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Old 09-20-2008, 11:52 AM   #1
Antaletriangle
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Default Old people with dementia have a duty to die says Baroness Warnock



Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, says Baroness Warnock

By Steve Doughty
Last updated at 1:56 AM on 20th September 2008



Baroness Warnock: She has come under fire from pro-life groups
Elderly people with dementia are 'wasting' the lives of those who have to care for them, one of the country's most influential experts on medical ethics said yesterday.

Baroness Warnock said that for the old and sick who are contemplating dying, 'there is nothing wrong with feeling you ought to do so'.

Her remarks in an interview with a church journal were the first public suggestion from any expert with close links to Whitehall that euthanasia should not only be legal but that elderly people should be pressed towards death.

Lady Warnock said: 'If you are demented, you are wasting people's lives, your family's lives, and you are wasting the resources of the National Health Service.'

Her remarks were condemned as 'shocking ignorance' and 'barbaric' by Alzheimer's charities.

Right to life groups furiously accused Lady Warnock and fellow supporters of euthanasia of telling the public they want a right to choose while privately supporting compulsory killing.

Lady Warnock, 84, was the head of the committee which during the 1980s opened the way for legal research on human embryos.


Influential in education as well as in medical ethics, she became an open supporter of euthanasia after her ill husband was helped to die by his doctor in 1995.

She told the Church of Scotland's magazine Life and Work: 'I've just written an article called A Duty to Die? for a Norwegian periodical. I wrote it really suggesting that there is nothing wrong with feeling you ought to do so for the sake of others as well as yourself.'

She added: 'I am absolutely, fully in agreement with the argument that if pain is insufferable, then someone should be given help to die, but I feel there is a wider argument that if somebody absolutely, desperately wants to die because they are a burden to their family or the state, then I think they too should be allowed to die.'

Lady Warnock first suggested that the elderly and sick should die rather than becoming a burden four years ago.

In 2006 she supported an attempt by fellow peers to push through a law allowing doctors to kill patients suffering unbearable pain.

Some 700,000 in Britain have dementia and this is expected to double over the next 30 years.

Rebecca Wood, chief executive of the Alzheimer's Research Trust, said: 'Lady Warnock demonstrates a shocking ignorance when espousing her highly insensitive views.

'People with dementia can live quite comfortably when cared for properly. The solution to our dementia crisis is not euthanasia; the answer is more research so we can find new treatments, preventions and a cure.'

Neil Hunt, of the Alzheimer's Society, said: 'With the right care, a person can have a good quality of life very late into dementia.

'To suggest that people with dementia should not be entitled to that quality of life or that they should feel that they have some sort of duty to kill themselves is nothing short of barbaric.'

Phyllis Bowman, of the Right to Life group, said: 'When has loving somebody been a waste?

'We always thought Lady Warnock was in favour of coercive or compulsory euthanasia.

'Her views are an illustration that while euthanasia is promoted as a right to choose, it pretty rapidly becomes no right to live.'

Euthanasia is a crime in England. But the 2005 Mental Capacity Act endorsed the right of people to have a 'living will' in which they can order doctors to kill them if they become too ill to speak for themselves.

Patients are killed by the withdrawal of water tubes, which are considered to be treatment.

Doctors who ignore such living wills - or ignore the instructions of someone appointed by a patient to make medical decisions for them - commit a crime and can face prison.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Warnock.html

Last edited by Antaletriangle; 09-20-2008 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 09-20-2008, 04:16 PM   #2
addalight
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

How reptilian.
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:25 PM   #3
Nik
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

I will not take sides here... but it is a very tricky subject. If someone is completely paralyzed, can you ask them if they want to continue living like that? You can, but would you get a reply? Same with dementia - you can ask, but given the person's mental state, what sort of reply may you get?

Yes, 'duty to kill yourself' is taking it too far, but the overall issue is very much debatable.

Again, not taking sides, just urging anyone reading this to be a bit more cautious before jumping to conclusions about such decisions.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:21 PM   #4
Colin
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

This is a VERY VERY controversial subject guys!

SO..please choose your words very carefully, and be aware that others may not share your point of view, which is their right

Thanks for understanding..

Last edited by Colin; 09-20-2008 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:37 PM   #5
doodah
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

Traditional Eskimo society is the only place I know of where older people voluntarily check out when they feel the time is right. I personally (for myself and no one else) also want to choose my time and check out voluntarily in a nonviolent way, but I see myself being very old when I do that.

To be in a state where you cannot choose, however, makes this topic very tricky. A living will requesting a "do not resusitate" or "no extreme life-saving measures" should be made if that is your desire. I would certainly do that, especially in thinking of myself ending up unable to choose.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

****
Disclaimer
This is just my opinion on the Subject.
****

Bit harsh the subject, but my angle from a spiritual side of things.
Our spirit incarnates into a body to Experience (call them lessons if you want).

This covers a vast range of situations we find ourselves in as we progress through life, experiences are gained at all stages through life and we never stop learning, while here and after!.

Certain experiences will not come forward until the time is right and by us all getting old and the Suit called the body we are wearing starts dying, then new experiences will come into play.

These are not only personal experiences, but also part of other peoples experiences that need to be done.

No one has the right to stop anyones experience.

An example:

A big one for many people is that they are givers all their lifes, everyone turns to them, they give by their nature without even thinking about it. They care for people all their lifes.

When they get older and cannot care for themselves, they then have to give in and let other people care for them, this can be hard for people that are used to others being dependant on them all this time, but they maybe need this experience of being looked after, rather then always looking after.

So two big experiences here, the person being cared for and the people doing the caring.

Never judge anyones predicament as we do not know what experiences they agreed to do while here and also others involved.

Have an opinion by all means but do not interfere as we do not know the full story as such, let alone finishing off their experiences for them, because we think it is right.


Cheers

Sean.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:25 PM   #7
Zarathustra
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

This reply should not be taken as endorsing or rejecting any proposal related to this subject.

My mother died this July. She had suffered from an agressive form of dementia known as Pick's. I took care of her for the last two years of her life, for the last year she no longer knew who I was and I had to call her by her first name in order to get her attention. Her ability to speak left about halfway through 2007. One day, right after last Christmas, she came to me while I was cooking in the kitchen, tugged me on my shirt, and said the last coherent sentence I ever heard from her, and the first one in many months. She said "Please kill me, please kill me." I told her that I couldn't do that, and she put her head down and walked off.

I don't tell this here to garner sympathy, or to influence someone's opinion on the subject, but rather to make sure that someone who has not personally experienced a loved one with dementia understands that it is very difficult to know its reality.

Thank you.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:18 PM   #8
arcora
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, s

This appears to be a foot in the door for the eugenics crowd.

First it's people with dementia.

Then it'll be people with other incurable diseases.

Then they'll add anyone who is retarded.

It won't take long before they're coming for you.
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:48 PM   #9
Stephen
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die says Baroness Warnock

What happened to Individual Rights?

This is an Individual Decision....no one elses.

Someone mentioned being paralyzed.
That would drive me nuts. To be totally paralyzed.
I would wish to END it right then and there.

As for Dementia...that is a tough one and I would handle it for myself as it would happen.
Our Soul is FINE. It is our body and it's Processor that is not.
Still, with all of that then in my own 'shoes' I would not want my family to keep me around and drain resources.
I would rather 'Move On' in spirit and do what I can for them in that capacity.

It boils down to the Individual and not the Group.
It is the Individual's Decision overall and should be accepted and acknowledged.

We have too much 'Group' making decisions for the Individual anymore.
That to me is not Freedom of Choice!
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
MisterPanda
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Default Re: Old people with dementia have a duty to die says Baroness Warnock

In my opinion, it a matter of letting go.
For me personally, if i ever reached that states, i say ya kill me, let me continue on my journey of experience in the next world since my experience on this plain of existence has pretty much reach a stand still.
However, a lot of people in general are afraid of death and scared of letting go of their love ones. A lot of people believe that you only have one life you know. Therefore, when someone dies, they believe that end of it, the last time they see them. Frankly, people would rather hold on to their love ones for their own benefits rather than letting them die. Even if it against the love ones wishes. Though, this may not be true in all cases, I do believe it is for the most part.

I mean think about it, if someone you love is in a state where they simply do not want to live in, would you let them die?

now, if you were in a state where you simply don't want to live in, you think your love one would let you die?
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