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Old 11-04-2008, 09:09 AM   #1
dataeast
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Default Spirituality and Religion

How are they the same?

Or, why are they not?

What, if anything, unites them?

Do they matter at all?

What do you think?
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:13 AM   #2
Anchor
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Well you could start by reading arcora's debate thread headed "2 Misconceptions" in this very topic.

Its a good debate.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6588
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:44 AM   #3
2infinityandbeyond
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Religion is sillyness. There is only one spirituality and it is the same for every man woman and child on this planet. And should be embarked individually by each one, no right way, no wrong way. Just common sense.

I'm actually suprised that on a forum of this calibur people are still debating religion, i really feel we should be past that.
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:02 AM   #4
dataeast
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Yeah, it's a good debate but doesn't seem to be addressing the two. I think it would be interesting to see how everyone perceives them rather than an academic approach to something that is personal and perhaps outside the domain of what is being touched upon in that thread.



EDIT:

Hehe, 2infinityandbeyond, too fast for me, my reply was for Anchor.

Last edited by dataeast; 11-04-2008 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:53 AM   #5
greybeard
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

In my humble opinion
Religion is and has been a great help and comfort to many people and truth is to be found in the teachings of the originators of all main religions.
However the dogma assocoiated with religion is man made and divisive,
Many wars have been fought over religion yet all original teachings of religion taught--- put God first and love and forgive all.

Spiritual is about oneness with no bounderies.

Religion puts God in a box ie a Christian only God or whatever dogma is taken as true by the individual.
How can God be in any way limited to love only the "faithfull" of one religion?
How can we tell God to favour any religion?
Religion is like hving a middle man to tell you how to think -- though some of it is helpful.

Spirituality says meitated pray find God within.
The bible says -- The Kingdom of Heaven is within" How can it be found witout looking within?
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within that does everything" not perhaps an accurate quote but thats what I understand of it.

Spirituality is alliegence only to God. Have great respect for tthe teacher yes but love God above all else.
All great techers did this, they did not look to have a following worshipiing them. Budda said "Put no head above your own"

No middle man.

Having said all that I have the greatet respect for all who are true to the teachings of the originator of any religion.
They love God to the best of their ability and that is all that really matters.

Repectfully Chris
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

xxx

Last edited by arcora; 11-12-2008 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:29 PM   #7
AussieG
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

To understand religion/spirituality we must first understand how we tick.

Of all the creatures on this planet man is the only one with the power of self will. This will is made up of two components Conscious(spirit) and Ego.
To control the will of man you need to control both components. The Ego is easy, simply encourage their individuality and attack their self esteem (materialism).
Conscious( spirit) the part of us that is universally connected to God
is controlled by religion dictating how it should be use, Religion claims to be the guardian of spirituality when in fact it is the jailer. Each and everyone has the unlimited right to seek there own higher power as they see it.
Therefore by controlling our Ego and conscious the PTB have us just where they want us.
The road to freedom is to (quoting a very fine man) "Ask not what humanity can do for you but what you can do for humanity". Change from "whats in it for me" to "How can i help".
If every one donated 5 hours a week to charity the world would be a very different place.
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #8
aiwass322
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
Well you could start by reading arcora's debate thread headed "2 Misconceptions" in this very topic.

Its a good debate.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6588
Very good debate indeed. I think the creator of this thread has a very interesting point in his/her statement.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:34 PM   #9
Kelphi
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Wait, don't you all believe that all religions led to the same place (God).

So if you were to hop on my path for time and I hop on yours all is well, right?

Spirituality is a path, is a believe system, is a world view, is a religion. Whats the big deal? I think maybe the word religion is the hang up for some.

Don't be afraid of a word and don't be afraid of some else's path. Be balanced, right?
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:00 PM   #10
777 The Great Work
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:19 PM   #11
tom
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

We can allways take the good out of most teachings, but if you allow it to dominate you're life through fear, then i'ts time to question your self. If you live in fear, because of your religion,is that good or bad?
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Religion is listening to other people. Spirituality is listening to God.
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:01 PM   #13
bilderburger w/cheese
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

2infinity and acora, thank the creator that im not the only one that feels this way.
greybeard, as usual, youre a gentleman about it and said it nicely.


religion and the dividing nature of religion have NO place in project avalon.
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilderburger w/cheese View Post
2infinity and acora, thank the creator that im not the only one that feels this way.
greybeard, as usual, youre a gentleman about it and said it nicely.


religion and the dividing nature of religion have NO place in project avalon.
And your a gentleman to say that.

Dogma -- dogs -man -- smiling.

Not nocking religion but it seems that at least some take away your free will.

If you dont believe what we believe you will be ostracised excomunicated -- whatever.
God wont excomunicate you.
Its like most Mothers love -- its unconditional -- Mum may not condone what you do but she still loves you.

Regards Chris
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

I posted the following earlier on the "garlic" thread, and perhaps it has its place here too:

If you understand the theoretical origins of religion and organized spirituality - the desire for human beings huddled around in their caves to make some sort of sense out of grandpa Ugh's death - then you know that death is the very thing that we fear the most. Why do you think everyone is pursuing "transcendance"? No matter your belief structure, those who seek "transcendance" are seeking to preserve their identities into the great beyond. Whether you are a fundamentalist Christian hoping to "transcend" after death, or a "third eye" new ager trying to "transcend" in life, you are seeking to mitigate your fear of ceasing to exist. Note the word "SELF" in the phrase "higher self". Accepting that your energy may continue without the sense of identity you have now is scary for a lot of folks, and the reason they drift toward religions and spriritual "systems" that promise the continuation of the "self."

Spirituality is what individuals practice, religion is what groups practice, but they are both means to the same end - to deal with the fear generated by the possibility that the "self" may be abandoned when our energy moves on out into the universe.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:53 PM   #16
Alloura
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Very interesting thread...

Having spent a part of my life in both organized religion and out of organized religion, I came to the following conclusions:

Spiritual knowledge I found when I spent time alone, praying, pondering, meditating & treating people in a loving manner. Along life's path I met some very spiritual people - inside religion and outside religion. It truly depended entirely on the person. To me being spiritual is a personal, individual choice.

Religion is often based on fear & manipulation - from very subtle to completely overt, with love laced in, in places. I found that in the religious group, the teaching often consisted of trying to guilt people into behaving as the group thought best, or using fear-based themes to keep people in line. There was a push for everyone to "be the same". Questioning decisions was looked at as out and out rebellion, or blasphemy. Very sad. This to me is religion - the loss of your free will to make personal choices.


I mean no offense to anyone who is involved in any religion. These are only mine personal experiences.

Love & Light

Alloura
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:59 PM   #17
dataeast
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Thank you all for responding, I think I'm in the right forum.

That is to say that I agree generally with everything that has been said.

historycircus, I loved your little analogy and greybeard your opinion is respectfully taken aboard.

IMO...

To answer my own question (apologies that I didn't initially), I think religion is an institutionalized version of one man/womans path toward bringing about a sense of sentient responsibility which precipitates in some form of illumination or connection with the <insert label for creator here>. Of course, the map is not necessarily precise and there are no guarantees that it will work nor is it any more valid than any other external source, but it is only one persons way, which I guess is fine for anyone wanting someone else for an authority, before the source. I just question the worth of secondhand information which may not apply to the individual.

I don't think religions are completely worthless, but from the results of some major institutions it appears as though they might have missed the mark or are working, which might be more disturbing. I've just found that people who claim to be religious don't behave according to the doctrines they espouse and almost 180 degrees opposite. In general, I find non-religious, spiritual people much more in tune with themselves and easy to be with.

I think there are some good guru's out there like some Zen Buddhists that teach through not teaching, but they are like guides that might push you in the pool when you ask a silly question like, "How warm is it?", so I can't say that all religions are "bad" but mostly they place themselves before that unnameable source. Inevitably though the guides only lead you to the door.

Spirituality, for me, is self responsibility for my own actions toward finding that sense of the unnameable. So, it's a direct connection to that source. It's a co-creative process rather than ritual although the intended goal might be the same. Even the mystics never needed the religions they ultimately inspired to arrive where they arrived.
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Old 11-06-2008, 05:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: Spirituality and Religion

Spirituality is inclusive
Religion is exclusive
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