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Old 03-31-2009, 10:30 AM   #1
Steve_A
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Default Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Hi Everyone,

We've seen the situation on the US Mexican border with wars going on between the drug cartels to take and keep control of the drug market.

Years ago I heard the excuse of a drug pusher justifying his trade declaring that he only sells what his client wants. At that time I thought that it wasn't a very good justification until the other day when a 'pundit' on one of the news channels justified the sale of guns to Mexico using the same excuse.

So I'm using this same theory for this post. The other side to the logic is, if there is no market, there can be no sales, if there are no sales there can be no supplier.... and the list goes on, you know where I'm getting to.

It's also clear that 90% of drug sales in the US is for Marajuana, which is not an addictive drug - so users say.

The users know what's going on in the border towns. Do we suppose that dope users support and are in favour of the problems? Is the wasteful killing worth it for a toke? Are the users so egoist to let people die for their little high?

Health groups and Earth friendly groups talk about organic farming, healthy drinking water, buying politically correct coffee and tea, looking at labels on products to see if they are bio-organic-recyclable etc. and yet many individuals let people get slaughtered for their half hour high.

So here's the thing. Stop buying dope. Let the market dry up. If you really need to get a high, take a page out of Mathew Deloozes book and go to a place where it's legal (Holland, UK (not criminal), Brazil (not criminal), Peru etc.).

If the markets dry up so the problem will at least be reduced and can be managed easier.

Best regards,

Steve
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

It's criminal again now over here Steve.

I reckon the real solution is to legalise it. It's ludicrous that a plant can be made illegal anyway, and if people can grow it in their own back yard then instantly you signal the end of the marijuana cartels and all the crime associated with them.

Legalise weed and criminalise alcohol and we'd see a very different and much improved world
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:51 AM   #3
Machinamentum
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Alright

Number one drug import from Mexico to America is meth. I don't care what the news says.

Swag is the majority of weed that comes up here from Mexico. Most potheads that I know, get dank weed, that pretty much is grown locally all over America. There is no reason to buy swag. There is no reason to buy meth, if people want it, they should be able to have a tweaked out life and die a tweaked out death.

As for drug markets drying up, that will never happen. Drugs have shamanic-spiritual lessons and are needed for proper evolution. That is why they are here. Some need em some don't, but don't hate em. Except for tweekers, they can be hated.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:51 AM   #4
AussieG
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:59 AM   #5
Zeddo
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

I'm not sure where it is available but if you can, get your hands on the Nexus Magazine Vol 12 No2.

I meant to scan the article to pDF today but was rushed, I'll do my best for tomorrow. There is an article all about hemp. Balanced, and really well written without the emotional bias. This is really eye opening.

Steve, you are right, hemp is non addictive. I really think that drugs like heroin, cocain and the more modern and really scary stuff like crack etc are the biggest sellers. There is a big market for dope, but it is miniscule compared to the hard drug trade, which is also looked after by the gov'ts of this world(hence the true reason for troops being in places like afghanistan, can't have the warlords stealing the drug crops, can we).

The medicinal and industrial uses for hemp has always been suppressed. In 6 month you get 10 times the yield from a crop of hemp as you would from a similar (acerage) sized crop of trees grown for pulp which take 20 years to mature, and waste trillions of gallons of water.

Nuff said, just thought I'd toss in a few lines. One last thing, I have to agree that it would be fantastic if everyone just said no. Add alchohol to the drugs list also.

Cheers

Z
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:11 PM   #6
Machinamentum
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Drugs are illegal because society is more controllable that way. That's all.

Drugs are a very powerful tool for those who know how to operate drugs properly. Entheogenic drugs can instantly open the minds eye to realities that takes many many years of meditative practice to achieve.

They use bad drugs to make the good drugs look bad.

Last edited by Machinamentum; 03-31-2009 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieG View Post
The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?
1- Because Big Pharma has been unable to synthesise the active ingredient THC despite repeated and costly efforts.

2- Big Pharma and the Alcohol Industry primarily. Big Pharma through it's attacks on medical marijuana gets to push more toxic drugs and the Alcohol Industry because in my experience people who are smoking marijuana drink a lot less. And the governments of course because of the huge taxes they impose on legal drugs.

3- TPB ultimately because there's a lot of money in it and people on drugs do not make an effective opposition to them. The "work hard play hard" ethic doesn't leave much room for waking up and smelling the coffee. Control is most definitely a prime concern- look at how opium was used by the British govt against China in the 1800s.

4- TPB ultimately, both through taxes on the legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco to the various governments and the illegal international drugs rings primarily operated by the CIA and MI6. All that money goes to the banking families one way or another. Everything does eventually.

Zeddo's point about Afghanistan is spot on- the Taliban would not allow people to grow the poppys, but since the UK and US military was sent in opium output has skyrocketed. CIA/MI6 again, and all paid for by us.

Machinamentum is also correct about certain drugs / plants being here to teach us. Psychedelics / teacher plants (when used properly) can open the mind and soul to new possibilities and can increase our awareness of the innate connection to the divine that we all possess. That could well be the main reason than psilocybin, fly agaric, marijuana, salvia divinorum etc have come under such sustained attack from TPB. The LAST thing they want is a humanity conscious of its own divinity and power.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:40 PM   #8
Lorien
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinamentum View Post
Alright

Swag is the majority of weed that comes up here from Mexico. Most potheads that I know, get dank weed, that pretty much is grown locally all over America. There is no reason to buy swag. There is no reason to buy meth, if people want it, they should be able to have a tweaked out life and die a tweaked out death.

As for drug markets drying up, that will never happen. Drugs have shamanic-spiritual lessons and are needed for proper evolution. That is why they are here. Some need em some don't, but don't hate em. Except for tweekers, they can be hated.
Amen to that brotha! And yes, just like with most of my goods, I buy home grown marijuana, grown right in my home town.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post

It's also clear that 90% of drug sales in the US is for Marajuana, which is not an addictive drug - so users say.
I reckon it's very addictive, I saw friends of mine going crazy because they didn't have any. They would think nothing of driving 100 miles to get some if that was the only option.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:52 PM   #10
chitty
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA End of financial crisis, reduction in crime, calmer, more civilized society. The reason grass was made illegal in the first place was the work of the forestry/pulp and paper sector. Hemp makes far superior paper and its uses are many. MY 2 CENTS.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:23 PM   #11
islandman
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Steve,

I respect your decision to highlight the
plight of people caught up in the drugs trade.

The problem I have is summed up by you in the following sentence

The users know what's going on in the border towns. Do we suppose that dope users support and are in favour of the problems? Is the wasteful killing worth it for a toke? Are the users so egoist to let people die for their little high?

Is the wasteful killing and destruction of the planet and its people
worth it for our?

Oil,
Metals,
Consumer goods,
Food,
Timber Ect.....................

And the the list goes on and on. Im afraid alot of our little highs
in life and even our necessities have a consequence to the world around us,
so it is difficult single out a particular interest group.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

interesting thread. i feel fairly certain that the drug wars on the border are not about pot. cocaine, crack and meth are certainly more likely subjects for a drug war. the largest producer of pot in north america is british columbia, canada. b.c. has a huge forestry and mining sector, but the largest industry in b.c., by far, is pot. and it's illegal, so the govt misses out on taxes, big time. b.c. pot is known the world over. when i was in amsterdam a few years ago, 'northern lights'(bc pot), was the fourth reated pot in the world. imagine that the world loves b.c.pot, but it's an illegal industry in canada. it's stupid.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:59 PM   #13
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:03 PM   #14
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_G View Post
It's criminal again now over here Steve.

I reckon the real solution is to legalise it. It's ludicrous that a plant can be made illegal anyway, and if people can grow it in their own back yard then instantly you signal the end of the marijuana cartels and all the crime associated with them.

Legalise weed and criminalise alcohol and we'd see a very different and much improved world
High Steve and Steve,

Here are a few quotes from Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk this week posted under Re: Ron paul 10/20/2008 "New Era of Slavery": http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...?t=5753&page=2
Post #46 March 30, 2009: "End the War on Drugs"
or listen toll free at 1-888-322-1414

Quote:
Alcohol prohibition in the 1920’s brought similar violence, gangs, lawlessness, corruption and brutality. The reason for the violence was not that making and selling alcohol was inherently dangerous. The violence came about because of the creation of a brutal black market which also drove profits through the roof. These profits enabled criminals like Al Capone to become incredibly wealthy, and militantly defensive of that wealth.
Quote:
Similarly today, the best way to fight violent drug cartels would be to pull the rug out from under their profits by bringing these transactions out into the sunlight.
Quote:
Think of all the time and resources law enforcement could save if they could instead focus on violent crimes, instead of this impossible nanny-state mandate of saving people from themselves!

If these reasons don’t convince the drug warriors, I would urge them to go back to the Constitution and consider where there is any authority to prohibit private personal choices like this.
Quote:
I disagree vehemently with the recreational use of drugs, but at the same time, if people are only free to make good decisions, they are not truly free.
Quote:
The panic generated by the looming crisis in Mexico should not be redirected into curtailing more rights, especially our second amendment rights, as seems to be in the works. Certainly, more gun laws in response to this violence will only serve to disarm lawful citizens. This is something to watch out for and stand up against. We have escalated the drug war enough to see it only escalates the violence and profits associated with drugs. It is time to try freedom instead.

Last edited by peaceandlove; 03-31-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:07 PM   #15
Machinamentum
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Don't try to put the blame on the people who want an elevated state of mind, when it's American policy that that creates the problem. Remove the policy's, then Americans can start receiving the revenue. Why should some bad apples ruin my high. They are not my responsibility. So ya buy something from China more than likely some 5 year old girl made it for 2 cents an hour and works 18 hour days. So who is worse off? People who buy drugs from cartels who just wanna be left alone or buying product from slave labor.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman62 View Post
Silly man
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:50 PM   #17
Rainchild
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieG View Post
The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?
Believe it or not making marijauna illegal actually benefits the drug cartels because there is more demand for it in that situation. This is simple supply and demand. By decriminalizing marijuana it becomes part of the market and can be more easily suppressed because it's out in the open. This is why the war on drugs is failing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd_3H...e=channel_page
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:12 PM   #18
alyscat
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

late coming to this thread. Whether you buy weed or not, the killing will continue. I have friends who have moved out of Nuevo Larado, not because they're drug running, but because the crimelords are now having a great time with kidnapping. Her daughter was nearly dragged off the street by a kidnapper. It's not just drugs, it's greed.
alys
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:34 PM   #19
Machinamentum
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyscat View Post
It's not just drugs, it's greed.
BINGO

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Old 03-31-2009, 11:47 PM   #20
Argante
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

First of all... what an insulting, small minded, obviously baiting title for a thread.... especially from a moderator. I know we all have our opinions, but most try to avoid such insulting, immature posts.

Secondly, please feel free to write your elected Representatives and express your concern about this matter. I am sure the Brazil Government would be more than happy to listen to you seeing that they are the Country that your taxes go to.

There are many marijuana smokers that never buy or sell. They grow their own, thereby avoiding every slanted claim you have made in your op. Prohibition did not, and does not work. It's the making the substance illegal that brings in the criminal element.

By using your own logic... I will say that most of these murderers, kidnappers, and drug runners are males. Perhaps we should accuse all men of being drug lords and criminals. Perhaps we should have a law that makes it illegal for men to buy or own weapons, drive a vehicle, or be within fifty miles of the border. I am sure that would clear up the problem.

This OP is so obviously filled with anger and bias... I'm not even going to waste my time on it anymore. [/QUOTE]

Last edited by Steve_A; 04-01-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:33 AM   #21
oldpaganfreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainchild View Post
Believe it or not making marijauna illegal actually benefits the drug cartels because there is more demand for it in that situation. This is simple supply and demand. By decriminalizing marijuana it becomes part of the market and can be more easily suppressed because it's out in the open. This is why the war on drugs is failing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd_3H...e=channel_page
hey rainchild. decriminalization is not the answer at all. if pot is 'de-criminalized', criminals will still be selling it. all decriming does is give pot smokers a break. it must be legalized. that way people can grow their own, or buy it from govt authorized outlets, allowing taxes and income for the govt.

and argante, i think you need to smoke a dube and relax.
i think we're having a pretty nice little discussion here. mellow out and join us. you obviously have stuff to say.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:04 AM   #22
Iceman
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Last edited by Iceman; 04-01-2009 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:13 AM   #23
Humble Janitor
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Default Re: Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

Actually Steve_A, the problem is NOT the drug cartels or violence but rather the mere fact that drugs are illegal in the first place.

Legalize drugs and the black market will dry up.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:21 AM   #24
Dantheman62
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HaHa Steve A you got bashed hard dude! LOL, but he deleted it.

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Old 04-01-2009, 01:24 AM   #25
Machinamentum
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HaHa Steve A you got bashed hard dude! LOL, but he deleted it.



I can't believe he did that!

That was a proper bashing.
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