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Old 10-13-2008, 03:02 AM   #26
Sherab
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

Going veggie/vegan means you will feel better for a while, probably because you are forced to eat more veggies and your body can process some of the back log of toxic stuff. But eventually, unless you are extremely conscientious, and eat lots of eggs, your health will begin to decline.

Humans are basically protein synthesizing animals, we need lots of it daily to stay to healthy. I believe I have read that vegetarian societies have a shorter lifespan compared to meat eating societies (someone can check on this if they are so inclined).

The reason there are no good substitutes for meat is because there are no good substitutes for meat. Nature intended humans to eat meat to maintain optimum health. Soy, hemp, TVP, etc, do not even come close to providing adequate nutrition.

I am not yet convinced that a sustainable society could exclude all meat eating. But maybe I will be proven wrong.

And let me just say, I am not discounting veganism/vegetarianism. I just don't think they are viable long-term solutions.
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:27 AM   #27
Morgan
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

If you listen to Mercola (mercola.com), he says that a lot of people are high-protein types (meaning their diet needs to be based on animal protein and fats), that the middle group are mixed types (needing a more balanced diet of animal protein and plant/vegetable carbohydrates), and then there are the minority vegetarian types, who, you guessed it, thrive on a meatless, high-carb diet.

Most people do not thrive on the latter.

A question for the ascension/spiritual types:

What do you say to people who must eat animal proteins in order to maintain decent health? IE. ketogenic diet for epileptics, there is even research suggesting higher protein diets are ideal for diabetics, inflammatory bowel disease, and check around www.westonaprice.org for another viewpoint about meat. What about people with food allergies, who if they were to exclusively eat plants would be so limited they'd be malnourished? I am allergic to all grains, dairy, and soy - my diet would thus contain fruits and vegetables. So how do I meet caloric needs in a balanced way??

These are why I don't buy the 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' line of thought. Human health is too fragile and damaged for this to be a key to 'ascension' or 'enlightenment'.

I think there's a big difference between factory farming and being as intelligent and as humane as possible. We have responsibility, no doubt. I guess my 'beef' (ha) with vegetarians are the ones who become religious about it, trying to convert others and proclaim it is the way to heaven, the way to a better life, the way to enlightenment, etc.

:\
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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'vegetarianism is more spiritual'
This is New-Age BS.


salute.
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:37 AM   #30
Karen
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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ahhh..that's why the ancient hindu's in India didn't eat cows but worshipped them

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7830/cow.htm
So it says in India the cows were "used" by humans. "Cows provide milk which helps sustain life, life of adults and children alike. The by-products of the milk, yoghurt, buttermilk, butter etc were an integral part of their daily diet. Their dung was a free, useful, year-round fuel supply. Being tame, they were an excellent beast of burden. By pulling carts and ploughs, they were partners in technology that helped develop new frontiers in the Indian sub-continent. Even after death, their skins were useful in various ways."

I think even more important than animal protein in the human diet, is the animal fat from pastured and well-treated animals. Yes, there are some humans that can live well as vegan, eating nothing from the animal kingdom including milk and eggs, but there are many humans, esp those of Northern European ancestry that cannot. The fat in whole natural old-fashioned milk from cows grazing on green pastures is packed full of the fat-soluble vitamins humans need including "Activator X". With some fat in the diet a person will feel satiated longer and not have to eat so much volume.

http://www.realmilk.com/price.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/transition/dairy.html
http://www.nourishingwisdom.com/arti...food-diet.html

Factory farming is a cruel enterprise and I agree action should be taken to change this abomination. For the last 3 years my mom and I together have bought one quarter of 100% grass-fed beef from a local rancher. I never eat at the fast food restaurants.

I have studied the vegan topic for many years. I have decided each person must listen to their own body for some people have become very very ill trying to follow the vegetarian or vegan path.
http://beyondveg.com/

Some people do better to include some organic/grass-fed dairy, or some eggs from free-range chickens. I am the metabolic type from Northern Europe that needs some fatty dark meat (high purine) everyday - just a few ounces.

Dr. Kelley outlines his categories of 10 metabolic types here:
http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch8.html

Since we can not all be vegan and be healthy, we can still stand up for the humane treatment of the animals that we use to carry our burdens and that sometimes feed us too.

Last edited by Karen; 10-13-2008 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:41 AM   #31
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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- i have not seen one thread about all those MILLIONS of starving desperate fearful people in the world who probably have NO IDEA of an economic crash and couldn't care less as long as they get to feed their children tomorrow!!!
You are so right! What do you think, Friends? What do we have to say about that?
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:49 AM   #32
whitecrow
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If you listen to Mercola (mercola.com), he says that a lot of people are high-protein types...
These are why I don't buy the 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' line of thought.
I think you've made some really important points. I constantly advocate a mostly vegetarian diet, but I have never been a vegetarian and don't believe I ever will. I've always been uncomfortable with the subtle moral innuendo that underlies so much vegetarian advocacy. The implication is that vegetarians are morally superior because they don't kill animals.

I think this is pure ox droppings. There is nothing immoral about eating meat. I do believe that the way most food animals are raised and slaughtered is appalling, and moreover the way we consume meat is both unhealthy and bad for the planet. But as far as eating meat goes, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Personally, I think everyone who eats meat should kill and dress out a deer or other mammal at least once in their life, simply so they have a very clear understanding of the circle of life. Maybe that makes me hardcore...it sure doesn't make me more of a carnivore.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)


The dioxin comes from microscopic particles of ash from incinerators that have settled on grass and crops eaten by the beef cattle, pigs, and chickens. All farm animals are affected - even herds grown on "all-natural" feed. See dioxin.


Dioxin is the contaminating factor..not the meat.

this can thus be found also in any greens harvested then..so even the vegetarian is contaminated trying to avoid meat.

Beef can harbor a deadly new germ, called e. coli O157:H7

So can vegetables..
just recently the out breaks of e. coli O157:H7 in Southern California have been said to be from some form or another of vegetable.

Last edited by ETE; 10-13-2008 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:48 AM   #34
stal
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

i agree with a couple of you on this. theres nothing wrong with eating meat. many people need meat to be healthy. i've spent over half my life living and working on farms/stations/ranches, so i grew up around killing your own meat, and have tried to go veggie. didnt work. not at all. i need meat to live. that being said, the way some meatworks operate is not good. also the waste factor. ever looked in the bin out the back of a fast food joint after closing?

if eating meat was so bad, why did all the old cultures eat it? australian aboriginies, native americans, africans, indians, asians , scandinavians etc etc.

good call about everyone having to kill and clean at least once. i've met many people wo didnt know that lamb and mutton came from....gasp.....sheep!!

thats what you all should be eating, sheep. lamb and mutton is just as(if not more) healthy than organic beef, it can be prepared more ways, and lets face it, sheep are very low on the ol setience factor.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

I will re-iterate what I have said on another thread; I do not feel guilty for being an omnivore. The only thing morally "wrong" with it is the way modern industrial farming has destroyed the environment, quality of life for the animals, quality of meat for us etc.

I have serious doubts about vegetarian and especially vegan diets. Humans have been omnivores arguably for 2.5 million years. Our teeth and digestive systems are designed for both animal and plant sources. Some evolutionary biologists (as much as you may or may not believe in evolution) believe that is it precisely animal consumption that gave the impetus for language and social groups; animal proteins added to our stature, just like glucose in fruits and veggies fed our brains and made us "smarter".

Out of the 7 vegetarians that I personally know, only one is actually healthy. The rest are rail-thin, weak, and suffer from nutritional deficiencies. This of course is because they are not meal planning or paying attention to their diets, even though most of them eat a wider variety of grains and veggies than the average person. The only one that is healthy is that way because she intentionally keeps a food journal and plans meals.

Now what I want to know, is if a vegetarian diet is so "right" for humans, why is it that people on these diets can only be healthy if they are meticulously keeping track of everything? That is not normal at all. The human digestive system is an amazing laboratory; it can break down and synthesize exactly what it needs out of an infinite amount of various ingredients at various ratios. Meat eaters regularly do very well on their random diets, and they would do even better if the animals they ate were grass-fed and not injected with antibiotics and hormones. Vegetarians on the other hand don't do so well with a random diet.

I would like to propose another solution; eat sheep. The meat isn't as tampered with (yet), and sheep don't destroy cropland like cattle do. Their milk is better balanced for the human body than cow's milk, and it takes a lot less to feed sheep than cows (by weight).
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:41 PM   #36
Emman
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

[QUOTE=Darren Swisher;46635]1 month ago i stopped eating meat all together, I can say after only 1 month i feel better, have more energy, have lost 10 lbs, My blood pressure is down and i do not miss the "Flesh" at all. 100% whole fruits and veggies, Whole grains and natural juices.

I do not get into plugging things for people i will provide the link about the book that i have used.


http://www.ravediet.com/whatsinbook.htm

I just wanted to note, I did this for health reasons only. I still cook for my family and there is meat involved. I just choose not to partake in the flesh right now.




I, too, made the shift to be a vegetarian. I bought the Rave Diet book from George Green's website. After watching the DVD called Eating that came with the book, I made the shift. This was back in May this year. I started out on a vegan diet for the first couple months. I have settled into a vegetarian diet as I will eat salmon or fish once in a great while as well as a little cheese.

I am surprised that I actually made the shift away from meat. Just several months ago I would not have thought I could do it even though I have been thinking about it for over a year. The shift coincides with my introduction into the Ground Crew. I think that my effort to raise my consciousness and vibrations have indeed allowed me to shift into a plant based diet.

My main reason for wanting to shift was because of the unconscionable treatment of the animals for our food. It wasn't until I got the Rave Diet book that I learned about how unhealthy it is be on a meat based diet. After that I shifted immediately. Virtually overnight if you will.

I am proud to be a vegetarian. It is one of the most proudest things I have done in my life. You have to understand that I could not even envision being a vegetarian at all not that long ago. I could not imagine not having my favorite BBQ sandwich called Pecos Pit in Seattle. I could not imagine not eating a wonderfully done tenderloin with a terrific merlot. I could not imagine not having my favorite dish that my mother cooks called sati babi, a grilled pork dish served with her peanut butter sauce. Seriously, these were some of life's greatest joys to me. Not anymore. Those are nice memories now. I think of it like the nice memories of childhood playing as a little kid. Even though my times as a child were wonderful, I have no desire to relive those times as I have outgrown them. I see my times as a carnivore the same way.

Since I have shifted to a plant based diet, it's been great in a number of ways:

I cook all the time now. I rarely eat out like I used to, which was about 4-6 times a week. I love farmer's markets.

Saved money. Because we don't eat out as much anymore, less money spent on food.

I lost weight naturally. I haven't weighed myself, but I my clothes are much looser. I took about 2-3 inches off my waist. My face is thinner.

No indigestion. You know, prior to my shift, I would have to eat several antacids like Tums every day. I would need to eat 3-5 Tums before going to bed every night because the food would creep up my pipe.

I'm healthier in general. I haven't eaten any eggs at all either. I'm not consuming any cholesterol, or just trace amounts if any.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:45 PM   #37
izz
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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You are so right! What do you think, Friends? What do we have to say about that?

actually genevieve i agree and i have mentionedf this time and time again ..when i have posted .. about the imbalance in the world
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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thats what you all should be eating, sheep. lamb and mutton is just as(if not more) healthy than organic beef, it can be prepared more ways, and lets face it, sheep are very low on the ol setience factor.
so sheep are to be considered less worthy of living than cows?
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:57 PM   #39
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There seems to be different needs for different bodies: some are more protein type, some more in carbs, other vegetables etc...

The basic truth is Amino Acids...

Our bodies have the ability to produce all the proteins we need but there are 10 (currently recognized) amino acids that we MUST get from food

Back in biology (a long long time ago in a galaxy...) we were taught that the body needs 42... (the universal answer ???) We could manufacture all 42 if we had 7 amino acids...

If just ONE was missing, a whole group could not be created leading to all sorts of problems and deficiencies and disease.

I have seen vegetarians sick all the time because unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing, a veggie diet will ensure you miss some vital elements

Hindus may worship cows... but they drink the milk thus ensuring they get that amino acid group.

American do eat too much meat... it has been estimated that 80% of Americans walk around with 10 to 20 pounds of putrified meat in their intestines... Talk about health issues from tat

But I think its dangerous telling people to stop eating meat without PROFESSIONALLY giving the alternative that is needed to replace the missing amino acids


Sadly doctors in the US do not care about prevention... No money in keeping people healthy

As to the animals PITA ran a campaign showing Col Sanders as a mad butcher and ran an ad saying you were a child molester if you fed you kids hamburgers.

Needless to say that kind of mentality serves no one

And don't you be wearing any leather shoes or belts... or I might think you a hypocrite
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:20 PM   #40
BeaTnik-BandiT
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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The basic truth is Amino Acids...
....I have seen vegetarians sick all the time because unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing, a veggie diet will ensure you miss some vital elements

Hindus may worship cows... but they drink the milk thus ensuring they get that amino acid group.
Amino acids is an interesting point.Thanks for bringing it.
I am quoting (again) Stewart Swerdlow: He says that even animals that live out of a veggie diet, let's say cows or whatever,
get their dose of animal protein with multitude of insects scattered in the grass.

It seems that animal proteins are essential for optimum health.
When i said the needs where different depending on the bodies type, i was quoting Dr J. Mercola sayings that there are 4 nutritional types.

take care.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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Amino acids is an interesting point.Thanks for bringing it.
Agreed. Even for those who dislike meat, they should eat cheese and yogurt and probably even a few eggs from time to time. A vegan diet is not suitable for the human animal in the long run, although with care it can be maintained for a while. In time the deficiencies will manifest.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:18 AM   #42
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When i said the needs where different depending on the bodies type, i was quoting Dr J. Mercola sayings that there are 4 nutritional types.
take care.
Yes quite true... and that applies to medications as well, something I have noticed doctors seem to ignore.... You will see a prescription filled for a small frail old lady being the same as a 6 ft 280 lbs 30 year old body builder

Same dosage... no regards to age, body type, absorption etc...

Same for food... cravings help... its your body telling you what you need. Another big mistake many make (especially here in Vegas Land of the Buffet) is mixing too many foods in one meal. This can cause weird reactions.

They also discovered that calcium is absorbed by the body better in the presence of vitamin C and have now added Calcium to orange juice

We are basically a chemical factory

Market does weird things too like the VC from Acerola cherries is better than the VC from oranges Pure Ascorbic acid is the same no matter where its extracted from...
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

Sure, we can stop eating beef.

But, then what?

How do you convince people who aren't fond of veggies or legumes to suddenly start eating both?
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:46 AM   #44
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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so sheep are to be considered less worthy of living than cows?
Sure, if you consider how the llluminati feels towards humans.

(bad joke there)

Seriously, there isn't enough motivation to eat healthy or lose weight out there. I lost weight 3 years ago, wasn't able to maintain it and gained it all back. Blah.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:29 AM   #45
BeaTnik-BandiT
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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They also discovered that calcium is absorbed by the body better in the presence of vitamin C and have now added Calcium to orange juice

We are basically a chemical factory
Ok. But if Magnesium is absent, Calcium cannot be properly absorbed.
It seems that people in industrialised countries are in a deficit of this mineral.

There is a fragile equilibrium at play here, between these 2 elements.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:05 AM   #46
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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'vegetarianism is more spiritual'
I dont buy that either. I mean can you imagine trying to explain that to a Native American Indian who lived on buffalo - and telling them that they could be more spiritual if they ate veggies instead!

A..
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:04 PM   #47
aroundthetable
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

According to the Vedas, people who meat without necessity can only make limited spiritual progress. People who have no choice and/or hunt their own meat are not affected by this, for example eskimos and native indians and they too have the highest respect for those that they must kill and established spiritual practices. I doubt this applies to the people in this forum. Outside of necessity, meat is murder and karmic reaction is certain. Its your choice.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

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I most closely agree with Sherab, and I think there was one other who stated a similar viewpoint.

I really regret not having committed this information to my mind more thoroughly, but know it exists that vegetarianism is not the answer to all of our problems. I was a vegetarian for nearly 10 years, vegan for six of those, and I was quite ill by the end of that time. Adding meat and dairy back to my routine brought my health back up considerably.

I do disagree with commercial farming, factory farming, etc. I eat only organic animal products. We don't need to be inhumane and unsustainable in our practice of meat consumption. No answer is as simple as vegetarian vs. meat-eater. It's far more complicated than everyone just quitting meat.
Totally agree with you and further more anyone who still insists that eating meat is bad for you, then I would remind them of all the native cultures that have been doing it for centuries and have maintained better health than us westerners. I agree that common animal farming is in most cases woeful but that by itself is not a complete argument against eating meat and I also believe that obesity has nothing at all to do with meat. Lets also not forget than for some people in some parts of the world, growing fruit and veg is near impossible due to climate. I once watched a documentary about a village of people that ate almost nothing but reindeer, they were quite healthy.
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcmYN...eature=related


this thread made me think of this old hip hop tune

im vegetarian have been since 2000. tried vegan until i realised soya is a brain exiter toxin. i have eaten meat occasionally when presented to me as a gift. like mendicant monks.

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Old 02-07-2010, 06:56 PM   #50
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Default Re: 10 Reasons to Stop Eating Beef (and other Fast Food)

Here in the usa we have these inane commercial advertising campaigns focused on things like beef or milk. A slogan from one that lasted for quite a while is "Beef, It's What's for Dinner" (still going apparently)


Starting memes is a hobby of mine. Here is one that attempts to break the 'beef = dinner' mental link. It usually provokes quite a reaction from the zombies that populate mainstream internet sites.

Beef, It's What You're Programmed to Eat!

It still gives me a chuckle
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