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Old 02-20-2010, 10:46 PM   #176
truthseekerdan
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Today's inspirational verse:

Matthew 7:13 (New International Version)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

14. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

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Old 02-20-2010, 11:02 PM   #177
beren
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Truthseekerdan, that was one nice gem!

Here`s another:

Proverbs 15:2,3,4

2 The tongue of the wise commends knowledge,
but the mouth of the fool gushes folly.

3 The eyes of the LORD are everywhere,
keeping watch on the wicked and the good.

4 The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life,
but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:09 PM   #178
beren
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Well now is my turn after Frank brought good question; I want to broad this last verse from previous reply; namely ,
The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life,
but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.

What ,according to this, is a tree of life?
Personally I think it is some tree which has its own fruits of unknown to us substances which nourish perfectly as we can never imagine or our science to grasp about.

Other thing that comes into my mind is first line in verse-tongue that brings healing-

Think about it, first the thought is formed along with emotion in our mind and heart. Then that vibration transforms into words that we say.

In our power lies healing or destruction.
Let us choose wisely.



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Old 02-21-2010, 02:41 AM   #179
Frank Samuel
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Talking Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

I hope my questions have inspire you for that has been my reasoning to post them. I will mention that the gates of Heaven are open to all . God never closes that gate. It is only us that close the gate on ourselves.The heart holds the key to understanding the true nature of God, it is there where your answers are found. This is the simplicity yet the power that is within each and every one of us. In the cosmic realm are many Holy books written through billions of years of souls seeking a reconnection to the origin of all things. History for each of us is a continuous repetition, sometimes we take one step forward and two steps backwards while other times we take one step back and three steps forward. In many ways we are the masters and slaves of our own illusions of self . The end of times comes to us in each lifetime beginning anew in another. Humility is essential in the discovery of our true self. Since we are all equal in the eyes of God for me that means that I have no value as an individual unless I am connected to the whole . There's no self without the inclusion of all. Mandela and Desmond Tutu are the perfect examples of that by forgiving their oppressors, they could have easily condemned them yet they did not, they where embrace, their enemies became dear friends. This act of love and forgiveness has shown how we are evolving as spiritual beings on this planet and YES there's hope for the inhabitants of this world. Indeed my friends we are all our brother's keeper
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:16 AM   #180
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The difference between spritual progress and material progress.

Material progress for the individual soul is temporary and ends at the death of the body.

Spiritual progress is permanent and does not die when the body dies.

Krishna says in this regard that he maintains what we have and he carries what we lack and that just a little bit of progress on this path can save one from the greatest dangers.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:27 PM   #181
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Is it a desirable thing to cast aside our teachers? Is it a good train of thought to be 'above' them? Would a Christian discard Christ? Would a child discard its parents? I feel we should love and respect our teachers through the ages, and that to feel above them would actually be a fall down.

Any thoughts my friends?
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:51 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundthetable View Post
Is it a desirable thing to cast aside our teachers? Is it a good train of thought to be 'above' them? Would a Christian discard Christ? Would a child discard its parents? I feel we should love and respect our teachers through the ages, and that to feel above them would actually be a fall down.

Any thoughts my friends?
Hello my friend.
Its a very good question.
I can only guess at an answer.
I still have main input from Dr Hawkins videos and books, some I have read 5 times.
Always fresh always new.
Paradoxes are the norm in spiritual teaching.
On the one hand you have "The Grace of the Guru" on the other the advice to throw away the books at a certain point..
Part of the difficulty for me is that the enlightened speak in hindsight.
Ramana was in his teens when he imagined what it would be like to die and the ego did just that and left him speechless in a state of bliss for years.
Eckhart Tolle had the thought "I can no longer live with myself followed by, is there two of me" on contemplating that a few moments of fear then when he awoke the world was completely differnt in his perception, the mind silent.
Dr Hawkins in the depth of despair called out "If there is a God I ask him for help" moments of fear then some time latter when he came too he experienced the world totally differently. In each case it seems enlightenment was entirely the work of God.
Ramesh said. "God gave you the ego let Him remove it"

In each case the enlightenment matured, a period of being able to function in the world then withdrawal from the world in a state of bliss for some years, then some return to teach.
All we can do is our best to remove the obstacles to enlightenment and trust God to do the rest.

I dont think the Guru/teaching should be cast aside but always respected, he may say its time for you to go. Your inner self may know when its time.
The paradox is belief system must be let go of, the thought that you are dependent on a teaching or teacher must be let go of too
Sorry for the long answer.
Chris

Chris
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:25 AM   #183
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Thankyou for response Chris,

i know of no teaching that says cast aside the bible or the koran or the bhagavad gita. God teaches through these books and the knowledge is carried through the ages by various spiritual masters. These books will never be out of fashion for they teach a way of life we all recognise inside. We also know how to recognise bogus gurus and charlatons through these books in that if a teacher does not practice what is stated they should not be accepted as an authority on these matters.

Your friend,

att
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:57 AM   #184
Frank Samuel
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You are right all Holy Books are tools to guide us in our spiritual path. This is only one way to reach the same destination. The problem throughout History that has divided us is that we bashed people in the head with our Holy books as the way. If you do not follow what this Holy Book says you will never reach Nirvana or the Kingdom of Heaven. This for me is a terrible mistake that has kept man of faith divided instead of united. So many wars so much suffering all in the name of God.
We become so blinded by our believes that we fail to see God in the heart of those that do not follow any type of religion. A good example of that is the native tribes all around the world, many are close to God by creating a personal connection without the need to read a Holy Book or be a part of a particular religion. The destination to the Heart of God is simple is only us that make it complicated. Love and Blessings to all..
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:32 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundthetable View Post
Is it a desirable thing to cast aside our teachers? Is it a good train of thought to be 'above' them? Would a Christian discard Christ? Would a child discard its parents? I feel we should love and respect our teachers through the ages, and that to feel above them would actually be a fall down.

Any thoughts my friends?
Part two of my answer.
The Buddha said put no head above your own.

I personally would not consider myself to be above or better than anyone, and certainly not spiritual greats, who have done so much for the world.
To feel above would be egoic lacking in humility -- pride comes before a fall.

Christ said, cant remember exactly but along the lines of this "You can do this and even more." Such was his humility.
Christ pointed to the Father our Creator at all times, I dont think he wanted a religion set up in his name, he was totally for God. The Father and I are One.
However Christ is the Savior and if asked will intercede on your behalf at the gates of heaven.

Hawkins says devotion due only to God but love and respect all others.

Ramesh Balsekar the Advaita teacher whom I met had a picture of Ramana who he said was the Guru's Guru even though Nasargadatta was his teacher.

Its not that any of the Holy Books you mention should be cast aside for they are eternal in Tuth just the teachers books set aside, they can allways be picked up again if necessary.
Group identity can be formed too, Im a Hawkins follower, Im an Eckhart follower, im a this Im a that, all spiritual ego. Even identifying with a major religion like Buddism, Its almost like saying my way is better, I know.

Its between me and God no one else, no religion not even a teacher.

Otherwise
Basically I am in agreement with you underthetable.

I would however point out that the success rate, enlightenment, of following any teaching is not high perhaps because an atachment can be formed to the teacher and teaching. This creates a duality and then the Father and I are not One.

Its subtle but there you have my feeling on it.

My last thought is that it would be ok if I never read another word on spirituality.
There is a difference in knowing about it and being it.
The teaching is so deeply ingrained, its like living the prayer, the depth will mature but its solid after thirty five years of reading, practicing, failing, getting up again., im in it for life.
I am in God's hands, He is in my heart.

Thanks again for the thread aroundthetable.
With love and respect
Chris

Last edited by greybeard; 02-22-2010 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:23 AM   #186
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CH 18 Text 66

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

Ch 12 Text 8

Just fix your mind upon me, the supreme personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in me always, without a doubt.

Dear roundthetable
another answer came to me, Im not saying im right---far from it, but I would like debate on this.
I think the answer to your question lies in what you posted earlier and I have pasted above.

If we can but believe that we are one with God, that enlightenment is what remains when all that is not God is removed. Then the aswer may be in this question.
Does God need, a teaching, a religion to know that He is?


Ramana said.
Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away.
A time for books a time for teachers and then????
Chris
Namaste
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:26 AM   #187
truthseekerdan
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundthetable View Post
Is it a desirable thing to cast aside our teachers? Is it a good train of thought to be 'above' them? Would a Christian discard Christ? Would a child discard its parents? I feel we should love and respect our teachers through the ages, and that to feel above them would actually be a fall down.

Any thoughts my friends?
aroundthetable:

My friend, just to clarify your Q.; a more correct one will be: Would a christian discard Jesus?
What I mean is that Jesus did not have his last name Christ.
However, He (not ego) became Christ which means His physical body reflected God, (Creator embodied in human flesh).
We all on the path of spirituality should pursue Christhood. Please read the following quote, hope it will help you understand.

Quote:
When Jesus said "no man cometh to the father but by me" he did not refer to his historical person, nor to an exclusivist religion that claims to represent him. He was referring directly to a state of consciousness that we might call higher consciousness, enlightenment, cosmic consciousness or the Christ consciousness.

This universal state of consciousness is what the Gospel of John refers to as the Word, but the correct translation is the LOGOS. This Logos is the basic state of consciousness that God created before God started to create the world of form. Therefore, everything is created out of the Christ consciousness. The purpose of the Christ consciousness is to ensure oneness between the Creator and its creation.

God had planned to create self-aware extensions of itself – human beings are some of them – and give them free will. God knew that this made it possible for us to descend into a state of consciousness in which we could forget our origin as extensions of God's own Being. We could come to see ourselves as separated from an external God instead of seeing God within ourselves.
Love and light,

Dan
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:29 AM   #188
truth and integrity
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Quote:
Originally posted bytruthseekerdan
Some parts of the today's Bible are deliberately manipulated (changed), and some also poorly translated. However, some parts fortunately still unchanged.
I was curious about it and I did some research. I was shocked that they started as you said deliberate manipulation almost 200 years ago and they are still doing it today.

Quote:
That's why when reading the Bible, in order to understand it properly one has to be a bit more spiritually grown up.
It is so true. It took me many years to seek enlightenment through eastern spiritual philosophy, from Buddhism, Raja Yoga, to Chakras. I have never read The Bible until recently. There is such a deep wisdom.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:37 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth and integrity View Post
I was curious about it and I did some research. I was shocked that they started as you said deliberate manipulation almost 200 years ago and they are still doing it today.



It is so true. It took me many years to seek enlightenment through eastern spiritual philosophy, from Buddhism, Raja Yoga, to Chakras. I have never read The Bible until recently. There is such a deep wisdom.
I'm glad and happy that you realized that my friend.
Please feel free to share your knowledge on this thread.

Love and light,

Dan
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:46 AM   #190
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I am so glad that there are here people like you. It is not so trendy any more to talk about the Bible in this New Age Movement Era.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:35 AM   #191
truthseekerdan
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Inspirational verse of the day:

Matthew 18:3 (New International Version)

3. And he (Jesus) said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven".



With Love,

Dan
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:05 AM   #192
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Good morning One and all.
Spiritual is a bit like down the rabbit hole.
The further you go the more you discover to keep or put aside.
Ultimate Truth. Only God Is.
However that is not helpful to where we are at the moment.
There is no ego just a bundle of thoughts claiming to be I.
Thats not helpful to begin with.

Without being judgmental its surprises me that at least some Christians dont know the history of the Bible. Its first big alteration was at the Council of Nancia around about 400AC. I have the essence not the detail.
Books of the original bible were dropped, Revelations was brought in.
All reference to past life was dropped except one about John the Baptist.

I therfore place my faith in the word of those here and now who are enlightened including those of recent history ie Ramana, Nasargadatta, Yogananda who's words were faithfully coppied and put in book while they were still alive.
Who knows for sure what was said thousands of years ago, though the essence remains.

Of all, without exception, that I have read, Dr David Hawkins gives the most detailed information on the path to enlightenment and what the state of enlightenment is from an experiential position. Not written by followers, not written after death, written by him.

Web site
http://www.veritaspub.com/

His life history can be found on the site.
We tend to think if some one is of our time and place ( a prophet in his own country etc) then the teaching cant be as valid as one from India, Nepal or another century. Need that be so?
Enlightenment is enlightenment.
Enlightenment is to be in Christ consciousness.
Namaste
Chris
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:04 AM   #193
Frank Samuel
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Greybeard my friend at one point in my life I had an amazing collection of books, proud to consider myself an educated man. A scholar of the Bible and other Holy Books, often I sat all night with friends and debate with them about them. Now an old foggie of 52 I realize my foolish pride was my motivation. In the last 4 yrs. of my life I have learn so much about my spiritual connection to God and I have not read a single book. Think about this for a moment in the library of our collective conscious are millions of Holy books you could access . There's many secrets yet to be uncover about our spirituality. My book shelf came down and I started from zero relearning everything I thought I once knew. How do you think these Holy Books where written in the first place ? There's many authors just in one chapter in the Bible, who dictated to them what to write and how did they come across this information ? I am smiling as I write this . Our vision becomes so narrow we often missed the whole point of our connection to God, knowledge is endless, it is infinite yet it is very simple to access. You often refer to it as Faith . As you know I am respectful of everyone ones belief because they are bits and pieces of the truth. Ah but our learning and understanding lies beyond books straight if you will into the Heart of God.

Last edited by Frank Samuel; 02-22-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:20 AM   #194
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Wonderful answers all and welcome to truth and integrity ( literally!)

Thanks for pointing out the difference between Christ and Jesus Truthseeker, i am not too familiar with the fine details of Christianity in that way. Krishna says

'It is better to perform your own duties even faultily, than to perform someone elses duties perfectly, for that way lies madness.'


Another good point is that cultures like the north american indians, eskimos etc etc etc, also have there way of finding God and yes of course they do this without spiritual books. They do however use symbols, prayers, pictures, dancing etc and maintain a deep oral tradition, which if they commited to books would not render them invalid.

In regards to Teachers. A Bona Fide teacher considers themselves a servant of God, and his or her teacher also think in that way ( at least in the Vedic tradition of Vaishnavism) i am also a servant...so in this way we are the servant of the servant of the servant and so on. And Frank, yes, it is not a good idea to bash somebody with a holy book!!

Thankyou all for your words,

your humble servant,

att

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Old 02-22-2010, 10:33 AM   #195
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Of course you are right my friend Frank.
The advice given me was. " If the goal is enlightenment then spend time with those who are in that state, in person if possible or via book" On questioning why the importance of being with a Sage/Mystic it was explained that the high spiritual energy of the Sage attaches to the auric field of the student and there is then an activation of kundalini spiritual energy/holyspirit within, traditionally called "The Grace of the Guru" (words can only point to truth).
The Self of the student is the same as the Self of the teacher.
So its down to spiritual energy rather than words though the books/words contain degrees of spiritual energy.
I was drawn to spend time on several ashrams, attend talks given by Eckhart Tolle, every spare penny I had was spent on the quest for Truth. That was necessary for me but not necessarily so for others.
I still read because of the uplifting energy.
Like you my book shelf is virtually empty, they served their purpose.
The mind is virtually silent.
While it seems the story is about me and my experiences I dont think I had a choice, Once one is committed to finding God within then spiritual intention leads to a synchronism thats leads one where one needs to be.
With love
Chris
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:40 AM   #196
Frank Samuel
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I love the term servant because that implies humility. I too consider myself a servant. The flip side of that is that it is a term by which others in the name of God have enslave millions upon millions of people. We have created governments that instead of serving the people are exploiting them. Holy Books are powerful weapons. The recent movie, " The Book of Eli ", is a perfect example of that. I am inspire by you aroundthetable , I only wish to point out that knowledge is a two edge sword that indeed has to be use with humility and with the heart of a servant. Thank you for your words of wisdom for they ring ever so true in my Heart.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:46 AM   #197
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Krishna states, always remember me with love and devotion and surely you will come to me, of this there is no doubt.

Heres to remembrance fellow souls x
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:48 AM   #198
Frank Samuel
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Greybeard, Aroundthetable and everyone who is reading this thread a warm hug and kiss for you are all my dear friends, I am humble by your wisdom and love.
My children and daily chores are calling me so if you please excuse me time to put our words of wisdom into action.

Have a great day everyone.

Blessings to all...
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:53 AM   #199
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Hawkins quote.
Eventually the only prayer that is left is "How may I serve you beloved God"
He is in 80s and still in active service.

While I speak mainly of him that is a personal preference at this moment and is no way saying that the teaching coming through him is superior in any way.
He has developed a map of consciousness and calibrated holy books.
The Bhagavad Gita calibrates extremely high and that is one of the most ancient texts,
God unfashionable, that is a joke.
Namaste
Chris
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:00 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
Greybeard, Aroundthetable and everyone who is reading this thread a warm hug and kiss for you are all my dear friends, I am humble by your wisdom and love.
My children and daily chores are calling me so if you please excuse me time to put our words of wisdom into action.

Have a great day everyone.

Blessings to all...
AWW thankyou Frank...made my heart glow GROUP HUG!!!!
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