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Old 11-15-2008, 05:47 PM   #126
TAXMASTER
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

the point is mike, if it is a fraudulent system, then do not participate in it at all. don't use money, don't trade labor for money, don't borrow money. i used these analogies to illustrate the concepts at it's simplest way. forget the friend the bank the house, these were tools to show you that you think it is ok to get something for nothing.

people such as yourself can twist it any way you want to as long as you get goods and services for nothing. you get a charge card and go to the store and buy a sweater and charge it. you now have a sweater that you did not have. you then claim that the credit card company is ripping you off with tremendous rates so that is your reason for not paying them. you are no different from someone that goes into the store and steals the sweater. in both instances, you got the sweater for nothing. at least when you stole the sweater you were up front about it. when you agreed to pay the credit card company for letting you charge items, and you failed to pay them then that means that you have no integrity. if you did not intend to pay back what you charged then you should not enter into that contract. you cannot control what the charge card company does right or wrong but you can control your actions.

it seems that those that think like yourself want to piece meal segments of what our society has to offer. you want to participate as long as you benefit for nothing in return. you want that new car but when the bank loans you the money to buy it, then because the bank is corrupt you don't want to pay them for it. you want something for nothing.

Namaste'
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:18 PM   #127
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAXMASTER View Post
the point is mike, if it is a fraudulent system, then do not participate in it at all. don't use money, don't trade labor for money, don't borrow money. i used these analogies to illustrate the concepts at it's simplest way. forget the friend the bank the house, these were tools to show you that you think it is ok to get something for nothing.

people such as yourself can twist it any way you want to as long as you get goods and services for nothing. you get a charge card and go to the store and buy a sweater and charge it. you now have a sweater that you did not have. you then claim that the credit card company is ripping you off with tremendous rates so that is your reason for not paying them. you are no different from someone that goes into the store and steals the sweater. in both instances, you got the sweater for nothing. at least when you stole the sweater you were up front about it. when you agreed to pay the credit card company for letting you charge items, and you failed to pay them then that means that you have no integrity. if you did not intend to pay back what you charged then you should not enter into that contract. you cannot control what the charge card company does right or wrong but you can control your actions.

it seems that those that think like yourself want to piece meal segments of what our society has to offer. you want to participate as long as you benefit for nothing in return. you want that new car but when the bank loans you the money to buy it, then because the bank is corrupt you don't want to pay them for it. you want something for nothing.

Namaste'
I'm sorry my friend, but you have absolutely no understanding of money, credit agreements, money creation mechanics, contract law, commerce or any of the related subjects that govern the way our monetary system works. You arguements are invalid because you are ignorant of how the system works. You are bringing forth simplistic, erroneous arguements without doing the research.

Our society has absolutely no hope for redemption whilst we allow privately owned banks to regulate and issue the "money" we need for the basics of survival.

Children will continue to starve, wars will continue to be fought, new technology will continue to be surpressed; misery and strife will plague us for now and evermore. If money could solve these problems, it would have done so hundreds of years ago. It cannot; it is in fact the cause of them.

This is why we are trying to show you and people like you that all is not what it seems. We have all been blinded to the truth.

I have no axe to grind. I have no personal debt. I do not borrow money. I attempt to withold my custom from organisations I know to be corrupt. But I can only do so much; at present I need the worthless pieces of paper money my labour returns in exchange for food to feed my family.

Please, please, please, do the research and at least look into what we are saying. If you and others like you do not, then you condemn us all to the tyranny of the banks.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:40 PM   #128
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

That is very smart of you to not have any debt nor credit cards. The usury on credit cards is immorally high and I fell into that temptation but I'm out of it now and paying back all our debts. We have considered closing out by paying just the principle and not the interest. I think that is fair at this point.

Aside from the regret of having fallen in the trap, it has woken me up to the something out of nothing mentality of some bankers. When the confidence goes it becomes nothing out of nothing.

I sure wish we had a jubilee year coming up soon.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:51 PM   #129
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

How money is created is all wrong
there is no doubt, about that
part of the "inside plan" to pull wool over our eyes
and, make a group of people, very rich

and, yet, we go to a job
and, earn the dollars
and, we go to the market, and, spend the dollars
and, if we utilise credit
there is a debtor/and, a creditor in that equation

once upon a time, we forged
our own money --

called The bronze dolphin coinages of ancient Olbia
are one of the most interesting bronze coinages
of the Black Sea area.

They are unique in both shape and format.

Olbia Thrace was located in the area of modern Bulgaria and Ukraine and was populated by Greek peoples.

It is interesting and quite unusual that the Olbians adopted a casting method and the dolphin shape rather than the traditional round coinage of their neighbors and indeed the entire Greek world.

The reason for this is fairly simple. It is common knowledge that even to this day there is a large population of bottlenose dolphins in the Black Sea and the native peoples would have seen these playful creatures almost daily. Bottlenose dolphins are the easy to train, playful dolphins that you will see in aquariums and water shows.

The Olbians evidently enjoyed the dolphins to the extent that they pattered their coinage after them. There may also have been a religious significance as ancient Greek Mythology places the dolphin, Delphinus, as the "Sacred Fish" which appears as a theme many times in Greek mythology.

Once a dolphin helped Poseidon locate the mermaid Amphitrite whom he brought back to his golden palace to be his Queen.

As a reward, Poseidon placed the dolphin in the constallation Delphinus. There are many instances of dolphins coming to the aid of sailors in peril so it is not completely unreasonable that they would have patterned their coinage in the shape of their beloved dolphins.

This series was minted from the fifth to third centuries BC and includes many varieties including some rarer issues with legends. Most of the dolphins are rather crudely cast but the better specimens show dorsal fins and eyes as well as a mid fin that runs along the body. It seem the casting method employed was a standard method adopted by the Celts in France who originated in this area. The dolphins were was in a tree connected by the tail, which is why you find so many short examples, the tails were trimmed off in a hurry to finish and get on to casting the next batch. Many premium examples will have a large blob at the end of the tail, which is actually part of the stem or casting tree. Some examples seem to be cast as singles as the tail is quite distinct and well formed which would point to a second form of casting or perhaps, as was the practice of the Celts of France, a second casting was made using an original piece as a copy.

and, when weights or measures were used
we pressed them from bronze/copper/silver and gold

maybe, we should go back to forging our own money

however, it all boils down
to eXchange --

How people make contracts-
and, the karma that comes out of it,
as, how you honour agreements
affects your karma

the way to solve it all
is, to STOP trading WITH THE BANDITS
and, eXchange
and, trade with ourselves

love/susan
the eXchanger
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Last edited by THE eXchanger; 11-16-2008 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:59 PM   #130
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

I have been admiring the self-sufficiency of the Amish and Mennonite people.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:44 PM   #131
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAXMASTER View Post
the point is mike, if it is a fraudulent system, then do not participate in it at all. don't use money, don't trade labor for money, don't borrow money.
You cant do much without our currency right now. I am actively participating less and less as time goes on and this is another area im hitting hard. Self sufficiency in areas of food and energy. Avoiding digital transactions as much as possible. Your statement reminds me of all the angry patriotic english folk who say "if you dont like our country then **** off home". Im not saying you say those things, just reminds me of it as these people dont know the difference between asylum seeker and illegal immigrant and you dont know how banking and debt works and refuse to listen to what people are openly spending time here trying to help people learn.

Quote:
people such as yourself can twist it any way you want to as long as you get goods and services for nothing. you get a charge card and go to the store and buy a sweater and charge it. you now have a sweater that you did not have. you then claim that the credit card company is ripping you off with tremendous rates so that is your reason for not paying them
Youve messed up big time there. I never mentioned anything to do with interest rates and i dont remember anyone here saying thats the reason either. Id be using the law to tackle it even at zero percent. And I am not twisting anything. I am exposing what has been twisted behind our backs and deceived us.

Quote:
you are no different from someone that goes into the store and steals the sweater. in both instances, you got the sweater for nothing. at least when you stole the sweater you were up front about it. when you agreed to pay the credit card company for letting you charge items, and you failed to pay them then that means that you have no integrity. if you did not intend to pay back what you charged then you should not enter into that contract. you cannot control what the charge card company does right or wrong but you can control your actions.
I think youre a lost cause. Theres apparantly no such thing as a lost cause but i cant see the light here. Dont bring integrity into it. Sorry have you completely missed the financial meltdown caused by the greed of bankers? Come back to our planet please. Nobody encouraged anyone to go out and apply for debt just to get things for 'free'. Which actually is incorrect if youd bother to read what is wrote here. The money belongs to you. Your promise to pay was converted into a deposit for you, hidedn from you and used when you buy things. all we are doing is simply deciding that we do not want to pay for it twice and we do not want to pay interest on it.

I havnt even started yet on actually claiming money back from the banks but that is a reality.

Quote:
it seems that those that think like yourself want to piece meal segments of what our society has to offer. you want to participate as long as you benefit for nothing in return
I suppose you want to work hard and pay your taxes? Is that right. Good luck to you. Im having trouble understanding how youre on the Avalon forum and dont agree with people wanting to keep the good bits of society and cast out the bad.

Quote:
you want that new car
Only a fool with too much money to burn buys a new car. It has to be the worse 'investment' known to man.

Quote:
but when the bank loans you the money to buy it
The bank isnt loaning any money, sorry for saying that for the fifth time.


Quote:
then because the bank is corrupt you don't want to pay them for it. you want something for nothing.
I dont want to pay them twice for it thats for sure.

Quote:
Namaste'
Same to you too dude. I know this is having an impact in that brain somewhere, putting so much energy into it just prooves your conditioning is fighting hard

www.tpuc.org - give that a go, i dare ya
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:50 PM   #132
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnosis5 View Post
I have been admiring the self-sufficiency of the Amish and Mennonite people.
Too true.

Susan. I love those dolphin coins. You may have strayed a bit off topic there

But yeah, as you know there are many people in villages and towns all over the world using their own currency. Like Lewes in England. Not many of them get media attention
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:47 PM   #133
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXchanger View Post
the way to solve it all
is, to STOP trading WITH THE BANDITS
and, eXchange
and, trade with ourselves

love/susan
the eXchanger
I agree. Money has had it's day. Exchange between individuals is incorruptible by a third party. New communities, new ways of doing things, focussing on what is REAL (LOVE, COOPERATION, HARMONY) and not FICTION (corporations, money, courts, politics, laws, etc, etc...); this is what we need.
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:58 AM   #134
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacelovinman View Post
I agree. Money has had it's day. Exchange between individuals is incorruptible by a third party. New communities, new ways of doing things, focussing on what is REAL (LOVE, COOPERATION, HARMONY) and not FICTION (corporations, money, courts, politics, laws, etc, etc...); this is what we need.
Yep, what real free trade is supposed to actually be when they talk about it.

Free trade is more free reign for the elite
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:30 PM   #135
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

This will be my last post on this issue. you cannot teach ethics or morality. this thread was started to let people know that the credit agreements that they made may be unenforceable by the credit institutions. While it is alarming how many people have gotten theirselves into debt and the rates of interest and other charges can be very high and even unethical. I am not here to defend those institutions or their practices. I am making a statement about honoring one's agreement. for if you enter into an agreement to receive or get something on a condition that later you must pay or do something, then you must honor that agreement. If the agreement is unfair, then don't make the agreement. If the agreement is unfair and you make the agreement, then honor your end of the contract and chalk it up to education and learn from it.

The points I was making were simplistic sure but the truth is there if you look for it. The credit institutions do not issue you credit unless you promise to pay the debt. the key words are "PROMISE TO PAY". You do not end up in debt unless you purchased something of value or something that you valued at that time. You knew what the rules were because you signed the contract, if you didn't read the contract then that is too bad because in the print it clearly states that you have read and understand the contract.

Now let us talk about my expertise. You say that I don't understand how money is made. That I need to do research. Well my friend, you know nothing about me. I fully understand how money is created and I fully understand that our currency is a fiat system with nothing backing it. I am not naive, for I understand it all. As a CPA, and CFP, and a Licensed NASD broker, I have had years of wheeling and dealing in the world of money. I have bought and sold busnesses and have made and lost millions.

In all my travels, I have learned to size up a man (sorry ladies) by one thing. His integrity. You cannot buy integrity. Integrity is sometimes not on the side of the law. It has its own virtue and rules. Integrity follows the rules of Karma. I shall not speak again on this thread.

Namaste,
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:42 PM   #136
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

From the original post on this issue, I read in the paper the other day that the couple had lost a court case trying to write off all their debts. They were quite successful, of the £120,000 they owed, they got it down to £20k.

Not bad, but then the Judge ruled against the basis of their claim and they had to pay Court costs............guess what, it was £100k, so they were back to where they started.

I must admit that it made me laugh a lot.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:17 AM   #137
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAXMASTER View Post
This will be my last post on this issue. you cannot teach ethics or morality. this thread was started to let people know that the credit agreements that they made may be unenforceable by the credit institutions. While it is alarming how many people have gotten theirselves into debt and the rates of interest and other charges can be very high and even unethical. I am not here to defend those institutions or their practices. I am making a statement about honoring one's agreement. for if you enter into an agreement to receive or get something on a condition that later you must pay or do something, then you must honor that agreement. If the agreement is unfair, then don't make the agreement. If the agreement is unfair and you make the agreement, then honor your end of the contract and chalk it up to education and learn from it.

The points I was making were simplistic sure but the truth is there if you look for it. The credit institutions do not issue you credit unless you promise to pay the debt. the key words are "PROMISE TO PAY". You do not end up in debt unless you purchased something of value or something that you valued at that time. You knew what the rules were because you signed the contract, if you didn't read the contract then that is too bad because in the print it clearly states that you have read and understand the contract.

Now let us talk about my expertise. You say that I don't understand how money is made. That I need to do research. Well my friend, you know nothing about me. I fully understand how money is created and I fully understand that our currency is a fiat system with nothing backing it. I am not naive, for I understand it all. As a CPA, and CFP, and a Licensed NASD broker, I have had years of wheeling and dealing in the world of money. I have bought and sold busnesses and have made and lost millions.

In all my travels, I have learned to size up a man (sorry ladies) by one thing. His integrity. You cannot buy integrity. Integrity is sometimes not on the side of the law. It has its own virtue and rules. Integrity follows the rules of Karma. I shall not speak again on this thread.

Namaste,
You'd be wasting your time. They don't want to know.

But, you are completely correct.

At least I understand your stance.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:11 AM   #138
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

There is no lack of understanding from 'our' part to understand your point of view because I would have said exactly what you are saying if I was sitting here logging on 2 years ago before I gained the knowledge that people here are trying to help you to see. It doesnt surprise me that you dont wish to comment further as your reasoning only goes as far as arguing the integrity of honoring a contract when you have no idea what laws were broken and which facts were hidden in the creation of this contract.

You emphasise the contract but in doing so show you have no idea how contract law works, you would know that full disclosure must be provided and this is just one item which is hidden which is not supposed to be hidden as it exposes the unlawful game they play.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:33 AM   #139
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

I don't care about any of that.

What I care about is my integrity and morality, and yours too.

I feel morally bound to honour my obligations to the best of my ability and why shouldn't I?

It matters not, on a personal level, what rules have been broken and where the lender got the money from. All that matters, is that in reality, as in you the customers reality, the reality that actually matters, you have money to buy something that you did not have, and you owe it back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah but they didn't lend you it in the first place. Oh, they did. They really did.

All you're basically saying in Layman's terms is that their agreement with you is pretty much worthless. So don't pay the money back.

The bottom line is after that it is a choice. A choice that thankfully I don't need to make, but if I did have to make it I would make the right choice.

I'll give you this, your information must be very attractive to somebody in a terrible debt situation. A way out if you like.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:52 PM   #140
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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I don't care about any of that.
Sorry to bore you with the facts. Without understanding the facts the ethics and integrity are a blank consideration.

Quote:
It matters not, on a personal level, what rules have been broken and where the lender got the money from
The banks & The mafia. At least when people borrowed from the mob the money actually existed in the 1st place. So youre saying it doesnt mater where they got the money from. Ignorance must be bliss. How do people with your mindset even land on this forum/Camelot. Its like saying, "well yeah sure theres a bunch of folk controlling lots of things in the background which cause massive death and destruction all around the world but what do i care, I am still warm and have an income and can eat" Yes its an exageration and this is the exact mindset that a lot fo the public have.


Quote:
All that matters, is that in reality, as in you the customers reality, the reality that actually matters, you have money to buy something that you did not have, and you owe it back.
Again I will repeat myself. Its your money that was used to buy the goods on the credit card. Or the cash that was created by you to buy the car.

Quote:
Yeah, yeah, yeah but they didn't lend you it in the first place. Oh, they did. They really did.
No they didnt. Dudes levitate in the street and take the heads off doves and put them back on again and the dove lives. Its a wonderful illusion.

Quote:
All you're basically saying in Layman's terms is that their agreement with you is pretty much worthless. So don't pay the money back.
Thats probably way beyond laymens terms but yes. The physical original agreement is not worthless though. This cna be proved by paying off a credit card, closing the account and asking for your original signed agreement to be returned. Its almost certanly not possible because it has been sold. Ask yourself why your signed agreement cant be returned. In fact, if youve had a card in the past ask your lender for it. And why would a signed piece of paper be worth anything?

Quote:
I'll give you this, your information must be very attractive to somebody in a terrible debt situation. A way out if you like.
Ofcourse. We have had people on the verge of bankruptcy ultimately save the 600 a month they were paying out immediately while they tackled the lenders with the right questions and demands backwards and forwards.

Like I said before, its no massive secret, its just the result of some major studying and understanding of the law and is only one small part of our overall picture. Not the Law that students are taught. Well in fact yes its the same law but we dont have the education system conditioning us into a certain mindset. Obviously many members joined initially for debt reasons.

If you continue to think that the money was created from thin air and THEN belonged to the bank to lend then the first hurdle will carry on catching you out. Ask yourself something else. Why are the days gone, where you had to sit with the bank manager to argue your case for a loan even though you may have a large disposable income and secure job and this was easily proven back then. The chances are the banks were playing by the rules and were in fact lending their assets which were a multiplication of deposits held. Who knows. What we do know is that there were massive and almost suddent changes in banking that resulted in banks being able to lend to anyone with no risk.

Ask yourself this. Why is confidence more important than people not paying?

Why is confidence the most important factor in deciding how safe the current banking system is. Surely people no longer paying would be more important than a small percentage of customers taking cash out. NOPE

No asset is at risk when people dont pay. If any asset was at risk then getting hold of the cash in the 1st place wouldnt be so easy.

So please dont say again that they lent you the money because they never.

Im deep in this myself. Its not just talk for me. I have a 48 hour deadline to file my defence to court for a debt. I will keep you posted on the outcome.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:06 PM   #141
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Are you unable to pay or unwilling to pay Mike?
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:31 PM   #142
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Are you unable to pay or unwilling to pay Mike?
I am able and willing to pay upon production of required (by law) documents
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:27 AM   #143
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

[QUOTE=Average Joe;82014]I don't care about any of that.

What I care about is my integrity and morality, and yours too.

I feel morally bound to honour my obligations to the best of my ability and why shouldn't I?

QUOTE]

How much does that cost again?

Im pretty sure your doomed from the onset and that those morals and ethics your spouting are guilt instilled by those running the game and making the rules. If we all had no compassion or guilt about being good little slaves for the evil banksters, they would be outa bizness!
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:58 PM   #144
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

I have had my agreement audited and re-audited and it is found to be in breach of the consumer credit act 1974 and the bank will be challenged on the basis that it is unenforcable therefore non repayable.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:41 PM   #145
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Credit Cards; No Need to Pay...you already have!

http://www.thetruthwillout.com/common_law.html
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:10 PM   #146
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

ThinkFREE is dedicated to helping achieve a freer and more just society, where authority is achieved without deception and exercised with restraint, understanding, accountability and compassion. We employ satire, comedy shows, guerrilla videography, Notarial justice, advocacy, public action and dance.
www.thinkfree.ca
www.thinkfreeforums.org
http://www.thetruthwillout.com/

“Think Free – Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception”
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...29835&q=&hl=en

“Think Free – The Magnificent Deception”
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...K4jPmDCw&hl=en

The great FREE pdf book by Mary Elizabeth Croft;http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/f...mary_croft.pdf
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:40 AM   #147
reikione
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6
Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Anyone from Michigan in the Liberty Wealth Club? I'm currently listening to their conference call. Anyone know where I can get this information without joining the club?
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