The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay

[giovonni]

Originally Posted by historycircus

I have just read the post announcing Avalon's change to subscription, and like many here I will no longer be able to post when that change goes into effect. I understand the decision, and thank the Avalon PTB for the brief, yet worthwhile opportunity to engage others on the important issues that concern us all.

I started this thread to say goodbye to some of the good people here - friends I hope I see eventually on the other side - and for others who cannot subscribe to post their own fare-the-wells.

It has been fun, and you all be good.

Cheers

My friend,
Please wait and see what options might be offered, in making it possible for you and others to remain. You have been very wise and insightful in your post. Too loss individuals (as yourself) would be truly sad. I hope this thread, will incite you to the importance of us staying together, as long as possible! I apologize and extend my belated but sincere friendship, My best gio

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

This might sound kind of, well, I guess it doesn't matter how it sounds, but don't we have any wealthy members here? Can't somebody just throw in a large donation to help out those less fortunate! I know I would if I could, and if times were different, as in any other time but now, I'd throw in a few grand just to help and get that"feel good" feeling of knowing I helped out several thousand people! It doesn't matter if you agree with the subscription or not, the time to help is NOW so nobody has to leave.

Hi, Folks:

Don't jump the gun here. We've been listening.

We're making options available for people to pay at various levels. The minimum subscription is $1 a month, - which is $12 per year, or the price of two hamburgers.

We're stating clearly that we would would prefer a payment of $5 (or more) per month, but this will be optional.

We will ALSO be adding an option for those members who are subscribing to sponsor (at $1 per month) any members they nominate who cannot afford it.

All the information will continue to be available on a read-only basis for those who prefer not to subscribe. (Two-thirds of the people who visit regularly to read the information on this forum are not members anyway.)

We've been using PayPal for two and a half years, and have never had one single security problem or any other difficulty. It does work very well. If it didn't, we would not use it.

The new structure will be in place fairly soon, but we don't yet know exactly when. We'll announce it as soon as we've implemented and tested the system so that we know it works.

What will happen is that on a certain day (probably sometime next week) members will come to log in and be directed to a new page where they have the option to register again and choose whether, how much, and how they want to pay - and if they want to nominate another person as well.

After a lot of thought (and reading everyone's comments and suggestions), this is absolutely the best system we can think of in order to be fair to all, ensure that everyone can benefit if they want to, and allow our work to continue.

We WILL be sorry to see anyone leave. At the cost of two hamburgers per year, we'd like to think that the scheme we've come up with is within the budget of almost everyone. It is of course entirely an individual decision whether or not this presents good value - but we suggest that it does!

Very best to all, Bill

Maybe you could consider selling T-shirts as advertising for the site.

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by sleepingnomore

Maybe you could consider selling T-shirts as advertising for the site.

Yes, we're going to do this too! We never realized quite how easy this was until one of the members (I'm afraid I can't remember who) recommended http://zazzle.com to us.

White and black, with these logos on them:



Very best, Bill

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by SoulSuspect

Well seeing as I wont be paying for the new forum. Which makes sense by the way I do think you should charge for it if you cant afford it, im not a hater. I just wanted to say GoodBye To Avalon its was pretty rad! When exactly does the forum start charging by the way and if I suddenly change my mind and become a paying member will you guys still edit as many posts as you already have or will there be more freedom due to the fact that one is a paying member?

Should you go down this path, you will be able to see the moderating style for yourself.

Lurking will be free as I understand the announcement.

A..

[Swanny]

I don't understand why you don't just put an advert at the top of the page?????
It would make good money and you wont lose the info that people are giving.
This site without the info input will be useless and people will go else where.
Maybe you will have a few people here posting but the majority will leave and move on to another forum which will then become more popular and draw even more people from here.
Please don't make it subscription I've seen forums die before
It's easy to ignore an advert but you can't ignore the lack of people input.
I'm self employed and my future is looking very grey at the moment, nothing booked in after this week so I need every penny I can get and definately can't afford $5 a month.

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Swanny

I'm self employed and my future is looking very grey at the moment, nothing booked in after this week so I need every penny I can get and definately can't afford $5 a month.

Hi, Swanny:

But can you afford $1 a month, which will be the minimum for those on low incomes?

That's $12 a year... or (as I said earlier) the price of two hamburgers. Or one movie ticket... or three Starbucks coffees.

Very best wishes, Bill

[henners]

i personally agree money is needed. to run this site. Why not wait and see just how it works and who will contribute. I like what i see and will be staying. I do not have great expenses (appart from a mortgage), and no big vices so 60 bucks a year sounds OK.

One less coffee a week i can do without.

[SoldierOfTruth808]

All the information will continue to be available on a read-only basis for those who prefer not to subscribe. (Two-thirds of the people who visit regularly to read the information on this forum are not members anyway.)

This is good, at least itll weed out all the nutcases who are making this site into a ***** heap. Unless they are willing to pay to spit nonsense... though I imagine if the agenda is big enough that they would pay to spread it.

I for one will join the lurkers... not that it matters. Im not one who contributes any profound knowledge. I just want to be within informations grasp when its time to act. I dont want to debate, I dont want to pat anyone on the back or have anyone pat me on the back. I already know that people with like minds exsist and thats good enough for me. All I have to do is open my eyes and look around at this point and all the answer will unfold. Besides Camelot is a good enough resource as it is. Playing "whos the mole" on this forum is pointless and tired.

See you... but you wont see me,
Roland K

[Bobcat]

two hamburgers from thousands of sheepeople is alot of hamburgers for you isnt it?

Cya all.

Good luck everyone

Kindest regards

Bobcat

[Dean Plejaren]

Very few forums charge to post stuff. This will upset everything at the forum. Cut communication off with people. All that just for 30,000 extra a year. Doesn't seem worth it just give up the Australian Ark bunker or something.

Sell books or DVDs. T-shirts anything but charge people to communicate on here as communication is the most important thing.

[Harper]

Bill, Kerry & Moderators,

There is a deeper problem with paying that you may not have considered its that people will no longer know what they are buying, if, and I don't believe you can, guarantee that the amount of information and exchange on the forum will remain the same then I think its our first lesson in pulling together and helping others who cannot pay. I will pay for myself and 2 others. I have just lost my job but I can still afford that amount of money once a year. If I find I can't I'm in way bigger trouble and have a lot more problems than being able to post on an important forum :-)

So how will you solve the problem of people knowing what they are now buying, if you introduce this fee and I come on the forum to see one that only 1 person has posted that day what value will I get? Not being an oracle myself I can only offer my ideas but not mathematical genius, or years of scholarship on the bible, or insider information of UFO etc...... Do you follow?

Why don't you try the t-shirts first because not only is it a money maker but think what if I see someone I know or even don't know wearing one, I would go straight up to them and have a chat about what's going on. I would actually know that at the very least, whether we agree or not that we are both seekers and it could have a huge bi-product effect of enabling relationships. I am however not a person who is afraid for my life or anything so annonimity is not an issue, they know who I am or they don't, what will be will be..........

Any thoughts?

PS I will stand by the above mentioned offer for myself and 2 others.

[norman]

Originally Posted by crowmirror

as far as i know someone did offer to pay a whole years worth for everyone
and obviously it was turned down.

Yes I'd noticed it too but I'm not going to get flustered about it. Well not yet anyway.

What I do want to stress is this:

When this forum splits into posters and lurkers it will effectively become a one-way channel. For one thing, local networking will be handicapped. On the 'good' side, with less and narrow banded posters it will become a quicker and easier read here.

I'd appreciate it greatly if the people who 'stay' would adjust their language and methods to compensate for the one sided nature of the Avalon experience. There will be a lot of people who may want to check and clarify things but they won't be able to. Heck, even the BBC has a website with two way com's now!

If I was in B&K's position I would be well freaked out about what I was going to do about money (other than get jobs). I understand their problem. I'm not sure this subscription idea is going to do much to solve it though. If it was a political party we'd probably complain about large donations. It's a tough call.

If I don't 'stay', and it looks like I won't, I'll be looking for you all on other forums. These wacky ID's and avatars that people use make it harder to do that but hopefully we can establish 2 way coms by supplementary means.

We've got a few more days yet so it's probably too soon to be saying goodbye.

[capreycorn]

subscription fees won`t bring lots of money, selling t-shirts also not.
advertising sounds good but...(projectavalon powered by ??? monsanto? might not look good to some); or wouldn`t a merger with some other community do the trick - what is with St. Clair?

[Antaletriangle]

Hello there,I'm just 'subscribing' to this thread-to show my state of play in affairs-i shall have to leave the forum as i am unemployed like a few have already mentioned-i can't afford my own website to try and make some living from my photography as i'm unable to market my work through the net-i suppose my work's not good enough to sell anyway;that's another issue but i am stretched with finances here-i look after my mum at home who's unwell,this is why i spend alot of time on here!!lol.I have been trying to get out and get some more shots but it is difficult in not leaving my mum for too long-so it's ver y hard and now i find i will have to leave the forum,one of my only links with like minders-i realise i haven't posted much good stuff but have contributed from the outset,I'm even doing a wedding this weekend and not charging for this as the couple who are marrying are skint as i am but i look at it as helping them to start off in life and is better for my conscience in the long term-this you cannot put a price on!!
I don't wish to be subsidised or appear to scounge,and in my humble opinion this move to subscription is akin to showing who can and who can't afford to pay for free thinking.i am aware that Bill and Kerry need an income as we all do but i'm really struggling i hate to say but 'tis true-i still give what i an able-i could tell you some situations that i've been in!
Anyhow i don't wish to be put in a position of charity and thankyou for the flexibility but i don't think it right-if i can't be self sufficient then i am forced to leave-i may find somewhere else to call home;i wish to thank everyone for the support and criticism i have received it's all been processed in the development factory of my soul,
Cheers,Wayne,.A.t.
P.S. i forgot to say thankyou Bill and Kerry for starting the site and the forum-you'vebeen a piece in the jigsaw that's brought much enlightenment to us all.

[Skillet]

My wife has been unemployed since March of this year. I'm a straight commissioned sales rep in the light construction industry. I live in San Diego county, which has been hard hit by the housing crunch. Down 33% in the last year, with no new construction. BUT.............

I will be happy to pony up the modest $60. The information this site has provided is very critical to me, as well as my family. I have also made some new like minded friends, Whitecrow, and Rockyshorz, who I know I can count on when the SHTF. I have never paid for access to a web site before, but I will gladly for Project Avalon. Bill and Kerry thank you so much. Keep up the fantastic work!

Skillet

[Kahunamahalo]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Hi, Swanny:

But can you afford $1 a month, which will be the minimum for those on low incomes?

That's $12 a year... or (as I said earlier) the price of two hamburgers. Or one movie ticket... or three Starbucks coffees.

Very best wishes, Bill

Bill,
It's not the cost, it is the principle. This idea is wrong on so many levels. People are also suffering badly at this time from the economy and sometimes a hamburger is hard to come by. Goodbye.

[Ali Quadir]

Guess I'll be splitting guys.

I don't have the method to pay over the internet. I do have the means obviously. What's asked for is not much, I've given larger amounts (per gift) to vagrants. I've also donated to forums in the past. None of them however were subscription models. And it was always cash in hand to help out a friend.

I don't have a credit card or internet money account. I don't consider this forum enough of a benefit to me personally to go through the hassle and potential risks of getting them. I have asked Bill via pm about alternatives over a month ago when the first mention of money problems arose, but I've got no response so far. So I really have no options.

And to be honest, if I had options I'd have objections. People have suggested some very good alternatives and experts have made warnings and offered their advice for free. It's not good if their warnings are ignored. These are professionals for a reason.

I hope it works out for you. And thanks for the fun sofar!

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren

Very few forums charge to post stuff. This will upset everything at the forum. Cut communication off with people. All that just for 30,000 extra a year. Doesn't seem worth it just give up the Australian Ark bunker or something.

Sell books or DVDs. T-shirts anything but charge people to communicate on here as communication is the most important thing.

Dean, see my reply to you in the ASK BILL AND KERRY thread here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showp...6&postcount=53

If it was not for Camelot's work, Avalon would not exist. All of Camelot's work is available for free. You can watch 100+ hours of videos (or listen to the audio, or read the transcripts) and not pay a cent. We agree: communication is the most important thing.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Ali Quadir

Guess I'll be splitting guys.

I don't have the method to pay over the internet. I do have the means obviously. What's asked for is not much, I've given larger amounts (per gift) to vagrants. I've also donated to forums in the past. None of them however were subscription models. And it was always cash in hand to help out a friend.

I don't have a credit card or internet money account. I don't consider this forum enough of a benefit to me personally to go through the hassle and potential risks of getting them. I have asked Bill via pm about alternatives over a month ago when the first mention of money problems arose, but I've got no response so far. So I really have no options.

And to be honest, if I had options I'd have objections. People have suggested some very good alternatives and experts have made warnings and offered their advice for free. It's not good if their warnings are ignored. These are professionals for a reason.

I hope it works out for you. And thanks for the fun sofar!

Hi, Ali:

You'll be able to pay by money order or check if you like, and there'll be a generous period of grace while we wait for the payment to arrive. We won't be heavy about it.

We know some people don't have bank accounts. There's nothing to stop you being a member if you want to be one. You can even sponsor someone else who may not be able to afford it.

Some people posting on this thread, who are genuinely hard up, might appreciate it. If you did that, we would appreciate it too.

If I missed a PM, I do apologize. I 'm not often online for long periods, and e-mail is a better way to communicate as then we're able to pick up e-mails and then read and reply offline. We can't do that with PMs. Do please re-send, and copy to support@projectcamelot.org. Many thanks.

Very best wishes, Bill

[MAP]

*edit never mind about that offer I changed my mind sorry..

[Triaxis]

I was never a big poster here - mainly just posted some positive comments if i felt too much negativity really, even as a member i pretty much just lurked.

My two cents worth.

I understand why Kerry and Bill are doing this and fair enough. But i think they should have levels of membership. Those that don't donate should still be able to access the networking section, those that do donate can access everywhere else.

I live in Australia so i am pretty much just a bemused spectator from afar to all this stuff going down, thus i probably don't need to network really.

But our brothers and sisters on the "front lines" in the US and the UK that are poor could probably could make use of the networking section. Why not give them access to that section for free?

Anyway, thanks for allowing us to continue to lurk, read and watch for free. You cannot offer a fairer deal than that.

All the best. See you on the other side

Triaxis

[franciejones]

I support Bill and Kerry 100%

I absolutely WILL PAY to be here at Avalon. Most sites with video CHARGE people to watch their interviews or read articles. I am so GRATEFUL to Project Camelot. I do not remember how I found them BUT I assure all who read this, were it not for PC, I would never have waked from my zombie-like slumber. In my mind, Project Camelot and Project Avalon are sisters to each other..and if paying at Avalon will help support Camelot...then I would hope everyone would be willing to pay to help out.

I am also very excited to see when the T-shirts and much awaited DVD's will be available. (Do some baseball caps too if you can Bill!)I will be first in line for both! I have yet to get my family to watch their interviews as no one will sit in front of the computer to do it...with DVD's my family will greatly benefit!

Warmest Wishes-Francie Jones

[burgundia]

Since i can find here very interesting and valuable information I am not going to quit. However, it made me really sad and a bit surprised, that so many people ( especially in the US) can't afford $5 a month. I guess the situation there must be really bad. I myself will be able to pay that amount of money and perhaps I'll be able to "sponsor" another person from time to time. If sb needs help, let me know. I'm not going to save money for my retirement or any other purpose in the face of possible future disasters or what may soon become of money. And if the future appears to be a bliss maybe i won't need money at all.

[franciejones]

Originally Posted by burgundia

Since i can find here very interesting and valuable information I am not going to quit. However, it made me really sad and a bit surprised, that so many people ( especially in the US) can't afford $5 a month. I guess the situation there must be really bad. I myself will be able to pay that amount of money and perhaps I'll be able to "sponsor" another person from time to time. If sb needs help, let me know. I'm not going to save money for my retirement or any other purpose in the face of possible future disasters or what may soon become of money. And if the future appears to be a bliss maybe i won't need money at all.

Very good point burgundia! As an American, I can tell you from my own observation that people in this country (please don't throw a fit when I say this fellow Americans) always seem to want something for nothing. While some may in fact be having difficulty with money (myself included) --it is my opinion that many of the Americans here were "throwing a fit". Others seemed to be using the "fee issue" as a way to create drama or dissent. (dramatic goodbyes???) I know that I can certainly pinch $60.00 per year.....I can cut out fast food, frivolous driving, one less new pair of shoes per year...change my cable suhscription, air dry my clothes in the summer, get a cheaper haircut....the list could go on and on. To any who would PM me with angry retorts....please save it! If you are American, you will know that what I say is true. Truly destitute people do not even have internet service...so lets stop with all the silly posts about having to subscribe please