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Old 07-26-2009, 04:34 AM   #176
BROOK
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

I cannot open it...I deleted it. I don't want anymore pm's I just want some answers...if you choose not to state your vision for all here to see..that is your choice

I will not attack you, I will listen with open ears.
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:39 AM   #177
TtC
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I am posting this as a courtesy:

Hello Brook,

It seems I have caused some confusion.

Firstly, no matter what, you cannot control what others think or do. That is what I meant by quoting Crowley when he said “do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.” The only thing I can do is control myself. Whatever anyone else does, you have no control over it.

As for the reference about cataclysm and the NWO, I find that, yes, there is only a stream of well-being that flows. I do not wish for such things to happen and will not attract such things to myself, but others may. I cannot help that. My intentions for communities is to move away from fear. I want them to be an alternative to current society where we can learn and grow with like minded people in order to move our evolution forward. I know you want to stay in the city or what have you, and I do not object to this. I have the resources to create such a community for those who wish to go there and I am the option is available to them.

The property is no where near the Bakken Formation region, it's actually in west Montana away from that. I used to work in the oil field in Alberta and there is no reason why I would go back to the same situation. I am trying to get away from the use of oil, but it is good for the production of plastics and lubricants. Corn is being tested for the same thing as I recall.

This is a very large project. I have, indeed, been working on this since I was young. Just something I was compelled to do and I have written nearly ten thousand pages and five million words on how the society will function including logistics for continuance. As you may have seen, Artvision has a good start and it is more complicated than most think.

I know you have had some rough times, as have many others, but I feel no reason why we cannot work things out. If you would like the Abraham material, you are more than welcome to it.

I will be reiterating my proposal with some clarity, later, for people to look at.

Thank you,

TtC


Mind you, this is not up for debate.
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:49 AM   #178
BROOK
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

Thank you for the offer of the Abraham - Hicks material...however I have most of it already. Been acquanted with the materian for quite some time now. From the very first book to the present, and many Cd's as well...very good material..and highly recommended

By "mind you this is not up for debate"..does that mean you are unwilling to discuss some of the pressing questions that many here have...and instead of confrontation, Just simple question and answer time about some of the areas of concern?
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:51 AM   #179
TtC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOK View Post

By "mind you this is not up for debate"..does that mean you are unwilling to discuss some of the pressing questions that many here have...and instead of confrontation, Just simple question and answer time about some of the areas of concern?
I meant the debate as the comments should be between you and me.

I did switch on the save out-going messages though in case something like this did happen.

I will answer areas of concern and whatnot, but I will not engage in arguing. If I stop answering a certain inquirer then it would be for this reason.

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Old 07-26-2009, 05:28 AM   #180
BROOK
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As I stated, Ttc..I will not attack you and I will listen with open ears, and mind...all you have to to do is state your position on the concerns

Be honest with me now Ttc..you have a confrontational way of screening. As several have expressed....this might be part of the biggest problem with the realization of your project.

Do you at least agree, that that might be why so many here might have been rubbed the wrong way in the beginning? I know it was a huge red flag with me.

It could be the largest part of the reason so many here are suspect, and question your motives....

I know you are young, and maybe dealing with the public is not your thing...I myself deal with the public on a daily basis...it is my job to sell myself first...and This is not intended as criticism...and it is not in any way an attack on you...many people do not have that skill...it took me a while to learn it.

I used to be a performer while I was in college...and getting on a stage was the hardest thing I ever had to do...however I overcame the fear, and finally learned to cope.... then the skill grew in leaps and bounds...sort of like Abraham-hicks style...the law of attraction set in and took off.

But this is not about me ...back to the whys and what evers....


In the screening process..what were you looking for in an individual?

Last edited by BROOK; 07-26-2009 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:35 AM   #181
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

To all who it may concern,

I like debate and am for it. What I am not for is the increasing levels of innuendo, character assault and blatant aggression that has been witnessed recently on this forum.

I am simply asking you - pleading with you actually - to stop doing it.

A..
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:42 AM   #182
BROOK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
To all who it may concern,

I like debate and am for it. What I am not for is the increasing levels of innuendo, character assault and blatant aggression that has been witnessed recently on this forum.

I am simply asking you - pleading with you actually - to stop doing it.

A..
Anchor..I am being very civil...and only asking questions., if it is me you are speaking about..it fact it was invited by one and the same. I will not be breaking any rules around here
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:50 AM   #183
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

How to Win Friends and Influence People
Author: Dale Carnegie
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:03 AM   #184
Wormhole
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Ttc,
Hi there. I request that you openly publish the preamble. Thank you.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

ps. When ever you can.

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Old 07-26-2009, 06:08 AM   #185
Anchor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOK View Post
if it is me you are speaking about.
There is no need for me to single people out.

A..
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:15 AM   #186
BROOK
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

sorry to offend it was not my intention

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Old 07-26-2009, 06:37 AM   #187
Anchor
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOK View Post
There was a severe problem with physical abuse there on the mentally retarded..and they would hit them in the solar plexus so as not to leave a mark...My mother put a stop to it, by exposing it.
Brook,

I've read many of your excellent posts on this forum - and when you announced you were leaving I read a few of them again. So I know you understand the difference between off-topic and on-topic. Your story is somewhat off-topic - but you posted it regardless. Assuming there is purpose to it, then I can only assume that by implication and in the context of this thread, are you stating that your purpose is to stop TtC from abusing people ?

Isn't that a loaded proposition - don't you see how that accuses TtC of harmful intent? Was that your purpose? If not then what exactly was it?

Don't you think that its possible that people are somewhat bothered by the oblique way you are approaching this inquiry you pursue TtC with?

Do you really think people here even need that kind of help?

I think people here deserve a few things:

1) Respect
2) Tolerance
3) Honesty
4) A hearing
5) More respect

A..
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:48 AM   #188
BROOK
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,,,

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Old 07-26-2009, 06:55 AM   #189
Anchor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOK View Post
Stop ttc fro abusing people....how can you see that in what I just wrote? It has nothing to do with him at all...that is obsurd
Almost every post you made in the TtC related threads appeared to be aimed at "exposing" TtC in some way - or on the original thread outright accusation.

That is the context you set for my interpretation of your message.

Now if there is anything to expose then this is justified.

Is there?

Anyway thanks for clarifying your position.

A..
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:00 AM   #190
BROOK
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I guess for the recoud ttc..that was not intended, or directed at you in any way...it was just an explanation, addressing the post about segregating from society that was brought up much early on in this thread.

It would be along the lines of topic here as to weather start a radient zone, or stay and hold the fort down I guess...I'm a little thrown off on this.

Again... this has nothing to do with ttc..and only to do with why those might stay and create their onw safty zone, as best possible



I guess also off topic

I will remove it

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Old 07-26-2009, 07:29 AM   #191
BROOK
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWolf View Post
No one is saying you cannot prepare yourself and your family for trying times. Hell, I prepare for the winter as I know the weather can be funny. I make sure there is extra supplies in the house in case of power outages, etc. People with common sense would usually make sure they have some extra supplies around.

Why would I want to segregate people? I'd rather integrate than segregate. However by building your own community, that in and of itself is segregating. All of the like minded individuals are all living there helping each other, etc. while the rest of the world looks in.

Now if this were an open commune where anyone, like minded or not can come and go and share in everything..that is different. How would it be any different than living in a gated community? So you'll have programs to let the outsiders in. So all of those other individuals who weren't lucky enough to snag a spot in the program will all just be turned away? Too bad? Soo sorry? Come back some other time?


Working on oneself is a continuing process. Just like learning is a continuing process. As you work upon yourself, you can still try to help others around you. It only stops when you want it to stop.

Winter Wolf
This is the topic I was addressing...so sorry if I ever offended anyone....I guess forums are not intended for me..

Ttc best of luck in your building of community...if I have unjustly accused you..I am so sorry....I actually this time wanted to help you share your vision...as I believe you just are not very good at explaning to the members what is is you intend..
Someone just told my I am taking this all to personally...well I will humble myself and say...you're right...sorry Anchor you were so offended..it was not my intention.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:57 AM   #192
TtC
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Question: What were you looking for in an individual?

Answer: We are looking for people who are willing to contribute to a community with the goal of creating a better society with like minded people and have the mission statement and basic premises resonate with them.

Statment: I request that you openly publish the preamble.

Counter-statement: The link below is the Fiscal Preamble. It has been changed from the original fiscal gist that was posted elsewhere in order to clarify some points. As it states at the beginning, it is by no means a be all or end all. It is to give a basic idea for those concerned about money and whether or not is will cost them anything. Short answer: it's free.

Fiscal Preamble

I will make a general statement about segregation and integration and my feelings about it.

I do not wish to segregate anyone, but in creating a community is may look as if we do not want to be with the rest of humanity. I would say one of the greater concerns is about self-sufficiency. In most metropolitan areas, it is somewhat hard to even grow your own vegetables year round to support yourself, let alone have a dairy cow. There are many people, not just those who want a different place to live, but those just looking for better quality food. I think that is why most farmer's markets exist. That, and supporting local growers. In a way, yes, it is segregating, but others have the opportunity to do exactly as you do. I would be more than happy to integrate people into the community if they wanted. I don't think the majority of society would like to move buildings to make way for garden plots so we could integrate suburbia as a whole. We cannot wake everyone up. Some of you may have experienced it. The more you try the more the person resists. They will come around in their own time, but some just don't want to be awake. We are segregated now, and not just by our philosophies, but by income brackets, religions, races, gender, sexual orientation, the fields of study we pursue, the jobs we work at. We all hang out in groups and if someone of unlike interests comes by, most will steer clear because they don't like the topic of conversation. I don't think there will ever be a full integration, we are all different and that contrast makes the world go round. If we were all the same, it would be a dull and boring place.

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Old 07-26-2009, 07:59 AM   #193
Wormhole
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

Thanks!
Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

Sorry, I had to laugh about the line..."Those of you who are worried about material wealth and preservation."

Thanks again for the preamble. I wish you only the best. I would like to order a copy of the pages. I will be in touch for that. Any other info you would like to share will be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Wormhole; 07-26-2009 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:20 AM   #194
artvision
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Dears,

Up to now, here on thread, I observed three major main approaches, to the idea of safety retreating :

A. The preparation as best as possible, at your existing home location, which is, of course, located in "civilized" world meaning a city/town of some sort?

B. The constructing of the Radiant Zone (RZ) by someone with financial means, something like a condo, or furnished apartments waiting to receive their tenants?

C. The construction of a RZ by a cooperative of each respective member contributing, by buying his piece of land, somehow neighbouring one with each other, then using the common powers (financial, work force) to construct for each memeber a house/shelter of the independent lot of each other, being more cheaply, than a individual approach; and more prone a company will move heavy machinery in a very remote place. By this, we are constructing like a small village where everybody can have their own piece of property but will act as a single entity in protecting, working to obtain food, resources, etc...

Now there is also to clarify the basis on which, people are let in, into these RZ after they are ready - by any of the method B, C (A is not feasible because is your own house):

For B and C by methods of making:

1) The people let in, accepted, by the entity which constructed that RZ on some kind of agreement of some sort (case B) or by the cooperative agreement between the StartUp-ers (case C)

2) After the initial population of the retreat, regardless, B or C method new admission will be:

2.1. The next people to come are under careful scrutiny of the existing members and their admission is based of a sort of "approval" from the majority/unanimity of the existing members and they must abode to a certain set of retreat rules

2.2. Or, let inside anybody, anyhow, from anywhere, without any agreement nor responsibility of any sort, anybody can leave, can do whatever, at the best of the capacity

Did I understand correctly, correct me if I'm wrong?!

Last edited by artvision; 07-26-2009 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:42 AM   #195
Wormhole
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

Though I think Ttc will/should be able to address these reasonings, I have to say that all these questions and more should be posed and probed to the best of our abilities.

Now the community that I am working with does have a few rules that have been stated:

No guns
Participation: planting, harvesting, upkeep of your lodging and communal lodging.
includes: Being present for council meetings, being a equal part of the council, communicating your views using the premisses of Non-violent communication.
Being service to others.
Honesty.
Tolerance of others differences and cultural choices.

We have a manual outlining the plan of the community which I will download and share.

This is a spiritual place, not based in a fear paradigm. Though we think from the head, we also think from the heart. There is a lot of work to be done.

Everyone needs to think about what they want. What they are willing to do. Who they are. And not be in judgement of this. All answers really do lead to God. There is no separation here. You can live in a city and be true of heart or live in another way and feel that is your destiny.

It's all good.

Different societies will begin and change and meld... our only constant "change" is always our teacher. To become a part of any community will change that community just through your joining it. Energy moves...

Take heart... Be your own community first with a centered heart and a love for all. Then your truth will resonate no matter where you are!

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:55 AM   #196
artvision
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post
Though I think Ttc will/should be able to address these reasonings, I have to say that all these questions and more should be posed and probed to the best of our abilities.

Now the community that I am working with does have a few rules that have been stated:

No guns
Participation: planting, harvesting, upkeep of your lodging and communal lodging.
includes: Being present for council meetings, being a equal part of the council, communicating your views using the premisses of Non-violent communication.
Being service to others.
Honesty.
Tolerance of others differences and cultural choices.

We have a manual outlining the plan of the community which I will download and share.

This is a spiritual place, not based in a fear paradigm. Though we think from the head, we also think from the heart. There is a lot of work to be done.
Wormhole, that you say is fantastic. We will be very glad if you share with us the community manual outliner.

All the best!
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:57 AM   #197
Anchor
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

I too envisage a community.

It will be suitable for those that choose to remain embodied through the ascension process. The members will be people who find it by following their hearts and via the workings of the law of attraction. Its construction will be manifest by the focussed intent of all those who take part. In keeping with the law of allowance, there will be no rules.

Love

A..
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:16 AM   #198
TtC
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I will agree with Wormhole on the premise that it is not fear-based but a spiritual place.

The community I propose is closer to your B statement. I will elaborate. The way I have designed a lot of the community has to do more with physical mechanical integration of systems that are interconnected to help the community and reduce its environmental impact. That being said, statement A is not valid and statement C seems a little unfair to me. I want to offer everyone an equal opportunity whereas statement C is a kind of "fend for yourself within a loosely knit group" kind of thing. Whoever has the most money gets the nicest retreat. At the moment, the housing arrangements in my community are on a tell us you're interested in coming and we'll build you a house kind of basis. A different scenario would be tomorrow I get a massive influx of people who are all welcome and we have five hundred people there. We would be more inclined to convert to a loosely apartmentish type arrangement. I actually have this covered, but I'm keeping it short.

Number 1, Case B:

I have proposed a variation of this in order to keep everyone level. If everyone agrees to the same thing, then there are no loop holes per se. I wouldn't say there are strict rules as of yet, because so many factors are population dependent, the "basic premises" give everyone something to work with. At a later time and with more people a formal charter may be drafted, but in doing so, clauses must be written in for the evolution of the community, the people, the society, and the charter itself. I think Case C would have several things in common with Case B. To clarify, I have passed the premises through more than just myself and they were revised and edited to be more accommodating.

Number 2.1

I think there would have to be a certain amount of scrutiny. In such a situation there are liable to be people of unsound mind and well as those with malicious intent.

Number 2.2

Letting anyone in with no responsibility placed on them could cause harm to a community. You could have twenty people come in and eat all your food and leave in three days while stealing your stuff. A drastic example, but in such a scenario, there are bound to be those who go Mad Max and turn into looters and whatnot.

With either of number two, a certain amount of discretion should be employed, but you have to look at it from a logical standpoint because after a catastrophe there is a likelihood that some of the residents will allow fear to be a dominantly deciding factor when faced with a large number of refugees.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:44 AM   #199
artvision
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TtC View Post
I will agree with Wormhole on the premise that it is not fear-based but a spiritual place.

The community I propose is closer to your B statement. I will elaborate. The way I have designed a lot of the community has to do more with physical mechanical integration of systems that are interconnected to help the community and reduce its environmental impact. That being said, statement A is not valid and statement C seems a little unfair to me. I want to offer everyone an equal opportunity whereas statement C is a kind of "fend for yourself within a loosely knit group" kind of thing. Whoever has the most money gets the nicest retreat. At the moment, the housing arrangements in my community are on a tell us you're interested in coming and we'll build you a house kind of basis. A different scenario would be tomorrow I get a massive influx of people who are all welcome and we have five hundred people there. We would be more inclined to convert to a loosely apartmentish type arrangement. I actually have this covered, but I'm keeping it short.

Number 1, Case B:

I have proposed a variation of this in order to keep everyone level. If everyone agrees to the same thing, then there are no loop holes per se. I wouldn't say there are strict rules as of yet, because so many factors are population dependent, the "basic premises" give everyone something to work with. At a later time and with more people a formal charter may be drafted, but in doing so, clauses must be written in for the evolution of the community, the people, the society, and the charter itself. I think Case C would have several things in common with Case B. To clarify, I have passed the premises through more than just myself and they were revised and edited to be more accommodating.

Number 2.1

I think there would have to be a certain amount of scrutiny. In such a situation there are liable to be people of unsound mind and well as those with malicious intent.

Number 2.2

Letting anyone in with no responsibility placed on them could cause harm to a community. You could have twenty people come in and eat all your food and leave in three days while stealing your stuff. A drastic example, but in such a scenario, there are bound to be those who go Mad Max and turn into looters and whatnot.

With either of number two, a certain amount of discretion should be employed, but you have to look at it from a logical standpoint because after a catastrophe there is a likelihood that some of the residents will allow fear to be a dominantly deciding factor when faced with a large number of refugees.
Thank you TtC, you are the first answer to my post, also your insights are very well appreciated.

Last edited by artvision; 07-26-2009 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:48 AM   #200
artvision
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

I added the Introductory word, which has been wiped out when passing from outliner (it was a note in there) to the word processor, being very tired after working for 2 days as visual and another for outlining, adding notes etc.

As TtC said, in one of the previous posts, who thinks this is easy business, making a RZ, is not truthful with himself. If so much work just to line up the titles of chapters and subchapters only, imagine what will be to fill in with information (proper and verified), not mention the fact of bring such project to a working reality!
You can read it, added in the same Radiant Zone Guide post at PAGE 7 of this thread:


INTRODUCTORY WORD

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...t=15480&page=7

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