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Old 02-24-2009, 05:47 AM   #26
eraser2012
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Ttc:

Let me start by saying that I respect your opinions and have read your posts & that what I'm about to say is not meant to disregard your thoughts or insult your intelligence. This said:

Be careful when stating opinions that you don't dress them up as fact. There are many, myself included, who would disagree strongly with virtually all of your rational on the intrinsic value of gold/silver. While it is true that you can not eat gold, the example you gave about its use in trade is not very compelling. If farmer Joe grows corn and wheat and rancher Sam raises pigs and chickens and I approach them with whatever goods or skills I possess seeking to trade, but neither Joe or Sam have use or need for those goods or skills, there is a need for a trade medium, or currency. Without this trade medium all parties lose because Joe and Sam, while they possess valuable goods, can not survive on those goods alone, nor can they count on another person walking up behind me who happen to possess whatever it is they are in need of. The reason gold/silver, etc possess value in a different way than fiat currency is the same reason anything has value; scarcity. Your button example is misguided as buttons are easily attainable and in no short supply. Gold/Silver has been used historically as currency because it can not be created at will as can paper "money".

Next, I suggest you understand the history of events you reference to make your points. Such is the case with gold confiscation and the seizing of safe deposit boxes both in terms of what actually transpired and the stated reasons for why it occurred. I trust in your ability to find this information on your own and will save my fingers the additional keystrokes, but suffice it to say private gold ownership is very different today than it was in the 30's and it is not only entirely impractical for door to door collection of said gold, but would be met with resistance that would make it far too costly and time intensive. Even in the 30's one could have easily retained their gold, and many, many did just that. Plus, the ratio of gold to silver as well as the ratio of silver to fiat currency prevents any worry that there would be silver confiscation, not to mention its uses beyond currency.

I'll end this here and simply say that I am sure you are preparing in the way you see best and I applaud your enthusiasm and contributions to this forum. I will agree with you that anybody who is preparing only through gold/silver acquisition is bound for a rude awakening as food, clean water and other supplies will be critically important. However, there is an equally convincing argument to be made for anybody preparing entirely without securing a globally recognized trade medium as no individual could possibly hope to survive independent of others solely on the resources they have/can acquire on their own. Food runs out, crops fail, weather changes, disasters occur, filters exhaust, animals die, resources dwindle, fuel gets spent. All I'm trying to say is keep an open mind and be careful promulgating but a single way through what lies ahead.

Thanks again for your posts.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:47 AM   #27
Dantheman62
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Dollar Backed by Gold


When people buy gold, many seem to have the misconception that the US dollar is backed by gold. Well ... it used to be. The US currency, like many other currencies at the time, was backed by physical gold kept in Fort Knox and other places.

In 1933 the US abandoned the Gold standard along with many other nations, such as Italy in '34, Belgium in '35 and others during the 1930s. Switzerland was one of the last countries to drop the gold standard and this was done in 1999 by the approval of a new constitution that eliminated the traditional requirement for the country's currency to be backed by gold.

The gold standard monetary system is a system in which the standard economic unit of account is a fixed weight of gold. Under such a gold standard, currency issuers guaranteed to redeem notes, upon demand, for that amount of gold. Also governments that employed such a fixed unit of account, were able to redeem their notes to other governments in gold and share a fixed-currency relationship.

However, these days, the gold standard is not currently used by any government or central bank, having been replaced completely by fiat currency. Money is NOT, therefore backed by gold, or any other precious metal but, instead, is backed by faith. The money is, in other words, as good as people believe it is good. People are generally educated to regard money as a precious commodity in itself by virtue of the amount needed to purchase desirable and needed items.

By controlling the interest rate and the amount of money in circulation together with the use of a tax monitoring system, makes it easier to manipulate the economy.

Since the abandonment of the gold standard, economies around the globe have shown the apparency of a healthy economy, but in reality what has happened is that there has been little or no check on inflation resulting in a decreasing value of the currency, such as the US dollar so that it now requires many more dollars to purchase the same items as it did many years ago.

The value of gold has remain the same however with one ounce of gold still purchasing the same as it did 20 or 50 years ago.

What we use today is a system of fiat money. One glossary defines money as "money that is intrinsically useless; and suitable only as a medium of exchange. A more accurate definition perhaps is that money is, "an idea backed by confidence."

The main benefit of a gold standard is that it insures a relatively low level of inflation. In articles such as "What is the Demand for Money?" , we see that inflation is caused by a combination of four factors:

1. The supply of money goes up.
2. The supply of goods goes down.
3. Demand for money goes down.
4. Demand for goods goes up.

So long as the supply of gold does not change too quickly, then the supply of money will stay relatively stable. The gold standard prevents a country from printing too much money. If the supply of money rises too fast, then people will exchange money (which has become less scarce) for gold (which has not). If this goes on too long, then the treasury will eventually run out of gold.

A gold standard restricts the Federal Reserve from enacting policies which significantly alter the growth of the money supply which in turn limits the inflation rate of a country. This may give an inkling of the reasoning behind the removal of the gold standard.

So it would appear that the major benefit to the gold standard is that it can prevent long-term inflation in a country. However, as Brad DeLong points out, "if you do not trust a central bank to keep inflation low, why should you trust it to remain on the gold standard for generations?" It does not look like the gold standard will make a return to the United States anytime in the foreseeable future with the dollar being back by gold.

None of this should make any difference when it comes to buying gold of course. In fact, to buy gold is probably a better idea than to buy currency!



References:
http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/money_demand.htm

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Pol...dstandard.html

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/o....gold.standard

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Pol...dstandard.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard




http://goldprice.org/buying-gold/200...d-by-gold.html
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:59 AM   #28
TtC
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

I think something needs to be straighten out first as I worked in the jewelry industry for twelve years.

Firstly, appraisal prices are a fraud. There are about six different types of appraisals depending on the situation.

Secondly, when you are doing cash4gold, you are selling your jewelry at scrap prices, meaning below spot.

Here's some math:

If you have a ring that is 14Kt gold and weights five pennyweights (1 pennyweight = 1.55517384 grams, so that is 7.78 grams) and want to sell it for scrap it goes like this:

They will firstly take the bid price, which is 987.10 as of right now, and divide it by 20 because there are 20 pennyweights in a troy oz, which is how gold is weighed.

987.10/20= $49.36 per pennyweight of 24kt pure gold. Remember, your ring is 14Kt. The percentage of gold is 14/24 which is 0.583. This is the actual gold content. Take the following:

49.36 x 0.583 = $28.79 per pennyweight of 14Kt gold.

They won't give you full market price because that won't cover refining costs so dock 10%. We now have $25.91/dwt.

Your ring is 5 dwt (pennyweights), so 5 x 25.91 = $129.57

Take the 129.57 and they will then remove another 10% from the 129.57 for labor and shipping costs.

Your ring, which if bought new the day before would have cost about $475 new, now gets you $117.

Like I said before, there is no way to make a profit on this as a consumer, BUT for those with broken jewelry, you might as well.

As for the diamonds and whatnot, if they were smart enough to take them out of the jewelry before they sent them off, they could only sell them to a jeweler willing to buy and they would only pay out less than what they can buy them for new from a wholesaler.

The markup on jewelry is usually three times, but don't blame them, your clothing has a markup of ten times. Jewelers only get targeted because you can sell it for scrap and people get mad. They have to make a living, too.

It is your choice what you do with your gold, but take responsibility for your actions.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:13 AM   #29
TtC
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

eraser2012:

I agree totally with your first paragraph, but I was making a point by using such an obscure example.

Your second paragraph on the other hand is only so solid. Yes, the US government confiscated gold and they royally screwed over the American public in the process because they were paying out paper money below value in order to pay off US debt, or at least that's what the history books say. BUT the point I am trying to make that it seems no one is taking notice of is if they really want to take your gold they will and will do so by force. I doubt this would happen, but it is a possibility.

I would also like to note that money that is not gold or silver is illegal in the USA and only congress has the right to print currency, not the fed.

The last thing I would like to say is why do you need a means of exchange at all? If the level of consciousness reaches a higher level why cannot all things be free? In the current situation, this is not possible, but it seams, as we have seen, people need their money.

And Keynesian economics as well as Austrian economics do not work as we can see by reading the daily paper.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:06 AM   #30
Humble Janitor
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernSantuary View Post
The purpose of this forum is to help people form communities to transition through the coming changes. If you have a proposal, then it's your choice to propose it. With a 10,000 acre ranch, and a business, then you have a great capacity to make a difference.


My resources are much less, so I cannot start in the same way. But that is not important. We each have our own path, and we only need to be true to that. The land I have is in a good location to survive earthquakes and floods, but the limiting factor really is food production, and the problem I see there is energy, or lack of it (I'm looking at aquaponics). Without some breakthrough in energy production, the number of people that it can support is limited.

It's probably more important that you give your proposal, considering your greater resources; what your expectations are for people to get involved. Do you expect people to be able to do all things? as in the quote by Heilein?
I don't know if I'm going to network with anyone here but I do have a friend or two who are aware as I am. I don't know how good it'll do me but I choose not to worry and just go with the flow. If I have to leave my possessions behind, so be it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:31 AM   #31
Czymra
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

As a sidekick: Can we even be guaranteed that gold can't be reproduced? With whatever else is fluttering around this forum I'm weary to accept such as a fact. To me the only scarce thing on earth is the sum of hep, love and assistance. Do the market maths on what happens when that becomes abundant.

I know it's far out to measure something like human service against a loaf of bread, but those basic needs seem to be the only real currency that can probably always be exchanged. The only problem there is longevity but maybe that is a good element to keep the trade rolling at all times?
I know next to nothing of the market so I'm just talking into the blue here.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:13 PM   #32
Surial
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Wink Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

And if the Amero is introduced as a strategy to save us in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, will this gold be used for that currency? Maybe we need a heads up on what will happen.

But then how do you make those amounts go digital into a computer or bank account? Do you see the contradiction there?

By the way, great answers so far. You have turned this thread into a good source of information. Thanks for the information on cash4gold dantheman - I knew my hunch was right and you confirmed it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:49 PM   #33
NorthernSanctuary
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

There has been Amero coins and paper currency shown on this forum. If this is any indication, what people will use will not be any different than the paper that you are using now. The only question is if the government will claim that it is backed by gold to any degree. Also, the financial problem at this time is global, so the TPTB may use this as an opening to introduce a world currency as an alternative, if they can pull it off. A NWO has to eventually have a world currency.

As far as gold being artificially produced, there is no foreseeable way that we can transmute elements in a cost effective way. We would need to manipulate elements at an atomic level to do this. You have to remember that the more advanced x-terrestials from Planet X supposedly came here to mine gold, so they could not do it any better.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:02 PM   #34
THE eXchanger
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

gold / silver & copper have value
as, if you take them internally -- they turn on brain synapses
which are like contacts, that open up your third eye / and, open the door
to the 4th eye

anyway...
change a diaper - no

plan an invasion - yes, i once had to visit revenue canada in person LOL
and, needed a game plan

butcher a hog - no, i don't like killing things - however, i know how to harvest things, and, when you pull a plant from the ground, in essence
you are killing it

conn a ship - i can handle a 72 foot sail boat at sea - does that count ?
(AND, i am good in a canoe or kayak) thankfully, i once went overboard
in november, and, treaded water for 1 hr 12 minutes

design a building - yes, helped my dad to do that when we built a cottage/house

write a sonnet - i can write

balance accounts - yes

build a wall - yes - & i have put up 3 roof trusses alone

set a bone - yes

comfort the dying - yes

take orders - yes, but NOT i don't think i am army material

give orders - yes, but only when all people are part of a team, and, everyone of them, is just as important, as the next one

cooperate - yes

act alone - yes

solve equations - yes, difficult ones, my dad made sure we knew math
analyze a new problem - yes

pitch manure - yes

program a computer - yup, in the old days - our school had a computer the size of a room /a gift from ibm,
and, same with, at one of my jobs - we had to write programs for
a similiar type of computer, albeit, i am NOT a computer programmer,
i do have some experience at that

cook a tasty meal - yes

fight efficiently - yes, if it comes to that

die gallantly - yes & i have already commanded/and, demanded
where i go, and, what i will do, should i drop my physical body
unexpectedly -- i think that, keeps you walking safely

on top of that

i think you need to caring, kind and thoughtful

and, anything shared, is never halved, but doubled in value

and, i think, also, you need to learn, the power to still the mind
so, you can listen to higher guidance

and, i think, also, you give more than you take, in any particular exchange

sometimes, you need to be in moments, that might be considered
to be, beneath you,
in order, to bring, added value to the moment, that is occurirng
& in doing so, you teach to learn, you learn to teach

it is an interesting world all of us, are in right now

the value of any particular thing, can change in an instant

whatever it is, that you consider to be your eXchange of this day,
it could be that

in tibet -- believe it or NOT some people utilse yak turds to exchange with

so, as long as your YAK is eating / it is eliminating something of value

Last edited by THE eXchanger; 02-24-2009 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:28 AM   #35
eraser2012
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TtC View Post
eraser2012:

I agree totally with your first paragraph, but I was making a point by using such an obscure example.

Your second paragraph on the other hand is only so solid. Yes, the US government confiscated gold and they royally screwed over the American public in the process because they were paying out paper money below value in order to pay off US debt, or at least that's what the history books say. BUT the point I am trying to make that it seems no one is taking notice of is if they really want to take your gold they will and will do so by force. I doubt this would happen, but it is a possibility.

I would also like to note that money that is not gold or silver is illegal in the USA and only congress has the right to print currency, not the fed.

The last thing I would like to say is why do you need a means of exchange at all? If the level of consciousness reaches a higher level why cannot all things be free? In the current situation, this is not possible, but it seams, as we have seen, people need their money.

And Keynesian economics as well as Austrian economics do not work as we can see by reading the daily paper.

TtC: Do me the favor of reading the post here: http://www.augustreview.com/issues/g...?_20081209107/ I think this overview is SPOT on in terms of how gold is the cornerstone of our financial collapse. I highly recommend this reading to everybody interested in this subject.

As far as your comment about consciousness reaching a higher level making "money" unnecessary, YES, I could not agree more with you. I couldn't give a damn about money, honestly, and look forward to the day when all sentient beings rise above such needs. I only make the argument because there are many people truly in denial of such possibilities who are on the verge of becoming victims of the elite's plan to destroy their financial lives and drive them ever further into the reality trap which enslaves us all. Those unaware that they are already slaves need some solid advice on how to protect themselves to allow them to continue their spiritual journeys without being side tracked into the coming plans. Is money the answer? Absolutely not, but this time in our history is so important that I would rather see people properly prepared to resist the atrocities that are surely planned. I hope that make sense.

Last edited by eraser2012; 02-25-2009 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:32 AM   #36
Humble Janitor
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

I just wish we lived in a world where you could do anything you want and be anything that you wanted to be without having to fork over a fortune for it. I want to brew beer but the cost of schooling for it is out of my range and it makes me mad to think that I'm being limited by a bunch of paper.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:38 AM   #37
dayzero
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

If you listen to Cliff High, George Green, St Clair, Henry Deacon, hell, just about anyone, including me [!] they'll tell you that time is short for getting the metals in.
No, you can't eat them [well, actually you can drink colloidal gold and silver], but as the ineffable Cliff says;

"if you can make Pie, then you can trade.
If you can't make Pie and you have metals, you can buy Pie."


I wish I had a massive farm though!
Thing is, there's gonna be plenty of empty farms and other buildings soon-ish, so I guess I'll wait for one of them.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:40 AM   #38
dayzero
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

PS
I wanna brew beer too, and I reckon you could get quite a lot of Pie for Beer...
Well, you could off people like me who love beer almost as much as Pie.
I'm watching a load of brewing stuff on eBay right now....

so...... get the demijohns in!
Stock up on yeast!
You'll be a new Paradigm Business Success Story!

And just think what the new Business Angels might be like! lol.....
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:29 PM   #39
Humble Janitor
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dayzero View Post
PS
I wanna brew beer too, and I reckon you could get quite a lot of Pie for Beer...
Well, you could off people like me who love beer almost as much as Pie.
I'm watching a load of brewing stuff on eBay right now....

so...... get the demijohns in!
Stock up on yeast!
You'll be a new Paradigm Business Success Story!

And just think what the new Business Angels might be like! lol.....
I actually know how to brew already. I am just lacking in time to hone my skills and improve upon what I already know.

As for stocking up on yeast, you can ferment beer with wild yeast. The only downside is that the beer will be sour due to the strain of brett (short for brettanomyces) yeast that ferments the beer. This is why many "farmhouse ales" smell like a barn. Still quite good.

I guess my destiny is to grab whatever the hell I can find and start over. I have no desire to prepare to the gills like everyone else because what if my "stash" of survival stuff was destroyed? I'd have to start over anyway. When the time comes, I will be prepared in a different way.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

The cash4gold is a form of pawn shop w/the convenience of not leaving your home. As we all know, convenience costs more.

That said, to me, investing in metals is merely an effort to preserve some of your monetary wealth. But just as important, if not more, is investing in tangibles, tools & other hardware for gardening, building, clean water, animal husbandry, etc. which I'm doing.

It just makes sense that while I'm living in an environment away from any large city, to use the land for food production, stocking the pond, creating backup energy and such.

And to the yes/no list of skills... mine are the same as yours Ttc except for the last one, dieing < I'm not so sure I will do that well.

Another item to add to the list: Are you a good neighbor? Can you be trusted w/ & cows? I thank Norval for that one. My answer to this is a big Yes as well.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

er... a word got lost in the last post...
It's can you be trusted with children and cows?
lol
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:09 PM   #42
orthodoxymoron
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

Diversify your doomsday portfolio...but first get out of debt. The banksters got us into debt...and debt got us into trouble. Hoard rational thought. We have nothing to fear but the fearmongers. God, Save us from our Saviors. There is obviously going to be trouble in all of our futures...even without Complete Economic Collapse, Suspension of the Constitution, Martial Law, Civil War II, World War III, Reich IV, One Nation Under Satan, Old World Disorder Alien Theocracy, Earth Changes, etc, etc, ad infinitum ad nauseum. Cultivate Positive Response Ability. Turn your Scars into Stars(I got that one from Dr. Robert H. Schuller). It's probably going to get worse before it gets better...but it will get better.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:09 PM   #43
Surial
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Wink Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

I found this news article on gold. I wanted to share it with you:

Quote:
By Richard Evans
Last Updated: 12:18PM GMT 25 Feb 2009

A gold investment that private investors can buy on the stock market has gained in value by more than 120pc in four months.

The Russell Global Gold fund, an "exchange traded fund" or ETF that tracks the performance of gold miners, has produced a total gain of 121pc since October 27 last year.

Meanwhile, a similar investment that tracks the gold price has risen by 33pc since November 21 and by 65pc since this time last year. The gold price broke through the psychologically important $1,000 an ounce level last week.

The Russell Global Gold fund, which tracks the performance of the world's largest gold miners, is the strongest performing equity ETF among those provided by ETF Securities.

"The fund continues to benefit from investors' positive view on the gold price and the leverage to the gold price gold equities provide," said ETF Securities. "Despite recent price increases, gold equities are still trading at a substantial discount to their historical levels relative to the gold price."

Investors can buy ETFs from stockbrokers in exactly the same way as buying a normal share. The stockbroker will charge its usual fee, while the company that manages the ETF will deduct its charges, which may typically be about 0.5pc, from the income produced by the fund.

ETF Securities said its S-Net Global Agri Business and Russell Global Coal fund ETFs had also performed strongly, rising by 29pc and 33pc respectively over the past three months.
This is another clue or insight on the gold situation.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

GREAT stuff here.

in my humble opinion, the cash for gold thing is another way to squeeze the average american out of any real wealth that they may have so when the fiat currency becomes worthless, we will accept anything they give us to substitute for the dollar. our savings and pensions will become worhless overnite. there will be rioting in the streets which is why there is an army brigade assigned to homeland security and now learning the high tech ways of subduing unruly citizens without killing them. the politicians were all told about the underground cities that are available for them and their families if things get real bad. if you don't believe me then research the secret session congress had last march. only the 6th such secret session in the history of our nation.

Namaste'
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:00 PM   #45
Galaxy
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Default Re: cash4gold liquidation - another greedy strategy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBF4YegCAu4
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:36 PM   #46
Surial
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Thanks for the video link. I am not surprised at all about them hoarding gold in Fort Knox. Of course they are going to store all the gold they can get their hands on. Especially with the economic plan being executed.

video

It is all part of their strategy. When or if there is a global economic collapse, they will have more gold.

Last edited by Surial; 02-28-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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