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Old 01-24-2010, 06:14 PM   #1
illuminate
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Default can you FORGIVE us?

forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment,
indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or
mistake, and/or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution.


forgiveness and letting go can lead you down the path of healing and peace.
forgiveness is a healing journey for both body and soul. yet, even if you
know in your heart that you want or need to forgive someone, the path
toward peace can be difficult.

sept. 11th 2001 was a rude and violent wake up call for me.
I was two blocks away from the towers on that horrible morning, spent 8
years on head pills trying to cope with it. and even today, many years later,
those images are as fresh in my mind as the day they happened.

this holds true for most anyone who has born witness to a tragedy. it can
create depression, anxiety, panic and post traumatic stress disorder...
which in turn can create quite the domino effect of negative behaviors and
patterns in one's life.

so how does someone overcome something like this?

forgiveness.

I bring up this up because we are now fast approaching a time when many
truths will finally be set free. and as joyous as this seems, it will be very
debilitating for most people. most of these truths will rock the foundation of
people's belief systems and be very terrifying. remember how you felt
finding most of these things out for yourself, or how you feel about 911?

I've been able to forgive the adults who took advantage, a mother who
wasn't ready, a father who wasn't there, the friends who lied to me, the
lovers who've betrayed me and most important, I've even been able to
forgive myself... but 911 has been the most difficult.

maybe because 911 affected so many people, not just myself. maybe
because of the horrendous injustice. either way, it has been very hard.

so I wonder, as we are approach some of the biggest disclosures known to
man, will we all be able to forgive all the lies and deception?

after all the other emotions a human goes through when facing something
very bad, forgiveness and love are the only things to set us free from the
pain. so maybe we should start practicing forgiveness now, before the all
big ones hit.

forgive your family, forgive your friends, your neighbors, your enemies,
yourself, your governments, the bad e.t.s... even forgive all the
malevolent beings too.

not only will you be freeing yourself from the pain, you will be doing what
I think is the greatest thing you could give another person besides
unconditional love... leading by example.

maybe if we (the ones who are awake) all start doing this now, we will set
the pace for all our friends and loved ones who are not yet aware.

just a thought


~ love in you ~
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:24 PM   #2
Kinsuemei2
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

It' looks like more than a thought.. It's a perspective! and a very good one at that, brilliant writing my friend.

Kinsuemei
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:34 PM   #3
morguana
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

i will second that
sounds like you have found your way illuminate
and yes i believe that you are right in that we can by our own thoughts and actions set an example for others, leading by example really does work, its a beautifull in its passiveness, and so not judging and aggressive.

Quote:
not only will you be freeing yourself from the pain, you will be doing what
I think is the greatest thing you could give another person besides
unconditional love... leading by example.

maybe if we (the ones who are awake) all start doing this now, we will set
the pace for all our friends and loved ones who are not yet aware.

just a thought
thank you for shareing this insight
love
m x
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:41 PM   #4
Stargazer1965
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Nice one Illuminate...I've been wrestling with this for so long....It's like an extra limb you don't really need. An itch that no matter how much you scratch doesn't go away.

There was another thread today with a short film I watched about the EGO and vengeance stems from the great liar EGO.

The EGO is bruised so we have to lash out at someone....and it's all a lie.

I hold grudges forever and the only one that ever was on the receiving end of my vengeance or was hurt by it....was ME

I'm starting to lay all those things down ....hoping to NEVER pick them up again.

Peace Y'all
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:54 PM   #5
illuminate
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargazer1965 View Post
Nice one Illuminate...I've been wrestling with this for so long....It's like an extra limb you don't really need. An itch that no matter how much you scratch doesn't go away.

There was another thread today with a short film I watched about the EGO and vengeance stems from the great liar EGO.

The EGO is bruised so we have to lash out at someone....and it's all a lie.

I hold grudges forever and the only one that ever was on the receiving end of my vengeance or was hurt by it....was ME

I'm starting to lay all those things down ....hoping to NEVER pick them up again.

Peace Y'all
THX Stragazer for being so forthcoming, we need to hear this to know we are not alone!

and THX to you, Kinsuemei2 and Morguana for your understanding and love.

in writing this post and starting this thread, it is helping me to find
forgiveness for 911. this has been the hardest thing for me to do, and it has
taken the past 9 years to even get to a point where I able and ready to do
so.

my heart goes out to all my brothers and sisters for what they are going to
be made aware of soon. I want to be the best I can be to help others get
through everything we are about to face.

it's one thing to know something and a whole other thing to actually implement it.
"be the change you want to see..."

we CAN do it.
and when we can't quite do it alone, we CAN do it together

I forgive us!


~ love in you ~
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:39 PM   #6
Myplanet2
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

difficulty in forgiving looks to me now as a function of the proverbial veil. While we are disconnected from the rest of ourselves, as in higher aspects, we are really not privy to what agreements we hold in our higher aspects.

I recently noticed once again how great tragedy is met with great outpourings of love and compassion. The Haiti Quake. I knew at once higher work was accompanying the sorrow and pain on the ground. Asking my higher guides about it, they instantly confirmed what my intuition was telling me. On a soul level, those courageous beings in Haiti were using that incident as a ride home. They knew they were not going to be participating in this "on the ground" ascension, and were going to be checking out early. They volunteered on a soul level, a level of their existence they are not even probably aware of in their 3D Aspects, to be in Haiti at that particular time to experience that mass "leaving" because it is not only a way to "go out with a bang", but it was known by all that the resultant out pouring of love and compassion from all over the world would crank our cosmic conscious vibratory level as a collective incarnated here on earth, up to a new frequency level.

I've come to view the 911 episode in much the same way. No matter how much the negative beings have used that incident to attempt drive in ever more draconian controls on the populations, the immediate counter wave of love and compassion, that followed within minutes, the shock and fear of the actual event, caught them completely by surprise. That wasn't supposed to happen. The world was supposed to fall neatly under their control after 911. It didn't. The worlds heart opened up a little more, and continues to do so every time they engineer another of their nasty events.

On our higher aspect levels, we are doing much much better in this game than it appears on the ground. We are managing to transmute every one of their feeble attempts at driving us down into fear into an opportunity to increase our love and compassion.

And it's making them a little trigger shy. It's like everytime they shoot one of us, the rest grow stronger and more loving.

Forgiveness is easy when you consider that everyone of their evil deeds, drives us inexorably towards love and compassion, instead of the expected fear and dismay.

we are winning this.

Last edited by Myplanet2; 01-24-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:48 PM   #7
Astra
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Dear Illuminate - Beautiful Soul!
You writting is so honest, so full of Love, true Love. I am moved.

"To reconcile conflicting parties, we must have the ability to understand the suffering of both sides." -- Thich Nhat Hanh

Bllesings for you!

in Love and Light
Astra

"Let us forgive each other - only then will we live in peace”-- Leo Tolstoy
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

You must forgive first yourself and then ALL others , they( being tptb) feed on the negative emotion . From your post you've done fanstasticlly well
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:10 PM   #9
illuminate
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Thank you very much Myplanet2 for this valuable reminder.
this darn illusion can seem so real at times that it's easy to forget
that we choose...
Thank you for your wisdom

and what a very sweet and heartfelt reply Astra...THANK U

and Scanner, your statement is exactly the wisdom we need to hear and be reminded of... THANK U

and THANK U to the rest of you for reading and opening your hearts!


~ love in you ~
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

These are the threads that make a difference. Thank you so much.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:41 PM   #11
lindabaker
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

So, you are a witness from two blocks away. That's so close you couldn't even see the top of the towers without straining your neck to look way, way, up. What you must have seen is enough for several lifetimes! You can of course stop reliving by changing your memory loop. As soon as one starts up, recognize it, and release it. Also, you don't have to repeat similar events in order to "freshen" the pain. I'm so glad you know this! Move above, by moving up on the spiral. Dr. Katie Gentile wrote an article about recovering from seeing the NYC towers fall. She worked in the city and witnessed both the tower fall and the Hudson River plane incident from a dock in Jersey. I will send her article to you. She has some very interesting ideas about forgiveness, retribution, and healing. Thank you so much for opening your heart to us. We won't forget but we can forgive. It's the only way out. Love to you, Linda
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Apologies for length...couldn't figure out any other way to let Illuminate see this. Katie is a clinical psychologist who specializes in the impact of trauma. Linda


Original with permission from Katie to Linda March, 2009.

SAME PLACE, DIFFERENT STORY --Katie Gentile, Ph.D.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, I was on my way to work as usual when my partner, who had returned to our apartment to get something he forgot, ran out saying there had been an explosion at the World Trade Center. A helicopter or plane had hit it. We continued to the train (we live in Hoboken, directly across the Hudson River from Manhattan near the World Trade Center).
We rounded the street corner and approached the first pier in Hoboken to catch the train into the city. The sight of the Towers against a beautiful clear blue sky came into view, as well as an enormous fire with smoke streaming from the North Tower.
From there, near the first pier in Hoboken, I watched as a plane suddenly appeared low in the sky and struck the South Tower. I turned to my partner, and we left, not knowing or understanding what was about to take place.
This pier is where people gathered to watch from across the river as the towers burned and fell. It was a busy site for the next week or so, as people from throughout the area came to see the space of absence in the sky.
This past Thursday as I was walking again to the train my partner called to say a plane had crashed into the Hudson River. Deja-vu. I went to the pier again to see what was happening. This time it was different.
First, word was that everyone had survived. Additionally, this plane was surrounded by ferries, the Coast Guard and the Circle Line ships who were all able to help. Like watching the events of 9/11, there was something surreal about seeing a plane float down the river. But unlike 9/11, it was not terrifying; it was merely surreal.
I am an academic psychologist and trained psychoanalyst. I publish and specialize in the impact of trauma. So it was interesting to me that as I watched the plane float by, knowing the positive outcome, I felt I was re-experiencing 9/11 in a new way.
It is thought that people who have experienced trauma attempt to master it through repetition. For me, this was a healing repetition. Here I was in the same place, looking at another plane crash, under the same sunny blue sky, but it was markedly different.
Many of the things that we were unable to do during 9/11, we were able to do this time. The New York Waterways Ferries we often take into Manhattan were the first responders. And this time, in this situation, they were able to save the lives of the passengers.
It felt on Thursday like this plane crash, while in no way being a good thing -- I would not have wanted to be in that plane nor in the frigid water hoping for help -- was responded to in a new way.
Yes, no one died. But the pilot's knowledge is being celebrated. He knew what to do. The benefits of a skilled leader are being acknowledged as a good thing; a life-saving quality and a necessity.
I feel like the plane's successful water landing burst a bubble for me that was created by seven years of world-altering insidious abuses of power by U.S. leaders who showed no capacity to reflect, think or hold emotion. It burst it with a story about knowledgeable leaders, such as the pilots and crew, who knew what to do, and did it.
Again, I am in no way saying the crash was a good thing because it wasn't. Even though no one died, it doesn't mean that people weren't impacted and potentially harmed in significant ways.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:53 PM   #13
illuminate
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindabaker View Post
So, you are a witness from two blocks away. That's so close you couldn't even see the top of the towers without straining your neck to look way, way, up. What you must have seen is enough for several lifetimes! You can of course stop reliving by changing your memory loop. As soon as one starts up, recognize it, and release it. Also, you don't have to repeat similar events in order to "freshen" the pain. I'm so glad you know this! Move above, by moving up on the spiral. Dr. Katie Gentile wrote an article about recovering from seeing the NYC towers fall. She worked in the city and witnessed both the tower fall and the Hudson River plane incident from a dock in Jersey. I will send her article to you. She has some very interesting ideas about forgiveness, retribution, and healing. Thank you so much for opening your heart to us. We won't forget but we can forgive. It's the only way out. Love to you, Linda
Thank you Linda and I appreciate you!!!

and yes 2 blocks away was too close, I ran screaming for my life when the
first tower collapsed and didn't stop running and screaming until I hit the
east river and could run no more. I thought for sure I was dead and my
boyfriend at the time, was standing there with me, video taping the whole
thing. we lost each other in the sea of white smoke and weren't reunited
until almost 24 hours later.

that is the day I learned the true meaning of the kindness of strangers.

THX for the advice on changing my memory loop, this is important for me,
because it's the images that I can't seem to forget.

if anyone else want to speak up, please do, it's an amazing release to talk
about it!

~ love in you ~
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:08 PM   #14
sjkted
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Yes, we can and we will. We are starting a domino effect right now. We cannot get to anywhere good in the future until we let good of the old. As more and more people get excited about the future, that excitement will be contagious. With such a positive outlook, there will be no more room to hold on to what has happened in days past.

--sjkted
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:26 PM   #15
illuminate
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkted View Post
Yes, we can and we will. We are starting a domino effect right now. We cannot get to anywhere good in the future until we let good of the old. As more and more people get excited about the future, that excitement will be contagious. With such a positive outlook, there will be no more room to hold on to what has happened in days past.

--sjkted
EXACTLY! and FANTASTIC attitude sjkted, thank you for setting this example.

that is why I bring up forgiveness, it's a perfect way to truly move forward
and leave the past in the past. plus, it helps heal your soul... I only threw
in my personal journey to give a reference point and to show that it's
always possible.

I for one, am VERY excited about our future and think 2012 will be the
beginning of many amazing celebrations


~ love in you ~
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:44 AM   #16
cloud9
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

I absolutely support the idea or forgiveness every day of our lives.
The most incredible paradigm we have to understand is than we don't know in a conscious level that perhaps some of the people who have done wrong to us, could be other aspects of ourselves doing what they came to do so we can repay or balance karmic debts.
Every time somebody says something about revenge or their desire to see other person in jail or dead or whatever else because they did something terrible, I always wonder what if.... and the lesson is always the same: NO JUDGMENT!!!
We just don't know.
Couples divorce in a sea of grudge and much negative energy without understanding that ALL relationships end at one time or another, nobody is obliged to be with us forever or for a lifetime, some relationships are meant for a short time and life or the universe takes care of that in very curious ways so we have to end the relationship even though we sometimes attach ourselves to other people because of fear or insecurity.
I really believe that just when we have the chance of remembering past lives this concept becomes really clear, otherwise most people keep on believing this is the only life we live and our only chance at love and hate.
So definitely forgiveness it's not just a good idea, actually forgiveness is LOVE for ourselves and others and it's the fastest way to light our some times heavy load, it makes us feel sooooo much better.
In order to do that, judgment has to out of our lives.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:48 AM   #17
Jack
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Thank you for this awesome thread!
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Thank-you illuminate...and all posters on this thread. 9/11 seems to have awakened a sleeping giant...in a good way...even though it was probably intended to do just the opposite.

illuminate...you mentioned that your partner videotaped some of the tragedy that day. What became of that tape? Did it reveal any hidden clues? Also...you mentioned that there are revelations which will be difficult for people to deal with. Are these revelations related in any way to 9/11? It seems to me that 9/11 is part of a huge Pandora's Box...which includes a lot of what gets discussed in Avalon.

Reasonable immunity in exchange for disclosure, cooperation, and restitution...seems reasonable to me. Forgiveness is a good thing...but reasonable restitution should be a part of the package. Punishment may also have to be meted out under the laws of the land...but somehow the goal should be to turn the bad-guys into good-guys...and for the rest of us to forgive...but not necessarily forget.

Namaste
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud9 View Post
I really believe that just when we have the chance of remembering past lives this concept becomes really clear, otherwise most people keep on believing this is the only life we live and our only chance at love and hate.
Not just that. It also points out how petty it is to have grudges with other people once you realize what causes some of these "problems" with other people that last lifetimes to resolve. None of it serves any purpose whatsoever. It is simply garbage to be discarded once you see it for what it is.

--sjkted
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Old 01-25-2010, 10:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Great thread Tania.

Sometimes I'll wind up in a conversation with someone who says something like "I can never forgive him or her for such a thing." I tell them that forgiveness isn't something that you do to let the other person off the hook. Forgiveness is actually a gift to the self. It frees you from the poison thoughts and resentments that when harbored will corrode both your physical and spiritual health. It takes the weight off of your shoulders and puts it back where it belongs.

Last edited by shiftmonkey; 01-25-2010 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:47 AM   #21
Stargazer1965
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

I wanted to add one more thing....This was the event that led to my awakening....Nothing added up and what was being pandered on the TV never set right with me.

But it took till Illuminate said it in this thread to bring something home to me.

I realized I was still mad and angry about these folks dieing so needlessly.

That it was an even on so many levels trying to make fools out of us to think we would swallow this garbage.

Then yesterday I realized it was my EGO screaming for revenge and retribution and the only thing I could do is really forgive.

In that forgiveness I grow and move on.

Whatever this was orchestrated for....it only worked a short while...Now here comes the PEace blowback!!!!

Peace all
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:47 PM   #22
mudra
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Thank you illuminate for this beautifull thread

The more we forgive ..the more we Love
The more we love .. the more we enjoy the present moment
The more we enjoy the present moment ..the more we are at peace
The more we are at peace ..the more we balance the world.
Love is every step .

Love for You
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:11 PM   #23
pedro m.b.
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Forgiveness is choosing to love. It is the first skill of self-giving love. --Mahatma Gandhi
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:50 PM   #24
illuminate
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Default Re: can you FORGIVE us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
illuminate...you mentioned that your partner videotaped some of the tragedy that day. What became of that tape?
I'm sure he still has it. we separated not long after 911 and I moved from
my beloved NYC in 2002. I'm sure he probably sold/gave the tape to someone
(he worked in the entertainment biz)



Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Did it reveal any hidden clues?
unfortunately no, it mostly contained the horror. people jumping to escape,
and the screams... I should have NEVER watched the darn thing, but I did,
and these are some of the images I am now desperately trying to forget.



Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Also...you mentioned that there are revelations which will be difficult for people to deal with. Are these revelations related in any way to 9/11?

gosh I sure hope not
I was referring to (and sorry if I implied otherwise) the truths about E.T's,
religions, governments, HOW POWERFUL WE ARE... most of what has been
kept from humankind will shake us at the core of our being, our beliefs
systems, to learn that most of what we've been taught is a lie. how is
someone going to feel when they find out that their religion is man made
and not all true, or that their government has been brainwashing them since
they started going to school. no-one likes to be lied to, or betrayed, and I
worry that some of these truths will be so hard to swallow for most, that
forgiveness will be the last thing on their minds.

I want everyone to know, that no matter what, it is ALL OK. that it is not
real, this is an illusion. we chose this to have the experience, to learn, to
evolve and no matter how horrific something may seem, like 911, we chose
to experience it so that we can have the chance to forgive... gosh I hope
that makes sense.

let us remember... all we need is LOVE

so, lets take this LOVE and spread it, share it, give it... we CAN tip the
scales, we CAN create anything we want. we CAN win the game.

~ I Love Us ~

Last edited by illuminate; 01-26-2010 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:50 PM   #25
illuminate
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