-2010, 08:30 AM   #23
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To some extent, I'm with you on this one. It's hard to substantiate these theories when the variables are virtually all intangible. Discernment is the key.

Dolores Cannon, Brain Weiss - use hypnotic-regression as forensics - yet it's my experience that the subsconsious mind does not "operate" in terms of such details, so I think most of this is bleed over from the conscious mind's dreamstate - where our fantasies, desires and blocks play out. So when one describes a "past life" experience - it's a way within the psyche to detach from one's reality and project the issue onto another "life". In other words, a block - which is easier to talk about. I really feel that is what most of this is.

And also the phenomena of someone that is interested and studies past-lives or near death experiences, and reads up about it - well then those experiences of others are bouncing around in one's psyche and then naturally come up in one's own experience. I firmly believe much of this goes on.

If you are looking for something a bit more science based, try Dr. Ian Stevenson, although many feel his approach is a mix of science and mystics.

I think the most interesting people to study and review are young children, they seem to have the recall without the excess "baggage" in the psyche - yet I'm not totally convinced this is fool proof - as a childs mind cannot differentiate between fantasy/reality at times.

An interesting topic - discernment is the key. Otherwise we end up just accepting such things at face value based on a "credible" reporter - who deems the reporter as credible when the reporter is just expressing their beliefs?

Let me add that "Dr.", "MD" or "Phd" or "many books sold" doesn't = truth. It's there to build credibility to sell books.
The part that is missing here is that each person has a unique signature to them from the way their energy is set up (astrological sign), personality, upbringing, body type, personal interests, unexplained skills, weaknesses and strengths. Most people don't really question these things: why is my upper body so strong, but I don't have much endurance? Why do I have a birth mark on my body? Why did I not get along with this relative? What is my purpose in this lifetime? Why am I living in the community I am in right now?

When you explore past lifetimes, you get access to the answers of all of these questions. The answers are very deep at times and provide an explanation to why you are the way you are way beyond anything else. You will also learn about lessons you failed to get in previous lifetimes and are repeating now. When you put all of them together along with the emotional reactions to receiving this information, it explains in depth who you are, where you came from, why you are the way you are, and where you are going. This is more than most people are capable of handling.

In addition, learning past life details especially relationship related often provides instant healing as you become conscious of what the original conflict was and how it relates to your present lifetime.

When you put all of this together, it becomes very hard to just write it off as some vision or psychological construct.

In addition, there are people who are born with knowledge of dead languages they could not possibly have known and historical facts and details they could not have known. Some people have even visited foreign countries where they have lived hundreds of years ago and explained exactly how the town was laid out and even found bona fide records of their past life.

I could go on and on, but the point is you really need to go through the experiences of reliving past life memories to understand all of this stuff. Until then, it's very easy to hypothesize one thing or another.

--sjkted
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:32 PM   #24
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Most people don't really question these things: why is my upper body so strong, but I don't have much endurance? Why do I have a birth mark on my body? Why did I not get along with this relative? What is my purpose in this lifetime? Why am I living in the community I am in right now?
I think much of this comes from one's ancestry, biology and genetics. Your lineage is the momentum that sets up your basis for possible experiences, but I feel it's your subconscious drive which is pinging your conscious mind (working together) that in which one makes choices about how, what, where those experiences will come. I am not a believer that it's all preset or arranged in the stars or comes as a result of a "hangover" from past lives. That's just my opinion, I'm not challenging others/yours. Just offering another way of looking at it.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:59 PM   #25
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I think much of this comes from one's ancestry, biology and genetics. Your lineage is the momentum that sets up your basis for possible experiences, but I feel it's your subconscious drive which is pinging your conscious mind (working together) that in which one makes choices about how, what, where those experiences will come. I am not a believer that it's all preset or arranged in the stars or comes as a result of a "hangover" from past lives. That's just my opinion, I'm not challenging others/yours. Just offering another way of looking at it.
Yes, this is also true. I don't in any way see this as an either/or scenario. The body is a perfect vehicle to manifest what you need to do in this lifetime. The soul chooses the parents and lineage and the genetic aspect is also interwoven with the karma.

Here's my understanding of how all of this works. I really think part of the failure here is that we (mainstream anything) doesn't have a working model for all of this, so it's easy to jump to conclusions and not fully understand.

From a 3D perspective, we have had past lifetimes because all that exists in 3D is the current body and current circumstances. Part of our socialization process when we are younger forces us to accept that 3D is all that exists. 3D is very limited because we are disconnected from the higher dimensions and don't really know ourselves or where we are from. From a 3D perspective people are forced to accept the inputs from "experts" -- be they doctors, scientists, PhDs, lawyers, etc. because we are disconnected from our higher dimensions. In other words, we don't "know" what is real, we simply take in information from people who have professionally researched what is real in 3D. We've all undergone the socialization process, so hardly anyone isn't overcome by the amnesia.

The real answer is that we exist in multiple dimensions at the same time, but our consciousness in 3D is disconnected from the higher dimensions. For example, when we sleep we go into 4D, but our consciousness does not integrate the experiences we have in 4D with our 3D experience.

If you go even higher, 5D and 6D eliminate the barriers of space and time. Einstein and some other ahead of their time thinkers have written about this, but nobody seems to grasp how it works in a practical sense.

Basically, as you get into 6D+, you exist in all of your past lifetimes, present lifetimes, and future lifetimes all in the same moment. It's all happening in the NOW. There is a part of you called the higher self, some call it the superconsciousness that is aware of and conscious of all of these existences and what is happening in reality. So, basically, there are infinite numbers of you existing in parallel Earth universes and also in past and future lifetimes all at the same time.

Space and time don't exist -- they are merely illusions. Everything is a vibratory structure and your mind processes vibrations and translates them into physicality and perceptions.

The higher self is as I understand what provides access to the past lives. It is also possible to query information on what is happening in future lifetimes. The point is that this is all much more complex and does have quite a bit of scientific footing than what you can just box into a 3D structure and proclaim that it does or doesn't exist.

--sjkted
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