Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Project Avalon > Preparations / Advice

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2008, 09:11 PM   #1
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Wink Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Looking for creative ideas here!

Here's my thinking ... I grew up non-electric until age 11, so I know how they did it in the old days. However, I want to get away from all things like propane, kerosene, gas, oil, etc., all harmful products.

I've solved most of the heating/cooking problems, but I haven't solved light. Candles -- old fashioned way, made from beeswax, but that's HONEYBEES, in short supply. New way is Parafin, but that's an oil derivative, petroleum. I don't want to support that industry in any way.

So that leaves? Anybody with true alternative energy ideas out there?

Thanks! Peace to all on this beautiful planet.
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:21 PM   #2
sunflower
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 443
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Hi, I haven't got too much experience with alternative energy. The bad ice storm we experienced here in Quebec a few years ago motivated me quite a bit, however!

We improved our fire place for starters so now the new insert will spread heat thruout the house.

We have been looking at portable solar panels that would connect to a 12 volt battery and then by using an inverter we would have electric power for small appliances eg laptop, small fridge, battery recharging etc. We need to consult with a friend who is an electrician to see is this is a viable way to proceed. And that's as far as we have gotten so far. Diane
sunflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:27 PM   #3
Dantheman62
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: So. Cal. U.S.
Posts: 4,205
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah View Post
Looking for creative ideas here!

Here's my thinking ... I grew up non-electric until age 11, so I know how they did it in the old days. However, I want to get away from all things like propane, kerosene, gas, oil, etc., all harmful products.

I've solved most of the heating/cooking problems, but I haven't solved light. Candles -- old fashioned way, made from beeswax, but that's HONEYBEES, in short supply. New way is Parafin, but that's an oil derivative, petroleum. I don't want to support that industry in any way.

So that leaves? Anybody with true alternative energy ideas out there?

Thanks! Peace to all on this beautiful planet.
Hey D, I went to google and there's all kinds of natural wax candles, including vegetable wax,soy wax, and palm oil wax, if you're in a windy area than a wind turbine is great for free elec., or if you're near a river than a water turbine is great free elec., just my 2 cents! PEACE
Dantheman62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:38 PM   #4
Blufire77
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 54
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Turn out the lights???!!!

Sorry . . . . couldn't resist . . . . I really just wanted to use the little rolling laughing face.
Blufire77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:40 PM   #5
mikey
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 228
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

go solar...

peace
bananaman
mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:46 PM   #6
Jamie
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: EX - Avalon Moderator
Posts: 94
Smile Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Has anyone mentioned steam power? I think that would be a viable way of charging batteries in order to have light.

You could use it as your main source of generating power, or just as a backup to your Solar/Hydro/Wind set-up.

Jay
Jamie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:50 PM   #7
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Blufire - I do turn out the lights! A lot of the time I live by the sun, go to bed early all that. However, I'm realizing that by "lights" I'm really also meaning (maybe) computer, and some small electrical devices.

Diane and Bananaman -- Can't afford to go major solar, but you just reminded me that my niece took two small portable solar panels with her to Kenya when she was in the Peace Corps and living in a native village. I'll have to find out from her if they worked or not.

The battery part of the solar setup, to store electricity, isn't very much to my liking, but I guess that's where the technology is today in that regard.

I'm going to look into bicycle-recharging of batteries, too. I think I saw something about that somewhere.

More thoughts welcome here!
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:52 PM   #8
sunnyrap
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

I heard a story online, allegedly based on fact, about an archeological group that discovered an ever-burning lamp inside one of the pyramids. When they opened the tomb, they discovered the lamp inside, which was in a closed container and had no apparent source of fuel/energy. This is evidently a bit of technology that has been discovered and utilized in the planet's distant past, and since lost. Perhaps a talented researcher and remote viewer in this group could try to scout that out?
sunnyrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:53 PM   #9
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Has anyone mentioned steam power? I think that would be a viable way of charging batteries in order to have light.

You could use it as your main source of generating power, or just as a backup to your Solar/Hydro/Wind set-up.

Jay
Steam -- Am willing to think about it, but I don't live near any hot springs. Energy is needed to make steam -- fire maybe. How would this work?
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:56 PM   #10
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyrap View Post
I heard a story online, allegedly based on fact, about an archeological group that discovered an ever-burning lamp inside one of the pyramids. When they opened the tomb, they discovered the lamp inside, which was in a closed container and had no apparent source of fuel/energy. This is evidently a bit of technology that has been discovered and utilized in the planet's distant past, and since lost. Perhaps a talented researcher and remote viewer in this group could try to scout that out?
That's it, sunnyrap! That's what I (and everyone on this planet!) is looking for! I'll have to start another thread, calling remote viewers! Thanks!
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:58 PM   #11
sunnyrap
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

There are two issues I'm keen on solving for myself: getting my little Tracker converted to use hydrogen fuel (Texas is just too big to be stuck without wheels!); and, having a generator that also runs on water.

Re: water-for-fuel
There is a bewildering variety of material on this topic and I'm no engineer. I did download a set of plans for a device you could build yourself and attach to your fuel system that supplemented your gasoline with hydrogen for cleaner, more efficient fuel power, but that had some drawbacks, imo. Not the least of which if there is a total break in the gasoline supply, expensive or not. I'd much rather go for the full hydrogen solution. However, I've read that you have to tweak your onboard computer to not respond to fuel sensors that shut down the engine if they sense improper fuel mixture. If there are any engineer types or even car geeks in the group--I'd sure like all the input on this project I can get. Maybe we can put together a library of links with notes on the various set ups/plans available?

Re: generators.
Someone on Avalon had posted a link to a YouTube that demo'd the zero-point generator (i.e., it runs on 'no' energy, once the battery gets the generator motor started). Tremendous concept, but I sure can't afford the $20,000 pricetag for that kind of machine, myself (but I bet a municipality could, forced to supply their own citizen's power--hmmm!). But waxing self-reliant appeals to me, so a hydrogen generator or magnetic type that George Green demo'd seem the least problematical for that. Any of you given this some in depth thought?

.
sunnyrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:58 PM   #12
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Also, considering that there may be electromagnetic changes on this planet, that will possibly disable all electrical devices, it would be good to be thinking of -- not ways to generate electricity -- but more along sunnyrap's thought, things that work entirely in a different way. (So forget my mention of computers and small electrical devices!) The thinking is evolving as I read these various posts. Good brainstorming.

Last edited by doodah; 09-26-2008 at 10:05 PM.
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:02 PM   #13
Blufire77
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 54
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Sorry for being a smarty pants. Actually Solar, wind, steam are all valid.

Do look up info on the bicycle generated stuff. I have a couple websites on this and will look them up,

The bike is attached to an alternator (car type) which in turns generates the battery. I wanted a couple of these especially in an bunker/shelter situation as a form of pragmatic energy producing exercise. Also attach to treadmills . . . which could also serve to exercise your dog!
Blufire77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:05 PM   #14
Blufire77
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 54
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Don't forget hydro-power. If you live near a stream, creek or river. Great source or never ending motion.
Blufire77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:08 PM   #15
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blufire77 View Post
Don't forget hydro-power. If you live near a stream, creek or river. Great source or never ending motion.
Hydro -- if the stream is big enough and has enough force behind the water! I do live near a stream and at first thought I would build a waterwheel, but the stream isn't deep enough and doesn't move fast enough. Any thoughts on this?

And yes you were a smartypants, but you seem like a good soul nonetheless.

TO ALL: I have to go now, but will check back in later. Thanks for the discussion. It's getting the brain cells moving!

Last edited by doodah; 09-26-2008 at 10:14 PM.
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:22 PM   #16
333mark333
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Western Shore of the Hudson Bay-churchill, manitoba, canada
Posts: 301
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Up here where i am WIND POWER is the way to generate, but if we have an electromagnetic spike then????????????? maybe we will have to base our lives around the rise and fall of the sun!
333mark333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 11:19 PM   #17
Peace of Mine
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

We live quite well now "off the grid" on our boat. We utilize wind and solar to run lights, tvs, fans, laptops, refrigeration, whatever our power needs. Yes, as long as it is available, I LIKE my laptop with PC Card that lets me pick up the internet wherever we roam.

We installed a keel-kooled refrigerator that uses 40 amps a day. It holds a month's supply of veggies, breads, dairy, whatever. Granted, i had to get used to a top-load. No big deal.

For lights, we found LED flashlights for $1.00 and converted them to excellent reading/ambient lighting. There are now lots available, more expensive, but very workable for almost NO power. We searched out low-amp fans, which keep us cool even in the high-humidity of SW Florida.

For cooking, we still use LPG. We carry a 3-month supply. We built a solar oven, but it needs constant tweaking. Jacques Fresca (The Venus Project) used prisms to focus sunlight for an efficient cooker, but we haven't figured out how to do this yet. We truly don't need cabin heat or air-conditioning.

We use 2 8-D AGM Glassmat batteries to store energy. Runs everything we need. Wind power recharges much faster, but is not as dependable as slow, steady solar. Occasionally, we have to top the batteries with our diesel generator. It takes 1/4 gal of diesel to recharge full. We use an e-meter to keep up with everything. J installed everything himself, and we both understand how to keep our power supply running smoothly. (Even when I stay on Avalon way too many hours lately!!)

The ideal solution is a "free energy" generator. We have seen one work, but none of the models have ever made it to market. They ARE available, and they DO work. SOON??? We wanted to build a magnet motor generator, but couldn't find plans that were reliable enough to justify the cost.

The waterfall/hydropower system is pretty complicated to install, and doesn't give much power, regardless of the size of the wheel or amount of water. You lose a lot through the electric lines to reach your power supply.

It is very liberating, to be so self-sufficient. Our budget went down 75% when we cut the docklines. We use our bikes and kayaks to provision, can get to excellent farmer's markets within "sail" power, spend the rest of the time enjoying a more natural environment.
Peace of Mine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 11:25 PM   #18
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Dear Peace,

Sounds wonderful! Just a quick question, just passing through again, will be back later, but what is a keel-cooled refrigerator?
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:13 AM   #19
bosr
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 45
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Go here to learn how to inexpensively build your own electric generating solar panel(s). He includes links for the electronics as well as a DIY wind generator.

http://www.mdpub.com/SolarPanel/index.html

Enjoy!
bosr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:40 AM   #20
Katherine
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 29
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Hi all.......

Interesting thread......I know I read somewhere (or was it in a flyer) that either IKEA or Canadian Tire are actually selling small solar panels. Does anyone know about this? Are they worth the money? As I recall they were fairly inexpensive - so again....are they worth it? OR do you get what you pay for?


Any thoughts?

K
Katherine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 02:41 AM   #21
doodah
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 373
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Hi again ... just checking in quickly to see what's new. OK, collecting enough references here to keep me deep in research for a while!

Must reiterate ... solar, wind, steam, water... we talk about them here that they will generate electricity to drive our currently existing electrical devices. At best, I am now looking at those alternate means as a temporary jump off the grid ... until there is an electromagnetic pulse when all the electrical devices will be useless, as well as the solar, wind, steam, water set up to drive them.

BIG JUMP needed here! Truly alternate! No electricity or electrical devices.

I'm not saying I won't go to solar if I can or any of the others ... as an in-between thing, but I don't think it will be permanent.

Going back to early industrial times, there was mechanical power ... like water-driven mills for grinding grain (the same kind of mechanical power horses or oxen provide when they walk round and round in circles and grind grain in older cultures, turning two stones with the grain in between). Early power in America was steam from burning something ... coal, wood.

We're thinking here that solar, wind, etc. will provide electricity.

Any thoughts about what else it could do? Water can provide direct mechanical energy, as in the mill. Wind can also provide direct mechanical energy, as in lifting water out of the ground (windmills), no electricity involved. Solar can cook directly, no electricity involved.

Still haven't solved the problem of providing light! So far, it's either candles or some form of electric, or the mysterious globe found in the pyramids that we need some remote viewers to take a look at to see how it works.

Also, we've engaged so far three of the four denser elements: water, fire, and air. Earth energy could be geothermal, but I don't live near any hot springs.
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 02:52 AM   #22
Baggywrinkle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Our two largest challenges are pumping water and
refrigeration.

My preferred solutions would be a water tower, a steam
engine, and biogas.

I'm aware of several dairy operations that generate huge
amounts of biogas and convert it into electricity. There
is a Hutterite community in Northern Alberta that sells
excess biogas generated electricity to the local grid.

As far as lighting goes. We've started using strontium based phospholuminescent tape

Check this out.



http://www.identi-tape.com/phosphor.htm
These techniques can work. No pie in the sky here, and
steam is tried and true; a perfected technology.

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-27-2008 at 03:00 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 03:08 AM   #23
Aisuru Chiku
Avalon Senior Member
 
Aisuru Chiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 47
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

I hope this will help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E41v...eature=related
Aisuru Chiku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 03:09 AM   #24
Dantheman62
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: So. Cal. U.S.
Posts: 4,205
Default Re: Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Hey D, check my post again up top, there's all kinds of natural candles so light isn't a problem, there's plenty of hand crank pumps out there so water isn't a problem, use wood for heat and cooking so the only thing your missing is refrigeration, which we never had any way in the old days, so there you go!
Dantheman62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 05:03 AM   #25
Baggywrinkle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Biogas & Steam









Otherpower home built steam powered generator video clip. With an appropriate battery bank you
would run this once a week to charge. Of course it could get as big and fancy as you can dream.
(solar, wind, hydrogen, ect ect ect) You could also run pump jacks or air compressors with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xksDjfLbcQ0

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-27-2008 at 05:18 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon