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Old 02-18-2010, 02:33 AM   #76
Frank Samuel
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Talking Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

In the infinite beyond space and time there's many things we have yet to understand. Here's a doozy of a question which makes my head spin: if God create us who created God ? Where there other Gods ? For me the word God is affiliated with mythology, legends and this sort of things; anything we do not fully understand we label God. Please do not misunderstand I do believe in an origin of all things . However as most of us here know humans are a genetic experiment and I do not believe the so call God had anything to do with it.
What I do not know is; how did we originally decide to inhabit a human body? Did the creators of the genetic experiment intentionally force us to inhabit the human body? Did the origin of all things decide to level the playing field by giving humans a fighting chance?
I am ever so grateful to be a part of this creation experience and I know there's a lot yet to be done to liberate all of us from the chains of human ignorance. My feeling is that there's many other worlds in the same situation that we are in, seeking the same type of answers. What I know for sure is that our soul has a dwelling place and it is infinite .
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:36 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa View Post
Thanks Steven, I share your point of view and you express it way better than I do.

Beren & Truthseekerdan, you guys are gonna crucify me for this...
Nevertheless, I buy Billy Meier's story:
  • ET Gabriel got Mary pregnant with Jmmanuel (whom we call Jesus).
  • So when Jesus look to the sky and say "Father", he is calling ET Gabriel.
  • God for the ETs (according to Meier) is the most knowledgeable or spiritually evolved person in their society.
  • We got the word God from them when they came to rule us in the past.
  • Besides that, ETs believe that there is a Creation greater than "God".
My pleasure Lisa. I appreciated the reading of the Talmud also. What I found very interesting was the reference in the Universal Laws in this version of Jesus life. He called them the Laws of Creation, which are most definitely at work everywhere all the time. What surprises me is the near absence of the Laws of Creation in many religion and spiritual leaders. Well, to be honest, it does not really surprises me .

Personally, I like my Ego and will never attempt to crucify it . Ego does not mean egocentric of "big Ego". It is only your current personality, essential for your soul to evolve. I see there are a lot of different point of views about this, this makes the world richer! Here is how I see the Ego: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showp...6&postcount=41

I also see a confusion with the concept of duality. I have study a bit of buddhism, but I really do not see this concept as problematic. I see sometimes a confusion with freewill and choices. Freewill is a principle in Creation, so choices are available to sentient beings. Living with choices brings consequences and impacts on us and our surrounding. That's how we may learn and evolve with understandings. That is also why there are extremes, what we often "tagged" as polarity, which is not the case. There is duality, its nor good nor bad, it is part of Creation. Duality is also part of Oneness, it takes two for Love to flow in between...

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 02-18-2010 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:38 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa View Post
Nevertheless, I buy Billy Meier's story:
ah the guy that Jesus said is more spiritual evolved than Himself

all according to Mr Meier

I buy 2
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:55 AM   #79
14 Chakras
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Quote:
In the infinite beyond space and time
IS the eternal NOW where you and I AM beyond the illusions of the Matrix.

Quote:
Here's a doozy of a question which makes my head spin: if God create us who created God ?
Before Abraham was I AM. There is no begining and no ending, only IS. There is nothing outside of the infinite. The infinite is not some 'thing'. The infinite is infinite potentiality. What exist is infinite potentiality. No thing at all exist, only infinity. We are individualization's of infinite potentiality. No thing created infinite potentiality. It just IS. God is not some guy in the sky. God is not seperate from anything. To make even any kind of an image of the infinite is instantly a graven image, because the infinite truly is INFINITE. That's the basis of God ~ INFINITY NOW.

Time and space are creations that we are playing in right now ~ BE-yond them is eternally NOW ~

In reality, BE-yond Duality you and I AM infinite potentiality ~


Quote:
Where there other Gods ?
There is only Oneness ~ Yet there are infinite individualization's of infinite potentiality Co-creating in symbiotic unity in the eternal NOW.

There are many God's, many Masters, there is a very large spiritual hierarchy in our particular universe that leads up to Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end of this creation ~ but not the end of us ~ it is our eventual destiny, when we surrender our own illusions of separation and are reborn in Oneness with I AM, to grow our unique perspective in Oneness with All that IS and eventually create our own universe! This is not going to happen anytime soon , but it is part of our journey's in the schoolroom's and playground's of infinity ~ We're here in this dense area now to learn lessons about how to connect to Love and our source even when the illusion of separation is so strong...

Quote:
For me the word God is affiliated with mythology, legends and this sort of things; anything we do not fully understand we label God.
I like to call it 'the Infinite'.

It must be learned by humanity now for us to pass the test that are in front of us. There is no God in the sky responsible for our conditions. That is a false god. The only true God is the I AM that is accessible directly within us in the stillness of the Now. We're co-creators, we've created our problems, and now we'll let the Father Mother within Be the doer to bring forth solutions.

Quote:
However as most of us here know humans are a genetic experiment and I do not believe the so call God had anything to do with it.
We are a spiritual experiment. Can souls earn their divine individuality in this dense environment? Can they eventually see through the veil? Or do they choose to remain forever associated with the unconsciousness until their evolutions cease completely. It is time now to see whether the experiment has been a success:

We face a choice: to BE or not to Be


Quote:
how did we originally decide to inhabit a human body?
We came from many different evolutions. All of us however have fallen under the spell of amnesia. Now it is time to Awaken. We are MORE than the thinker. It is time to grow up, to evolve beyond our lack and limitation and take responsibility for our own world and creations. The choice and opportunity is ours.

Quote:
My feeling is that there's many other worlds in the same situation that we are in, seeking the same type of answers.
We have an exceptionally diverse level of evolutions here. Fixing our problems here will have powerful reverberating effects throughout cosmos and help heal the consciousness of many species and groups throughout the galaxy and universe. As we raise up the densest (Earth), it will push everything above it higher. We are here for an exciting time and an important mission ~ the freeing and raising up of planet Earth and it's peoples!


Quote:
What I know for sure is that our soul has a dwelling place and it is infinite .
Yes. That's the ticket to gaining back our rightful place in Being.

The reality is, that we are that divine spark that rest within us. We simply need to awaken to it, and Now is the time to do it!

Espavo (<Lemurian for: thank you for taking your Power!)
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:56 AM   #80
lisa
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and wisdom!

Yeah RedeZra, this I am not sure.
Meier never said this outright (as far as I know), but a few shreds of his material lead one to imply that he is Jesus reincarnate.

As with most people, I listen to many different sources.
I spend more time on sources that I find more reliable.
Then I buy some and don't buy some.

Last edited by lisa; 02-18-2010 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:19 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa View Post
Meier never said this outright (as far as I know), but a few shreds of his material lead one to imply that he is Jesus reincarnate.
Lisa,

Jesus did not have to reincarnate on this Earth 2k years ago.
He was already an ascended being (soul).

Jesus chose (volunteered) to reincarnate from Pure Divine Love that he has for us.
He knew that humanity at that time needed Him for spiritual awakening...

Hope this helps.

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Old 02-18-2010, 04:52 AM   #82
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Two posts that were immediately above this one have been deleted for inappropriate language and one that quoted same.

A..
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:05 AM   #83
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Thank you Anchor. Appreciate it.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:09 AM   #84
Frank Samuel
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14 chakras thank you for your detail answers. The purpose of my questions is to spark creative conversations emanating beyond words but directly connected to our infinite souls who holds the answers to many of these questions. Once we let go of the illusion of self many things become crystal clear. I hope my questions do not offend anyone for that is not my intention, I simply wish to stir your original mind to search for answers beyond the written word thereby breaking the barriers of our limited understanding of our origin. For there is so much more to learn and to grasp. I respect each one of your views and we are all here because we decided to incarnate in this moment in time for a very special purpose. Is an exciting time my friends .

Blessings and good night to all...
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:13 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
14 chakras thank you for your detail answers. The purpose of my questions is to spark creative conversations emanating beyond words but directly connected to our infinite souls who holds the answers to many of these questions. Once we let go of the illusion of self many things become crystal clear. I hope my questions do not offend anyone for that is not my intention, I simply wish to stir your original mind to search for answers beyond the written word thereby breaking the barriers of our limited understanding of our origin. For there is so much more to learn and to grasp. I respect each one of your views and we are all here because we decided to incarnate in this moment in time for a very special purpose. Is an exciting time my friends .

Blessings and good night to all...

Yes ~ And I forgot to put disclaimer above my personal answers above: Just sharing my personal take on things at this time ~ there is always MORE and discussion like you say Frank ~ that comes from us connecting to our own Divine spark within, and sharing what comes forth, is always the ideal ~ Espavo ~
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:19 AM   #86
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It is not fashionable to shun organized religion. It is common sense.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:38 AM   #87
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[QUOTE=14 Chakras;240072]What does it mean to be fully enlightened? If All is from the One source, then if I'm fully enlightened to that reality, that I truly AM an extension of my Source which is the infinite, then should I not at the very least, be able to do the works that Jesus did only greater works than these should I BE able to do?

I suggest, we realize, there is always MORE, and some teachers help us climb higher, but should we become dependent on teachers or teachings outside of ourselves, we can never surpass them. Full enlightenment to me, means knowing that I AM the eternal student, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to those who are as children ~ always learning, always BEING MORE
end quote

Dear 14
That is exactly it.
Hawkins dosent look for followers and im not one he is just more than I at this moment in time. You could say he is further up the mountain and is showing me and others a fast track to be more than I am at this moment.
Enlightenment is a well accepted condition in spiritual terms, and they, the mystics do see oneness literally.
When you have read his books in depth then the value stands out.
If I want more then I listen to some one who has more, not talking about it, but being it.
The books explain why few are enlightened and that is changing rapidly.
There is nothing that you have said that Im not in harmony with 14 it just a question of the way we express ourselves. Hawkins is saying similar to you.
Enlightenment may at some point in time be considered a kindergarten of spirituality because there is always more.
God is transcendent and inament Therfore he is in me and in you.
We are the totality all of it, we just havent had subjective experience of that as yet.
The Mystic has.

The Higher Self the God in me has healed people.
Its a question of levels.
I am aware of what Chris is saying and doing and many times I laugh but he (me) is fun to have around.

Regards Chris
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:42 AM   #88
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The movie 'Legion' definitely made God unfashionable...and I haven't heard if this worked at the box-office. I went to see it...and I was disappointed. The premise had a lot of potential...but they blew it...in my view. The gratuitous violence and lack of real theological substance spoiled it for me. However...if you've looked at some of my threads and comments...I have speculated regarding Disfunctional Deities and Archangels. Viewer Discretion Advised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mFn9EhgU4

Namaste
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:00 AM   #89
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #90
kriya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
In the infinite beyond space and time there's many things we have yet to understand. Here's a doozy of a question which makes my head spin: if God create us who created God ? Where there other Gods ?
Hello Frank,

I know 14 Chakras has already responded to your post, but as a religious studies teacher, I get asked this question about who made God about 3 times a day. This is how I explain it:

Think of God as a circle, infinite, without beginining or end, never born or died, just is....absolute

Think of humanity as a straight line, finite, birth at one end and death at the other, relative.

Because we live in a finite world with beginnings and endings, it is very difficult for us to understand concepts of infinity and absolutism.

I hope that helps,

Love,
Kriya
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:16 AM   #91
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Firstly, thankyou Anchor, did not read removed comments but i trust in your moderation skills.

Secondly, thankyou to all contributors thus far, all inspiring.

Here is another bitesize piece from the Bhagavad Gita.

Ch 16 Texts 1-3

The supreme personality of Godhead said:
Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquility; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honour...

This is a description of people endowed with the divine qualities.

Ch 16 Text 4

Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance - these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature.

Ch 16 Text 5

The transcendental qualities are conducive, whereas the domoniac qualities make for bondage.

Ch 16 texts 7-9

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behaviour nor truth is found in them.

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust.

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible acts meant to destroy the world.

.....
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:34 AM   #92
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From the original article,


But, like a thirst for water, or hunger for bread, the appetite for understanding an ultimate reality and the fascination with the possibility that our origins lie within that reality, and that a greater peace can be found there – these just seem to be an intrinsic part of human nature. Deny them and you deny a fundamental part of who we are.

Even if you think that humans are weak, but part of human evolution is that we all move toward a greater understanding of our weaknesses and learn to deal with them; and even if you think that mankind has reached that point when all childish beliefs have to be put away if they threaten our safe progress; still you would have some explaining to do.

You would have to explain why some of humans greatest achievements in many fields have been inspired or nurtured by the spiritual impulse. Remove religion from history and it all turns into a colourless, sterile, biological narrative.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
In the infinite beyond space and time there's many things we have yet to understand. Here's a doozy of a question which makes my head spin: if God create us who created God ? Where there other Gods ? For me the word God is affiliated with mythology, legends and this sort of things; anything we do not fully understand we label God. Please do not misunderstand I do believe in an origin of all things . However as most of us here know humans are a genetic experiment and I do not believe the so call God had anything to do with it.
What I do not know is; how did we originally decide to inhabit a human body? Did the creators of the genetic experiment intentionally force us to inhabit the human body? Did the origin of all things decide to level the playing field by giving humans a fighting chance?
I am ever so grateful to be a part of this creation experience and I know there's a lot yet to be done to liberate all of us from the chains of human ignorance. My feeling is that there's many other worlds in the same situation that we are in, seeking the same type of answers. What I know for sure is that our soul has a dwelling place and it is infinite .
All too often...the church and clergy are extremely resistant to change...and rarely admit that they don't know or that they are wrong. God, the church, the clergy, and the scriptures have to look good...and be beyond reproach or question. It all seems to have a lot to do with money and power...and not wanting to spook the herd aka the saints. God is represented as having no beginning...being all powerful...all knowing...all loving...present everywhere...and as being the creator of everything. 'Creator of All Things'? Does this mean 'Creator of Ill Things'? What if everyone and everything...including God...evolved? Or...what if everyone and everything...including God (Gods and Goddesses?)...are products of both evolution and intelligent design? What if God (Gods and Goddesses?) and the Archangels (Gods and Goddesses?) have been (and are?) disfunctional (like everyone else)? What if God is a Reptilian Being? What if God is one of us (or two of us)? 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQEm_hI9_cU 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDOZW340e5k 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEO1...eature=related I'm so gonna burn.

If the sun has spots...are we then to avoid it's light...and live in caves (or DUMB's)?

Namaste

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Old 02-18-2010, 04:45 PM   #94
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when a sinner becomes a saint

the conversion of Saul into St Paul


Saul was a ferocious Pharisee and a defender of doctrine

Caiphas the High Priest of Jerusalem sent him with soldiers to prosecute the fleeing followers of Jesus

Saul was on a mission to deliver the deathblow to Christianity


at the gates of Damascus Saul failed and fell

like one struck by lightning

and the Light spoke to him

" Saul Saul Why do you persecute Me "


astonished Saul asked

" Who are You Lord "


and the Light answered

" I Am Jesus whom you are persecuting

It is hard for you to kick against the goad
"


blinded pinned down and helpless not so free at all

surly Saul did acknowledge


It is hard to go against the Will of Divinity



so the story of Saul ends and the work of Paul begins
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:04 PM   #95
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I wish to focus on the 'Great Commission' in Matthew 28:19-20: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

What did Jesus tell His followers to teach all nations? "To observe all things whatever I have commanded you." Did Paul do this? Did any of the New Testament writers do this? Has any Christian church done this in the past 2,000 years? Is Romans through Revelation really Anti-Christ (in place of Christ) in nature? Is Churchianity the Antichrist? Is Protestantism really Reformed Catholicism? Is any church based solidly on the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus?

Was Jesus a Red Letter Christian?? Indeed! He was the first! He was, and is, the CEO! Have His 'followers' followed His clear instructions? In most cases no! Why is this? Does this constitute insubordination? There may be some surprises in the hereafter! More importantly, what are we going to do to correct this failure to carry out a direct order by our Commanding Officer???

Namaste
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:57 PM   #96
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Oxy, just focus and become strong in yourself. Just be good and leave the rest to God
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:20 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
What did Jesus tell His followers to teach all nations? "To observe all things whatever I have commanded you." Did Paul do this?

these are the Commandments

on which we stand and fall


for the Love of God

love one another



this is the Law

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Old 02-18-2010, 06:29 PM   #98
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Oxy, just focus and become strong in yourself. Just be good and leave the rest to God
I'm the most reverent and irreverent person imaginable...simultaneously. I'm into the Divinity Within Humanity and the Exaltation of Humanity...rather than being individually God-like (which often seems to be more Satan-like due to getting the God-concept wrong). The big problem is that we have dressed-up and showed up at church...and left the rest to 'God' aka the Annunaki, Interdimensional Reptilians, the Vatican, the City of London, Washington D.C., and all manner of corruption. The Creator God of the Universe seems to be AWOL. We seem to be dealing with Wanna-Be Gods and Goddesses. I want to know what the hell is going on...and I want to know NOW. We have not been told the true history of the Universe. Alex Collier and Anna Hayes may be on the right track...but I am almost as wary of their versions of history...as I am regarding the official sanitized tripe. Unfortunately...I have a sinking feeling that when I am told the truth...I will hate the messenger...and wish that I had never asked for the truth in the first place. Truth is often a two-edged sword. Check out the links on this thread regarding Earth and Universe History: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron


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Old 02-18-2010, 06:30 PM   #99
kriya
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Originally Posted by RedeZra View Post



these are the Commandments

on which we stand and fall


for the Love of God

love one another



this is the Law
My two most favourite commandments are:

Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul.

AND

Love your neighbour as yourself.

Love,

Kriya
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:17 PM   #100
lisa
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Blessed are you who have strong faith
who do not waver despite massive evidence to the contrary.
For you are the Chosen Ones
and you will surely pass through the Gates of Heaven.

Hope Heaven is as nice as advertised!
For those who are God-fearing, it baffles me why you would want to sit next to God for Eternity...

Anyways, one more word about religion and I will throw up, so I will stay away for awhile.
However, rest assure that I will be back, because I think that blind devotions are dangerous in a manipulated society.

Take good care!
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