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Old 12-10-2008, 11:57 PM   #1
peaceandlove
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Talking GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

GOP senators voice opposition to auto bailout

Republicans revolt as House begins procedural votes on the loan package
updated 16 minutes ago


WASHINGTON - Emergency aid for the nation's imperiled auto industry was thrown into jeopardy Wednesday, opposed by Republicans who were revolting against a hard-fought deal between Democrats and the Bush White House to speed $14 billion to ailing carmakers.

The House was on track to vote on the bailout Wednesday night, and Democrats held out hope that it could be enacted by week's end. But a growing number of GOP senators declared they would not go along.

Article continues here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28108346/
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2008, AND THEREAFTER

Bailouts and Bankruptcy

Let's not allow Congress and members of the bailout parade panic us into allowing them to do things, as was done in the 1930s, that would convert a mild economic downturn into a true calamity. Right now the Big Three auto companies, and their unions, are asking Congress for a $25 billion bailout to avoid bankruptcy. Let's think about that a bit.

What happens when a company goes bankrupt? One thing that does not happen is their productive assets go poof and disappear into thin air. In other words, if GM goes bankrupt, the assembly lines, robots, buildings and other tools don't evaporate. What bankruptcy means is the title to those assets change. People who think they can manage those assets better purchase them.

Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, where the control of its business operations are subject to the oversight and jurisdiction of the court, gives companies a chance to reorganize. The court can permit complete or partial relief from the company's debts and its labor union contracts.

A large part of the problem is the Big Three's cozy relationship with the United Auto Workers union (UAW). GM has a $73 hourly wage cost including benefits and overtime. Toyota has five major assembly plants in the U.S. Its hourly wage cost plus benefits is $48. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out which company will be at a competitive disadvantage. Then there's the "jobs bank" feature of the UAW contract where workers who are laid off workers get 95 percent of their base pay and all their benefits. Right now there's a two-year limit but in the past workers could stay in the "jobs bank" forever unless they turned down two job offers within 50 miles of their factory. At one time job bank membership exceeded 7,000 "workers." GM, Ford and Chrysler face other problems that range from poor corporate management and marketing, not to mention costly government regulations.

Remaining article here: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...Bankruptcy.htm

Copy of the bill here: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...ilout_bill.pdf

Last edited by peaceandlove; 12-11-2008 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:07 AM   #3
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Bailout Update
Source: http://www.campaignforliberty.com

Posted by Matt Hawes on 12/10/08

It looks like a vote on the bailout could be taken in the House between 7 and 8 eastern tonight. However, it appears to be encountering problems in the Senate.

Keep calling and writing (suggested letters are here). It's very possible the bill could be rejected in the House if there is widespread uncertainty about its future in the Senate. Legislators who would otherwise cave to the pressure to vote for the bill may be encouraged to stick to their guns and vote against the bailout.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:07 AM   #4
giovonni
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Question Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Greeting's peaceandlove,
It seems really ill advised, short sighted, and foolish, to bail these companies out? Any lender, would require a restucturing plan? If they need a loan to carry them till-the process is completed> fine, but this is just another step towards nationalization of our economy> till debt do us part? gio
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:43 AM   #5
peaceandlove
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout



Source: http://www.campaignforliberty.com

Auto Bailout Sinks in Senate

Posted by Andrew Ward on 12/11/08
Last updated 12/11/08

The reason? The United Auto Workers (U.A.W) refused to agree to the Republican Senators' bailout plan that included cuts in union wages, AP reports.

Republican Sen. George V. Voinovich of Ohio, a strong bailout supporter, said the UAW was willing to make the cuts -- but not until 2011.

Reid was working to set a swift test vote on the measure Thursday night, but it was just a formality. The bill was virtually certain to fail to reach the 60-vote threshold it would need to clear to advance.

Reid called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country," adding "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight."

While unions with federal backing aren't exactly promoters of a freer market, it's important to keep in mind that the main cause of the global economic bust is the Federal Reserve.

Please continue to urge your elected officials (especially those who purport to be defenders of free markets) to oppose future bailouts and czar-creating schemes.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:38 AM   #6
MMe M
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

What is wrong with you people?

AIG has a big flippin celebration in another country flying its people there on our dime to celebrate their government landfall but the big three

needing help is a no go? You can kiss it all goodbye if the auto makers leave. The government wants to break the unions because they want

an impoverished illiterate people. They are much easier to control if tearingly poor and uneducated. A thriving middle class has access to

some leisure time, allowing for a pursuit of a greater knowledge, money for their childrens further education, access to quality food, medical

care, and they spend spend spend. This is why we enjoyed the years we did have that were prosperous. A thriving middle class drives the

economy and allows for big government. Something they should "get" but are too stupid currently to realize in congress. http://www.rense.com/general84/if.htm


Which of you here is independantly wealthy? How many here can say they arent affected by a unions wages and benefits package

and the effects on their current level of income and standard of living? Get over yourselves. We will all loose if we send the big three to

China. Unions are the only fair shake a working man or woman ever had. DO NOT say they are no longer needed. China workers making goods

for American companies are virtual slaves. Three cents per garment at the Nike factory. Do not think any of you are safe just because you

have a degree. Your standard of living is affected each and every day by what blue collar workers in factories or independant companies in

unions pay their empolyees. It is a simple irrefutable fact. A factory worker in Michigan scarcely earns a living wage. The cost of living is

astonomical there and that 69.00 dollar per hour quote is not the hourly wage on a check, thats everything. Insurance, retirees benifits,

workers comp, unemployment, etc. They make much less than most and its not an easy job to work on a line. Thats a gross

understatement.



Before unions in this country, women and children were locked in factories and died when they caught fire. The owners were at home with

the keys. 12, 14, and 16 hour days were the norm, seven days a week with unsafe working conditions to boot. DO NOT assume we are more

civilized or understanding than any previous time in history. All you hav to d is watch The Corporation to see how intrinsically

evil most are. How heartless. Unions are needed still. Industry is needed still.


And just what part of resembling automakers in a communist country is ok for congress to impose on American companies asking, no...

begging for help? This is perhaps the sadest statement of all by the ones supposedly representing the home of the free and the brave. The

American representatives have just stated on the record in order to obtain funding, we must operate as a manufacturer in a communist

country does. May god have mercy on their corrupt souls. I have none.


We will all perish without the automakers. Make no mistake.

Last edited by MMe M; 12-12-2008 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:24 AM   #7
Steve_A
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Hi peaceandlove,

Just to show the other side of the coin in emerging markets.

Toyota as just agree to set up a production line in the Port of Suape, on the Pernambucanan coast here in Brazil.

Also this year Korean automakers have set up shop in the southeast.

Emerging markets seems to be the way to go, especially Brazil as there's no political unrest, like there is in India, Pakistan and (recently) China.

So flexible production line employees that aren't afraid to travel, put your bermudas on and hightail it down.

Best regards,

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaceandlove View Post
Bailout Update
Source: http://www.campaignforliberty.com

Posted by Matt Hawes on 12/10/08

It looks like a vote on the bailout could be taken in the House between 7 and 8 eastern tonight. However, it appears to be encountering problems in the Senate.

Keep calling and writing (suggested letters are here). It's very possible the bill could be rejected in the House if there is widespread uncertainty about its future in the Senate. Legislators who would otherwise cave to the pressure to vote for the bill may be encouraged to stick to their guns and vote against the bailout.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:24 PM   #8
MMe M
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post
Hi peaceandlove,

Just to show the other side of the coin in emerging markets.

Toyota as just agree to set up a production line in the Port of Suape, on the Pernambucanan coast here in Brazil.

Also this year Korean automakers have set up shop in the southeast.

Emerging markets seems to be the way to go, especially Brazil as there's no political unrest, like there is in India, Pakistan and (recently) China.

So flexible production line employees that aren't afraid to travel, put your bermudas on and hightail it down.

Best regards,

Steve

Thats interesting information. We were told Toyota was building a factory near their new proving grounds in Michigan but maybe thats not the case now.

Brazil looks like lovely place but I would be so homesick and thats not do-able commute!
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:09 PM   #9
Steve_A
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Hi Everyone,

Looks like the bailout package for the big three has been ruled out by the senate.

That should put the cat amongst the pigeons a little.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country," adding: "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight."

Let's see if he's right.

Best regards,

Steve

Last edited by Steve_A; 12-12-2008 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:47 PM   #10
historycircus
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

This happened last time too.

Now the closed door bullying starts.

It is all a pageant so some who face reelection soon can save a little face.

The big three will have their money in a week.

Keep in mind, they're not really "asking" for anything. But here is the kicker: after they get their money, the U.S. auto industry will collapse ANYWAY - do you really think these folks want to preserve the middle class?

PS. I apologize if my avatar has left any of you emotionally damaged.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:14 PM   #11
efields
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Thumbs up Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaceandlove View Post
GOP senators voice opposition to auto bailout

Republicans revolt as House begins procedural votes on the loan package
updated 16 minutes ago


WASHINGTON - Emergency aid for the nation's imperiled auto industry was thrown into jeopardy Wednesday, opposed by Republicans who were revolting against a hard-fought deal between Democrats and the Bush White House to speed $14 billion to ailing carmakers.

The House was on track to vote on the bailout Wednesday night, and Democrats held out hope that it could be enacted by week's end. But a growing number of GOP senators declared they would not go along.

Article continues here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28108346/
Well Thank God

The Republicans are doing the first sensible thing in 8 years!!
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
This happened last time too.

Now the closed door bullying starts.

It is all a pageant so some who face reelection soon can save a little face.

The big three will have their money in a week.

Keep in mind, they're not really "asking" for anything. But here is the kicker: after they get their money, the U.S. auto industry will collapse ANYWAY - do you really think these folks want to preserve the middle class?

PS. I apologize if my avatar has left any of you emotionally damaged.
Yep you got it



Toyota
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:17 PM   #13
peaceandlove
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Source: http://www.campaignforliberty.com

Update: 12/12/08 Treasury Vows to Prevent Auto Makers From Failing

The Treasury threw a lifeline to the beleaguered US car industry, saying it is ready to prevent the failure of auto makers until Congress reconvenes next month.

"Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry," Treasury spokeswoman Brookly McLaughlin said.

Thanks to member r3V0Lution77 for the news link:

Bush Officials Vow to Save Auto Makers From Collapse

Full Article Here: http://www.cnbc.com/id/28193063

Excerpt:

Quote:
CNBC.com With Wires | 12 Dec 2008 | 11:03 AM ET
The Bush administration, worried about a further blow to the US economy, said it was ready to step in and prevent the auto industry from collapsing after the Senate refused to pass a rescue bill late Thursday night.

"The current weakened state of the economy is such that it could not withstand a body blow like a disorderly bankruptcy in the auto industry," White House press secretary Dana Perino said.

The Treasury also said it is ready to help.

"Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry," Treasury spokeswoman Brookly McLaughlin said.

The most obvious source of help was the $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund, also known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

President Bush had originally refused to use the bailout fund to help the auto makers, insisting that aid come from Congress. But the White House said it must reconsider after the Senate failed to agree on a $14 billion rescue plan.

"Congress spoke last night. They don't have the votes to do anything," Perino told reporters on Air Force One as Bush traveled to a commencement speech in Texas. "They didn't get it over goal line and so we have to consider what other options we would take."

She declined to say when a decision would be made. Full Article Here: http://www.cnbc.com/id/28193063
SEE RON PAUL'S CAR CZAR SPEECHES IN THE HOUSE ON THIS THREAD, POST #5: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8758

Or here:
12/11/2008 Congressman Ron Paul's Strong Three Minutes Today regarding Federal Loans for U.S. Auto Companies

First Speech: Ron Paul "How Much is This Really Costing!"

"It's been a gross distraction of the great harm we've done in the past 6 months!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc1fD...orliberty.com/


Second Speech: 2nd Rep. Ron Paul Bailout Speech - Federal Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6QJu...d=event_564887
__________________

Last edited by peaceandlove; 12-13-2008 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:26 PM   #14
Steve_A
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Hi Everone,

Just a quick follow on to my last post. It seems that Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. was wrong when he said that Wall Street today is "not going to be a pleasant sight."

I can understand his thinking as along with the refusal by Congress to bailout the big three, consumer sales dropped for the fifth straight month and Former Nasdaq chairman Bernard L. Madoff has been arrested for fraud (to the tune of $50 billion) it would be enough to make the DOW tumble somewhat.

On Yahoo! I see that the DOW is down a mere 80 (plunge) points. I wonder why? I think it's because (plunge) George W. and Paulson have suggested that the Fed (plunge) will send the $15b to the car makers (where does the Fed get all this money from?).

Why does the present president want to bail out the big three and Congress doesn't? It wouldn't be because he wants to leave office with everthing intact and deepen the hole for the next president to try and dig himself out, would it?

Enjoy Christmas. Watch out January, here we come.

Best regards,

Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post
Hi Everyone,

Looks like the bailout package for the big three has been ruled out by the senate.

That should put the cat amongst the pigeons a little.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country," adding: "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight."

Let's see if he's right.

Best regards,

Steve

Last edited by Steve_A; 12-12-2008 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

What have auto makers done "creatively" to combat the Japanese auto-industry? Foreign auto-industry in general... NOTHING! Saving these auto-makers would be a waste of our TAX dollars!

3 million people will lose jobs, but who's to blame for that? Of coarse its the auto-makers, because they have failed miserably to be "competitive" in a competitive world!

Don't blame congress for not passing the bill, because that would show your ignorance, in this situation.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #16
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

White House and Treasury to Once Again Ignore Congress

Source: http://www.campaignforliberty.com

Posted by Matt Hawes on 12/12/08
Last updated 12/12/08

Coming on the heels of the auto bailout's defeat in the Senate, the White House and the Treasury are announcing their intentions to take money from TARP and act anyway. If it hasn't been apparent to mainstream conservative voters that legislative check and balances mean nothing to this administration, it should be clear to everyone now.

The UAW announced this morning that they want the Treasury or the Fed to act "for the good of the country," yet they refuse to renegotiate their contracts in an attempt to have their cake and eat it too. Their "woe is me" defense in their press conference just doesn't cut it anymore.

GM and Chrysler refuse to consider the bankruptcy option because they are afraid that consumers won't buy cars from bankrupt companies. Do they really expect more people to buy cars just because the car companies have been given a loan to prop up the unions and continue their unsound business practices?

Ironically, more customers may stay away out of anger over watching the heads of these companies literally begging at the federal trough for your money.

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Old 12-12-2008, 08:46 PM   #17
MMe M
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz View Post
What have auto makers done "creatively" to combat the Japanese auto-industry? Foreign auto-industry in general... NOTHING! Saving these auto-makers would be a waste of our TAX dollars!

3 million people will lose jobs, but who's to blame for that? Of coarse its the auto-makers, because they have failed miserably to be "competitive" in a competitive world!

Don't blame congress for not passing the bill, because that would show your ignorance, in this situation.

The automakers have done more than you know. Blame at this juncture, if we

must place it where it should lie has to be with NAFTA, CAFTA and congress

most assuredly must share responsibility. Every other country has import

tarrifs. Every other country knows enough to care for their own

manufacturers that actually produce vital goods.



What do you drive? How has lifting import tarrifs changed what Americans

buy and drive? What do you really know about what they have or havent

done? Nothing. Thats what. You trust the media to report what the three are

doing in their r and d departments but not about anything else?


Good heavens people?! These companies actually manufacture a product.

These companies employ millions, and so do their suppliers. It is incredibly

hard for factories and industry to stay in this country and still make a profit

with all the regulations, taxes, EPA stipulations and on and on but they have

kept many here, thank god. How many of you even look to see where

products are manufactured before you put your money down? You talk talk

talk about people needing to wake up but how many are willing to when

the sentiments of individuals on this site have shown disdain, contempt and

worse about the automakers here today? How many of you had or have a

relative that works for one of the three or one of their suppliers? Dealerships,

mechanics, and the like? Are any of you aware of GM's 30 miles/30 minutes

supplier requirement? I dont know if they still have this in place but they did

and the result was a boom in the suppliers building local factories which

employed masses of people. It was the lowest unemployment our state ever

had.



The 700 billion is already allocated for this purpose. It is sheer madness to

say its great for AIG, who makes...nothing, but not for companies employing

millions of people nationwide. We werent using our constitution when

congress decided to become a banking institution, something that clearly

violates the consitution. Bush has thrown out most other aspects of it with

executive orders. Why are all of you acting so viscious and tyranical about

the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ now? Because congress treated them so

ungraciously that you all must too? And people put themselves above dogs

when in reality they are jast as ready to follow a pack leader to decide how

they will react about a situation. Pack mentality.



This may be Bush's only act of grace while in office.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:59 PM   #18
-Axiom-
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMe M View Post
The automakers have done more than you know. Blame at this juncture, if we

must place it where it should lie has to be with NAFTA, CAFTA and congress

most assuredly must share responsibility. Every other country has import

tarrifs. Every other country knows enough to care for their own

manufacturers that actually produce vital goods.



What do you drive? How has lifting import tarrifs changed what Americans

buy and drive? What do you really know about what they have or havent

done? Nothing. Thats what. You trust the media to report what the three are

doing in their r and d departments but not about anything else?


Good heavens people?! These companies actually manufacture a product.

These companies employ millions, and so do their suppliers. It is incredibly

hard for factories and industry to stay in this country and still make a profit

with all the regulations, taxes, EPA stipulations and on and on but they have

kept many here, thank god. How many of you even look to see where

products are manufactured before you put your money down? You talk talk

talk about people needing to wake up but how many are willing to when

the sentiments of individuals on this site have shown disdain, contempt and

worse about the automakers here today? How many of you had or have a

relative that works for one of the three or one of their suppliers? Dealerships,

mechanics, and the like? Are any of you aware of GM's 30 miles/30 minutes

supplier requirement? I dont know if they still have this in place but they did

and the result was a boom in the suppliers building local factories which

employed masses of people. It was the lowest unemployment our state ever

had.



The 700 billion is already allocated for this purpose. It is sheer madness to

say its great for AIG, who makes...nothing, but not for companies employing

millions of people nationwide. We werent using our constitution when

congress decided to become a banking institution, something that clearly

violates the consitution. Bush has thrown out most other aspects of it with

executive orders. Why are all of you acting so viscious and tyranical about

the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ now? Because congress treated them so

ungraciously that you all must too? And people put themselves above dogs

when in reality they are jast as ready to follow a pack leader to decide how

they will react about a situation. Pack mentality.



This may be Bush's only act of grace while in office.
This post if full of win.

The banks never should have gotten anything, they created the mess but yet they get Congress falling all over themselves throwing obcene amounts of money at them.
More money (U.S. dollars) than exists in cirulation in the entire world...
More money than there is gold in Ft Knox...
Literally.

Lets not forget that the bank bailout is about the gov buying all the worthless garbage the banks have acrued over the years.
We will never see any of this money come back.

The big 3 are asking for a loan to get through the hard times that the banks have created.
They have to beg and plead and grovel like they are some sort of criminals...
The bankers ARE the criminals...
Congress never entertained the idea of getting rid of the bank ceo's.
Why is this?

As stated above the automakers produce real goods, they don't just conjure money into existance.
And they can't even get a freaking LOAN for a mere fraction of what is being shoveled into the banks...
There are far too many jobs at stake here, we have been shipping jobs across our borders for a very long time now.

This whole bailout fiasco should have never started in the first place.
This has to go through as much as I dislike it, it just has to.

Let's not forget that during WWII it was our auto factories that provided the equipment that won the war.
We NEED the infrastructure.

If some of the banks were allowed to go insolvent there are more banks to pick up the slack, we could have taken that hit.
Banks don't create anything, they don't need advanced factories that take years to design and build.
All they need is some servers and any old building to house them.

People's ignorance and shortsightedness never fails to amaze me.

By the way, Hi everybody.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:17 PM   #19
pyrangello
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Yes I'm from Michigan too, grew up as a kid right in automation alley where we had toolmakers of the old school, the gentle man who taught me my skills was 70 years old at that time. I know around the country and around the world there are many that say let the auto companies self correct itself. I agree to some respect with that notion.

The proplem is the correct time and place for all this to happen. My cousin who just lost his V.P. job selling parts told me that in 1980 the Big 3 U.S. automakers maintained 85% of the U.S. market, In 2000 it was 65% and the bottom was expected at 45% in 2010. So this was all expected and was no suprize, Gm , Ford and Chysler were all positioning themselfs for this.

The trump card came in thru multiple channels, who would have ever thought gas would go to 4 times the amount in a few short years, and now the credit problem compunded by the lack of sales and consumer confidence and the run up of raw materials all at the same time. It is a perfect storm for hard working people, I personally don't agree with any bailout and the money being asked for, but this is a loan,not a bailout!

Lets just all take a quick look back only a few weeks ago at all of the outrage at the BAILOUT that was truly given to a company that incurred it's own problems by self decisions. AIG , I have no affiliation to AIG, but for this company to recieve over 120 billion dollars with an asset value of 5 billion dollars ............ Am I missing something! Oh and here's the better part, after the treasury gave them the money, AIG had a convention in california that cost $420,000 which included behind door #1 $1000.00 hotel rooms, door#2 $21,000 in spa treatments , and door#3 $6000.00 in golf. Oh and it gets better for the bonus round, there 4 top exectutives took an all paid vacation to england at a grand total of $82,000.00 limos, wines, and bird hunting, they didn't even say hi to the queen. And the kicker to the whole pack of sucklings is the grand daddy CEO of them all who gets paid 47 million dollars to say yes to all of this, AND WE PAID FOR IT. Now where's all that outrage ,I'd still like to know why the treasury didn't just give everyone their money back instead of giving it to the same management that ran this into the ground.

Now today some other guy on wall street is accused of swindling 50 billion. Thats one person. None of this makes any sense anymore. I heard on the detroit radio station this morning that the detroit auto dealers gave in the last 5 years 77 million dollars to a charity here locally. Remember when 9/11 happened and how many millions of dollars that U.S. automakers donated to the fund and immediately went to 0% financing to help out and get us restarted. There not asking for much compared to the truly beyond greedy of the bunch, things will get corrected in the auto industry just not during the perfect storm as theres tons of hard working blue collar people who truly are the backbone of america,s middle class. Thanks for reading.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:39 AM   #20
BROOK
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Axion I agree with you
Read this from another post I made I believe it says it all about what the consumer wants, and I agree, I was against the bail out, but there is too much at stake here

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/t...20in%20America
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Old 12-13-2008, 04:15 AM   #21
BROOK
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

I'm sorry, but I have to ask all the American forum users here... when your driving on the freeways or country roads, and all you see are BIG suv's and trucks....Do you think someone held a gun to their heads and said "buy it or die"

The demand for BIG vehicles in this country was so great in the last ten yeas we had a hard time with supply. This has been the only year that sales have suffered for Ford or Chevy, or Dodge for that matter where the BIG vehicle was suffering sales.. But let me tell you Toyota is also suffering and so is Honda.

We are all suffering the economy crisis. I work for the big three and am proud to say so. I will never drive anything but American made.
When you say We never listened to the consumer, well tell me why Chevy was the number one selling make in the country...because the consumer had a gun to their head.... Get serious. The problem does not lie with the company, it lies with the Wall Street Thieves.
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:39 AM   #22
BROOK
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

Liquidswordz

Creative.... how about the new 09 Ford Fusion hybrid at 39 mpg that beats the
Camry hybrid..or the 33mpg Malibu that beats the Accord

are you aware that GM outsold Toyota by 1.2 million in the us or that GM was the largest selling maker worldwide beating Toyota by 3000 vehicles
That Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 or Nissan by 1.2 million...Too many here seem to still be listening to Big media with their great agenda to dissolve this country and create a NEW WORLD ORDER

The Toyota store across the street from my store just laid off 85 people from the store in all departments... The Honda store down the street is off over half their sales just like our Chevy and Ford store here... And all the vendors who support our store are suffering... This is by no means just about the big three.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:06 AM   #23
sleepingnomore
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

This opposition isn't about concern for taxpayer dollars. Dig a little deeper, the Republicans are punishing Detroit for backing Obama, period. An interesting tidbit, Republican party members were sent an "Action Alert" to break the unions, it's always what this opposition has been about.

I don't agree with the way these automakers run the companies, but face it the workers will take the fall as usual. They had no problem backing the banking industry. Make no mistake, someone will bail out Detroit and then all the profits will go out of country and jobs will still be cut.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:21 PM   #24
BROOK
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Default Re: GOP Senators Voice Opposition To Auto Bailout

I appreciate that. The unions have always been democrat run. So why would Bush, a Republican, be planning to override congress and give the assistance?
It's a mystery to me, I just know I have lost over half my income, and the possibility of not being able to pay my overinflated home mortgage is all to close to happening. Keep in mind The other auto makers are down as well. They may stay a float for a while longer, but every one is being affected. This is an economic collapse and all the bail out money will only prolong what is going to happen anyway.

The unions drastically affect the COST of making vehicles, so the other European manufactures have more profit and may sustain longer, but make no mistake their having their share of problems too. Hence of course the big three will have to make more concessions with regards to unions, and the cost of doing business. I don't belong to a union in my line of work, but believe this, the effect is everywhere.
The cost to the taxpayer will be health care, unemployment from the pension funds demise, and job cut backs

Over 20 small privately owned dealers in California alone have closed their doors. They could not survive the last year. This all happened before September and the major announcement of economy collapse. This has been coming for some time now. It's just coming to light now...to the mainstream public. This is just a show for the ptb to eventually announce the need for a nwo, and restructure of all corporate business, etc etc etc

Lets all remember...the paper they write these loans on the MONEY is worthless, and when the real cirses hits, the bailout will mean NOTHING... This is the real issue

Last edited by BROOK; 12-13-2008 at 04:14 PM.
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