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Old 03-02-2009, 09:17 PM   #1
Anchor
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Default Group survival

It seems to me that it is easier to prepare to look after yourself, but we also know that we need to survive in groups if we are to make the survival sustainable.

How can one adapt to an influx of several hundred survivors of (insert calamity here) against a backdrop of global economic meltdown (ie: no help coming).

I see one of the first challenges as shelter.

So to the thrust of my question -

Does anyone know anything about building shelters on a larger scale? Optimal placement, Sanitary considerations, extensions out to farming.

I have a mental vision of a kind of village hall surrounded by huts, but it isnt clear how they come about.

A..

Last edited by Anchor; 03-03-2009 at 02:29 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:31 PM   #2
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Group survival

I guess I don't understand your first sentence. Why do we need to be in groups to survive and make it sustainable? I've really never understood this and have always planned on being a groundcrew of one. My own food,weapons,tools,shelter,and anything else that goes with it. I think that being instantly mobile will be a big help along with not being noticed so much, being one person. I don't know really, just my way of thinking.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:39 PM   #3
Carmen
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Default Re: Group survival

I have instinctively been planning for a calamity scenario for many years. I keep blankets, pillows etc. I have put a large fireplace in an old stone woolshed that would accommodate many people in an emergency. I am at the stage of completing a kitchen area. I also use this building for parties and events now, but always, at the back of my mind i think of using it for an emergency situation. I intend that only gentle people of good character find their way to my place, but I would not turn anyone away. With the knowledge I have, I wish to be useful to my community.,

Further on from earthchanges, unexpected calamity, I see people building, using resources from the environment. Stone, rocks, tyres,rammed earth, earthship type buildings. Anything suitable would be utilized. Extensive gardens and orchards. Edible woodlands and forests planted. No leaders as such, just people helping each other. Leaders of the moment would be those who are the experts in a certain field, so leadership would move around the people involved.

Honour, integrity, Love, Compassion, tenderness, strength, endurance. These would be the principles of life in a future/now community.

Love to All

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Old 03-02-2009, 10:42 PM   #4
Swanny
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Default Re: Group survival

Last thing I want to do is be in a big group of people, that will just be hard work, all that bickering and egos tripping over each other.
I'm happy to be just me and/or one or two others.
A lot of people have no practical skills what so ever and are going to need a lot of help but you can bet they are still going to be at the front of the queue when it comes to meal time, and will be happy to tell me how to do things
I don't mind sharing my knowledge but don't want to be in a group thx
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:56 PM   #5
Carmen
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Default Re: Group survival

The people I know are all country people with skills. Practical and hardworking. Not ego-centric, that just wouldn't work. I wouldn't want to be in a group, group either. Im too independant and solitary for that. Its a balance of individual and also working together. For instance helping your neighbour build his house, his barn. Also swapping produce, animals. Bartering different goods and skills. We do that here now to a certain degree and it works well. Its certainly not like living in a commune with a guru type leader. No way!!
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:10 PM   #6
Swanny
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Default Re: Group survival

Leaders don't work for me, I've been self employed for exactly that reason.
My Dad has a saying.
"Ask me always, tell me never."
That's how I feel as well.
Happy to help out all day long, but try telling me to do something and you've got no chance
I travelled the world and most of that I've done alone, happy to tag along for a while with different people but there comes a day when I head off in another direction.

I've seen some programs on tele of those communes with a leader and his little flock No thx
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:17 PM   #7
Ammit
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Default Re: Group survival

If it came to what you are all discussing, and you needed to survive long term, I believe that the only way is in a group.

Different people have different skills, from animal husbandry, medics, mechanics and blah blah blah.

There are a lot of people in this world that I for one would not want to rely on to survive, I can do it myself after all I am survival trained but, when and if it came to the crunch, I would like to know I had fellow humans around me to not only help keep me human and sane with daily contact but also assist if i had problems, as i could assit them with there`s.

I have been there and done it, believe me it is a lonely existence by yourself.

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Old 03-03-2009, 12:07 AM   #8
Anchor
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Default Re: Group survival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman62 View Post
I guess I don't understand your first sentence. Why do we need to be in groups to survive and make it sustainable?
Let's see if I can elaborate...

The attempt to survive on your own is admirable and shows more thinking that most have done on this subject. However, I just wanted to extend that out to its logical conclusion: as a loaner, you trip, fall, break a leg. Who sets if for you? Who hunts for you while you heal?

Survival is not about just getting through the first year. I am talking about the next 20-30 years - and from then on, successive generations.

Your approach has the base level of the "heirarchy of needs" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow'...archy_of_needs ) taken care of, but there are some others above that that will, sooner or later, require your attention.

A..

Last edited by Anchor; 03-03-2009 at 02:28 AM. Reason: terrible spelling :(
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:55 AM   #9
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Group survival

OK true what you say, if I break a bone I might be screwed, maybe not but I wasn't planning on being alone out there forever. I've got a brother and three sisters that will eventually make up a mini groundcrew. I guess I should've been a little more clear on my intentions. We all have our own knowledge that would make a perfect group having everything covered from health to mechanics to food, so that's really my plan. The only problem is we're scattered all over the country so getting together might be a problem, LOL!
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:22 AM   #10
TtC
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Default Re: Group survival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
Does anyone know anything about building shelters on a larger scale? Optimal placement, Sanitary considerations, extensions out to farming.
Yes, I know about building shelters on a large scale as well as placement, sanitary considerations, and the farming end of things.

This is a big question. There are several factors that need to be addressed.

What time frame are you looking at after a catastrophe, a week, a month, a year? If you are near a zone that sustained a lot of damage, you will have to deal with some people who are in no mental state to cope with the events. This may be a few or it may be many. If they cannot get out of their funk, they will worry themselves to death. You also have to think about the amount of injured you will see as well. In such a situation, a general mental state of negativity is present. This allows disease to take hold of the person, greatly increasing the area mortality rate.

Once that is taken into account, you will have to think about how temporary your shelters are. You will most likely want to separate the sick from the well, within reason, in order to decrease the spread of disease. This is a major sanitary concern. You will have to gauge this on your geographical location. If you have a high mortality rate, you may want disassemble the makeshift hospital at a later time because some of these people will die and decrease the population and some will get better and be able to help others.

Are you doing this near the city? Is there viable farm land in the region? Are you going to relocate a temporary shelter or make something more permanent in a different location with better land and resources? Are you doing this by yourself or do you expect everyone to help (some will not be able to)? Are you going to use found materials from the surrounding area or do you want to get everything new? Are you near a seismic or flooding area? Can your shelters sustain aftershocks or flooding? How fast do you want to put them up?

Other things to consider: human waste management, garbage, power needs, distribution system, food production (seeds, fruit, vegetables, dairy, animals for protein, etc), how many people are there to feed, clothing, bedding, medical needs, population increase and decline, etc.

There is a mass of variables to be considered. Many important ones, if overlooked, can mean life or death.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:17 AM   #11
Anchor
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Default Re: Group survival

Hi TtC,

Thanks - you will see by my answers that I have a long way to go in developing my ideas. My highest priority now is to understand what materials I must buy while there is still a place to buy them from, but obviously there is still some macro level thinking that I clearly need to do.

No this will be very far from the City. I am expecting that the people that will go to this place will be attracted there by the operation of universal law of attraction

My mission parameters are to provide a working "staging post" that might have to last 20-30years before the next move (which will very probably be motivated due to geological movement).

These people will be awakened - but some of them might be a little late to that party and need help. Thus all those that will show up will be people like who are inner directed and have been able to keep their heads to a certain extent - working with the universe to avoid serious problems and injury. I expect a trickle of people showing up rather than a deluge, and the levels of injury to be "walking wounded" max. Since at the time when I think this will happen there will be many more healers activating, I am not to worried about it.

(By the way, I don't really want to go into WHY I think it will be this way - I did that a lot in other posts and so far people don't seem to like it very much)

So, I have been thinking that I may soon be in a position to preposition some supplies. I don't have access to vast resources, but I am not broke yet and a little goes a long way.

Although many of the challenges you have outlined I have considered, your point about phasing, the transition from the initial "recovery" stage to "sustained community" is well made and has me thinking.

* Are you doing this near the city?

Good God no - I freaking hate cities.

* Is there viable farm land in the region?

Yes

* Are you going to relocate a temporary shelter or make something more permanent in a different location with better land and resources?

Don't know yet good question. Probably the former.

* Are you doing this by yourself or do you expect everyone to help (some will not be able to)?

Initial preps yes. As people arrive they will help.

* Are you going to use found materials from the surrounding area or do you want to get everything new?

Both.

* Are you near a seismic or flooding area? Can your shelters sustain aftershocks or flooding?

No and no they don't exist yet. Potential threats I am in mind of are bushfires, high wind and a degree of cold that people round here are not ready for. (In NSW 8 degrees Centigrade is the end of the world for a lot of people!)

* How fast do you want to put them up?

Weeks - but there is a lot here I have not thought through.

* How many

Don't know yet. Initially I intend to develop a plan that scaled in units of 12. For a long time I have been thinking that proto groups would be 12 families/units.

Thanks for your reply and your searching questions! Even if the answers don't come fast, it has me thinking.

A..
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #12
TtC
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Default Re: Group survival

For the time being, without any more information, I would suggest yurts for shelter. They are supposed to be portable but some are not. If you want to buy them, they are relatively cheap, but you can also make your own. They can withstand earthquakes better than a conventional house due to the geometry, can be put on stilts easily if it comes to flooding, and will sustain high winds (75mph). If you want something to be fire retardant and highly wind (200mph) resistant, you will either need some high tech materials or look for more permanent structures.

What I meant by found materials would be scraps from broken and abandon buildings. Something if you were close to the city.

Take a look here. It is in Canada so I doubt you want to ship things across an ocean, but it will give you a good idea. Not all yurts are portable. Here is a traditional Mongolian yurt manufacturer in Australia.

There is also a good book on their design and construction here.

If you want something more permanent I would suggest finding a good chunk of land somewhere and stockpile rebar and cement.

Last edited by TtC; 03-03-2009 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:19 AM   #13
Peace2all
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Default Re: Group survival

Hi All, I just put this post in reply to a new member on the Australian Ground Crew thread and thought I should also put it here, see below....
My hubby and I have also researched safe and practical shelters and so far can't beat sand bag homes, that are filled with scoria, covered in papercrete and we are also looking at back filling with soil and having a garden on the roof. Our vision is of community structures that sort of looks like a flower with a large central meeting/cooking/school area with smaller family units off this. Sandbags shelters are also cheaper to make, are versatile with design shapes and fillings and are VERY strong if made correctly. Our challenges are; harnessing natural light if you have to shut down and also oxygen intake in case of needing to close up for a time. We are also into permiculture, recycling, orgone creations, growing our own foods, homeschooling, not killing animals and seeking peace and enlightment in these times. Peace to all of you and may you all find your "SPACE OF LOVE".
Hi Sharondon and fellow AUSSIES,
There is also another thread on Avalon started by Anchor "GROUP SURVIVAL" which also has lots of information regarding communities. My husband (Soul Rebel) and I are also in the process of selling up everything and starting a community in NSW, just checking out land now. We also know of two groups in Melb and NSW that may be joining up and already purchased land. These communities though are more based on "Ringing Cedar Communities" based in the Anastasia books and are not as survival motivated as us or others. Below is the link if you like to check it out. People are meeting over Easter and we are hoping to get there also. Good luck with your vision and may you find what you are looking for. Pep
COPY OF EMAIL SENT FROM MAGPIE HOUSE....ETHERION Intentional Community Initiative based on the Anastasia/Ringing Cedar series of books.
NSW Northern Tablelands on 701 hectares (1734 acres), 1200m elevation.
Fantastic climate, 32C max ever, 900mm rainfall, very high light levels summer & winter.
*** THE MOST ENVIRONMENTAL STEP YOU'LL EVER TAKE FOR THE PLANET!!! ***
Meeting Sunday 8th March 5pm at Magpie House Upwey Victoria, see http://www.magpiehouse.com.au .
Meeting Saturday 11th April 2pm in Guyra township to visit land.
Homestead will overflow, so bring tents.
Also see http://www.magpiehouse.com.au/EcoVillage.htm for eco-village details.
What's different about the Ringing Cedar model? Why in just a few years has it inspired over 300 Kin's Domains in Russia based on this model? Why in 2004, did hand-tendered food gardens produce 51% of Russia's total agricultural output with only 7% of land, whereas mechanised artificially fertilised corporate farms produced only 43% using 83% of agricultural land?
Family domains of at least one hectare preserve individuality, self-sufficiency & personal responsibility & creativity, but retains supportive interdependence of a village. Like Russia, Australia has vast areas of monoculture & damaged cattle country "wastelands" which can be transformed into permanent culture gardens where the food resource requires no transport, there's no mortgages, few utilities, & excess produce provides income. If anyone is concerned about Rising Seas displacement, this is surely the joyful answer. We MUST focus on the POSITIVE aspects of (climate?) change, not the NEGATIVE, it's the collective consciousness which creates our reality. Contact us for books, they have a profound effect on readers & must be read for you to understand. You can start with the article "Eco-Villages & Anastasia's Truth about Rising Seas" on our eco-village website.
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Last edited by Peace2all; 03-04-2009 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Spelling
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