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Old 01-22-2010, 10:16 AM   #26
Stardustaquarion
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Operator View Post
Well well, if time doesn't exist, consequently the future indeed doesn't exist either ... so what is halfpasthuman.com about then ?

I can easily understand the concept of webbots since I am a web-application programmer myself and although I am
not knowledgeable in linguistics I can only assume there might be a connection between use of language and psychic abilities.

But as of lately I noticed that Cliff is beginning to talk more and more on a vast diversity of subjects and seems knowledgeable
on physics, astronomy etc. (stardom fever ?) The core of it all ending up as fear mongering.

I tend to see it more and more as programming now ... (and as a programmer I should know).
If you overload the people with concepts and ideas (like the 2012 movie) we will end up manifesting it.
That's why the PTB don't like the popularity of the Avatar movie ! It will bring us back to loving nature and
kick the bastards of this planet ....

I know how to make predictions: I create programs and need a machine to execute it for me. Sometimes it needs a little
debugging but in the end it's exactly performing how I wanted it to be.

So ... let's not be a machine and become human again. Let the PTB execute their twisted programs on themselves


I think that it may be that time does not exist as a linear concept but as a multitude of probabilities it does and there is where we get to make choices and use our free will and its consequences


Cheers
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:23 AM   #27
feardia
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

Cliff has recently been setting himself up as a guru and going down the path of the whistleblowers he criticises. Let us not forget that last year he was promoting Andrew de Bassagio as the planetary whistleblower predicted by the webbots. Funny that de Bassagio was/is/will be a time-traveller, and Clif makes his money from one of the strange properties of time that even he doesn't understand properly, I suppose thats why he thinks he's qualified to talk about it.

There is a big mystery about time and I don't think Cliff has cracked it, I would rather listen to Nassim Haramein or someone who really knows what they are talking about, like Wubbo Ockels (see vid). I heard (or dreamt) that when Jrod or His Omnipotarsehole Krll was taken to meet the physicists he went up to the blackboard and rubbed out e=mc2 and replaced it with e=delta t c2.

i think those of us on this forum have enough discernment to see through all of these whistleblowers and other bs merchants, we all ahve to find our own truth...

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Old 01-22-2010, 01:16 PM   #28
Majorion
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by feardia View Post
i think those of us on this forum have enough discernment to see through all of these whistleblowers and other bs merchants, we all ahve to find our own truth...
People like Cliff are just trying to capitalize on Project Camelot's reputation and fame.
He is just another nobody who wants to be somebody.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:16 PM   #29
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Fredkc View Post
I gotta keep asking, and I mean no ill feelings towards you, pineal, but...

Doesn't Cliff High already have a web site?

Fred
we should ban talking about wilcock, deagle, veritas and others too
I though different prspective was #1 rule here and than we can discern


Quote:
Cliff has an interesting take here. If time is just a perception (and I think it is), and all things past, present, and future are really happening at the same time, then why wouldn't it be possible to change one's perception to the relative past or future, thus traveling in time?

--sjkted
from what I understand: is you can not go to a place that does not exist anymore or yet (physically of course :-))


Quote:
Well well, if time doesn't exist, consequently the future indeed doesn't exist either ... so what is halfpasthuman.com about then ?

I can easily understand the concept of webbots since I am a web-application programmer myself and although I am
not knowledgeable in linguistics I can only assume there might be a connection between use of language and psychic abilities.

But as of lately I noticed that Cliff is beginning to talk more and more on a vast diversity of subjects and seems knowledgeable
on physics, astronomy etc. (stardom fever ?) The core of it all ending up as fear mongering.

I tend to see it more and more as programming now ... (and as a programmer I should know).
If you overload the people with concepts and ideas (like the 2012 movie) we will end up manifesting it.
That's why the PTB don't like the popularity of the Avatar movie ! It will bring us back to loving nature and
kick the bastards of this planet ....

I know how to make predictions: I create programs and need a machine to execute it for me. Sometimes it needs a little
debugging but in the end it's exactly performing how I wanted it to be.

So ... let's not be a machine and become human again. Let the PTB execute their twisted programs on themselves
halfpasthuman is based on nuance, and from we wrote, would operate inbetween destruction and creation;
because we only get perception of time, we don't know how long do those events last in universe's time (maybe only "one" space fart :-))

i'm of the opinion that not "specially" trained in the area would be a better observer than those that are trained, in other words it's hard to notice change if your thought process doesn't allow it (lets say in clif current constract his not able to timetravel)

overload wouldn't cause events to happen simply because of overload, to manifest you have to focus, when I have overloaded mind, first I have to meditate/process everything and than can concentrate on something

Quote:
Cliff has recently been setting himself up as a guru and going down the path of the whistleblowers he criticises. Let us not forget that last year he was promoting Andrew de Bassagio as the planetary whistleblower predicted by the webbots. Funny that de Bassagio was/is/will be a time-traveller, and Clif makes his money from one of the strange properties of time that even he doesn't understand properly, I suppose thats why he thinks he's qualified to talk about it.

There is a big mystery about time and I don't think Cliff has cracked it, I would rather listen to Nassim Haramein or someone who really knows what they are talking about, like Wubbo Ockels (see vid). I heard (or dreamt) that when Jrod or His Omnipotarsehole Krll was taken to meet the physicists he went up to the blackboard and rubbed out e=mc2 and replaced it with e=delta t c2.

i think those of us on this forum have enough discernment to see through all of these whistleblowers and other bs merchants, we all ahve to find our own truth...

what was said yar ago does not have to be true now, your argument would apply to you as well when you heard the first time in your life new claim and said it was not true, i.e. mr Smith who hears about 9/11 for the first time, he rejects it, but after a year his deep into conspiracy, came next year he is saying it wasn't a bomb it was a beem weapon, would you say his wrong, NO
just new facts or simple cogitation change his view point, we all have the right and responsibility to do so

from clifs site
Quote:
Well, this understanding now means (until proven wrong) that time travel is not possible
My own conclusions:
He never wrote that he is not wrong, just for now, nor did he say believe me, but reject and discern for own.
What bassiago said was that you can not go past the time where the first machine was built, which makes sense to me, but what if there are other, not earthly timemachine on earth?

Contrary to that if timetravel exist why ptw wouldn't teleport or timetravel to after 2012 or 2015?
Maybe there is another way of traveling which we don;t know or are capealbe of understanding.
Reality shows however that if there is timetravel it is not so easy, vide ptw hiding not skiping couple years!

Another thing I wanted to write is the fact that clif is just a tool in universe, like tesla, jesus or simple john, he has a purpose.
He has the advantage of having model of model space, where he keeps himself and for my mind he keeps in line with what he sees there, self fulling life. Probablly he knows he will get a lot of bashing and booing, but does it anyways, putting his reputation on the line, which is not easy.
There are not to many people who are so controversial like him, either love him or hate him, which only shows to me that proponents should be more critical, where opponents need more discernment.

gibonos
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:44 PM   #30
Roman195
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

Contrary to that if timetravel exist why ptw wouldn't teleport or timetravel to after 2012 or 2015?
Maybe there is another way of traveling which we don;t know or are capealbe of understanding.
Reality shows however that if there is timetravel it is not so easy, vide ptw hiding not skiping couple years!


gibonos[/QUOTE]

The powers that be have tried to look at the future( it was assured them through “Looking Glass” maybe). Then the“looking glass’s” vision of the future started to change according to Dan B.. What could have happened? One thing, I suppose could have happened, Free Will! Here’s how I see it. Through the ages Free Will has been suppressed and the PTB choices were substituted for the Will of the people. It was easy to predict then, because their choices had the effect of Dogma (Am God said backwards). The new PTB seen a change in their master plan and verified through “Looking Glass” maybe. They started to panic. Our created future is starting to disappear, and these other time lines started to gain in prominence. Their worst fears started to act up, for they might have known the real reason why this was happening. People were starting to wake up and not being sheeples anymore. Sheeples were starting to make their own choices, add the 100th monkey effect and they realized it was unstoppable. So now plan b is in effect for them, eliminate free thinkers and we can start this all over again. Maybe the reason they're preparing to hide underground? I can go into many reasons why they are wrong, but the main one is; I think we have reached the point where we can shape our own future and no matter how hard they try. They are only assuring their future in a different timeline. We are on our own path now and unless they realize they too have Free Will their faith is sealed in their timeline.
In Peace and Unity,
Roman
“He who doesn’t learn from the past is destine to relive it.”

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Old 01-22-2010, 03:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

I find this amazing, thus these are the same skeptics the said the earth was flat and if you said it was not that was BS,
Same skeptics that said man can not or shall not take to the skies yet we have, and again the same skeptics that said if a woman floats she is a witch and if she drowns she is not? because we believe that we are civilized make no mistake on how archaic our minds truly are. Simply because one has an ipod and a very big television human nature is to be skeptical and afraid about things that they do not understand. Unless the individual can see the truth then the collective shall still wear blinders.

Fifteen years ago the skeptics "knew" David Icke was crazy, now he is a visionary for exposing aspects that have come to light, one should not be so quick to judge a person's experience against there own, a person can live an entire lifetime and be totally unaware of the world around them, yet some are so aware that they cannot handle normal society.

I frown upon Cliff High for this as something must have touched a nerve with him. Short of calling out a few people, and yet when you meet a being or an entity that is not service to others you understand that all the proof in the world shall not save you from your own moment of time that will forever elude you as it is truly a moment of rebirth into a world without the matrix, and so many people make light of these experiences and that is a cause for disbelief for if you do cross paths with a being, you have trouble thinking of this experience much less coming on here and saying " I met a alien and it was beautiful" because the first time is terrifying and many upon many can not handle it, this is why so many minds fracture when thinking about the DOW because our human brain is never supposed to break the rules of this matrix.

because honestly there is no "Good" attention to be gained from talking of such things, only ridicule, yet people come here and they are ridiculed regardless, and they continue why? because they know that the idiots and fools sit on their thrones of gold dream of there shining new world order of Chaos and death, when those who have seen the beginning as it happened we know the dawn will bring one thing for these people, their final day.

Dr Anderson
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

"My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout." - Ian Andersen
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Majorion View Post
People like Cliff are just trying to capitalize on Project Camelot's reputation and fame.
He is just another nobody who wants to be somebody.
Ummm... for those of us who have been around for a while, Camelot is the new kid on the block. In terms of predictions about the future, Camelot hasn't exactly had a good track record.

--sjkted
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:23 PM   #34
gibonos
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

@Roman195

Quote:
dd
???

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Old 01-22-2010, 04:31 PM   #35
Roman195
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

Sorry, hit return instead of shift.


"There is no good and evil. It just is." Red Elk

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Old 01-22-2010, 05:33 PM   #36
Majorion
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by sjkted View Post
Ummm... for those of us who have been around for a while, Camelot is the new kid on the block. In terms of predictions about the future, Camelot hasn't exactly had a good track record.
And what exactly does this have to do with what I said?
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Web Bot = Spy Bot in my opinion, a violation of my Free Will if there is something on my system that I don’t know about or authorized. I simply don’t want it there, period.
I’m having trouble understanding this “infinite now” principle. If that’s the way it is in this density/dimension then we would be frozen infinitely, the way I understand that concept. The Buddhists’ were asked what time travel was like and their reply is,” It’s like standing still, with time flowing all around you.” To myself, that means you had to leave space/time (the particle function) and enter time/space (the wave function). That puts the past, present and future for the observer to see without moving. Quantum Mechanics has theories that help understand this, like wave/particle duality and Quantum entanglement. Electrons do not always stay around the nucleus in their energy orbits. Where do they go? Well they switch from a particle function to a wave function and instantly appear in another atom maybe across the cosmos and then come back to that same original atom. Einstein use to call this “Spooky action at great distances.” This “infinite now” might have been what it was like before the “Big Bang” if you believe that theory, for there are others, one has a “Big Bounce”. So it would be advisable if you want to time travel to stay in one place because if you leave you might not get back to this exact density and time. If you can Quantum Entanglement your whole being then I would say the skies the limit.
In Peace and Unity,
Roman
PS: CH would make a good lawyer and spy, but not a good Natural Philosopher.
In keylontic sciences this flashing in and out is called partiki phasing, the difference in the concept is that partikis are part of a bigger template which can be the morphogenetic field of a person, a plant, a world etc

The idea is that when partikis phase the go back to source to replenish themselves

The Tao teachings came from the original Cloister Dora Teura Plates that were given to humanity a long time ago

from the keylontic dictionary

(Also called Partiki Phasing Rhythms or Partiki Pulsation Rhythms- that is - rhythms of expansion and contraction of energy.)

Partiki Phasing is the process by which Partiki Units perpetually convert conscious energy into Bi-polar (Partika-Particum) Light Radiation Scalar-waves (expansion) and back into Omni-polar Sound Vibration Tri-tone (Partiki) Waves (contraction) is called Partiki Phasing.

Partiki Phasing is the process by which Partiki Units perpetually convert conscious energy into Bi-polar (Partika-Particum) Light Radiation Scalar-waves (expansion) and back into Omni-polar Sound Vibration Tri-tone (Partiki) Waves (contraction) is called Partiki Phasing.

Through perpetual cycles of Partiki Phasing, matter units "flash on" through fission, into Bi-polar Particle and Anti-particle manifestation build upon scalar-waves of Light Radiation, then "flash off" through fusion, into Omni-polar Ante-matter Sound Vibration, continually cycling energy between the manifest and non-manifest state.
unquote

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org
Cheers
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:05 PM   #38
gibonos
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

@Roman195
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Sorry, hit return instead of shift.
good I thought you meant dirty dancing

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The powers that be have tried to look at the future( it was assured them through “Looking Glass” maybe). Then the“looking glass’s” vision of the future started to change according to Dan B.. What could have happened? One thing, I suppose could have happened, Free Will! Here’s how I see it. Through the ages Free Will has been suppressed and the PTB choices were substituted for the Will of the people. It was easy to predict then, because their choices had the effect of Dogma (Am God said backwards). The new PTB seen a change in their master plan and verified through “Looking Glass” maybe. They started to panic.
whatever they have works always the same,
every time you look at the future you change it,
same with clif's reports, every time we or anybody else is reading the "future"
is changing attitude towards it and take action accordingly,
universe is much more powerful than looking glass or alta reports and will happen whatever is meant to happen, we have a choice though to alter the future,
but have to be aware of our thoughts first and focus on positive

I, for instance want the economic collapse to happen as quick as possible, I want earth changes to happen as quick as possible, cause I can't wait for what on the other side
of 2012, where I regard this date as a symbol not a date, because it can be tommorow, nobody knows.
Without a tragic, monumental events sheeple will not wake up... not gonna happen

gibonos
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

Does anyone else sense that at some point in camelot project the journalistic bite has gradually given way to promoting there personal philosophies ( re: Freedom Central interview) where in wilcock et al style have now become all seeing, all knowing gurus.

We are all here in the main because we love their interviews and recognise them as decent people, but we are not sheep. Bill and Kerry im sure would acknowledge and promore independent thought ( indeed they do) but i was more comfortable with the straight edgy no messing interviews of old.

All that said, i would miss Bill and Kerry v much if they stopped, and i dont really trust Cliff High.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:38 PM   #40
Zenbuoy
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Cool Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Majorion View Post
And what exactly does this have to do with what I said?
Clif was around before Camelot.
George is probably 120 years old and is an ET
They predicted 9/11.
In other words, if you reduce your report from hundred$ to $10 then most likely you are not trying to capitalize.

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Old 01-22-2010, 07:49 PM   #41
trainedobserver
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

High makes some very good points. Project Camelot's support of previously discredited people like Dan Burisch is an excellent example of what he is getting at in the article. Their total lack of fact checking is also painfully evident in things like their falling for the premise of the movie Fourth Kind which was a total fabrication.

I have always viewed Project Camelot as largely a faux-reality show and I have my reasons for doing so. That is to say it is a collection of disinformation agents, hoaxers, confidence men, and delusional individuals, along with the rare genuine article in here and there I think, pretty much by chance.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:24 PM   #42
Majorion
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Clif was around before Camelot.
Well if Cliff has "been around" longer than Camelot, then where's his forum, where are his whistleblowers, where's his conferences, where's his groundcrew?

Quote:
In other words, if you reduce your report from hundred$ to $10 then most likely you are not trying to capitalize.
Capitalizing may have nothing to do with money, in this case, Cliff is pulling people in his direction by dissing PC. Not very honorable is it?
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:25 PM   #43
Majorion
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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I have always viewed Project Camelot as largely a faux-reality show and I have my reasons for doing so. That is to say it is a collection of disinformation agents, hoaxers, confidence men, and delusional individuals, along with the rare genuine article in here and there I think, pretty much by chance.
My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?
"...the rare genuine article ... here and there ..."
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

I really like George Ure, and by inference Cliff High. I've heard him interviewed a few times and liked what I heard. The idea that we can predict the future, if in an albeit flaky way is incredibly exciting.

But when I step outside for a moment and consider that thought:

Do we really believe there is a way to predict the future?

I mean, really?

Really, really, really, really? For sure? 100%? You believe that?

Not totally surprising if then, the first thing you accurately predict with your machine would be the end of the human race - because what would be the point of having one ? Doesn't it rather eliminate the whole free will argument?


I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.

Who can say with 100% certainty that either spiritual ascension or giant wave sloshing will happen by 2012? For all we know, nothing will have happened.

Life has never proved me right so far, why should it start now?

Summer of Hell anyone?

K
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:16 PM   #46
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

I sent Clif's musings to Dr. Anderson and asked him what he would say in response - have not heard back from him yet but here's a chart from his site:

http://www.andersoninstitute.com/tim...chnologies.htm

Interesting site:
http://www.time-travelers.org/

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Old 01-22-2010, 09:36 PM   #47
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

Future Extrapolations based upon the past and present seem reasonable. Voyages into the past via the Akashic Records and Holographic Projections of past events may make it appear that one has time traveled. But from a non-scientific, non-ET, non-guru point of view...I am becoming increasingly skeptical regarding time travel. I really don't believe that we are being visited by Future Humans from 49,000 A.D. One more thing...absolute foreknowledge and freedom cannot peacefully coexist. Sometimes I think we live in an Insane Asylum and that the worst inmates are in charge. (Both Human and Non-Human) The Secret Government isn't holding press conferences...complete with truckloads of documents and photographs...revealing the Secrets of the Universe. So we have to do the best we can. Just listen to everyone and everything...and look for verifications and commonalities. A whistleblower with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...probably wouldn't survive the introduction at a conference or in an interview. Classified and Secret should mean something. The real deals have very short leashes...and masters with very big sticks. If I had inside information (which I don't)...I wouldn't do interviews. I wouldn't even post on the internet. I would very carefully feed information to people who were in a position to make a difference. I'd be sort of a Cosmic Deep Throat.

Namaste

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Old 01-22-2010, 09:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

response to kulas post, not sure where the quote box went

I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.

Who can say with 100% certainty that either spiritual ascension or giant wave sloshing will happen by 2012? For all we know, nothing will have happened.

Life has never proved me right so far, why should it start now?

Summer of Hell anyone?

K[/QUOTE]

Hey Kula i got an old canoe you can patch up, very cheap

enjoying your posts
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:45 PM   #49
chitty
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by cantaloupe View Post
B&K are what, three years in?
Their having failed to try to cross check witnesses who are in disagreement with each other, to make some qualitative judgements about what is credible and what is hooey really disturbs me. It's like a big and very weedy garden. I know we all have to discern for ourselves, but it's their stated mission to try to make some sense of this whole jumble and so far it's just all been wheeled out and dumped on the ground with some of the more plausible bits presented on the same level as bits of complete shillery hucksterism and self promotion.
Usually what passes for skepticism is the practice of setting out to discredit an idea and examining it with hostility. What Clif is talking about is entertaining an idea without full acceptance and then trying to poke holes in it. Very different.
If a whistleblower will no longer speak after a little cross referencing or fact checking or some other sort of call to account, then they don't deserve the attention
This is what Camelot so desperately needs. It's probably a tightrope walk, but it should be done- this stew is starting to stink.
I agree totally. I thank B&K for this site but I no longer access Camelot. Too much hooey to take seriously.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:09 PM   #50
sjkted
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Default Re: CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Majorion View Post
And what exactly does this have to do with what I said?
I'm saying the discussion has always been on the facts. Saying that Cliff is trying to discredit this person or steal this person's thunder is just a diversion. This isn't about loyalty. It's about finding out what is real. IMO, Cliff has gotten much more notoriety for some of his predictions that he has called.

--sjkted
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