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Old 12-13-2008, 06:32 PM   #1
idunno
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Default If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

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A Being
:: Philosophy Forums ::

Reality can't be discussed.

Quote:


1.We can only discuss something which has a definition.
2.R eality has no definition.
3.T herefor we can't discuss reality.

This was inspired by

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality."
- Michael Ellner


"Whatever the ego wants to believe, the ego will gather all the so-called evidence and reasons to support what the ego wants to believe.
The ego’s primary motive is to preserve its imaginary self. "

"All of man's troubles," said Blaise Pascal, "stem from his inability to sit alone, quietly, in a room for any length of time
."
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:35 PM   #2
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

A Being




Quote:
....
However, the shared interpretations we have of reality cause insane society. Its useful to use thought and language to communicate, but its harmful to mistake our thoughts and language for the absolute itself.

I want to bring up a different angle point right now, which I had trouble putting into words in the past.

Some say the world(or what some call reality, but is most commonly used to refer to the world of appearances) is meaningless- that it has no objective definition. I agree to a point, but take it deeper.
They think first there is a reality and then we give it a label. And the thing labeled has no meaning.
Actual ly "reality" is a meaning we give to nothing.
First there is NOTHING and then there is INTERPRETATION of nothing, and THEN there is a whole bunch of appearances, and THEN we group all those appearances under the header of "the world." (I don't know if thats the exact order or not, but I would imagine approximately so, as "the world" is a more complex thought than some others.)

We call infinity, or chaos "the world" but that itself is giving chaos meaning. We interpret chaos into a place, and imagine we exist in it. Even calling "it" 'chaos', 'infinity', or 'it' is to give meaning to ___.
Basically, the more vague and essential a word, the closer it seems to the absolute, because the less meaning it has. "Nothing" has the most minimal meaning of any word, and so it appears to be the closest, but even it is a meaningful word/label.

Anything we say at all about existence is to add something inessential.
If reality is meaningless, then so is saying "reality is meaningless". If reality is meaningless, then so are all our thoughts.

Mayb e it goes something like this.
"I exist" "I'm experiencing" "My experiences are of things" "these things exist in a world" "I'm a thing in the world".

What can't be thought of?
You can think about anything... that is because 'things' ARE thoughts. That is to say, things appear because of thinking/ interpretation of experience. 'Size' is also relative interpretation and so there really isn't size. Which means your consciousness is sizeless. The mind itself is a thought.

Even "perception" is a result of thought. It requires one to differentiate between subject and object. It requires a sense of time, which is not possible without memory.

Anyway though, thats only one way to put it. I think the world is real...but that our minds distort it quite a bit.


[ Edited Thu Nov 27 2008, 09:43PM ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality."
- Michael Ellner


"Whatever the ego wants to believe, the ego will gather all the so-called evidence and reasons to support what the ego wants to believe.
The ego’s primary motive is to preserve its imaginary self. "

"All of man's troubles," said Blaise Pascal, "stem from his inability to sit alone, quietly, in a room for any length of time."
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:37 PM   #3
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

A Being
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:44 PM   #4
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

...&((this thread is the ::: original ::: deja vu ))2me...
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:45 PM   #5
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

all be well in a dream of..............................................
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:49 PM   #6
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

.....................................iI ..............................
...........water-quarks-colors.......................e-phi-lo-sophe....
.................................................. ..........................
Quote:
.......bay-buy-by-be... mwm : -Anti--> or.. wmw..y'all ..
Aristotle's Metaphysics
...............idunno

Last edited by idunno; 12-13-2008 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:28 PM   #7
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

uh..oh..dj-v-again
Saturday, 13 December 2008, 20:28:42
Monty Python - International Philosophy - Germany vs. Greece
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:40 PM   #8
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

F “Darkness” OF ZYAN—-
oh-ho

btw..heres is that Map-oligarchy of dj-v
rulers>>
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:51 PM   #9
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

2008 is a dejavu year and it always was in that time/space or space/time meant to be a deja-vu
sooo.......................so can not do anything but ----- repeat ...for the sake of repetitions
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:00 PM   #10
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

Time is not linear, it is a kind of space

Quote:
Time is not linear, it is a kind of space RSS
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269870
11/22/2008 4:13 PM
............................... Time is not linear, it is a kind of space
Quote

This is what super-relativity tells us. It is the pan-dimensional TRUTH !!!


canislatrans
Coyote
User ID: 516342
11/22/2008 4:15 PM
Re: Time is not linear, it is a kind of space Quote

Time is relative.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.

Coolchick
User ID: 427959
11/22/2008 4:18 PM Re: Time is not linear, it is a kind of space Quote

It is almost 4:20
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage670922/pg1

what are all the meanings of that word relative?
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:15 PM   #11
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation
Energy is not Love

Quote:
The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation
Energy is not Love

User ID: 542325
11/4/2008 9:41 AM
....................... The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation Quote

The sine wave is a common oscillation between minimum and maximum. Imagine with me that the fear of absolute intimacy is the minimum at the bottomn, keeping the wave from getting too close to intimate togetherness, and the fear of our absolutely infinite nature is the maximum at the top. Bouncing from one extreme to the other, the line never meets either its Intimate or Infinite Self.

This would cause Fenynman’s observation: when objects get too far apart (they reach the maximum sine wave peak) they appear to attract each other, and are thus drawn back down to the minimum. And when they get too close, they appear to repel each other, thus leaving the minimum and heading back to the maximum. This “repel-attract” energy forms the continuously moving (serpent-like) sine wave.

That construction of oscillating between a minimum and a maximum forms the basis for all of space and time. When viewed as moving through time, it is the sine wave, the shape of moving light, sound, vibration.

In quantum mechanics, this endless oscillation is called quantum fluctuation energy, or zero point energy, or vaccum energy—because this energy is built right into the fabric of empty space itself (known as the vacuum).

What quantum mechanics has discovered about our universe, is that no matter how rock-solid, unmoving, never-budged-an-inch an object appears to be, the sub-atomic particles that make it up are a wiggly, oscillating, jittery mess. For example, no matter how much a boulder looks like it hasn’t budged in a billion years, it is made up of particles that are continuously in motion—without ceasing. This is proven science.

Is the snake in the Garden of Eden a wiggly sine wave?

Is this sine-wave, universe-creating oscillation the origin of the slithering snake story in the Garden of Eden? Yep. It’s an archetype buried in our collective unconscious. That symbolic, sine-wave snake was a liar because in truth, formless, spaceless, dimensionless beings don’t oscillate. They don’t wiggle from side-to-side like sidewinders do.

Oscillation is a spatial idea, and space is a mentally projected fantasy laid over the truth of your non-spatial reality. Einstein’s relativity showed us that geometry—lines, points, angles, shapes, curves, sine waves—are not absolute constructions unchanging in time and space, but in fact change with our observation of a physical system in motion.

...Sorry Elvis. Heaven doesn’t wiggle.

Heaven, like the Internet, doesn’t move. So here’s your first clue you’re not in Heaven; the universe around you is built on oscillation, all the way down to the fabric of spacetime itself—vacuum energy as its called.

The master knows Heaven doesn’t wiggle. And that his true power comes from the “unmoved mover” we call God, not spacetime and its wiggly, sine-wave snakes.

Energy is change by force; it is not love and it is not Spirit

...

So much of modern New Age thought is built on the idea of energy. Energy, like motion in spacetime, is built on the fantasy of change. Energy is everywhere in New Age thought. Manipulating energy to heal. Becoming one with the energy of cosmic consciousness. Studying the energy flow of ki, and auras and charkras.

Energy is no more spiritual than the Easter Bunny. Energy and Spirit are wholly unrelated. They occupy two universes that combine only in the mind of the one holding them both together as real.

A master knows that energy and Spirit do not exchange effects whatsover because they lack a common background context to do so. All expressions of love in true reality are maximal. This means turned up all the way all the time.

All expressions of energy are not maximal. It increases, it decreases. We can experience a little heat energy and roast a marshmallow, or a lot of heat energy from a forest fire.

That maximal expression of love is Heaven is Spirit is you! Your true Self is maximal love all the time! No ups and downs. No yin-yang cycles. That symbol may be popular, but it has nothing to do with Spirit. God has no opposites, does not cycle through opposites, does not trade places or take turns with opposites.

God has no opposite. Period. And if God doesn’t you don’t either! As Baruch Spinoza said, God can only create like Himself. And as C.S. Lewis said, God has no opposites. First you take the Crazy Step, then you start believing in opposites.

The Buddha said, “The truth is one. There is no second.” Perfect togetherness does not cycle, go up and down, oscillate, vibrate or ebb and flow. Your perfect, sacred, God-given love is always at a max; like an eternal sun that shines at is maximum potential continuously. Only turning away from that sun—or putting clouds in front of it—appears to make it diminish.

Energy can cause suffering. God can’t.

The Buddha said his Self did not suffer or change. Energy is the capacity to cause change—and ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki—it can unleash a whole mess of suffering.

...

All true power comes from God, and God is outside of spacetime. Energy is in spacetime and is part of the illusion. Even empty space has energy, as we’ve explored. A master does not summon the energy of the cosmos to overcome matter—or gravity—that would be using the illusion to manipulate an illusion.

Spirit is formless. It has no shape. Energy travels in waves and packets and bundles. Energy can harm. Spirit cannot. Energy blows things up; your Self does not.

Energy kills. Jesus said God is the God of the living, not the dead.

"If those who lead you say to you, "Look, the Kingdom is in the sky," the the birds will get there first.
If they say "It is in the ocean," then the fish will get there first.
But the Kingdom of God is within you and outside of you.
Once you come to know yourselves, you will become known.
And you will know that it is you who are the children of the living Father."
Jesus
Source: Gospel of Thomas

A master knows the difference between energy—which is based on nature’s force—and true power, which comes only from the love of God (see Dr. David Hawkins Power vs. Force). God’s power—flawless love—has never harmed, does not harm now and will not harm in the future.

...

Energy does not consider the free will of what it destroys—including humans—which means it is not of God. When the energy of the atomic bomb was released on the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it didn’t politely knock on the door and ask them if it would be okay to destory them. “Hi, this is energy. I was just wondering if it would be O.K. to incinerate you folks this morning?”

Energy, violates the free will of everything it encounters. When the sun shines on me, it doesn’t ask first if it’s O.K. to give me a sunburn, or even if I wanted to be warmer. Maybe I like being nice and cool.

When the energy of a sonic boom from a fighter jet hits a window, it doesn’t ask permission if it’s O.K. to shatter that window. Maybe a child was sitting right inside that window looking out.

Remember, we are exploring that the structure of spacetime mirrors structures in your mind. Energy never extends a voluntary definition to join in union with it, which means it is absolutely not of God, whose very definition of existence is voluntary union—which is what love is.

Energy just does what it does without consideration for what’s around it. Energy released in the form of a tsunami doesn’t stop before the beach and make sure all the little kids have their life vests on.

...

Energy is the foundation of hell istelf; it absolutely is not of Heaven. Is the belief that one can be changed without their permission in order for another to experience an altered version of that one. That’s the mechanism of Dorothy’s nightmare in the Wizard of Oz. She alters her family members without their permission in her dream and it gets away from her.

It is the very mechanism of mental projection itself. It is the mechanism of perceptual alteration. When you look at a star and clump it into the Big Dipper, did you ask those stars if they wanted to be arranged that way, or did you just go ahead and perceive them that way?

What is a stereotype but the same process of mental projection on another.

The bottom line is that the master knows energy is projected thought—as author Gary Renard says in The Disappearance of the Universe. Mental projection and energy are synonymous.

Ask a scientist to show you a picture of energy. They can’t do it. Ask them to hold energy in their hand. They can’t. Ask them what energy really is, and they will tell you—if they are honest—that they don’t know.


Let’s define energy as a master would:

Energy is projected thought. It is one believing they can change the essence of another without that other’s free-will participation. It negates the invitation to join in union (love) and replaces that invitation with a mentally projected forced relationship. Energy is natural force. Love is never forced. Love is Divine power and comes from God and God alone.
There is no energy in Heaven. A master knows this. What are constellations but a mentally projected forced relationship?

Oscillation. Vibration. Motion. Light waves. Energy. Change. It’s all based on the idea of space and time; which is not your true reality. It’s all part of the fantasy island we call spacetime (see Question #1).

A master knows his true home—and the true source of his power and ability to perform miracles—is not a single inch away from where he is, no matter where he is, or how fast he’s moving or what he’s doing in spacetime. A master knows that whatever contains vibration is not his true Self.


And that means spacetime all the way down to its very fabric.

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 542350
11/4/2008 9:53 AM Re: The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation Quote

"Be still and know that I am God" I think the duality is to bring us into balance.



Restart
User ID: 542434
11/4/2008 11:14 AM
Re: The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation Quote

. .
.

C O N F U S I O N . &

C O N T R A D I C T I O N S : )

L e a d i n g . ( e v e r y ) w h e r e . . ?

.
. .






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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 372008
11/4/2008 3:28 PM Re: The Decieving Serpent = The Sine Wave = Illusion of Physical Manifestation Quote

math/science/logic/etc cannot 'prove' spirit. It may point toward it, it may even support the idea in some senses, but I think there is some folly in attempting to figure out any kind of definitive "God" equation.

Many people are attempting to use science as a metaphor for spiritual insight, a noble and often useful endeavour. I believe that modern people are more likely to understand and appreciate the language of "spiritual science" than modes of explanation more suited to pre-modern times.

That said, as another poster mentioned rather gruffly, such an approach isn't without controversy. Too often "quantum science" "theoretical physics" and even "biology/evolution" are appropriated by "seekers" who are often confused about the basics and actual meaning of these paradigms. For every spiritualist claiming that quanta "proves God" there are a host of actual physicists ready to point out the problems with such a conception.

I think that's healthy, but it can too often result in "scientism" - or the reduction of all phenomena to scientistic explanation.

"spirituality" cant explain science any better than science explains spirituality, but the two can, if both are approached correctly and in context, co-exist quite nicely.

The OP is simply expressing in modern, formal, and logical terms the same truths presented by ancient vedic, taoist, buddhist, and even Christian texts - the changing nature of the material world can mask the truth of timeless, immutable existence. It thus may be "illusory" but is not in anyway "unreal".
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:21 PM   #12
idunno
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Default Re: If It Is as A Being said then < Reality can't be discussed. >

idunno, just hope, one 'day' someone will ATAIN real reality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM981Hz692w
Prajna Paramita Sutra
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