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Old 08-03-2009, 07:40 PM   #276
Vidya Moksha
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

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Originally Posted by TtC View Post
It depends what is meant by "toxic." It is a matter of perspective. It would most likely be toxic to humans and most mammals as well as fish, but not to worms, bacteria, some insects, and the like.
Of course. I wasnt sure of the depth of inquiry in the first question...its toxic in the sense that it contains gut bacteria (eg E.coli) which are directly harmful to humans and other vertebrates if ingested. The usual source of ingestion is polluted water supply. It is also possible for some nasty viruses to be present.
In another sense it is 'toxic' because it has a high BOD and COD (Biological and Chemical Oxygen Demand) which means bacteria and certain chemicals 'digest' (or oxidize) the faecal matter, and in so doing the use up all available oxygen, which is why most aquatic organisms suffer, many are extremely sensitive to reduced oxygen levels.
On the other hand, many animals thrive in such conditions, they see the sewage as food and they dont mind the reduced oxygen so much.
The 'toxic' elements are contained within the sewage water, so when this contaminated water seeps, or leaks from the digester it spreads to the surrounding area. This is no real problem unless local groundwater is contaminated in the process.
Mixing sewage with water is always potentially hazardous, and always wasteful of water. Dry toilets are the better solution, i believe.

Last edited by Vidya Moksha; 08-03-2009 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:49 PM   #277
TtC
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If done properly, there should be no leaks from the digester, whatsoever. And I have removed the hazardous issues from my system.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #278
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If done properly, there should be no leaks from the digester, whatsoever. And I have removed the hazardous issues from my system.
I dont know the system. Surely the water is just a carrier of the faecal matter, and its the faecal material that produces the methane. But the digester must be a finite size that will soon be filled with water from the toilets? what then? surely there must be an overflow of some kind, or the water must be separated at some point in the process, and this will be contaminated water...of course this could be easily piped to a reed bed...
In China they use dry toilets, then they manually transfer the faecal matter to a pit, which I suppose is the 'digester' in that system. When the pit material is spent they ship it onto the land for fertilizer and start a new pit. But this system is labour intensive and potentially hazardous as raw faecal material is constantly being handled.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:06 PM   #279
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I dont know the system. Surely the water is just a carrier of the faecal matter, and its the faecal material that produces the methane. But the digester must be a finite size that will soon be filled with water from the toilets? what then? surely there must be an overflow of some kind, or the water must be separated at some point in the process, and this will be contaminated water...of course this could be easily piped to a reed bed...
In China they use dry toilets, then they manually transfer the faecal matter to a pit, which I suppose is the 'digester' in that system. When the pit material is spent they ship it onto the land for fertilizer and start a new pit. But this system is labour intensive and potentially hazardous as raw faecal material is constantly being handled.
Of course it's potentially hazardous, but it seems everyone wants to think inside the box, still. I, on the other hand, have thought of something entirely different.

It took me six months to design my system and another three for a working prototype. Now it's patent pending. What is more than just a carrier, it's life.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:13 PM   #280
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Hi Vidya, what you describer is what they call a batch process, which is labor intensive. The other is a continuous load process, which is what TtC is describing, I believe. Sounds like an ideal biological machine/process. The end product of the process has to be biologically safe for humans to be released into the environment.

It was good to have this discussion. Thanks to all the post contributors.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:26 PM   #281
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Friends,

I am back and so pleased to find this thread so alive and filled with strong positive energy.
Great to see new people posting here .
Looking at it from the outside I see hearts at work here and clean minds .
The feeling I get is that everyone is fitting in the right place and that was is being built
is going upwards spirit, mind and body aligned .
This alignment in itself everyone working from his heartfelt truth including all is a sign
that a shift has already taken place .
Blessed be your journey and thank you for being who you are.

mudra
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:01 PM   #282
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We cannot stop in our progress with organizations and systems either orthodox or metaphysical for they are sectional, sectarian, and teach a doctrine that is more or less involved with the idea of separations. They are only steps in the process of man's discovery of himself. We cannot stop at any point without becoming orthodox. That prevents further progress until we break away.

- Baird T. Spaulding
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:19 PM   #283
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Quote:
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- Baird T. Spaulding
funny thing-this morning his set of 5 books
found their way, from the book shelf to the floor -
thanks for sharing this quote mudra
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:18 PM   #284
rhythm
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The solution is simple

get out of the system ....

and show that it can be done ......to the rest ...

llive in balance and harmony

live off the land return to

the connection with the earth

give and recieve

give respect back to the real giver and provider

you know the lies

know live the truth

got eny better ideas !!!!!

i here some say they will stick with it

will not leave the rest


i wish them luck as they will need it ....

imagine being free ...

show it can be done ... be the example

so others can see hey there is a way off this wheel ...


then who will be there to be led like lambs ...

no slaves no masters (wake up calls )
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:22 PM   #285
rhythm
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Sorry but its time to get off the pot

and our hairy fairy a****s.....

yada yada yada !!!
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:47 PM   #286
Carmen
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Im not ready yet

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Old 08-06-2009, 12:19 AM   #287
Anthony4acre
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Default Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

I was watching Ajazeera the other day & came across what some people are doing to secure the future of mankind.
check out this
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:50 AM   #288
rhythm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythm View Post
Sorry but its time to get off the pot

and our hairy fairy a****s.....

yada yada yada !!!

She understands that the universe
is forever out of control
and that trying to dominate events
goes against the current of the Tao ...
there is no fight left
What ever !!!
realy !!!
is whatever ..............
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #289
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Essence And Form

It is absolutely vital in a community to understand, really understand, the distinction between essence and form. The substitution of one for the other is so often a pitfall. Purpose, vision, and reason for being together remain purely at the level of essence. How that manifests in form is almost irrelevant. Things are going to work out fine if there is a clear link between that essence and the forms that emerge from it, whether at the level of projects, or architectural style, or governmental processes, or job distribution, whatever. But when there is a muddying - when the focus is put on forms, unlinking them from the driving spirit behind it all - the problems emerge.

- Joe Dominguez

If you don't have the capacity to step back into that place of essence, you'll surely lock horns over things like whether or not we should compost our kitchen scraps. That kind of issue is going to be your downfall. People have to have the capacity to step back from their position, what they think is right, to a place where they are all attempting to see the highest. That's an essential skill for dealing with other people in community - to let go of being right.

- Vicki Robin

Loving kindness
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:02 PM   #290
mudra
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CHIEF SEATTLE: 1855

Important roots can be found in the
original cultures of North America

Some of our most influential roots are the original cultures of this land. The following letter, sent by Chief Seattle of the Dwamish Tribe in Washington to President Pierce in 1855, illustrates the dignity, wisdom, and continuing relevance of this native continental vision.



THE GREAT CHIEF in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. The Great Chief also sends us words of friendship and good will. This is kind of him, since we know he has little need of our friendship in return. But we will consider your offer, for we know if we do not so the white man may come with guns and take our land. What Chief Seattle says you can count on as truly as our white brothers can count on the return of the seasons. My words are like the stars - they do not set.

How can you buy or sell the sky - the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. Yet we do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us? We will decide in our time. Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing, and every humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people.

We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's graves and his children's birthright is forgotten. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the redman. But perhaps it is because the redman is a savage and does not understand.

There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to listen to the leaves of spring or the rustle of insect wings. But perhaps because I am a savage and do not understand - the clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lovely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around a pond at night? The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind itself cleansed by a mid-day rain, or scented by a pinõn pine: The air is precious to the redman. For all things share the same breath - the beasts, the trees, and the man. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days, he is numb to the stench.

If I decide to accept, I will make one condition. The white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers. I am a savage and I do not understand any other way. I have seen thousands of rotting buffaloes on the prairie left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive. What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beast also happens to the man.

All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth.

Our children have seen their fathers humbled in defeat. Our warriors have felt shame. And after defeat they turn their days in idleness and contaminate their bodies with sweet food and strong drink. It matters little where we pass the rest of our days - they are not many. A few more hours, a few more winters, and none of the children of the great tribes that once lived on this earth, or that roamed in small bands in the woods will remain to mourn the graves of the people once as powerful and hopeful as yours.

One thing we know that the white man may one day discover. Our God is the same God. You may think that you own him as you wish to own our land, but you cannot. He is the Body of man, and his compassion is equal for the redman and the white. This earth is precious to him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its Creator. The whites, too, shall pass - perhaps sooner than other tribes. Continue to contaminate your bed, and you will one night suffocate in your own waste. When the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses all tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the view of the ripe hills blotted by the talking wires, where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone. And what is it to say goodbye to the swift and the hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.

We might understand if we knew what it was the white man dreams, what hopes he describes to his children on long winter nights, what visions he burns into their minds, so they will wish for tomorrow. But we are savages. The white man's dreams are hidden from us. And because they are hidden, we will go our own way. If we agree, it will be to secure your reservation you have promised.

There perhaps we may live out our brief days as we wish. When the last redman has vanished from the earth, and the memory is only the shadow of a cloud passing over the prairie, these shores and forests will still hold the spirits of my people, for they love this earth as the newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. If we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it as we have cared for it. Hold in your memory the way the land is as you take it. And with all your strength, with all your might, and with all your heart - preserve it for your children, and love it as God loves us all. One thing we know - our God is the same. This earth is precious to him. Even the white man cannot escape the common destiny.

Loving kindness
mudra
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:07 PM   #291
mudra
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A look at the culture through people's diverse
attitudes, needs, wants, beliefs, and demographics


History is not the only way to try to probe the roots of our culture's vision. The following excerpt (reprinted with permission) from a recent report by the VALS Group at SRI International (Menlo Park, CA 94025) suggests some of the current diversity within our culture. A more extensive discussion of the VALS research is in The Nine American Lifestyles, by Arnold Mitchell, published by Macmillian.

VALS - short for values and lifestyles - is a way of viewing people on the basis of their attitudes, needs, wants, beliefs, and demographics. The VALS program was created by SRI International in 1978 in an attempt to "put people" into the thinking of those of us trying to understand the trends of our times - in the marketplace, economically, politically, sociologically, and humanly. The approach is holistic, drawing on insight and many sources of data to develop a comprehensive framework for characterizing the ways of life of Americans. Conceptually, VALS owes a major debt to the findings of developmental psychology. Our initial speculations have now been extensively confirmed, honed, and extended in field research. The system is currently being applied in many areas of business and is evoking interest in circles as diverse as sociology, politics, law, education, and medicine.

A basic tool of the VALS program is the VALS typology. This typology is divided into four major categories, with a total of nine lifestyles. These are:

Need-Driven
-Survivor lifestyle
-Sustainer lifestyle
Outer-Directed
-Belonger lifestyle
-Emulator lifestyle
-Achiever lifestyle
Inner-Directed
-I-Am-Me lifestyle
-Experiential lifestyle
-Societally Conscious lifestyle
Combined Outer- and Inner-Directed
-Integrated lifestyle
It should be understood from the start that these lifestyle categories are not fixed and immutable. Many people grow from one level to another as children, as adolescents, and as adults. Some very few may start at the bottom and reach the top within a lifetime, but far more common is movement of a level or two.

The VALS typology is hierarchical. The prime development thrust is from Need-Driven through Outer- Directed and Inner-Directed phases to a joining of Outer- and Inner-Direction. These major transitions are seen as crucial way-posts in the movement of an individual (or a society) from immaturity to full maturity. Three of the four major developmental categories are subdivided into lifestyle phases representing stages of advancement within the main category.

By "maturity," we specifically mean psychological maturity. Very generally, psychological maturation is marked by a progression from partial toward full realization of one's potential. It involves a steady widening of perspectives and concerns and a steady deepening of the inner reference points consulted in making important decisions. Thus, the role of habit and "stock answers" abates as a person matures, and the person becomes increasingly more complex and self-expressive in a values sense.

This hierarchy should be thought of as a nested model, with each stage "burying," as it were, previous stages. This means that an individual's totality - like the layers of an onion - consists of inner "spheres" of values relating to stages of development that often date back to childhood or adolescence. Hence, the more developed a person is, the more complex his or her value structure and the more diverse the range of value-based reactions. This is why highly developed people often identify with many - even all - of the VALS levels: They are all of them!

In the paragraphs that follow, we have tried to describe the psychological essence of each segment of the typology and, in so doing, to provide a feeling for the widening concerns and multiplying values of people as they move through the typology.

Read further:
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC03/SRIVALS.htm

Loving kindness
mudra
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:45 PM   #292
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I've always like the idea of a currency based on an hour of work. It's used in some communities. Looks like this has evolved into a time bank:

Time Banks Weave Community One Hour at a Time
For every hour you spend doing something for someone in your community, you earn one Time Dollar. Then you have a Time Dollar to spend on having someone do something for you. It's that simple. Yet it also has profound effects. Time Banks change neighborhoods and whole communities. Time Banking is a social change movement in 22 countries and six continents.

http://www.timebanks.org/

Any comments on this use in communities?
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:18 PM   #293
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Time Banking is based on the following five core values :
Assets: We are all assets. Every human being has something to contribute.

Redefining Work: Some work is beyond price.
Work has to be redefined to value whatever it takes to raise healthy children, build strong families, revitalize neighborhoods, make democracy work, advance social justice, make the planet sustainable. That kind of work needs to be honored, recorded and rewarded.

Reciprocity: Helping works better as a two-way street.

Social Networks: We need each other.
Networks are stronger than individuals. People helping each other reweave communities of support, strength & trust. Community is built upon sinking roots, building trust, creating networks. Special relationships are built on commitment.

Respect: Every human being matters.
Respect underlies freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and everything we value. Respect supplies the heart and soul of democracy. When respect is denied to anyone, we all are injured. We must respect where people are in the moment, not where we hope they will be at some future point.
It seems to me that these values represent key principles that should inspire us and be taken into account when writing a Radiant Zone charter.

Ovsalf
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:58 PM   #294
mudra
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Although it's of each individual 's responsability to raise himself up as a conscious being working as a team of like minded people focusing on the same purpose will create a greater impact than to work by own's own. If we consider it a desirable thing for the society to change and progress than we must be open enough to accept these changes that take place within her and be a motor of these changes. It's is not a matter of throwing away the society at large but rather to reflect on it , draw conclusions from experience and give it a new stirr .We have arrived at that marvellous point in time where a conscious choice can be made to live anew would we want to . The current society has evolved to a point of introducing so much pressure in our individual lives that we tend to forget who we really are and what we are here for . What is so special about these current times is that despite the burden we carry on our shoulders awakening is taking place . Imagine there was a city where people would eat organic food everyday, where children would be raised with a good sense of spirituality and wisdom , where you could work less and have more time to share with your relatives and friends, where there was no criminality and people from the youngest to the oldest could live harmoniously with each other in respect of mother earth and all living things .. where would you go ? These " cities " can be build and then one can become two and so on until the entire earth is a decent place to live in. In the same way as one radiant individual is of benefit to his immediate surroundings, one radiant community will be of benefit to a much wider spectrum.
I may not come back here after this incarnation but I would love to leave behind me the premises of a better world for those who follow me to live into .

Loving kindness
mudra

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Old 08-12-2009, 03:16 AM   #295
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I have come across an Online Intentional Communities Directory which lists approx. 340 Ecovillages all over the world (many in the U.S.) which are either established and looking for new members or in the process of being formed. Many are seeking to create a sustainable lifestyle. Perhaps this can be of help to anyone looking to find a suitable community to join or a place where they may list a community they have started and would like to expand.

You can find the list at this link:
http://directory.ic.org/records/ecovillages.php

This website also provides other valuable information and resources that may help or inspire budding new communities.

In humility and service,
--Cosmic Dancer
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:44 AM   #296
mudra
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When the sun rises, I go to work.
When the sun goes down I take my rest,
I dig the well from which I drink,
I farm the soil which yields my food,
I share creation, Kings can do no more.

- Chinese Proverb, 2500 B.C.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:53 AM   #297
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Where ever we choose to live

let love and commpasion

be the guide........



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Old 08-17-2009, 04:14 PM   #298
mudra
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We can make build a better world !

Loving kindness
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:15 PM   #299
mudra
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A New End - a New Beginning

John L. Petersen

...

So, what to do in the face of unprecedented change? Two specific things come to mind:

Plan for the transition – Start to think now about how you’re going to provide for yourself and those who are important to you in a time when many things don’t work the way that always have in the past. Dmitry Orlov talks about some options in his above-mentioned talk and book. There are many websites and books on this subject.
Key Concept: Cooperation You can’t do this alone. Start to work together with like-minded individuals to sustain yourself – regardless of whether your concerns are food, water, shelter, transportation or finances.
Start thinking about the new world – Now is the time to begin contemplating the design of the new world. Governments should be doing this. Companies should start skunk works. Big international organizations should put it on their agendas.
Here’s the catch. This might not happen. Personally, I think that if there is any one person that has the potential to at least soften this transition it is Barack Obama. As I’ve suggested, he will have his hands full just trying to get the underlying people and institutions to think differently and act fast enough, but if anyone has the chance to pull it off, it would be him. Already he’s getting government to move faster and in more substantive ways than any of his predecessors. It may be, by the way, that he will be the best guy to wind down the old system and reconstitute a new one. It’s all of the other folks running the government that I’d be concerned about – the ones who continue to see the world as it used to be.

There are any number of reasons why this scenario might not manifest itself, not least of which is that there will be many thousands, if not millions of people who will be working very hard to assure that the system doesn’t come apart (but then, they may be doing the wrong things).

Seems to me, therefore, that flexibility and permeability (allowing new ideas to get through) are of critical importance here. Remember the first law of Discordianism: “Convictions cause convicts”. Whatever you believe imprisons you.

So, stay loose. The winners need to transcend, not try to work their way through all of this. Concentrate on building the new world, don’t get emotionally involved in the daily reports of the current global erosion. I’ll try to send along some additional thoughts as the situation matures.


Read full article here:
http://www.arlingtoninstitute.org/tai-alert-18-new-end-new-

Love always
mudra

Last edited by mudra; 08-29-2009 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:53 AM   #300
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Practical Tools to Grow an Intentional Community

Here is an informative and thought-provoking video by Diana Leafe Christian, editor of Communities Magazine and author of the book: Creating a Life Together which is a unique guide to launching and sustaining successful communities providing step-by-step, practical advice on everything from the role of founders to vision documents, decision-making, agreements, legal options, buying and financing land, sustainable site design, and communication, group process, and dealing well with conflict, as well as community profiles, cautionary tales, and ample resources for learning more.

In this video, she states that only 10% of intentional communities have any long-term success. She then, concisely spells out the common elements in this successful 10% of intentional communities: common vision and purpose, fair participatory decision-making, clear agreements in writing, good balance of right and left-brain knowledge, methods of staying accountable to agreements, criteria for new members, good communication and processing skills.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlMDc..._embedded#t=33

Much love and joy,
--Cosmic Dancer
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