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Old 01-06-2010, 01:40 AM   #1
NorthernSanctuary
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Default Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qdu9yS6eFM
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:43 AM   #2
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

is this the bit thats free in the first hour??? cos mel goes nuts for copyright!! i dont know if he mind you copying the first hour free??? its the advert without the music?
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:51 AM   #3
NorthernSanctuary
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

There's 5 X 10 minutes. Here's the rest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juNsqe9daQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TdYMB4v5w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpAbYzBNKL8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ZMysrhwfc

I didn't copy it. I just found it.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:52 AM   #4
mntruthseeker
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by pineal-pilot-in merkabah View Post
is this the bit thats free in the first hour??? cos mel goes nuts for copyright!! i dont know if he mind you copying the first hour free??? its the advert without the music?

This was on you tube and pineal- did not copyright it so Mel has to go to you tube to check the source
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:11 AM   #5
Shikasta
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

I think this is the Veritas show of 18th Dec 09. Clif is not listed as being on Mel's show tonight/last night.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:53 AM   #6
Carol
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

I almost always listen to Cliff High's interviews 2 or 3 times. They are so packed with info it takes that much time to integrate them.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:43 AM   #7
manticore
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernSantuary View Post
I've said it before and have been very cordial and friendly about this. Anyone posting my copyrighted material is exposing himself/herself to legal liability.

I offer 50% of every show for free. Unfortunately, some people do not respect this and have lost their YouTube channel. This person has already been contacted and YouTube will act once again.

I hate to do this folks, but it seems that it is not enough to offer 50% of a show for free and some people find a way to copy and distribute my material without even asking.

I post a 5-minute preview where it directs everyone to listen to the first segment on my Web site. Anyone cutting, copying and pasting as they wish is simply violating my copyrights. Simple.

Mel
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by manticore View Post
I've said it before and have been very cordial and friendly about this. Anyone posting my copyrighted material is exposing himself/herself to legal liability.

I offer 50% of every show for free. Unfortunately, some people do not respect this and have lost their YouTube channel. This person has already been contacted and YouTube will act once again.

I hate to do this folks, but it seems that it is not enough to offer 50% of a show for free and some people find a way to copy and distribute my material without even asking.

I post a 5-minute preview where it directs everyone to listen to the first segment on my Web site. Anyone cutting, copying and pasting as they wish is simply violating my copyrights. Simple.

Mel
Personally I feel that information you have to pay for is suspect anyway. No wonder I don't know who Veritas is, no ones information is so valuable that I'll pay for it...[mod edit: personal attacks are against the forum quidelines]

Last edited by Karen; 01-06-2010 at 07:50 AM. Reason: personal attack
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:56 AM   #9
yiolas
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticore View Post
I've said it before and have been very cordial and friendly about this. Anyone posting my copyrighted material is exposing himself/herself to legal liability.

I offer 50% of every show for free. Unfortunately, some people do not respect this and have lost their YouTube channel. This person has already been contacted and YouTube will act once again.

I hate to do this folks, but it seems that it is not enough to offer 50% of a show for free and some people find a way to copy and distribute my material without even asking.

I post a 5-minute preview where it directs everyone to listen to the first segment on my Web site. Anyone cutting, copying and pasting as they wish is simply violating my copyrights. Simple.

Mel
Hi Manicore,
I respect and understand the copywrite issue and all of that. Plus, a guy's got'a make living. All I want to know though is, if Cliff was on the Veritas Show on 05/01/10.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:20 AM   #10
taomation
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

All of the videos have been removed by user
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:49 AM   #11
raulduke
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by yiolas View Post
All I want to know though is, if Cliff was on the Veritas Show on 05/01/10.
Negative.

The show that was posted was this one which is the authorized (i assume) first part that Mel releases free. It's from 12.18.09.

Clif's site has this message posted.

Quote:
Sorry, personal responsibilities make it necessary to cancel radio interivews for January.
Hope he's just workin on the boat or something. I always look forward to his interviews.

As far as Mel's subcrisption fee, I don't really see it as 'paying for information', rather paying for a service. I mean pretty much all the stuff that's covered is out there in some media form, and you could gather it yourself if you wanted to take the time, or you could pay a guy like mel a bit to bring it to you (that's not say you shouldn't scrutinize of course). It's a convenience kinda thing the way I see it.

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Old 01-06-2010, 10:56 AM   #12
Zeddo
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by AscendingStarseed View Post
Personally I feel that information you have to pay for is suspect anyway. No wonder I don't know who Veritas is, no ones information is so valuable that I'll pay for it...[mod edit: personal attacks are against the forum quidelines]
This is a personal opinion and not meant to be an attack.

So you never buy a book? You don't pay for your internet? I find your argument rather without credibility and somewhat shortsighted.

Merely posing a question and drawing a conclusion here.

Great work by cliff for what he is doing for the "alleged" hacker. Now THAT is doing something. That alone tells me who Veritas is and what they stand for.

Z
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:35 PM   #13
manticore
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

If anyone doesn't like my subscription model, don't listen. No one is forcing anyone to listen. Since when did $5.00 per month was such a crime? I have to pay expenses. Should authors give their books for free?

And yes, Clif does a great service for Gary McKinnon and so do I. I give free subscriptions to the less fortunate. Whenever someone donates a subscription, I match and donate one.

Also, if anyone transcribes a show, I give free subscriptions. Value for value. It is shortsighted to think otherwise. Some people just expect value without giving anything in return and that is wrong. Remember when commerce was done via barter?

Before you make an opinion, learn the facts. Ignorance can be cured with education. Also, everyone has free will. If anyone wants to create a show, feel free to do so. In the meantime, all I ask is for my work to be respected. No commercials. No sponsors. 50% of the show for free. Free subscriptions for transcriptions. Donations to the less fortunate. Is that not enough?

We live in paradigm where products and services cost money. Producing my show is absolutely not free. When the time comes and money is no longer an issue, I will operate differently.

Respectfully,

Mel

P.S. Unless anyone here is a trust fund baby, do you have to work for a living or should you work for free? And if you would work for free, how would you survive?

Last edited by manticore; 01-06-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:40 PM   #14
Luana
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

I have a great appreciation for the Veritas show. It's so nice not to have commercial interruptions and mindlessly comments and questions you get with other hosts.

Your doing an awesome job Mel, thank you.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:08 PM   #15
Thunderbird
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Here's some education.

436 members at $5.32 = $2319.52/mo

assuming 400 are actual paying members and that the .32 is for tax,
then walkin with $2000/mo before paying for bandwidth, site maintenance, hosting, etc.

I dont listen to the show since the subscriptions were implemented so i dont know if there are advertisers or not so lets assume there arent....

well then we could say the show pays for itself.
but mel has said that he has a family to take care of and such. So do i.
clearly a worthwhile goal.

question is:
is the current subscription model really working?

look at camelot.
everythings free.
rent is BARELY getting paid from we have been told.

is that model really working?

id say nay to both.
one has an abundance of viewers
the other not enough....

where is the balance?

im not raggin on anyone or their models.
im simply trying to find one that will work to really make an impact and yet be self sustaining and scalable.

camelot has a newsletter. they could provide the subscribers great discounts on things they would probably get anyway, like books or DVDs and maybe even survival gear.

camelot would get a comission.

this could if done right generate around 4-10 g's as needed.

it wouldnt have to be salesy or pushy but rather...."hey we found this great deal on this book that we both love and have learned a lot from. its discounted %20 for members of camelot. enjoy"

would camelot peeps be offended? i dont think so.
would people feel turned off? maybe a couple...

would $5 bucks times 1000 people be a bad income?
certainly would pay the rent for the month.

as long as the newsletter had valuable material and news and wasnt just the same thing thats on the site....in other words if people got value out of it it could be the model that everybody is looking for.

cause whats really important here?
making money off it?
or getting people awakened?

if done well....how bout both.

looky here!
value for free!

pearls to swine?
we shall see.....

as long as it helps the world....
it helps me.

enlightened self interest

-Your Friendly (albeit irreverent) Neighborhood Thunderbird
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:43 PM   #16
manticore
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
Here's some education.

is that model really working?

id say nay to both.
one has an abundance of viewers
the other not enough....
Thunderbird,

I don't think you're educating anyone with your statement. As a matter of fact, you are perpetuating the entitlement mentality. And based on what parameters do you conclude that a subscription model does not work? Project Camelot and Veritas are two different systems. We just do it differently and mutually respect each other's approach.

Would I want Veritas to be the only job I had? Absolutely! That is not the case yet, but I hope it will be in the future.

If someone wants to listen but cannot afford to pay, I'd be glad to add them to the subscription donation list. However, should someone receive value because they feel entitled to it?

Alternatives:
-Transcribe a show
-Offer some value

Some offerings:
-Subscriptions for the less fortunate
-No sponsors
-No commercials
-One hour+ of of each show free

If this is not enough, I don't know what else is. The key here THUNDERBIRD is the word VOLUNTARY. Someone who exercises free will and purchases a subscription, does it because he/she finds value. I hope your respect that.

Cheers,

Mel

P.S. Oh, and by the way, that number you quote (436) is just forum members. That is a totally separate system. Obviously, you went on an expedition trying to obtain information. You are welcome to ask me directly and I will provide you with facts. I don't hide. The majority of our members choose not to be part of the forum.

Last edited by manticore; 01-06-2010 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:55 PM   #17
Myplanet2
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticore View Post
The key here THUNDERBIRD is the word VOLUNTARY. Someone who exercises free will and purchases a subscription, does it because he/she finds value. I hope your respect that.

Cheers,

Mel
This comment leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my ears. If your promotional gimmicks weren't so obviously manipulative, it would be a different story. 5 min teaser. dumbed down 1st hour free. pay for the real content, except.... that it's bundled with 3 months of other stuff you may not be interested in. Plus the chasing people around with lawyers appears to come straight out of the "that's mine...that's mine...get your own..." mentality.

If someone wants to charge money for acting as a middle man, and putting potential buyers together with the actual creators of original value, that's one thing. But to manipulate people into buying more than the value they are interested in, is a practice which will follow other old paradigm practices down the toilet with a sigh of good riddance.

There'd be no complaint from me, if trick promo actions weren't used, and if the value one offered was available by itself. If I want Clif, I should be able to buy Clif, and nobody else packaged along for 15 times the cost.

MP2
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:14 PM   #18
gibonos
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Quote:
thunderbird
Here's some education.

436 members at $5.32 = $2319.52/mo

assuming 400 are actual paying members and that the .32 is for tax,
then walkin with $2000/mo before paying for bandwidth, site maintenance, hosting, etc.
with all due respect it's nobodys busieness how mel's enterprise is operating, what cost, how much etc.

Quote:
myplanet
This comment leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my ears. If your promotional gimmicks weren't so obviously manipulative, it would be a different story. 5 min teaser. dumbed down 1st hour free. pay for the real content, except.... that it's bundled with 3 months of other stuff you may not be interested in. Plus the chasing people around with lawyers appears to come straight out of the "that's mine...that's mine...get your own..." mentality.

If someone wants to charge money for acting as a middle man, and putting potential buyers together with the actual creators of original value, that's one thing. But to manipulate people into buying more than the value they are interested in, is a practice which will follow other old paradigm practices down the toilet with a sigh of good riddance.

There'd be no complaint from me, if trick promo actions weren't used, and if the value one offered was available by itself. If I want Clif, I should be able to buy Clif, and nobody else packaged along for 15 times the cost.
I'm sure that mel would want to give his work for free if there was no money, whatsoever. However he has his cost, his family, other expenses and he can charge, format and sell however he likes. If you don't approve, don't listen and don't complain.
Personally I think he delivers best interviews, with best questions and no one had clif thinking and hesitating as many times as mel. That's the hole issue here, if he wasn't so good people wouldn't complain.

Another thing, what if nothing happens in the near future, no change, no 2012, no nothing, one still has to feed family, would you donate if he was in trouble?

gibonos

Last edited by gibonos; 01-06-2010 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:57 PM   #19
Myplanet2
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by gibonos View Post
with all due respect it's nobodys busieness how mel's enterprise is operating, what cost, how much etc.

I'm sure that mel would want to give his work for free if there was no money, whatsoever. However he has his cost, his family, other expenses and he can charge, format and sell however he likes. If you don't approve, don't listen and don't complain.
Yes, he's free to choose how he operates, and if he's using manipulative business practices, anyone so inclined to do so, is free to point them out, so people can make informed decisions

Quote:
Personally I think he delivers best interviews, with best questions and no one had clif thinking and hesitating as many times as mel.
He doesn good interviews, although it is distracting when a guest starts talking about something, and Mel interrupts to say he wants to save that tidbit for the second (paid for) hour. And I wouldn't really call asking a guest a question in the free half, and answering it in the paid half good interviewing either.

Quote:
That's the hole issue here I he wasn't so people wouldn't complain.
what?

Quote:
Another thing, what if nothing happens in the near future, no change, no 2012, no nothing, one still has to feed family, would you donate if he was in trouble?
double what?? Mel can support his family any way he likes. Nobody objects to someone earning a living. It's using manipulative business practices and chasing people around with lawyers that smells. If the content stood on it's own, it could just be offered for sale. Packaging fluff interviews with desirable ones and charging for content one doesn't want in order to get content one does, is manipulative. And saying if you don't approve, don't listen and don't complain, is pretty

Quote:
gibonos
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:23 PM   #20
gibonos
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

myplaneet2
Quote:
what?

Quote:
That's the hole issue here I he wasn't so people wouldn't complain.
I corrected myself, it's really late for me ;-),
I'll respond to the rest tomorrow.

Stay worm
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

go for it my planet, thunderbird ,the only site I choose to subscribe to is redice, no teasers, ( hate that) no moaning and they give TONS away for free, I also think it's nice of them not to mind that mel has pretty much ripped off their site graphics /layout etc, wow ! or is it just uncanny how similar they look?
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/nonsubscriber.php
Mel, you must spend a lot of time on policing this copyright bs, you DON'T own the information, your guests do, and is it really worth your va£uable time ? You seem like a dog with a bone, I've never seen anyone so here there and everywhere on this nonsense. I notice you do not pay the people you interview, so right there that counts me out.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:05 PM   #22
manticore
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Originally Posted by Myplanet2 View Post
Yes, he's free to choose how he operates, and if he's using manipulative business practices, anyone so inclined to do so, is free to point them out, so people can make informed decisions

He doesn good interviews, although it is distracting when a guest starts talking about something, and Mel interrupts to say he wants to save that tidbit for the second (paid for) hour. And I wouldn't really call asking a guest a question in the free half, and answering it in the paid half good interviewing either.

what?

double what?? Mel can support his family any way he likes. Nobody objects to someone earning a living. It's using manipulative business practices and chasing people around with lawyers that smells. If the content stood on it's own, it could just be offered for sale. Packaging fluff interviews with desirable ones and charging for content one doesn't want in order to get content one does, is manipulative. And saying if you don't approve, don't listen and don't complain, is pretty
Let me understand this MyPlanet. You say that it is deceiving to have a 5-minute preview. If you are right in your definition, every Hollywood movie that gives you a 1- or 2-minute preview is deceiving. Furthermore, the fact that Hollywood does not allow you to watch half of the movie before you pay for it is? I'll let you add a description to that. You say I am deceiving and manipulative because I offer a preview to a show and offer half of it for free, so that people can make a more informed decision and exercise their free will and purchase a subscription or not.

Would you prefer it if the free hour was not available? You would probably find a way to complain and say that if you had known the show did not meet your expectations, you would not have subscribed. You see, to people like you, no matter how much you try to give for free, it will never be enough. You will find ways to use derogatory and negative remarks and insinuate that the purpose of my business model is to rip innocent people off.

What you and others who do not agree with this model are purposefully or selectively ignoring (since none has made any comment) is the fact that I give free subscriptions to the less fortunate and to those who provide value. What I don't do is spend countless hours researching my guests and working on the "behind the scenes" aspects of the show, so that people who can, but will not provide value/payment or do not fall in the "less fortunate" category, enjoy the fruit of my efforts.

I hope this clarifies any confusion that you still may have.

Best,

Mel

Last edited by manticore; 01-06-2010 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:08 PM   #23
TheChosen
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

I rarely get angry but yes now I am getting angry. People listen and listen well. Every day you are paying hard dollars at the gas station and you have no idea whatsoever that you don't have to pay that money... every day you pay your mortgage just because things are that way with no idea that it doesn't really have to be that way. (This obviously doesn't apply to everyone here but humanity in general)

It freakin makes me angry that out there humanity is getting ripped part, losing its soul while here on this forum where it is supposed to be with 'advanced' people there is even the discussion about paying a measly 5$ for information that is at the forefront of human understanding.

I am sorry .. but ... can I just ask ... what is wrong with you??? If you are so much against paying money .. go .. you have the chance.. devote 1% of what Mel is devoting to his show and make few transcriptions. You will get a double whammy .. a free subscription and a lot of positive karma for making even more information available to everyone ese.

Things like these want to make me leave this planet tomorrow and join the ET fractions that are lobying that humans don't deserve this beautiful planet.. because people like this prove their point perfectly...
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:29 PM   #24
manticore
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

Thanks Gibonos and TheChosen. It's refreshing to see how most people "get it".

Mel
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:57 PM   #25
Myplanet2
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Default Re: Cliff High on Veritas: Jan 5/2010

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Originally Posted by manticore View Post
Let me understand this MyPlanet. You say that it is deceiving to have a 5-minute preview. If you are right in your definition, every Hollywood movie that gives you a 1- or 2-minute preview is deceiving. Furthermore, the fact that Hollywood does not allow you to watch half of the movie before you pay for it is? I'll let you add a description to that. You say I am deceiving and manipulative because I offer a preview to a show and offer half of it for free, so that people can make a more informed decision and exercise their free will and purchase a subscription or not.

Would you prefer it if the free hour was not available? You would probably find a way to complain and say that if you had known the show did not meet your expectations, you would not have subscribed. You see, to people like you, no matter how much you try to give for free, it will never be enough. You will find ways to use derogatory and negative remarks and insinuate that the purpose of my business model is to rip innocent people off.

What you and others who do not agree with this model are purposefully or selectively ignoring (since none has made any comment) is the fact that I give free subscriptions to the less fortunate and to those who provide value. What I don't do is spend countless hours researching my guests and working on the "behind the scenes" aspects of the show, so that people who can, but will not provide value/payment or do not fall in the "less fortunate" category, enjoy the fruit of my efforts.

I hope this clarifies any confusion that you still may have.

Best,

Mel
Now lets not be putting words into my mouth, Mel. I have no confusions about this. No strawman arguments please.

First of all, are you actually saying that hollywood is NOT manipulative and deceptive? Hollywood will give you a 2 minute trailer with all the best action scenes, knowing full well that you'll be disappointed when you pay to watch the whole thing.

So tell me, do you have it clearly posted where it's hard to miss that people who start one of the interviews will get only so much, and then have to pay for the rest once they are interested? Do you say anywhere that is easy to find that "you can listen to a part now for free, but will have to pay a 3 month subscription which buys several interviews you may not be interested in, to listen to the other half of the interveiw"? Or do you hook people in, and then spring it on them that they have to pay to go any further? And even going so far as asking a question at the end of the first part that can't even be answered unless they buy 3 months of other stuff they are maybe not interested in?

Yes. I call deceptive and manipulative right out loud and up front.

How about Regina's model over at conscious media? She offers the choice to pay to hear the interviews now, but if you don't want to or can't pay, just wait a while, and it's released for free a little later. Others like Rense, or Rebecca jernigan permit a free live listen, but if you want to listen at YOUR convenience from the archives, you pay a bit.

Or you could charge a flat fee per interview, like iTunes.

Or keep the model you have, but don't deceive people into thinking they can listen to an interview, only to discover that they will have to pay for the second half, and not just for the second half, but for 3 months of other stuff. They clicked THAT interview because they were interested in THAT person. Tell them that ahead of time. Don't spring it on them when they are already hooked on the first half.

And what's up with telling guests to hold off on discussing certain things because you want to cover that in the second hour?

More manipulation, IMO.

MP2
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