Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Project Avalon > Project Avalon General Discussion

Notices

Project Avalon General Discussion Finding safe places, information and resources for building communities, site suggestions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2008, 03:23 PM   #126
RaKaR
Avalon Senior Member
 
RaKaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 285
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Very Nice Movie

I think it's i very good movie to awake people, because it's explained
pretty good for 'normal' people. I already sent the link to much of
my friends!

I'm very curious about the zeitgeist movement! Hopefully it
will be such a success as Project Avalon!!!
Hi, Honorable Levi,

I am utterly convinced that Zeitgeist/Venus Project will see the light.
The movement is already gaining some steady pace here, at Avalon.
In case you are not yet aware of it, there is a thread opened by Member Xammy, where the Practical Steps and the Emotional/ Spiritual Preparations towards this New Paradigm could be thoroughly discussed - 'What we are supposed to do' onder the section 'General Discussion'.

Behold The Future, it is within You.

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
RaKaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 08:06 PM   #127
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAndThem View Post
Yeh but what is fact to you? Like i say, what is fact or fiction? They are all just beliefs. See beyond the mistakes Maxwell makes, and the belief structures and holy books in all religious structures, it just confuses everyone. Maxwell may be wrong about some "facts", but that's not the point, the point is that religion has been used to brainwash society dude, not help.

Got to see the big picture, not these pathetic little factual games. This is what divides people!! Hence my original post. I never said it was a cult, i said it was a tool, a system to control, much like the monetary system we live in. Just another tool! Money divides people into classes, and religion divides people "spiritually" not that it is spiritual at all. I don't need to see the evidence, what is their evidence based on? The bible? What they were told in school? Geee sounds like everyone else. I have seen the Jordan Maxwell debunked links, I've seen them all. No need for the links thanks.
First of all, if you don't like facts then you're entitled to your oppinion. i don't get mad at that idea. it's a ride. everyone doesn't have to search for fact and truth.

Although if you'd like to open up a little bit more and check out some christian guy's research which is not bible based but fact based then i can redirect you to these links (I didn't check them all out):


NTR - William (Bill) Cooper Debunks Jordan Maxwell

http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/en...3_45-07_00.mp3

http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowhere...%20maxwell.wmv

"Astro-Theology" is ********

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtmO36tmuT0

Nowhere To Run - Evidence for the Existence of Jesus

http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowhere...ntr_062108.mp3

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=36830437

Nowhere To Run Zeitgeist Challenge responds to Acharya S

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...54934404709290

NTR - The Nicaea Myth Debunked

http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/en...6_21-07_00.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmS90DPa6cw

Zeitgeist debunking links
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com
http://ct.grenme.com/index.php/Zeitgeist_Part_I
http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/...tpartone.shtml
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/compon.../catid,2/id,8/
http://educate-yourself.org/lte/zeig...dacharya01aug0...
http://www.zeitgeistresponse.info/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63630528394775
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPXc1QcmYDY
http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.p...on=com_content...
http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/.../zeitgeist-of-...
http://www.christian-forum.net/index...t=ST&f=15&t=14...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread286883/pg1
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/compon...ret/Itemid,32/
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/is-j...d-aar-afb2.htm

source: http://www.conspiracyclothes.com/now...un/index1.html
http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/

note: I couldn't care less if Chris White is wrong on his claims. Actually it would be quite nice if you could prove him wrong since that would further the debate.

Here you go guys.
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 10:11 PM   #128
Zelphael
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 91
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Elirien,

When are you going to let go of the shackles you keep yourself in, and finally be free?
Zelphael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 10:29 PM   #129
Heretic
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Now
Posts: 371
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

from the similarities between the Jesus figure and many other figures found in theo-mythological texts alone, one can see that the Jesus story is not an account of the man who we base Jesus on but a superimposed character. These similarities should shock and alarm people concerning Jesus

these proofs are in the public domain and are simply a part of history which predates Christ, it is rather undeniable when compared to these mythological figureheads that the Jesus figure is a composite character

I have yet to see any explanation brought forth from the Christian community that can explain away the shocking similarities between the Jesus story and countless others that are near xerox copies of themselves

looking at proofs written by people desperately clinging to a beautiful belief structure that they refuse to let go of, will do nothing because the basic proof of the similarities of the Jesus story with older stories told over and over are absolutely undeniable

Although

lets not forget that the message the Christ myth brought us is very profound and has merit all on its own. We can certainly learn alot from it if we simply cut out the parts that require blind obedience and submission.

Do not turn your back on religion altogether simply because some of it is regurgitated rhetoric spoken from a priesthood of control. There is great wisdom to be found there and many great secrets rest in religion, especially the ancient ones.

peace
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 11:42 PM   #130
Stephen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

elirien....
Have you watched this:

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version - 111 min - May 5, 2007

Google Video Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67390173&hl=en
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 09:11 AM   #131
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelphael View Post
Elirien,

When are you going to let go of the shackles you keep yourself in, and finally be free?
I'm free more then a bird Zelphael. I'm not bound by group think and movements. I am not even bound by any religion. Although most truth researchers are beginning to tie themselves down with the teachings of the mystery schools. Zelphael, listen to the links. It will help you open your mind to other perspectives which are from real awakened people who happen to be real christians (couldn't care less).

If you are gonna listen to your prejudice then think about this:

- they bring facts to the table (which no channeller or even david icke can for his reptilians)
- Even though they are christians they don't use biased information except when so called truth people use the bible and either have misinterpreted it or totally quoted it wrong (mostly on the sitchinite stuff).
- christians aren't the bogiee man and christians doesn't mean catholics. there is a huge difference of time before the catholics take the scene.
- I am from a Muslim country trying to push this information from some american christian dudes that are just checking out the claims these people made. I am the least likely guy to promote christianism. That doesn't mean you should trust me but hear me just say "I couldn't care less if these guys are wrong or not. I just want to further the debate so that we can see the whole picture on this matter".

please check the info out and write me back.
don't be new age biggots or fundy truth seekers
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 09:14 AM   #132
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dood View Post
elirien....
Have you watched this:

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version - 111 min - May 5, 2007

Google Video Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67390173&hl=en
oh yeah man. wonderful film. I don't know if I had exactly watched the director's authorized version (it was last year i think). thanks for the recommendation. You should watch "The Corporation" if you still didn't old dood. It's like an introduction into these matters. man, if just the other forums were open we could have posted these as individual topics so people could have written comments.

---kinda spoiler---
Anyways, very good film starting with the federal reserve system and ending well like... Zeitgeist The Movie
---kinda spoiler end---
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #133
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
from the similarities between the Jesus figure and many other figures found in theo-mythological texts alone, one can see that the Jesus story is not an account of the man who we base Jesus on but a superimposed character. These similarities should shock and alarm people concerning Jesus

these proofs are in the public domain and are simply a part of history which predates Christ, it is rather undeniable when compared to these mythological figureheads that the Jesus figure is a composite character

I have yet to see any explanation brought forth from the Christian community that can explain away the shocking similarities between the Jesus story and countless others that are near xerox copies of themselves

looking at proofs written by people desperately clinging to a beautiful belief structure that they refuse to let go of, will do nothing because the basic proof of the similarities of the Jesus story with older stories told over and over are absolutely undeniable

Although

lets not forget that the message the Christ myth brought us is very profound and has merit all on its own. We can certainly learn alot from it if we simply cut out the parts that require blind obedience and submission.

Do not turn your back on religion altogether simply because some of it is regurgitated rhetoric spoken from a priesthood of control. There is great wisdom to be found there and many great secrets rest in religion, especially the ancient ones.

peace
just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.


note: Sorry for all the individual posts but I couldn't find a + quote button that would merge them all together.

Last edited by elirien; 10-09-2008 at 09:24 AM. Reason: note
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 05:36 PM   #134
EpiphaMe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 05:59 PM   #135
RaKaR
Avalon Senior Member
 
RaKaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 285
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpiphaMe View Post
Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.
Absolutely correct, EpiphaMe, and discussions around particularly the Future oriented(solution) of 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' are currently held at the thread 'What we are supposed to do' by Xammy and the thread 'Zeitgeist: Project Venus Pioneers' (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=4658; http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=46230.

Your contribution would be highly appreciated.

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
RaKaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 02:11 PM   #136
Red
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 14
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Have anyone seen "the Zeitgeist Addendum Review" by Alex Jones??
Apparently he hated it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyQtN...eature=related


hmm
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #137
RaKaR
Avalon Senior Member
 
RaKaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 285
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
Have anyone seen "the Zeitgeist Addendum Review" by Alex Jones??
Apparently he hated it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyQtN...eature=related


hmm
Thanks for the link, Member Red.

A matter of taste and Weltanschauung, obviously...

Cheers!

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
RaKaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 04:02 PM   #138
Red
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 14
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Yes, obviously..
maybe my "winksmiley02" there was confusing, so just want to make it clear that I realy loved the Addedum movie. Just so you know!
But I allmost lost some respect for Alex Jones after listening to this. Tho I guess he means well.. Tho then again, I almost feel like he WANTS people to live in fear sometimes..

It's like you say, a matter of taste and Weltangschauung

Take care friend!

Last edited by Red; 10-10-2008 at 04:08 PM.
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 04:33 PM   #139
RaKaR
Avalon Senior Member
 
RaKaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 285
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

You too, Red.

See you around!

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
RaKaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 05:57 PM   #140
Norval
Banned
 
Norval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On a boat in Tacoma, wa, usa
Posts: 394
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Zeitgeist Addendum,

Ok, They threw out the baby (bible) with the bath water.

I wonder if they would rethink their understanding with acceptance of ET / UFO bible connection knowledge?

Many great points in the movie, except their religionization of the bible. I am in full agreement
about religions, bad governance, national attitudes and that we should become one as knowing
our true humanity. With comprehension of a much bigger picture than just our world mankind is
also on the brink of the ET / UFO disclosure. That then puts the spin to how about mankind
learning about ET governance and social acceptance in the galaxies? The bible, it's not about
religion but about an intergalactic oneness that is already established. You may want to read it.
Norval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 08:00 PM   #141
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpiphaMe View Post
Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.
So talking about the films perspective on belief which was detailed in the first film has nothing to do with the film it self. Wow. Sorry but you sound like people that use the sentence: "I think god meant to say...".

It is a piece of the film. I think debating the details of a film is a indication that you liked it.
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 10:05 PM   #142
Zira
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Utter rubbish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyQtN4HY4Ko
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 11:14 PM   #143
lovepromoter
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 65
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

very good video, bring on the resource economy of tommorow..... spread the word, join the www.zeitgeistmovement.com
lovepromoter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 12:45 AM   #144
dolphin
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 277
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
Have anyone seen "the Zeitgeist Addendum Review" by Alex Jones??
Apparently he hated it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyQtN...eature=related


hmm
yeah, i lost some respect for alex jones too...i don;t think he quite got the whole concept of zeitgeist addendum and project venus. he made points referring that the elitists do the same thing then control the monetary rewards...what he doesn't get is that project venus is suggesting a NON-monetary system. so alex is assuming that someone at the very top will reap all the rewards.

alex just doesn't get it.
dolphin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 12:48 AM   #145
dolphin
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 277
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

yes me too RAKAR, i'm going to send the zeitgeist addendum and project venus links to EVERYONE i know. you have to remember that people can't unhear something.

i think just by taking the small steps that the film suggests, we all can in some way participate right now in our NON-Compliance to the current paradigm!
dolphin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 01:10 AM   #146
Heretic
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Now
Posts: 371
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by elirien View Post
just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.
I agree that Acharya's book was interpretive as far as trying to UN-define Christ, in fact it was a dreadful read and difficult. Yet that isn't the evidence that has most people scratching their heads. It is the near blatant similarities between the characters she claims he was based off of.

She really doesn't even have to do alot of convincing here for me. The mythologies hold their own weight. I have checked many of your links and none do any more than nit-pick on dates and minor discrepancies that in no way challenges the similarities as a whole. Most make a subjective attempt to pick on enough minor issues to cause doubt, and then cry foul because there are some minor discrepancies.

If it were just Horus, Dionysus, or Mithra and the similarities that border on exact matches on a couple maybe...but there are sooo many that it is undeniable that there is an existing blueprint out there that has been used over and over again. You can even remove Christ from this entire puzzle and still the the footprints remain of an archetype used over and again.

In fact if you read them all as one and it is a remarkable story. They kind of flesh each other out into to one big story. The rest of this is just semantics for me because most of it based on interpretation and conjecture that is relied upon just as bad as Acharya used in her own work. It's no wonder there are thousands denominations of Christianity. I think there is a spiritual crisis going on in this world for a very good reason.

Yet I am open to being wrong here, in fact that would be cool because this issue has alot of people asking questions. Screw all of the other literature on why anyone is or is not correct, the focus can stay only on the mythology to solve this riddle in my eyes. I would LOVE to understand more why the similarities are so remarkably alike amongst so many figures of worship in our ancient past, so I remain open to further proof along these lines only because the rest is just a quagmire of rhetoric that even the scholars cannot agree on.

Last edited by Heretic; 10-11-2008 at 01:31 AM.
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 08:41 PM   #147
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
I agree that Acharya's book was interpretive as far as trying to UN-define Christ, in fact it was a dreadful read and difficult. Yet that isn't the evidence that has most people scratching their heads. It is the near blatant similarities between the characters she claims he was based off of.

She really doesn't even have to do alot of convincing here for me. The mythologies hold their own weight. I have checked many of your links and none do any more than nit-pick on dates and minor discrepancies that in no way challenges the similarities as a whole.Most make a subjective attempt to pick on enough minor issues to cause doubt, and then cry foul because there are some minor discrepancies.
I don't think that these are minor issues if someone claims something and it is not based on fact but on opinion. Which mythologies have you read and of which similarities do you speak? I know of Horus that he was conceived by Isis who was impregnated by Osiris in the land of the dead (nothing virgin about her. You could even claim she was one sick **** lol).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
If it were just Horus, Dionysus, or Mithra and the similarities that border on exact matches on a couple maybe...but there are sooo many that it is undeniable that there is an existing blueprint out there that has been used over and over again. You can even remove Christ from this entire puzzle and still the the footprints remain of an archetype used over and again.

Yet I am open to being wrong here, in fact that would be cool because this issue has alot of people asking questions. Screw all of the other literature on why anyone is or is not correct, the focus can stay only on the mythology to solve this riddle in my eyes. I would LOVE to understand more why the similarities are so remarkably alike amongst so many figures of worship in our ancient past, so I remain open to further proof along these lines only because the rest is just a quagmire of rhetoric that even the scholars cannot agree on.
I can understand that. But the main problem here is not what religion is but what Zeitgeist thinks religion is. As far as I have seen the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Quran are not solar deities that Acharya S, Zeitgeist and Jordan Maxwell (as well as the people that reference him like David Icke) claim he is. At least not on a historical, theological level and of course factual level. Once again, I'm not claiming anything but that these claims are proven to be false and must be corrected.


By the way, I totally agree with Alex Jones on his analyses of the second film. The Venus project just smelled centralization on the first watch and that is not a good thing for me. Someone in the David Icke forum mentioned that even before Alex had posted his comments. There are alternatives to what Zeitgeist and The Venus Project present for energy production and monetary solutions. I need to analyze marx and engels approach more to comment further.



These are my opinions which have nothing to do with the topic but I think I have to share:

I have people proving me that masonry, satanism, mormonism and many other conspiratorial beliefs are in their core luciferianism. Now why the hell would that be important to people that are very intelligent and do many occult rituals? Why do many conspiracy researchers abhore christianity, make these false claims that they can't prove and don't admit that they are wrong and that they can make errors (like any normal human being)? That messes up their credibility in my opinion and casts big shadows on their other works and sources.

It makes christianity look holier then ever in my opinion (and I'm not a christian) since it is being battled with such ferver to no success. I see the same thing with these unjust wars against the muslims that are raging on for years now. these people probably have some very important truth which is trying to be slandered and disguised for years.
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 09:08 PM   #148
h0lyh0ly
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 6
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

am downloading it right now.
h0lyh0ly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 10:01 PM   #149
Reveling John
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 89
Wink Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by elirien View Post
just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.
I feel quite blessed by your informed skepticism, Elirien. It will only make the truth more clear for everyone. It is especially appreciated because of the heat you have to take from those who are still unsure of their own truth, and therefore attempt to bully you into believing (is this not what all religions do?).

Having said that, have you read this statement from the zeitgeist movie site?

Quote:
(1) There are many in the religious community making films and posting websites denying the relationship of prior religions' influence on Christianity and maintain the disposition that Horus and others do not share the attributes the film claims. What is your response to this?

All Part 1 "debunkers" do one or more of the following:

(1) They attack / marginalize the messengers:
I have read countless posts where rather than reading any of the knowledge produced by a particular scholar, they simply dig up or invent some "flaw" in regard to that person and dismiss their work based on that association. For example, Thomas Paine, an American founding father, who was intimately aware of the Solar Nature of Jesus Christ and the fraud of Christianity, wrote about true Christian origins during his life. However, from the biased debunkers point of view, he was just a "Freemason" and therefore he must have some "Anti-Christian" bias and cannot be taken seriously. This is absurd. From another angle, people will marginalize certain scholars as "fringe" due to the fact that their information isn't "well known" and therefore not to be taken seriously. Little do they understand that the most important discoveries of our time always come from the minority. Historically, the majorities belief's have almost always been proven to be wrong over time.

(2) They do no real research:
Based on what I have seen, 95% of all "debunkers" who claim the information in Part 1 is unfounded have never opened anything other than the Bible and an Encyclopedia. 10,000 yrs of religious history is not going to be represented in any Encyclopedia beyond the most superficial assessments. (For instance, Horus had many permutations during the thousands of years he was portrayed, as opposed to the singular definitions one would find in an Encyclopedia) The other 5% have blindly read Establishment, Apologist literature on the Internet and nothing more. I have yet to be contacted by a single person who has, for example, read the total works of Egyptologist Gerald Massey or Egyptologist E. A. Wallis Budge on the subject and can argue any specific point. It must be understood, for example, that in regards to the Egyptian religion specifically, it wasn't until the late 1700s that the hieroglyphics where correctly interpreted to a high degree. This is important because for many centuries prior, this information was lost.

(3) They blindly ask "Where are the 'Primary Sources'?"
or ancient original texts. These individuals declare that 'If we cannot see it in the original texts, then it cannot be known as true'. Well, even though we do have many of the original texts from the Egyptian religion, many other religions have no available primary sources, and the information comes down through analysis of traditions that each religion practiced, as recorded by historians. The idea that the "original" must be available in order to prove truth is absurd and a double standard. Where are the original manuscripts of the Bible? And why are just four gospels used when it is well known that many dozens existed? Which does one believe? And what are the "primary sources" upon which the Bible stories were created? Who actually wrote them? Why isn't there any other historical documentation or supporting evidence? Is the whole species supposed to just believe one single book without any critical analysis or confirming evidence?
The bottom line is that analysis of religious ideas is not confined to what is "on paper" as all religions are slowly evolving structures where 'Tradition' is just as important as 'Scripture'. Many early religions did not have official texts but communicated their beliefs through traditional practice. The historians' documentation that account for these practices are all we have in certain instances. This should not be dismissed and should rather be taken in with everything else to reach a logical, cumulative understanding. Collectively, the primary sources that are available, coupled with the historian documentation, present an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the argument that Judaism, Islam and Christianity specifically, are manifestations of a gross misinterpretation of prior mythology. This mythology is rooted in the Solar and Stellar cults of the ancient world.

(4) They projected their own subjective interpretation of a piece of information by using "semantic manipulation". Rather than making an objective assessment about presented information in context, situations are narrowly defined and adapted to the debunkers cause by redefining the terms by which the meaning is extrapolated. This is classic religion. Seeing things that are not there, or only that which fits the dogmatic belief system, is a staple of the interpretive mess, self projecting "believers" maintain.

Anyone who questions any part of Part 1 should first go through the Interactive Transcript and then begin reading the sources. I also highly recommend Acharya's Companion Guide which elaborates on the Egyptian aspects more thoroughly. She has also produced
a Video Response.
Maybe this little bit should be posted amongst all the debunker forums so that they can adequately respond.
Reveling John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 11:21 PM   #150
elirien
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 100
Default Re: Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reveling John View Post
I feel quite blessed by your informed skepticism, Elirien. It will only make the truth more clear for everyone. It is especially appreciated because of the heat you have to take from those who are still unsure of their own truth, and therefore attempt to bully you into believing (is this not what all religions do?).

Having said that, have you read this statement from the zeitgeist movie site?

Maybe this little bit should be posted amongst all the debunker forums so that they can adequately respond.
Thank you for your kind words Reveling John. Believe me, I'm just trying to further the debate. I mostly can't get bothered with posts that don't add anything to the debate. Although it sometimes saddens me to see the type of posts that you pointed out. Loved your opinion on religious behavior by the way

I've read that section of their site. I was quite 'enchanted' during the times when I first watched Zeitgeist and that was the time when I read that section.

On that:

- -This is just my opinion- The style in which the q&a is written is awful. I mean it just smells ego and non-debatability. What are these words? They blindly ask "Where are the 'Primary Sources'?". Let's move on.

- Well we had this very good debate with TranceAM about Thomas Paine right here on this forum: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...?t=1700&page=2

- I'm not sure about Massey. One of his books was thrown before me as 'evidence' but I didn't have time to read what this individual wrote. I could use some input on this one since the refutal people have quite the books on this subject (which are non-biblical and some are written by pagan-roman historians). I will check his stuff later on. His wikipedia page doesn't look promising but let's be unbiased.

By the way I found this site (which I had the time to only read briefly). Very interesting stuff on this very subject:

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/art...geist/part-one

Take care. Will look into this tomorrow. It's too late for research
elirien is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
new zeitgeist addendum

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon