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Old 01-29-2010, 11:29 PM   #1
timetotelltheworld
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Default is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/...ton_iran_china


Clinton: China risks isolation over Iran


PARIS – U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned China on Friday it risks diplomatic isolation and disruption to its energy supplies unless it helps keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons.s

Speaking in Paris, Clinton said she and others who support additional sanctions on Iran over its disputed nuclear program are lobbying China to back new U.N. penalties on the Iranian government.

She said she understood China's reluctance to impose new penalties on Iran, its third-largest supplier of oil. But she stressed that a nuclear-armed Iran would destabilize the Persian Gulf and imperil oil shipments China gets from other Arab states in the region.

There is a new push for sanctions at the U.N. because of Iran's continued refusal to engage on the matter with the five permanent members of the Security Council — Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States — and Germany.

Administration officials have invited new talks with Iran, but with no sign that Iran wants to do business, the focus has turned to penalties.

"As we move away from the engagement track, which has not produced the result that some had hoped for, and move forward on the pressure and sanctions track, China will be under a lot of pressure to recognize the destabilizing impact that a nuclear-armed Iran would have in the Gulf, from which they receive a significant percentage of their oil supplies," Clinton said.

She spoke a day after the U.S. Senate approved new sanctions against Iran that would extend U.S. prohibitions on business dealings with Iran. The United States has no diplomatic relations with Iran and extremely limited commercial interaction, all as a result of the rupture in 1979 when militants took over the U.S. Embassy.

Clinton aid the legislative efforts do not conflict with her work to line up other countries for separate international sanctions against Iran.

"We will do what we can to direct their legislation in a way that supports our efforts internationally," Clinton said in Paris.

"We're going to work as hard as we can to get the strongest possible resolution," at the U.N., Clinton said.

The United States is the most visible leader in the new push for U.N. Security Council sanctions, and Clinton spent much of her time in Europe this week lobbying major powers whose support she needs to pass and enforce new economic penalties. Some of the additional measures that will be proposed target elements of Iran's powerful militia structure, U.S. officials said.

The Security Council has approved three previous sets of restrictions and penalties related to Iran's defiance of international demands for assurances about its nuclear program. The punishments have mostly been mild and directed at government and business entities tied to the nuclear program. In response, Iran has accelerated its work to enrich uranium.

"We certainly expect to come up with an even firmer fourth resolution," French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said following a meeting with Clinton on Friday.

The Obama administration has said Iran appears bent on developing nuclear weapons, although Iran claims its nuclear work is peaceful. Iran is thought to have stockpiled more than enough nuclear material to manufacture a single bomb, and more is being made daily.

The risks of an Iranian bomb are manifold, Clinton said.

"It will produce an arms race," in the Persian Gulf, and Israel will feel its very existence threatened, Clinton said in response to a question from an audience member during a speech at a French military academy. "All of that is incredibly dangerous."

The United States has cautioned Israel publicly against a pre-emptive strike on Iran's known nuclear facilities, arguing that such an attack would invite an arms race and retaliation.

China has traditionally resisted U.N. Security Council sanctions, saying they are counterproductive and harm efforts to persuade Iran to prove its claim that the nuclear program is peaceful.

Clinton met Thursday in London with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi to make the case to move ahead with sanctions at the United Nations. U.S. officials said Yang's response was noncommittal.

In Paris, Clinton said her message to the Chinese had been this: "We understand that right now it seems counterproductive to you to sanction a country from which you get so much of the natural resources your growing economy needs. But think about the longer-term implications."

The United States risked tension with China on a different matter, with formal word Friday that an arms sale to Taiwan will go ahead. The deal would provide more than $6 billion in weapons sales to the self-governing island the Chinese claim as their own.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:54 AM   #2
timetotelltheworld
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Default Re: is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

lets see lets see if we can start ww 3

Mod Edit: This post is poor taste and objectionable to some. Sounds like rooting for destruction?

Last edited by UncleJohn; 01-30-2010 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

Ok, a few thoughts...

Quote:
"The risks of an Iranian bomb are manifold", Clinton said. "It will produce an arms race," in the Persian Gulf, and Israel will feel its very existence threatened, Clinton said in response to a question from an audience member during a speech at a French military academy. "All of that is incredibly dangerous."
So the usual foolishness prevails, and the lie begins immediately, removing the possibility of looking at the issue from the other side. This immediately tells Iran that genuine negotiations are impossible. This is about "negotiating surrender" before any other consideration.

What makes Iran "unqualified" to defend itself, in kind? And why is that question never entertained? After all, Israel has nuclear weapons, already. The notion of an Israeli first strike has not been "removed" or dealt with, either.

Notice that: "The United States has cautioned Israel publicly against a pre-emptive strike on Iran's known nuclear facilities, arguing that such an attack would invite an arms race and retaliation."

Well, there is an interesting turn. Israel having nukes doesn't constitute an "arms race", but Iran having them does. And what is Iran to make of the fact that the US feels a need to "caution" its ally against a "pre-emptive strikes", several times each year? If "Israel will feel its very existence threatened" what should Iran feel now?

Place yourself in Iran's position. A neighbor who appears to be ready and willing to engage in a first stike, being backed by another nuclear power. Given that situation, Almost any prudent government would be working on parity by developing a nuclear arsenal.

What no one is talking to Iran about, is what they really fear, and the real result no one wants. Iran "losing a bomb", or nuclear material to an Islamic "client" organization. Not discussing their nuclear arsenal plans means not talking to them about this, as well. This is a mistake, because it means no inspection, with a possibility of, or insistence upon gathering "isotope samples". Material which would make it very difficult for Iran to "lose one" with impunity.

The process they're using is designed to attempt to reign in Iran's ambitions in the Mid-East while doing nothing about Israel's. It's obvious, and Iran has no interest, in it. Rightly so.

Continuing along these lines is going to result in Iran doing exactly what everyone wants to prevent. Additional arming of Iran's friends along Israel's border, and even the possibility of this including nuclear material, at some point.

At this point, I don't think there will be any kind of successful process, unless the desired inspections, etc are conducted in both Israel, and Iran.
____________________________________________

Next bit of foolishness:
Quote:
China has traditionally resisted U.N. Security Council sanctions, saying they are counterproductive and harm efforts to persuade Iran to prove its claim that the nuclear program is peaceful.
1. Something else the US attitude completely ignores:
Under the Non-Proliferation Treaty Iran has signed, developing nuclear facilities for peaceful purposes, including nuclear generators, etc is completely legal!

Here again, by pretending this is not true, or just not true for Iran, the US makes itself appear a tool of Israel. Again, it winds up making sure what it doesn't want, becomes possible, and encourages Iran to build bombs. We're encouraging them here because we make plain that, even if Iran IS complying fully, the US will continue to pretend they aren't, and continue sanctions, threats, or worse.

2. They also risk another possible failure:
Iran is not some US banana republic of a client. It is a sovereign country, with powerful allies (as we keep not learning, over and over).

It's quite possible that Iran will reach a point where they will simply withdraw from the treaty. There goes any obligation to engage in any form of negotiations, inspections, or anything else!

Now all of our "siding with Israel" winds up hanging on our nose, like a booger, because Israel has refused to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, even though everyone knows they've had them since the 1960's.

Now Iran is under no obligation to "return" to a treaty their enemy refuses to consider!

Big time, NOT smart!
____________________________________________

Quote:
Clinton met Thursday in London with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi to make the case to move ahead with sanctions at the United Nations. U.S. officials said Yang's response was noncommittal.

In Paris, Clinton said her message to the Chinese had been this: "We understand that right now it seems counterproductive to you to sanction a country from which you get so much of the natural resources your growing economy needs. But think about the longer-term implications."
Let's begin with a couple of important things.

The first one is never mentioned in the press, and never voiced by our government.

Our government has forsaken any leverage available on "moral grounds" with any other nation on the planet. America used to be able to approach almost any nation standing on high ground from the beginning because of our stated "National Goals" (you know all that stuff about "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" ?) and urge/demand the other guy "Do what's right".

We, as a nation, a government, threw that away back in 2002. We as a people knowingly approved of this in 2006, 2008 and continue to do this to this very day.

It was in 2002 that our government began using kidnap and torture of people anywhere on the earth, as a formal foreign policy practice. We, as a people re-elected that in 2006, and again in 2008. In fact, as of just a few months ago 54% of Americans polled approved of torturing people.

So regardless what we say our intentions are, we aren't bringing anyone "Freedom or Democracy". What we are bringing is our Army, and we'll flatten any country that resists it. In short, our "foreign interests" are no more noble, or benign than any other country's. That includes China.

China knows it, and uses that to it's advantage very well. While we decry what is going on in many African nations, re. human rights, etc. China doesn't get "squirmy" over what these nations do to their own people, they do the same. No, China is there making business deals! Closing out our ability to do same. They have no such noble ideas, they just don't kid themselves, or anyone else about them.

They are doing this now with Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and even Iraq. China is the one willing to "keep it strictly business". So given this "even ground" China is not likely to consider any US resolution, or anything else that isn't in their favor.

The second one isn't any better. The US has basically bankrupted itself; but one of the chief architects of the means has been China.

China has been "replacing" the US in the areas of manufacturing, construction, banking, and slowly technology in the last 30 years. Next, China began replacing us as the "technology giver" to the world.

China has cut deals with Canada, all over South America, Africa, and the Mid-East. Technology for food, and raw materials. It may sound like something out of Sun Tzu's Art Of War, but it's actually right out of a modern book on the same subject Unrestricted War.

The question is: How do you defeat an enemy you cannot afford to go to war with?
Answer: You make them irrelevant.

This is exactly what they have done, and the country that helped the most is the US, itself.

So now,
  • Morally bankrupt,
  • Financially bankrupt, even dependent on China to float our loans,
  • Over-extended militarily, and
  • Facing a possible revolt of our own,
We go to China and say, "But think about the longer-term implications."

For 30+ years, they HAVE! By now they must think we truly are as stupid as we have acted.

We have cornered ourselves into a position of such weakness that we are approaching the point where our only option left to us, when genuinely pushed is to threaten, or conduct nuclear warfare. In this weakened state, the rest of the world will not allow us to do that no matter what threat we claim, even though it actually exists. In the eyes of the world, Whose the "nuisance" now?

A sad position for the US, and a bad position for just about everyone, except China, and Russia.

We can do better, and we'd damn well better do it soon.

Fred's thoughts, free for the taking, and worth every penny.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:35 AM   #4
Humble Janitor
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Default Re: is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

Hillary's just blowing smoke out of her ass. When will she get it that we know that her and Billy Boy are nothing but a bunch of two-timing, double-crossing, money-laundering, power-grabbing fools that have nothing left in their arsenal to FOOL the people!!!

Rest assured, you start a war in Iran and you're asking for a world of trouble. We can derail this sentiment and ensure that Hillary's wishes never come true.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

Hillary behind the scenes: "and if you do not comply, we'll HAARP you".
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: is anybody noticeing where our forign policy is going...food for thought

Yes, just google Chatham House or the Royal Institute of International Affairs!

Or better yet visit the brilliant www.globalresearch.ca for excellent articles on USA Foreign Policy!
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