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Old 10-08-2008, 04:52 AM   #1
Bernd
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Default Scientology - good or bad

Hello everyone,

I am from Munich, Germany.
I read a couple of posts here in which this subject was mentioned, and I would like to share with you my own experience.

I first got in contact with Scientology in Berlin in 1975 at the age of 25. It was about the end of the Hippie-era. Lots of people were looking for explanations in life, why man and the world ticks as it does etc. In Germany there wasn’t much of an organization, at least it was not so much in the foreground. We got together in groups and we were all convinced that we can help each other and make the world a better place. One has to understand that in the 50ies the whole thing really started as a freedom movement. And spiritual freedom was what we were dedicating our lives to.

I joined staff in the Munich organization in about 1977 and left in 1981/82 when the whole organization sort of went black overnight.

Most of the time I was working in the intelligence department of the Guardian Office (an organization beside Scientology with the purpose to protect it) and my job was to investigate the sources behind the attacks against Scientology. This brought me quite an insight of the power-structures that time and what the “vested interests” were. I summarized it on a website called www.new-civilization.de.

When you hear about Scientology today – or let’s say from the early 80ies on - you see is a group called Scientology Church which put itself under the Illuminati structure… status – conformity – control.

Before that time it was very different.

I mean, everyone should ask this question. If Dianetics and Scientology were just fraud and Hubbard just a quack or a “science fiction writer” … why this incredible attack against it? I’m not talking about today. I’m talking about the 50ies, 60ies and 70ies. Why was Hubbard on the hit list of the intelligence services? Why was he attacked by the AMA, APA, FDA, IRS just to name a few? Because they were the good guys who were trying to protect us?

There is much more to this. When Hubbard developed Dianetics he entered the battleground of mind control. He was able to undo these mind control programs faster than they could be installed. Here is a short summary: http://www.freezone.de/english/timet..._BE_TAKEN_OVER

If it wasn’t for Hubbard and his movement against “psychiatry” (the side of psychiatry represented by MKULTRA etc., not the general psychiatrist) America would have had it’s concentration camps already in the 50ies (see Alaska Mental Health Act of 1955 - http://www.freezone.de/english/timetrack/1955.htm).

His dream was a world without war, criminality and insanity and a civilization we can all be proud of. His group betrayed him. The Scientology Church as well as its Guardian Office was infiltrated and finally taken over.
I remember… end of the 70ies… when I investigated the interest groups behind the attacks I ran into the Illuminati. When I reported that to management, I was taken off post.

Just to give you an example. In that time (in Germany) there was an evangelic priest who violently attacked Scientology, and we were asking ourselves… what makes this guy tick, what motivates him? That time we didn’t have an answer. End of the 90ies, long after his death, I discovered that he was involved in black magic… killing pigs in a blood ritual, and that the only positive publication he ever brought out was about Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati.

It would be too much to write it all down in this post. If you are interested in more background data you can check this:

All the best
Bernd
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:12 AM   #2
Brinty
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

I had a brief encounter with Scientology back in 1953 or 1954. I met and had a few sessions with one of their "Auditors" (as I seem to remember his title) and I can say that these sessions helped me give up smoking at the age of 17 or 18. So, I can say that Scientology was beneficial for me at that time.
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Old 10-08-2008, 08:09 AM   #3
tone3jaguar
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Reguardless of what religeon you are following, if any, the important part is to focus on the philisophical and spiritual lessons that help you in the moment and in the future. Any religeon that teaches that you should focus on the past and devote negative emotions to these past events is a false Zeitgueist.

I an not saying that scientology is because I have never studied it at all beyond what I saw on that one South Park episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrTrzsIxcXs

Last edited by tone3jaguar; 10-08-2008 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Bad.And right from the outset.But you are free to believe whatever you desire.But your history is false.Study up on Jack Parsons,the OTO,Crowley,and Hubbard's affiliation with those occultists.A cult or group doesn't need to be in ruling levels to be in the Illuminati pyramidal structure.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:25 PM   #5
CosmicStar
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Scientology to me, is another excuse for hummanity to be tied down into oblivion where those who demand a justification on life are blindly led. Scientology, like all other religions, are more or less a disinformed canvas of corruption..
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #6
Orion11
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

jus more corruption.

or more of the same. lol
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:49 PM   #7
DoctorTony
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd View Post
Hello everyone,

I am from Munich, Germany.
I read a couple of posts here in which this subject was mentioned, and I would like to share with you my own experience.

I first got in contact with Scientology in Berlin in 1975 at the age of 25. It was about the end of the Hippie-era. Lots of people were looking for explanations in life, why man and the world ticks as it does etc. In Germany there wasn’t much of an organization, at least it was not so much in the foreground. We got together in groups and we were all convinced that we can help each other and make the world a better place. One has to understand that in the 50ies the whole thing really started as a freedom movement. And spiritual freedom was what we were dedicating our lives to.

I joined staff in the Munich organization in about 1977 and left in 1981/82 when the whole organization sort of went black overnight.

Most of the time I was working in the intelligence department of the Guardian Office (an organization beside Scientology with the purpose to protect it) and my job was to investigate the sources behind the attacks against Scientology. This brought me quite an insight of the power-structures that time and what the “vested interests” were. I summarized it on a website called www.new-civilization.de.

When you hear about Scientology today – or let’s say from the early 80ies on - you see is a group called Scientology Church which put itself under the Illuminati structure… status – conformity – control.

Before that time it was very different.

I mean, everyone should ask this question. If Dianetics and Scientology were just fraud and Hubbard just a quack or a “science fiction writer” … why this incredible attack against it? I’m not talking about today. I’m talking about the 50ies, 60ies and 70ies. Why was Hubbard on the hit list of the intelligence services? Why was he attacked by the AMA, APA, FDA, IRS just to name a few? Because they were the good guys who were trying to protect us?

There is much more to this. When Hubbard developed Dianetics he entered the battleground of mind control. He was able to undo these mind control programs faster than they could be installed. Here is a short summary: http://www.freezone.de/english/timet..._BE_TAKEN_OVER

If it wasn’t for Hubbard and his movement against “psychiatry” (the side of psychiatry represented by MKULTRA etc., not the general psychiatrist) America would have had it’s concentration camps already in the 50ies (see Alaska Mental Health Act of 1955 - http://www.freezone.de/english/timetrack/1955.htm).

His dream was a world without war, criminality and insanity and a civilization we can all be proud of. His group betrayed him. The Scientology Church as well as its Guardian Office was infiltrated and finally taken over.
I remember… end of the 70ies… when I investigated the interest groups behind the attacks I ran into the Illuminati. When I reported that to management, I was taken off post.

Just to give you an example. In that time (in Germany) there was an evangelic priest who violently attacked Scientology, and we were asking ourselves… what makes this guy tick, what motivates him? That time we didn’t have an answer. End of the 90ies, long after his death, I discovered that he was involved in black magic… killing pigs in a blood ritual, and that the only positive publication he ever brought out was about Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati.

It would be too much to write it all down in this post. If you are interested in more background data you can check this:

All the best
Bernd
Very good post Bernd! I am also an ex-scientologist. I never joined an org, but understood the major themes and goals. I was always suspicious of people getting a hold of this material somehow and distorting it - much like every other religion. I've studied them all. This was the first religion to "open my eyes" to religion itself. I'm thankful for things like the 8 dynamics, axioms, etc. There is a lot there that gets misconstrued. Hubbard had insights in the 50s that I am just discovering now. There is clearly an agenda "off world" and many other agendas here that do not include the advancement of mankind. Scientology has become, regretfully, another cult-like organization that is backwards in its daily operations. I have been struggling to get things taken care of by several staff members. They never seem to be in comm with each other and this is something that makes me very disappointed.
I have outstanding courses owed to me and they've made several mistakes in the execution of said courses. I've even demanded my money back several times, but to no avail.
Something has always kept one foot in and one foot out of Scientology, but I've given up on the org - NOT the TECH.

Peace & thank you for these links.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

You ask, "if Scientology is a fraud, why the fight against it?"

Because the majority of the planet belongs to a religious system that tells them to. Because being asked to believe that a kid from the middle east two thousand years ago enjoyed a sexless birth, walked on water, and rose from the dead, is bad enough, and the things Scientology asks one to believe - on faith - make Muhammad's carpet ride or Joseph Smith's conversations with the almighty look like everyday occurances.

In that sense, Scientology is not a fraud, it is a faith, and exists as such precisely because it cannot be proven or disproven. As long as my government is not giving them any money, or they are not impinging in any way on my beliefs or freedom, they can do as they please.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:12 PM   #9
Ashatav
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

His founder was a friend of Alyester Crowley a satanist so screw up that's he claims to kill 150 childs a year in satanic rituals.

PD: AC was a mason so regarded that you can fill 5 pages with his masonic "medals". Masons, read the 30th-33 degree Morals And Dogma, not the one who anybody can read, find it.

PPD: look at this.

Cheers!
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:27 PM   #10
Brinty
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Scientology, like any religion or faith, is not bad or evil. BUT, the things that people do under it's umbrella, are.

Or, to put it another way, No religion or faith is at fault, only the way people twist and use it to suit their own perverted tastes.

Water is vital to life when used correctly, but if not used correctly, can cause drowning - which has been found to be rather detrimental to life.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:28 PM   #11
BeaTnik-BandiT
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

I would't even bother asking this question !!!! HAHA !
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Old 10-12-2008, 01:06 AM   #12
Shellie
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

L. Ron Hubbard
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:24 PM   #13
rhythm
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

scientology wo wooooooooooooo we waaaaaaaaaaaa ,very scary in my expierence , just keep repeating my mind is my own , im not a nut case , and i deffinitley do not want to stare into your eyes , got to go i thik=nk i left the iron on .you may get out .
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
mudra
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

It does'nt matter really how others behave, be it " good" or seemingly " bad ". What matters is how we take it because all these things are always an opportunity to work on ourselves, on the peace within where all judgements fade away .

A better world I believe is the outcome of having transcended oneself into Being .
The people you meet , the situations you find yourself into in a narrow sphere or a larger one are all there for us to learn the same lesson of emerging in the nature of a pure Spirit.

Allow yourself some gratitude and it will be very clear to you that in order to create a difference outside of yourself, you have first to create a difference inside of yourself.
Whenever you see something in this world that you would like to change, like war, for example, take a look at your own inner wars, and choose to find peace inside.
THAT IS THE WAY TO HEAL THE WORLD.

Bernd , the way you put your question " Scientology : good or bad " leads to dichotomic answers . One will go through the mind to answer this and take party.
How could you convey your spiritual insights so that they bring unity ?


Kindness
mudra
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:22 PM   #15
Jma
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

I don´t know how Ronald Hubbard´s Dianetics fell into my hands.I even read it.
His points were simple

1.Our minds were filled with "engrams"
2."Engrams" caused pain,
3.Only their machine could remove "engrams"
4.You had to pay a lot of money to use their machine.

If we follow this line of reasoning the intelligent forumers can tell where this leads too.
Maybe a scientologist can clarify if my understanding is wrong.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:47 PM   #16
aiwass322
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

I hope that they are better than their marketing attempts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVixMg4d-TA
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:56 PM   #17
Tantauri
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

dear jma,
having studied dianetics many years ago and since then having cinducted many counseling sessions, with all due respect, please allow me to set the record straight.
a simple explanation of the main points of dianectics are:
all experiences are recorded by the human mind.
(engrams) traumatic incidents of physical or severe emotional pain are recorded in a different manner and can cause reactions later on without the person who experienced them being aware of it
examining these incidents anew in the presence of someone trained in using certain techniques can dramatically lessen the power of of the incidents to effect the person and bring relief
the "machine" is only a meter than is used as an aid in locating forgotten or hard to remember incidents, it does nothing towards fixing anyone, no machine ever could

"by oneself evil is done, by oneself evil is undone...no man can save another....the buddhas are only teachers
Gautama Sidhartha
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:40 PM   #18
Truth voice 2012
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Did any1 hear of a journalist back in the early 90's who went undercover and joined up. The wierdest part for me was when she was being initiated, there was one part where she had to sit and stare into the eyes of a guy sitting right in front of her for hours. She reported that after a while it looked like the mans face was morphing. She said she seen what looked like "scales" appearing on his face and his eyes were changing shape and colour too. If i hadnt heard of Icke first I would have thought nothing of this. She never mentioned Icke or any of that Reptilian NWO stuff either. She thought It was just her going nuts from staring for ages. Any1 remember this? If so, do you know if theres any validity to this?
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:35 AM   #19
2infinityandbeyond
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Most of you guys forgot to mention ; What if scientoligy has some significance in our reality?

What if (fantasize here for a moment) we were just here living this physical world, as if it were the matrix. For the purpose of captivating our souls, so that we may be locked into this reincarnational cycle forever.

What if..

I'm suprised noone has asked this before.


Are you all so sure that we as spiritual entities are actually freely going along our evolutionary path.. or are we trapped in a "vannilla sky" esque scenario?


Someone gimme a shovel, alice told me this was just a fcuking fox tunnel!
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:09 PM   #20
Dusty Nothing
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

The institute has obviously been corrupted through time, so, no disrespect for anyone who believes in scientology, but I do think it's a bad thing.

That being said alot of the original philosophies and stories do have alot of relevance to what we as a race are only just finding out about these days.

But in my expierience all organized religeons are a farce.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:11 AM   #21
MAP
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad



'Anonymous' Member Unmasked, Charged With Web Attack on Scientology
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...ous-membe.html






Last edited by MAP; 10-18-2008 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:23 PM   #22
Myplanet2
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Anonymous has given a lot of exposure to the evils of the the Church of Scientology, but has demonstrated no willingness or ability to discern what might be positive in the original philosophy.

Having spent years in Scientology, I can say that there are many positive advances put forth, and many unique understandings and perspectives achieved.

That the church went bad doesn't negate that, IMO.

However anonymous does negate that, which to me is a disservice.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

I too was once involved in Scientology and like you believe the early motives and acts of this organization were in some ways good. I too believe that those within became greedy and saw this as an opportunity to feather their own nests and this led to its corruption as well as the need for conformity within its structure (fear). This too could be said of Christianity and almost any other charitable movement you could mention.

Everything is like the Curates Egg - good in parts, bad in others.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:43 AM   #24
Gnosis5
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

In one of my first past life sessions, using a more complete version of Dianetics, called R3X, I went back to my last life and in 1948 I was on the wrong side of the war and was thrown into a psychiatric hospital to get worked over for various reasons. I don't know how or why this happened, but I saw Ron Hubbard working with me. I snapped out of my sad state and went out of body. He said I should look him up when I get out and because of my then drugged state I took that as an unconscious command and this lifetime I certainly did go looking for him, but he had already died by then.

I am also a member of the Yahoo Group, T4R, and Freezone_Earth. T4R is an advance in what LRH presented. Freezone_earth is about R3X.

I also had a chance to process a past life in an earlier Scientology type organization, and I have even seen some Greys use a form of Dianetics, but for intel purposes only. The point I am making is that the psychotech called Dianetics is not a new invention: Someone remembered a few things from a distant past when this type of research was going on.

My take on LRH is that he did not take the chance to process out both sides of his polarities and/or compulsions. Today's psychotechs (PEAT, Idenics, Mace Method, R3X, etc.) go to great lengths to carefully process out the compulsions as they are presented. I am very careful when I have Hubby in session.

I agree with what people on this thread are saying about the early work being the best. I have read Geoffrey Filbert's "Excalibur Revisited".

My highest purpose at this point is to know higher and higher truths and that is where the CofS and I would never see eye to eye.

I think Scientology, like the full body of the Vedas is a bit too much for most people with their busy lives and distractions. It took me over 50 years of living a normal life before I could re-prioritize what is important to me.

And I would not advise many people to do what I am doing or to dive into Scientology. EFT and PEAT are great for most people. As in everything, CAVEAT EMPTOR.

We get a great sense of adventure from applying different processes to ourselves and finding out about ourselves and universes. The processes we use are an unveiling and a release from spiritual traps. Not very romantic, but they get the job done.

cheers!
Gnosis
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:47 AM   #25
DanDan
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Default Re: Scientology - good or bad

Scientology is but one channel on GOD's cable network. Just like every philosophy has merit for soul growth, even satanism. GOD has hundreds of channels on the network to take a look at. Most people watch 4 or 5 channels all the time, and think they understand everything. The book of Revelations talks about the seven churches and none of them are perfect. I read Dianetics when I was 16, and at that time I must say it helped me. I spent 15 years in church and that helped me but that was only 2 channels in my souls progress of study.GOD created all things folks, good and evil and all things in between for the soul to experience. There is good and bad in everything and I can't wait to get to the other side to find out how wrong I was about probably most everything I believed.
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