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Old 11-11-2008, 07:27 PM   #101
Mike_Jetson
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

edit - Im just reading all the other posts after the ones quoted below. If i did i wouldnt have had to write so much as others have started explaining it a bit too, with links

Im going to enjoy this post as I will be sharing information that is not easy to come across. Firstly, baggywrinkle and Avg joe, and anyone who is still arguing about energy and what not, I will not be explaining this again as if you read my words correctly in this read you would understand by now. I will edit the people im quoting to highlight the most important points i agree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacelovinman View Post

Some years ago I managed to get myself out of all personal debt

3) Because I DETEST the immoral banking system.

This money is backed by nothing of worth - it is "fiat" currency.

I suggest you read "Spiritual Economics: How I Clobbered Every Bureaucratic Cash-Confiscatory Agency Known To Man" by Mary Elizabeth: Croft. You can download it for free from various places on the net.

If I spend $ 10,000 on my credit card, who has actually loaned me the money? No-one! It's just credit that has been created by my signature.

Lastly, a question for Mike. I quite like the sound of the Liberty Wealth Club but I have fallen victim to some of these network marketing scams before.

Does the club offer something of real value or does it just teach people a "system" whereby you get paid for recruiting people into the system?

Does it provide worthwhile financial information to their members in return for a fee, with those members that recommend others to join being paid a small commission or residual on their subscription (nothing wrong with that in my book)...

or...

Do they simply show you how to make money by recruiting people into the system who, in order to make money, have to recruit others with no actual worthwhile service or product being offered (a con, in my book)?
Excellent questions. Firstly, Mary Croft. This is almost mandatory reading for LWC members. This is exactly what we are about and we are active in practicing what she preaches. If anyone wants a copy emailing just ask me. I have a new version which has all the same info but has been organised in a much better way to get through quicker. Its just better

Pyramid schemes, also known as cash gifting schemes only make people money by recruiting others into it, there is no other way of explaining it, this is why they are ILLEGAL. Anyone watching Watchdog in the UK last night would have seen ex-Apprentice girl (black girl cant remember her name) getting lynched by the BBC for holding a 'networking meeting' of ladies where they pay £1000 to join and advance up alevel when they have recruited 8 themselves before paying £3000 to the next level. There is no product, people at the bottom who fail to get anyone involved will have lost their £1000 and have nothing whatsoever to show for it. Pyramid schemes use the positive side of multi level marketing and network marketing to make the ambitious folk a lot of money while people who cant lie have trouble promoting it. Ive seen many before and am thankful ive never lost out to any before.

This is also why we get this question a lot because people are wary of anything that rewards you for getting more people involved.

We at Liberty Wealth put honesty, integrity, truth and freedom before everything else. We never ever sell anything. We simple show folk what is available and wait for them to say they are in. Put it this way. At the very first step, we have a package known as Foundation of Freedom, its an investment of £650. We can easily give this information away for free (as helping people help themselves is our 'goal' and becoming service to others is the ultimate reward) but you need an incentive to put our knowledge into practice rather than having it sitting on a shelf while you are a slave to monthly pay day. To non members this is £1250. Its obvious that joining the club at the same time as investing in the package is better than investing twice as much without joining.

Here is part of what the Foundations of Freedom is about (more but i cant remember whilsy typing):-

* Credit Cancellation & Remedy
* Building Blocks of Freedom
* Our Economic Heritage
* Conditioning of Man & The World
* The Gold Standard
* Asset Protection
* Offshore Havens
* Government & Economic History
* Law & Taxes
* Present Day Strategies
* Future Seminars - What to Expect

Initially its amazing and just gets better. Cash gifting/pyramid schemes simply dont have worthwhile products. We dont even ask that people recruit others. Some of our members make the initial investment and are gone forever or maybe go to a seminar for advanced teaching then go off and make their own money outside the club, or spend months studying our material and researching related stuff on their own before deciding to make money from helping more folk get free. Usually the ones that have cancelled their unsecured credit are keen to spread the word. Put it this way, without real worth, youd be reluctant to get friends and family involved because if its false promises then youve lost more than their trust. I have trouble keeping this in when I meet new people. I try so hard but when people say "so what do you do" I can only pretend that Im a property developer for so long. Probably because im barely spending any time with renovation right now.

You can study the main site. My splash page is now online at
http://www.freedomandwealth.co.uk You can enter your email for regular info and free products such as Marys book etc. My tel numbers, skype etc are all on there and Im happy to answer questions any time.

But going back to original thread idea. This is different to us. We dont exploit legal loopholes. We simply expose where real laws have been broken by banks for many years and use the power of the law to play their game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
But that does not address the exchange of energy
No one wants to talk about that aspect
It took labor and materials to build that television. You need to come up with an equivalent amount of energy or goods to compensate the builders for their effort. Or you need to build your own television.
This is how 'the system' works. Its actually how a secured credit facility works. You deposit an asset and the bank agrees to give it value and gives you 'money'. Your asset doesnt have to be what we call 'cash' You could pay in a gold watch for example. When you the 'money' back you get your assset back.

Fast forward to banking fraud. Your application form with signature (loan or card) is then stamped on the reverse with a value. Just like a note would be stamped and attached to your gold watch with the amount of 'money' of value attached to it. Instead of the gold watch which has value, the bank use your 'promise to pay' which is in fact the application form and assign a value to this. This value could be any number. They usually decide on a value based on risk of you not paying. The risk is not their risk of losing money. The risk is the risk of you simply not being able to pay your alleged 'debt'.

Now that your application has been converted into an asset, this asset is paid into a deposit account. When you buy something in a store, the retailer keeps the receipt (bill of exchange / promise to pay). This is then paid into a bank minus a fee and the retailer gets 'money' so this widescreen TV you talk about has been paid for. Energy allocated. The bank sells the bill to Visa/Mcard minus a small fee and Visa/Mcard sell it back to your credit card company/bank minus a small fee. So in effect, your asset has been exchanged for goods but a few banks have acted as middlemen along the way making money from it.

Best bit. You get a statement in the post asking you for the full value. You pay for the item again, plus any interest if you dont pay immediately.

Ask yourself, why do credit cards have no fee any more and good payers are seen to use the service for free and cost the bank money? Its not because they are hoping you suddenly stop paying or are making too much money from non fast payers to care. They are making money from every single transaction.

Imagine if you started making fake money, youd be in jail if caught. This is why the law can work for us because it has been broken by them. It just takes time and some studying and thankfully having a lot of people on hand with the same goal helps.

Im done

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Old 11-11-2008, 08:16 PM   #102
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Regarding using the law to your benefit.

Credit cards have three income streams.

They get paid at the point of purchase by the vendor
They make money from the various fees.
They make money from interest on outstanding balances.

We have eliminated the second two streams for over a year now by taking advantage of the grace period. In effect, we cut ourselves an interest free loan which we use to earn interest in our HELOC. We purchase EVERYTHING on credit card. I have not carried cash in years. The money needed to pay off the balance at the end of the grace period remains in the HELOC (or in an interest bearing checking account) until the last possible day before default. We are using the HELOC to pay off our mortgage. By leaving the credit card money in the HELOC we earn "negative interest" that we will not have to pay at a rate currently of five percent. When we started it was eight percent. Payments are done electronically to allow the money to work for us until the last possible moment. Since our HELOC and our credit cards are with the same bank that is the date due.
Transfers in house take one day.

The electronic transfer is also important out of house. By law it must occur in the U.S within three days. This circumvents the hold used by banks to to make interest on your payment while it "clears" the bank.

A last way to use their own regulations against them is the rewards card. Cash rewards using this system build up. My son makes 900 dollars extra by doing business in this way. He has a second card that collects travel points, using it for one or two free trips every year.

That is too fancy for my blood. We are totally focused on being mortgage free in seven years or less shaving twenty three years off a thirty year mortgage and saving over seventy thousand fiat dollars in interest not paid.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:21 PM   #103
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
"If you want to play the game and pay back money that they never lent you"... Come on man.

You get a loan off a bank, its in your account, they lent you it! You owe it! Its money that you never had before you signed the form!

On another note, I'm increasingly disappointed at the "blame culture" that has sprung up in the last 10-20 years, and that blame culture is alive and kicking on this forum.
.
How many more times will you miss the point entirely even after more than 2 members have explained to you how it works? Apologies for being so abrupt.

"You get a loan off a bank" - This alone doesnt even happen. Its like me pissng on you and telling you its raining. Or stealing your wife and inviting you to the engagement party. Read Mary Croft! and my post above
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:25 PM   #104
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
Regarding using the law to your benefit.

Credit cards have three income streams.

They get paid at the point of purchase by the vendor
They make money from the various fees.
They make money from interest on outstanding balances.

We have eliminated the second two streams for over a year now by taking advantage of the grace period. In effect, we cut ourselves an interest free loan which we use to earn interest in our HELOC. We purchase EVERYTHING on credit card. I have not carried cash in years. The money needed to pay off the balance at the end of the grace period remains in the HELOC (or in an interest bearing checking account) until the last possible day before default. We are using the HELOC to pay off our mortgage. By leaving the credit card money in the HELOC we earn "negative interest" that we will not have to pay at a rate currently of five percent. When we started it was eight percent. Payments are done electronically to allow the money to work for us until the last possible moment. Since our HELOC and our credit cards are with the same bank that is the date due.
Transfers in house take one day.

The electronic transfer is also important out of house. By law it must occur in the U.S within three days. This circumvents the hold used by banks to to make interest on your payment while it "clears" the bank.

A last way to use their own regulations against them is the rewards card. Cash rewards using this system build up. My son makes 900 dollars extra by doing business in this way. He has a second card that collects travel points, using it for one or two free trips every year.

That is too fancy for my blood. We are totally focused on being mortgage free in seven years or less shaving twenty three years off a thirty year mortgage and saving over seventy thousand fiat dollars in interest not paid.
Exactly

But if you think those 3 income streams are the only ones you simply have not seen the one they hold on to in the back room

To believe a blood sucking evil bank would let folk take money away from them in way of cashback and rewards is naive. But most people who work this system believe. I did until I learned the truth.

We have a lender or two over here in the UK that lets you reduce your mortgage interest and amount oweing with cash you have with them saved and deposited. Your HELOC is almost the same as our 'One account'
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:50 PM   #105
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by Mike_Jetson View Post
How many more times will you miss the point entirely even after more than 2 members have explained to you how it works? Apologies for being so abrupt.

"You get a loan off a bank" - This alone doesnt even happen. Its like me pissng on you and telling you its raining. Or stealing your wife and inviting you to the engagement party. Read Mary Croft! and my post above
Apologies for being even blunter, but how many times will you miss my point? We could do this all day. Actually no we couldn't, because I give up.

So, £650 or £1,250 of your hard earned to cancel your debts eh? And can you guarantee to get out of ALL debts? I bet you can't.

£650 or £1,250 you have to pay for the privelidge of ripping your creditors off?

Splendid.

I'm done here.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:50 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
Apologies for being even blunter, but how many times will you miss my point? We could do this all day. Actually no we couldn't, because I give up.

So, £650 or £1,250 of your hard earned to cancel your debts eh? And can you guarantee to get out of ALL debts? I bet you can't.

£650 or £1,250 you have to pay for the privelidge of ripping your creditors off?

Splendid.

I'm done here.
Ha hell no. You still believe they are loosing something dont you?

Like I said, in no way at all is our club a debt cancellation service. Its a flow blown financial education programme and then some. Millionaires dont even have a clue about half of what we teach.

In fact just to prove a point id be happy to spend time writing letters backwards and forwards for you just to show you how the banks are acting outside of the law and how we act inside of the law when challenging them.

I know we cant do this as you have no debt. Im not selling anything, it just so happens that I saw this thread and dont like seeing people advertise themselves for getting rid of 70 percent of folks debt because of legal 'loopholes' and errors in the agreement etc. Its just not what we do. We go much deeper and ethics and honesty are too important for us.

Oh and in this world there are no guarantees and I make no promises but if one of own friends or family get into financial trouble and are pretty guaranteed to default then I will help them out with what I know. Corruption is everywhere as you know. The judges are involved too but they cant bend their own rules too much or else they get exposed so we have to bery careful when we play their game.

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Old 11-13-2008, 08:45 AM   #107
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
Apologies for being even blunter, but how many times will you miss my point? We could do this all day. Actually no we couldn't, because I give up.

So, £650 or £1,250 of your hard earned to cancel your debts eh? And can you guarantee to get out of ALL debts? I bet you can't.

£650 or £1,250 you have to pay for the privelidge of ripping your creditors off?

Splendid.

I'm done here.
They are not your creditors, that is the point. They cannot show you the accounting to that effect, that is the point. You are making no effort to research the matter fully, simply relying on what you think to be true.

This is what keeps the human race in bondage, a complete inability to challenge established thought patterns and ways of doing things. I am reminded of the Wright Brothers and the fact nobody would take them seriously when they said they had built a flying machine; nobody would even take a look for years. After all, nothing heavier than air would fly, or so they thought at the time...
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:16 AM   #108
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by alternative-answer View Post
i have decided to that this is the best option to clear my credit card, they have told me i will be able to stop paying in a couple of weeks as i will be in dispute with the bank.
does this work in canada?
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:33 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Mike_Jetson View Post
Nobody has lost 10 grand. Here:-

"First you must understand that in our money system there are no funds because there is technically, no money. There is only debt and debt instruments that are used in place of money. They used your name to create a trust with themselves named as trustees, and they have used that trust as collateral on the national debt. That collateralization is in an asset account for the trust after it was monetized on the world money market. The process #3 establishes YOUR right as the trustor and takes that trust back under your control. Under your control you can transfer trust assets to the trust debt account, thereby discharging the debt.

You next must understand that the debt is not yours personally. You have, since you began doing money transactions, functioned as a voluntary fiduciary representative for that trust account, paying its bills with your own phony money. When you set up your first checking account, you accepted this relationship with the trust the government had set up in your name. You have not had control of this trust because you never claimed it and your parents could not control it for you because they were wards of the State like you. "

Research Fractional Reserve Banking. Banks at one point could lend £9 for every £1 they took on deposit. The problem is, when that £9 is paid back into the bank, the banks decides to multiply it by £9 again. In one step all this money has appeared from £1

The only reason we hit crisis this time around was a lack of confidence among banks. If they has stuck to the fractional reserve banking ratio then it wouldnt matter so much when debtors had trouble paying. They would hold enough cash on deposit to cover it. Not if they have unlawfully bypassed the system and created way too much 'money' from fresh air.

This is not about a loophole. Its about the law being broken by the creators of debt
Money only works if people have trust and confidence and that is disappearing. There goes the great god of materialism.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:52 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by zorgon View Post
Back in Canada I had occasion to help a friend through debt crisis... one case went to court...

When the Judge came in he made a little speech. He told the creditors not to expect sympathy from the court...

His reason? The creditor obviously made the loan easy to get without checking to see if the person had the ability to repay... Credit companies make it so easy to get in on purpose...

The courts do NOT favor the guy wanting his money back. This is why most companies will easily settle for 50% of the original.

Also a court will never collect accrued interest... only the initial debt will be considered...

Obviously saying "STOP BUYING ON CREDIT" comes to mind... but that is not the reality of todays market. If we stopped doing that tomorrow, the financial world would indeed crumble over night

Not paying back your debt does not hurt the company, as they can write off the entire amount from their taxes... so only the tax man gets hurt...

And I doubt many will sympathize with him

THEY set up this debt system, not us... WE are made victims not by choice...

For the few who can break away... congratulations but the rest do not know how...


Mortgage... instead of that shopping spree, put 100.00 extra a month on the principal... (or more if you can) In a short time you will not miss that 100.00 as it becomes routine...

Another idea.... (we do this) make 100 envelopes... mark them 1 to 100...
Now any extra cash you get... say a yard sale, a little side job or money you feel you can set a side... start filling the envelopes... $1,000.00 each

As soon as one is full... put it on the principal... because if you leave it around the house you will spend it

As long as you make a conscious effort you will be amazed at how your mortgage shrinks

Past Debt... I do not know if this works out side Canada or the USA... but there is a law that allows you to contact the credit bureaus and get your report Here in the US we have three main ones...

As soon as you get the lists... WRITE A PROTEST on every item on the list...

By law the credit bureau now is obligated to verify the debt. They do this by contacting the original debtor and requesting confirmation of the debt...

The debtor has 30 (maybe 60) days to respond. IF THEY DO NOT RESPOND then the credit reporting agency MUST remove it from your credit history

When we bought our house... the finance company we used did this for us. Like the OP stated 70% of them literally vanished, the rest all settled for 50%

Here is what happens...

Company A you owe 500.00 or less... after one year of no activity they sell off the account to a collection agency for a percentage of the debt.

At this point they have written you off literally on their taxes. The collection agency takes a gamble that they can harass you into paying... In most cases it works... or they would not be in business

After a year this agency sells it to another agency, again at a percentage... the lower down the food chain the nastier they get

So if you protest and the ORIGINAL debtor has washed his hands of it and already processed it in the books... it comes off you credit report...

Also if there has been no activity on a debt, after 4 years it is removed and no longer collectible. Though be aware that some can still check back 7 years... but no longer...

As they say "Time heals many wounds"

Now I am not showing you this so you can go out and do something stupid, but to show those that are in serious debt a way out. It takes diligence and effort but you don't need to pay someone to do this. A credit report is free on yourself (3 or 4 times a year I believe)

Countrywide mortgage helped us this way, and I am sure other realtors do the same for their clients.


Next installment... Once you cleaned up your past, how to build it up again...


Pardon me, but if it goes to court and the judge says you owe the money then the creditor will garnish your wages, will he not?
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:03 PM   #111
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Yes this 'works' in Canada. Its all based on the same type of law. In fact Id say its easier in the US too than here in the UK

The judge knows exactly what is going on which is why you cant just turn up and say they created money from air so you dont owe it, its much more complicated and you need to understand exactly when you are contracting with someone and when you are not, etc

If the judge finds in their favour then youve messed up somewhere. The judge can only bend his own rules so much because depending on what you do and say he wont be able to do it because he is lmited by his own laws.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:53 PM   #112
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Yes this 'works' in Canada. Its all based on the same type of law. In fact Id say its easier in the US too than here in the UK

The judge knows exactly what is going on which is why you cant just turn up and say they created money from air so you dont owe it, its much more complicated and you need to understand exactly when you are contracting with someone and when you are not, etc

If the judge finds in their favour then youve messed up somewhere. The judge can only bend his own rules so much because depending on what you do and say he wont be able to do it because he is lmited by his own laws.

From what I have learnt, you need to know the process in exact detail if you are going to challenge credit agreements, let alone go to court.

Once you step into a courtroom, you are in "their" domain. If you do not know how to handle yourself and have not educated yourself as to the language they use ("legalese"), you will get no-where.

Much information is to be found at www.thinkfree.ca.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:03 PM   #113
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From what I have learnt, you need to know the process in exact detail if you are going to challenge credit agreements, let alone go to court.

Once you step into a courtroom, you are in "their" domain. If you do not know how to handle yourself and have not educated yourself as to the language they use ("legalese"), you will get no-where.

Much information is to be found at www.thinkfree.ca.
Im ready to rock n roll.

Conditional Acceptance is a nice way of 'discussing' in court
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:26 PM   #114
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

To anybody who still accepts that "money" has some kind of value, even heads of banks in court admit that, in the case of a mortgage, the money DOES NOT EXIST until a mortgage is created and a promise to pay it back is obtained.

This landmark case has been supressed; read all about it here:


http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-it-Poss...id?&id=1069976
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:49 PM   #115
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To anybody who still accepts that "money" has some kind of value

http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-it-Poss...id?&id=1069976
They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work....

Sorry couldn't resist


Ahh yes, the credit river decision.

While you are at it, don't forget the ongoing Robert Kahre tax fraud case.
http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2007/10...ax-is-a-fraud/

Robert paid his employees in junk silver coins at face value. The employees
would then exchange the coins for the spot rate of silver. IRS called foul.
It resulted in a hung jury. The case is ongoing.

It would seem to come down to who has the biggest guns.

Sherry Peale Jackson (show me the law) was convicted (framed)
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:30 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work....

Sorry couldn't resist


Ahh yes, the credit river decision.

While you are at it, don't forget the ongoing Robert Kahre tax fraud case.
http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2007/10...ax-is-a-fraud/

Robert paid his employees in junk silver coins at face value. The employees
would then exchange the coins for the spot rate of silver. IRS called foul.
It resulted in a hung jury. The case is ongoing.

It would seem to come down to who has the biggest guns.

Sherry Peale Jackson (show me the law) was convicted (framed)
Thats true

Its a game and we are approaching the 85th minute(soccer/football) and are 3 goals down but the players have just realised the ref has been paid so are trying to get the game cancelled before the final whistle blows. We cannot possibly 'win' we can only prevent ourselves from losing until the game is destroyed and a fair game is created.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:29 AM   #117
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned - sorry if it has but there is an excellent video called "money as debt" on google, everyone who hasn't seen it should-it explains fractional reserve banking and how the money is created out of thin air...it's really not about morals when it comes to banks people. The banks exist to enslave us, period. C'mon yall.

If I borrow $500 from a friend, you bet I am morally responsible for paying it back - my friend doesn't charge interest and use that $500 to tell other people she has $5,000 to lend out, at interest. This is what banks do continuously.

If the game is rigged and the creators of the game cheat, how is it that minor players are required to play by the rules the cheaters set up to give themselves the advantage??

What some of you have been saying essentially is that the game is rigged, yeah, but we play so we have to play by the rules, even though the creators of the game cheat. Hm.

Why?

Watch that movie, it really nails it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:41 AM   #118
Mike_Jetson
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by pilot View Post
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned - sorry if it has but there is an excellent video called "money as debt" on google, everyone who hasn't seen it should-it explains fractional reserve banking and how the money is created out of thin air...it's really not about morals when it comes to banks people. The banks exist to enslave us, period. C'mon yall.

If I borrow $500 from a friend, you bet I am morally responsible for paying it back - my friend doesn't charge interest and use that $500 to tell other people she has $5,000 to lend out, at interest. This is what banks do continuously.

If the game is rigged and the creators of the game cheat, how is it that minor players are required to play by the rules the cheaters set up to give themselves the advantage??

What some of you have been saying essentially is that the game is rigged, yeah, but we play so we have to play by the rules, even though the creators of the game cheat. Hm.

Why?

Watch that movie, it really nails it.
Even the people here who are against debt elimination are fully aware of fractional reseve banking and thin air money creation, which is why we had to bring detail in about the actual accounting. Fractional reserve banking is technically legal but the way debt is created by arguably fraudulent accounting is not. It is a great vid though, nice cartoons
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:05 PM   #119
pilot
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Another good video to watch :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...86482738598023

"In Debt We Trust"

This goes into more detail about how credit is used as a weapon, actually. I think this might be what you are talking about Mike, more in depth into banking practices...talk about immoral!!

We are here to broaden our perspectives and gain knowledge, so I hope the folks who are ready to dismiss debt elimination would be willing to at least take a look and get all the facts before they presume it is wrong to do so.

Conditioning is deep and pervasive, and it is done to benefit the few to the detriment of the many. I personally don't think our current system is "moral".

If it's true that international banking cartels engineer crisis and lack, well then it's clear we are not obliged to keep a corrupt system afloat.

Last edited by pilot; 11-14-2008 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:44 PM   #120
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by pilot View Post
Another good video to watch :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...86482738598023

"In Debt We Trust"

This goes into more detail about how credit is used as a weapon, actually. I think this might be what you are talking about Mike, more in depth into banking practices...talk about immoral!!

We are here to broaden our perspectives and gain knowledge, so I hope the folks who are ready to dismiss debt elimination would be willing to at least take a look and get all the facts before they presume it is wrong to do so.

Conditioning is deep and pervasive, and it is done to benefit the few to the detriment of the many. I personally don't think our current system is "moral".

If it's true that international banking cartels engineer crisis and lack, well then it's clear we are not obliged to keep a corrupt system afloat.
This is a good point. I am continually surprised to find closed minds on forums like this.

Our only recourse is to leave the system entirely and declare "lawful rebellion". This is something I am looking into closely.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:43 PM   #121
Mike_Jetson
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

Peaceful non violent non compliance is probably the best way that works for our whole movement not just banking.

This is a problem for many reasons financially even if you only have a few thousand to take care of or you are relatively well off. If you leave the banks and go cash only then you risk getting burgled or worrying more about having so much cash at home or on you. Paying higher utilities and other services that reward folk for direct debit and other forms of direct digital payment. Wages that need paying into a bank is another. There are many. It comes back to being self sufficient for me again.

Thankfully (and this is not an advert) but myself and the club do get taught by experts similar to some Camelot interviewees about how to fully protect our assets, especially offshore and other options which become especially necessary the more wealth you have. Its when you come to try and help friends and family that they wont really consider giving up as much banking as possible. I mean even I cant see myself doing it any time soon but as for everything else, non complicance will be the way this revolution goes down hopefully
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:26 PM   #122
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

you all can call it what you want, play semantics all day but if you get (take) something for nothing it is not morally correct on any level.

if you "buy" a house from your friend and do not pay him, you got a house for nothing and your friend loses the value of the house. i think we all will agree that this is wrong.

if you "buy" a house off of your friend and pay for it with a mortgage loan that you do not pay back then you got a house for nothing. who suffers.....everybody who has or deals in currency. because the bank increased the money supply to loan you the money to buy the house and you do not return that money back to the bank then the existing money supply is watered down and worth less.

anyone who truly understands the videos that you all use as evidence to your case knows this. while it is clear in the first instance that you have screwed your friend and received a free house, it is also equally clear that in the second scenerio that you have screwed everyone else and received a free house.

as money supply increases, inflation ncreases and money becomes less valuable. by paying the bank back, you are taking that money back out of circulation and you stablize the value of money.

your theory doesn't hold water, isn't right, and if the banks and credit card companies are shysters, then don't borrow the money. save your money and pay cash for it like people did in the old days. 2 wrongs never made a right.

Namaste'
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:47 PM   #123
pilot
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

I closed my checking account about one month ago. I go to the bank that checks I receive are drawn on to cash them, and pay utilities, etc in person. This is possible for me because I live in a small town, but I remember in NYC, if you did not have a bank account, banks refuse to cash checks---so one had to rely on check cashing spots that charge a fee.

I have to give my FINGERPRINT to cash checks on occasion even here...very troubling.

I just watched In "Debt We Trust" again and I urge everyone to take a look if they have not seen it. If after that you still must take the side of BANKS over CITIZENS...

I am all for personal responsibility-no question. If you can't afford something-do without until you can, period.

But no matter what, I will not agree predatory lending should be allowed so a few can rape the poor.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:09 AM   #124
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by TAXMASTER View Post
you all can call it what you want, play semantics all day but if you get (take) something for nothing it is not morally correct on any level.

if you "buy" a house from your friend and do not pay him, you got a house for nothing and your friend loses the value of the house. i think we all will agree that this is wrong.

if you "buy" a house off of your friend and pay for it with a mortgage loan that you do not pay back then you got a house for nothing. who suffers.....everybody who has or deals in currency. because the bank increased the money supply to loan you the money to buy the house and you do not return that money back to the bank then the existing money supply is watered down and worth less.

anyone who truly understands the videos that you all use as evidence to your case knows this. while it is clear in the first instance that you have screwed your friend and received a free house, it is also equally clear that in the second scenerio that you have screwed everyone else and received a free house.

as money supply increases, inflation ncreases and money becomes less valuable. by paying the bank back, you are taking that money back out of circulation and you stablize the value of money.

your theory doesn't hold water, isn't right, and if the banks and credit card companies are shysters, then don't borrow the money. save your money and pay cash for it like people did in the old days. 2 wrongs never made a right.

Namaste'
The banks ARE shysters and the money has NO VALUE. The Corporations called UNITED STATES, UNITED KINGDOM etc are BANKRUPT. The money you talk about merely says "I promise to pay...". It is a promissory note.

You need to go the hard yards and do some research, as others on this thread have been saying.

No-one is talking about borrowing anything of value from friends. If you believe banks and governments are your "friends", you are in big trouble, in my humble opinion.
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:43 PM   #125
Mike_Jetson
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Default Re: Clear Your Debts 70% of Credit Agreements Are Unenforcable Therefore NON repayabl

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Originally Posted by TAXMASTER View Post
you all can call it what you want, play semantics all day but if you get (take) something for nothing it is not morally correct on any level.
Normally I would agree. Getting something for nothing is possible in many scenarios and morals wouldnt even come into.

Quote:
if you "buy" a house from your friend and do not pay him, you got a house for nothing and your friend loses the value of the house. i think we all will agree that this is wrong.
I dont even know how you see this scenario at all. And why some of you bring borrowing from friends into this is beyond me. We are fighting evil here. Its not like we are fighting fire with fire. We are fighting evil with the TRUTH. And most of us are not even talking about mortgages anyway.

Quote:
if you "buy" a house off of your friend and pay for it with a mortgage loan that you do not pay back then you got a house for nothing.
The friend again. The friend has his money and it doesnt matter whether he is a friend or a stranger. What you do after buying a house wont affect the seller at all.

Quote:
who suffers.....everybody who has or deals in currency. because the bank increased the money supply to loan you the money to buy the house and you do not return that money back to the bank then the existing money supply is watered down and worth less.
Im not the best person to understand the ins and outs of money supply and its affects in inflation and the value or currency however this statement doesnt make sense to me.

For starters, the bank didnt increase the money supply to 'loan' us the money. They FRAUDULENTY used our paper promise and broke the law where the accounting is concerned. If you are happy to take part in unlawful fraudulent activity then stay quiet about it. This goes way beyond the negative side of fractional reserve banking.

Now you say that if we dont pay the money back then the money supply will be watered down and it would be worth less. Sorry I dont really get it. Maybe someone who shares this view can have a good at this in detail as I cant see how this could happen. When you pay back some money to a bank this adds to their deposits and even if they used the more conservative fractional reserve accounting this deposit is multiplied by 9 and someone else borrows it creating yet even more money and surely this devalues the currency. Simply by not paying it back this would mean the bank has one less payment to multiply by 9. And this is conservative estimates on my part.

Quote:
anyone who truly understands the videos that you all use as evidence to your case knows this. while it is clear in the first instance that you have screwed your friend and received a free house, it is also equally clear that in the second scenerio that you have screwed everyone else and received a free house.
Nonsense. Sorry. Just my opinion.

Quote:
as money supply increases, inflation ncreases and money becomes less valuable. by paying the bank back, you are taking that money back out of circulation and you stablize the value of money.
So using fractional reserve banking, which they all do at different levels, doesnt increase the money supply and devalue currency? Im pretty sure it does.

By paying it back it doesnt get removed from circulation. Am I wrong? Someone please tell me.

Quote:
your theory doesn't hold water, isn't right, and if the banks and credit card companies are shysters, then don't borrow the money. save your money and pay cash for it like people did in the old days. 2 wrongs never made a right.
If I dont borrow another penny I will help as many people as possible get out of debt my any means possible. AND I will use the laws that were made to protect us to expose the laws broken to control us.

What we are doing is not wrong, it is not a legal loophole. We are drawing the curtains back and exposing the laws which have been broken. Read that sentence again please.

You said "if the banks and credit card companies are shysters, then don't borrow the money" I know im twisting this a bit far but I could say "If the man who lives at the end of the street is a murderer, then simply make sure you dont go near him"......or

"Your next door neighbour has been mugging half the people in the street when they come home" so the best way is to look out for him and not worry about everyone else getting done over.

Its time to step up. Youre advocating doing nothing.

"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
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