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Old 09-08-2008, 03:53 AM   #1
thedarke
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Default Gun Protection

With everything that is being discussed and the potential upcoming changes and events that are going to occur, would you recommend purchasing a gun or a weapon of some sorts.....or do you feel it would be pointless. I have been considering this with the current economy and news of changes occuring.

Last edited by Carol; 10-04-2008 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:57 AM   #2
monotony
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If a martial law scenario were to happen you would not want a gun. I got some pretty good advice from a martial law survival guide and it basically said to forget about guns and get 17% pepper spray from the net. In South America when people were found with guns they were shot with no questions asked.

The pepper spray is very strong and I think a good alternative.
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:15 AM   #3
thedarke
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Default Re: Gun Protection

What was the name of the martial law survivors guide or book. do you have a link you could share with everyone? Would you recommend someone buys a a tazer gun?
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:37 AM   #4
Excalibur
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Default Re: Gun Protection

personally I think you should consider getting a rifle or shotgun that could be used for hunting primarily and defensive protection second. if things deteriorate into the worst case scenario you will not be able to acquire food through the traditional channels, and there will be some desperate folks out there who's primary objective will be to take from those that have no ability to resist. I really hope it does not come to that but I think it is prudent to prepare for that scenario.
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:43 AM   #5
Artificial Intelligence
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Default Re: Gun Protection

The only thing standing between us and the government is the fact that we have a Constitutional right to own guns. This is most definitely a plus for us.
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:02 AM   #6
Morphious
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Default Re: Gun Protection

The main reason our four fathers made an amendment to Let every american carry a gun is to protect us from the powers that be. In other words They (the four fathers) Knew that there would come a time that great power would be givin to people with very bad intentions. More less to protect youeself from ANY person invading your home or proporty!! And The constitution is already in the bucket so to speak because not every american can own a gun ....like me..I have a felony , and that means i DO NOT have the right to protect myself ...Isnt that just fan-frikin-tastic ???? The felony is alchohol related BTW....Yea..I love my country...
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:03 AM   #7
Equalitor
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Default Re: Gun Protection

If there would be chaos, you would optimize your survival chances by having a rifle and having trained a lot with it. Choose one with metal sights [the ones bolted to the rifle at the top front and the second closer to you], and a good scope, so that if your scope gets damaged you would have an extra chance. Pick ammo type after what is normal in your area and cheap, so you can buy lots. Never knows when the world is normal again. By choosing a popular ammo amongst other people you can also take their ammo if you need to! [I would only do that if they were dead, gone or bartered with me. One have to uphold morale].
Now, by rifle I do not mean the AR-15 thing, even though they would be good in close combat. Never having hold one I guess they are heavier and more troublesome at long distances, not to mention the magazine that sticks out so unconviniently. But there are many fans of these, especially in the US. Most normal hunting rifles have small magazines that would let you take down your target anyway, and half automatic ones are around. The normal ones are more reliable than machine guns, and easier to maintain. Also, having not so many but enough shots to take out big animals, you would not spray to much ammo on them, but learn to consider each shot carefully.

Monotony: If guns were to be banned for the civil, good for us really. Less people to think about with guns out there! But you [and I] would hide our guns away in a VERY safe place, perhaps out in the bush, where chances of survival would be best. With a small team of course, and hideout. We are stronger together, but not too many.

Morphious: Letting almost everyone own almost any gun in America for "self defense" sounds strange to me. Are not the ones you defend against robbers, criminals and crazy youth, who loves that the guns are so easy to get hold of? Most ones who are shot never carry the guns on themselves anyway, even if they are in their own house, making it pointless, because it is so easy to take civilians by surprise!
America has one of the highes murder rates in the world. That is not self defence. Look to Canada, where they are not so afraid to lock their doors at night. Let handguns be banned for the safety of all!
And also, the american government [and many more] don't want the best for their people. That is why we are here. They won't be bothered that their peoples are decimating, when it is mostly the poor people that gets shot.

BTW, I have never owned a gun but very soon will [legally] I have shot very little with hunting rifles but I know they are the right kind for this environment in Europe at least. And I love to read about the subject, finding peoples experiences all over the net.
Check out www.survivalistboards.com for almost any info you need for practical survival.

Edited some grammars

Last edited by Equalitor; 09-09-2008 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:59 PM   #8
Stinkhorn
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Default Re: Gun Protection

If there is martial law, the US gov will collect all firearms by force, look at new orleans, they had lists of gun owners, sought them out and took their weapons.

Are you willing to kill 12 to 30 US soldiers commanded to take your weapons? Are you capable to do so? I am sure if you resisted from your home, they would move in a tank or 2 and level your home. Hell, they could do it from 10 miles away.

Hide your weapons well, they will enter your home by force and take whatever they want. Some soldiers my disent, but the rest will follow orders blindly.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:25 PM   #9
Equalitor
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Default Re: Gun Protection

If they would want to take weapons at all in war or the like, even just hunting types, you could do several things to evade "legally" theft.
1. You could report your [extra] weapon "stolen" [rather long before you know about chaos] and hide it somewhere extremely safe, preferably in the deep woods. A friend could steal it for you, giving you a chance to have a good alibi.
2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
3. "Run to the hills, run for your life" before they come to you. Staying in a populated area is a deathtrap anyway, which most people live in. Never underestimate people in a desperate situation, even those you know.

As I live in Norway I think this never would happen, but you never know either. I hope the day will never come, even though I find it fun to organize and spreading the word!
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:13 PM   #10
Bill Ryan
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Hi, Folks:

I've been reading this with interest, and thanks for all your thoughts and contributions.

I suggest the best way to approach this is as described by many Martial Arts masters, in various ways over the centuries.

It's as applicable now as it was in China 3,000 years ago.

[my paraphrase]

* If you use your weapon, then you've already lost the fight.

* A real warrior is a peacemaker... and always knows when to walk away.

And, from Gandhi:

* Be the change you want to see in the world.

For the record, these are our values at Projects Camelot and Avalon and are shared by thousands of people who write to us. We don't want to curtail any intelligent and informed discussion and there's no implied criticism of anyone here. But the above is my $.02 worth.

Very best to all, Bill
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:25 PM   #11
Baggywrinkle
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Just another tool in the well rounded kit, and another
skill to master. Important point this; your gear won't
save you but your skill set might.

At my local gun shop all the employees open carry holstered sidearms. The message is clear without
saying a word. In keeping with Bill's statement about
being forced to use one.

Another point. Never forget that weapons do not protect your food. Food protects your weapons.

Regarding confiscation. Refer to the point above and develop your caching skills. If they come to my
house I will be happy to give them the single shot .22 chipmunk in the gun cabinet

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-09-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:49 PM   #12
feynman
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Default Re: Gun Protection

In Australia we had all our guns taken away from us.
All it took was a crazy Tasmanian walking into a resort
and killing a few score people.

We handed them over willingly.

When you Americans get forced to hand in your guns...
game over.

I agree that having a gun during martial law will be
v e r y d a n g e r o u s

Then again I wouldn't want to be in a anarchic America
without one.

In Australia its different. No guns.
Guns are for the criminals, police and a few clubs who
they let still let own guns.

I'm for gun ownership.
And I do worry about brutes roaming the land
when things get desperate.

I like the ideas presented above.

In Australia I fear invading Indonesian gangs
when there is no longer a navy to keep them out.
That terrifies me.

In Australia you can't buy a gun.
So I have no option.
I will learn how to make a hunting bow.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:56 PM   #13
thedarke
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Default Re: Gun Protection

I appreciate everyone's input here, and it all makes great and logical sense. I try to stay off the grid as much as possible and being on a list of being a gun owner, is not what I want. Eyes are opening wide, thanks again.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:12 PM   #14
EYES WIDE OPEN
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial Intelligence View Post
The only thing standing between us and the government is the fact that we have a Constitutional right to own guns. This is most definitely a plus for us.
Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:17 PM   #15
John aka#404
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Default Re: Gun Protection

One of my favorite quotes...

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind - M. Gandhi
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:28 PM   #16
Baggywrinkle
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by feynman View Post

In Australia you can't buy a gun.
So I have no option.
I will learn how to make a hunting bow.
G'day Blue,

There are always options. Always.

Look what your pommie cousin has done where they want to outlaw butter knives...

http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/homemadeammo.shtml

When the need arises the tools will be there. Or as Gary
Ray Hickman, former special forces medic, is so fond
of saying, "The best way to avoid a punch is to not be
there. But when push comes to shove I'll be shooting
what you're shooting in the morning..."

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-09-2008 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:34 PM   #17
Pinktip
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Luke 22:36 "Sell your cloak to buy a sword"

The most important ammendment to the US constitution is the 2nd.....without it, the others do not matter. Throughout history, gov'ts have feared an armed public.

For survial, have a .22 for food and a 12 ga pump for defense. If you think the gov't is going to knock on your door to confiscate your firearms, make sure they and you are not there. You can't fight the gov't, but you can defend yourself against others....disappear if you can.....02c
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:41 PM   #18
Orion Morris
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Default Re: Gun Protection

I live in the middle of Wyoming, where 90% of the people have much more than one gun. In fact, you are allowed to just walk around with your gun on your hip, if you have one of the easy to obtain liscences. If there ever was marshall law, which I believe couldnt happen because it would be our brothers and sisters who joined the armed foreces who come to inforce such a thing. The simple people who work for the government are not going to physically take over the entire country that they themselves grew up in. What would be a real concern is if their was ever a food shortage for thousands of reasons; financial collapse, increased security, war, the honey bee's, just to name a few. Then all these people with guns would use them to rob their neighbors. Starving families would probably go rob their rich morman neighbor who has a bunch of food in his basement before they would ever let themselves starve. The only way around it, or the best idea I have, would be just to take off the the mountans and try to live off the land. Either way I woldnt recommend trying to survive around a whole village of starving desperate rednecks and gangsters with guns. We are going to have to come togeather as one and put our guns down.

LOVE
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:00 PM   #19
ramallamamama
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Great posts.

After Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc., grabbed all the guns it didn't work out too well for the citizens.

I like the idea of having a gun or two for self defense. Not a big fan of FEMA camps or RFID chips. The Goobermint does not have my best interest at heart.

Caching weapons and ammo is important. My pick would be an AK-47. They always work, no matter what. Ammo for the AK is still relatively cheap, stack it deep. Buy a lot of extra magazines too. Get trained with one. The value of good training could be priceless.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:55 PM   #20
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Originally I thought the same thing. But this Martial Law Survival Guide I've got really convinced me that having a gun will be worthless against trained, martial law officers. You might get one or two, but probably not, and what good would that really do in the large scheme.

If a resistance were to develop, plenty of guns would be available, but otherwise they are going to be useless. You'll have 2 or 3 days to turn in your guns, and if you don't and they are found, you'll be killed. I know we all like to think of ourselves as Rambo, but it is just fantasy to believe that 1 person with a shotgun or AK is going to beat back the gov't.

If a martial law scenario comes, you do not want a gun.

I tried to upload the document I referenced but it is 350kb and the site only allows very small uploads.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monotony View Post
Originally I thought the same thing. But this Martial Law Survival Guide I've got really convinced me that having a gun will be worthless against trained, martial law officers. You might get one or two, but probably not, and what good would that really do in the large scheme.

If a resistance were to develop, plenty of guns would be available, but otherwise they are going to be useless. You'll have 2 or 3 days to turn in your guns, and if you don't and they are found, you'll be killed. I know we all like to think of ourselves as Rambo, but it is just fantasy to believe that 1 person with a shotgun or AK is going to beat back the gov't.

If a martial law scenario comes, you do not want a gun.

I tried to upload the document I referenced but it is 350kb and the site only allows very small uploads.
Yes

You won't beat back the government and will likely die
trying. But that, my friend, is the point. When they come
for you, unless you are not there you will die anyway.
Do not go quietly! Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his Gulag Archipelago warns us not to go quietly. Do not make it
easy. It will give them pause if you take up whatever at
hand and attempt to rearrange their outlook with it. It is intimidating when the victim refuses to cooperate. This cannot be overstated. You may be lost, so do it for your children, your neighbors, and your countrymen. Do it for them. If you are lost anyway, go with a bang rather than a whimper. A free man may be killed, but not subjugated.


We have done research on this topic. Read about the
resistance in World War II. Read about the forest Jews
of Germany and the magnificent Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
It brings a tear just thinking about it. Done properly you
will inspire those who follow. We remember Sophie Scholl and Masha Bruskina. Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya
shouted, "You can't hang all 190 million of us," just before
she died! We remember them. Who remembers their
executioners!

The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But if
you are there, make it a memorable occasion.

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 10-26-2008 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:54 PM   #22
monotony
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
Yes

You won't beat back the government and will likely die
trying. But that, my friend, is the point. When they come
for you, unless you are not there you will die anyway.
Do not go quietly! Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his Gulag Archipelago warns us not to go quietly. Do not make it
easy. It will give them pause if you take up whatever at
hand and attempt to rearrange their outlook with it. It is intimidating when the victim refuses to cooperate. This cannot be understated. You may be lost, so do it for your children, your neighbors, and your countrymen. Do it for them. If you are lost anyway, go with a bang rather than a whimper. A free man may be killed, but not subjugated.


We have done research on this topic. Read about the
resistance in World War II. Read about the forest Jews
of Germany and the magnificent Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
It brings a tear just thinking about it. Done properly you
will inspire those who follow. We remember Sophie Scholl and Masha Bruskina. Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya
shouted, "You can't hang all 190 million of us," just before
she died! We remember them. Who remembers their
executioners!

The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But if
you are there, make it a memorable occasion.
I really love your sentiment and spirit! I completely understand and respect this point of view. But in my case, firing guns and killing a few people here and there I don't believe will change anything. My plan of attack will be to continue to raise my own consciousness and encourage and organize others around me to do the same.

If you've heard David Wilcock's "Science of Peace" or are familiar with the Trancendental Meditation studies or many other studies done in the past, violence declines SHARPLY when groups of people get together and meditate on peace. Imagine if we could organize millions of people to commit to doing that every day for even 10 minutes. It is possible with the internet and on sites like this with a more awakened visitor than most.

In any case, I support whatever anyone wants to do to resist and more importantly than anything is that we are unified as the future approaches. Be well all!

Blessings,
Jeff
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:55 PM   #23
Equalitor
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Default Re: Gun Protection

It is fun to see all the different views on this

Monotony: The opinion from the survival guide of yours I do not like, looking like it's influenced by some government funded money. Removing guns from civilians would seem to serve their interests, and it probably would. But all the millions of patriots that would defend their country with their guns, if they were at war? It's a free underground army!
Having a natural disaster situation would be worse, with more helpless people killing others.
It would serve you and not be a danger for anyone if you lived far from everyone else under a crisis. If you have to defend [not against the army of course], you have at least tried to avoid it! And after that it is up to you to help build a new world.
________________________________________________

What I tried to say in the last post is that a gun is just another tool for aquiring food, like a fishing rod really! At least they don't take those..
But everyone sees guns as evil tools now because they have been misused in terrible wars and for murders. We all need food in dark times, and when there's plenty of food living in the woods you would not harvest the nature as we have always done? Is there a big difference of hunting it with rifle or bow [the rifle being the best shot of course], and eating a self-slaughtered deer or shopping it at the mall?

If some are die-hard vegitarians I would understand their choice, but it will not help them survive a long crisis, making their bodies weak too [losing B12 + more] over the years being selective about food.
I tried to live as a vegitarian once, it did not work well since it takes much skill and info to do it the "right" way and me being a quite helpless young cook I actually REALLY love the idea that no living life should be exploited as food or in other ways, but the world have not come far enough.. Improving rights for all and especially fur animals are extremely important though.

May Peace last, as fragile as it is
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:22 PM   #24
Excalibur
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Default Re: Gun Protection

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" as they say.

I don't think the martial law scenario would play out in the US. That may be a bullet point (no pun intended there ) on the master plan, but I think impractical to implement. I bet they would encounter fierce resistance/guerrilla style war if they tried and abandon that approach rather quickly. Best they could do, would be to 'quarantine' certain areas to prevent mass movement of people as discussed in other threads. I think most of the rank and file would simply desert and return home in that scenario to protect their own families, rather than spilling the blood of their countrymen. I believe the majority of the US military would not follow unlawful orders to confiscate firearms and detain civilians, which would be treasonous in my view. The courts have indicated the New Orleans PD overstepped their authority during Katrina in those confiscations which violated both federal and state constitutions, and agreed to return the firearms (http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=gunreturn) alot of help that is when your only form of self defence is removed, but it is important to note the precedent has been established, and that scenario should not repeat itself. I also believe various elements within the US military would not stand for a martial law scenario, leading to infighting within their own ranks.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:22 AM   #25
Lt Ripley
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Default Re: Gun Protection

Hey everyone,

I was pondering the same dilemma myself just recently.

I, like many of my country men and women, would be aware that there were massive gun control measures put in place in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre, ie Martin Bryant.

There seems to be a pile of evidence to suggest that Bryant, in fact, was not the shooter on the scene. There have been many discrepancies in the accounts of the survivors and various witnesses and there are many small but important details that just blow away the entire Bryant official story as put out by the media.

My point here is that I see the entire Bryant episode as a catalyst to remove guns/weapons from the general public, leaving the majority of Australians unarmed and defenseless. I see it as being a deliberate ploy by the government at that time and the Port Arthur massacre (IMO) is definitely not without an alternative agenda.

My sincere condolences to anyone reading who was affected by the Port Arthur incident and please rest assured I do not mean to offend or desecrate the memories of all loved ones who died that day.

For a very informative article regarding the Port Arthur massacre and the trail of suss evidence, have a look at the following link:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.p...d=27&Itemid=71

There are 3 parts of the article, all of which are available for viewing on the Nexus Magazine website.
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