A holographic approach to government: what does that mean?

TraineeHuman · 09-24-2009, 05:14 AM

In his presentation at the conference, Alex Collier strongly implied our planet needs to change to a “holographic” type of social order, rather than the existing “hierarchical” one (which I would say has become almost feudal, or threatens to become so in the future). It isn’t easy to work out what “holographic” concretely means here. Does anybody have any ideas?

And how does this combine with having a society guided by mentoring from benevolent aliens?

In her also outstandingly good presentation, Marcia Schafer emphasized we need to practice listening to the ordinary people around us and then finding a way to talk about such things in their language. So how might we start doing that on this particular topic?

One idea that comes to mind for me is that maybe a hologram works kind of like a blueprint. And architects and builders already use blueprints, so maybe the way they conduct projects is similar to the way "government" should work in the future? Of course, "government" may no longer be exactly the right term at some future point?

What I like best about this Forum is that other people's viewpoints so often enable me to see things in a new way. So I'd welcome any wild or considered snatches of inspiration or comment or intuition.

DiVineEnvy · 09-24-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraineeHuman

So I'd welcome any wild or considered snatches of inspiration or comment or intuition.

The work of Jeff Vail regarding rhizomic structures of organization comes to mind:

Quote:

What is Rhizome?

Rhizome takes it name from plants such as bamboo, aspen, or ginger that spread via a connected underground root system. As metaphor, Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari used rhizome to refer to a non-hierarchal form of organization. I have extended this metaphor, refering to rhizome as an alternative mode of human organization consisting of a network of minimally self-sufficient nodes that leverage non-hierarchal coordination of economic activity. The two keys concepts in my formulation of rhizome are 1) minimal self-sufficiency, which eliminates the dependencies that accrete hierarchy, and 2) loose and dynamic networking that uses the "small worlds" theory of network information processing to allow rhizome to overcome information processing burdens that normally overburden hierarchies.

More here...

and HERE (PDF)...

orthodoxymoron · 09-24-2009, 05:50 AM

In the mid-90's interviews...Alex Collier seems to say that the ET's (both benevolent and malevolent) should just go away and leave us alone. Of course he was claiming to be receiving mentorship from the Andromedans. Alex also seems to say that the Andromedans have a one-world government...and that Earth should have a one-world government based on the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Compare what he is saying now with this lecture in 1995. Do the 'holographic-government' and 'alien-mentorship' statements represent a paradigm-shift for Alex? I don't know if there is a shift or not. See what you think. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5947939806971#

giovonni · 09-24-2009, 09:10 AM

Regarding the term changing> A holographic approach to government

I believe Alex Collier is refering to how we perceive the need for such (government) in our lives and the way we go about trying to fix instead of solving our problems. Using humankinds intuitive mind > instead of its ego

would be a good start in that direction

The holographic principle is a mathematical principle that the total information contained in a volume of space corresponds to an equal amount of information contained on the boundary of that space.
old phyics out > quantum string theory in!

Stop the insanity!!!
Keep it honest and simple

TraineeHuman · 09-26-2009, 08:12 AM

Very interesting, DiVineEnvy. Looks like the essence of a rizome is self-sufficiency. Certainly, self-sufficiency must be a feature of anything that’s organized holographically. That’s because in a hologram, by definition each microcosm – each individual or family or village or community – has to be a miniature version of the whole, complete in itself.

Self-sufficiency sure is something we lack in our society. We certainly need more of it. For instance, I know from personal experience that one ideal form of work seems to be self-employment. The first two times in my life that I was successfully self-employed – for two years and three years respectively – were exhilarating times. I experienced all the excitement and satisfaction of being my own “managing director”. Every decision about the business, about every tiny, mundane detail, was wholly my own responsibility, all the time. I was always behind the eight ball, so work was never boring. The feeling of power was kind of intoxicating. But it was power over myself, not over others. That’s the right kind of power, I guess. It was the power to create ways to serve my clients or customers better. Creation starting out of nothing. It’s great stuff. I’ve found that close teamwork can be just as satisfying too. Maybe even more so – but only if you feel equally as personally empowered to create as in the self-employed situation, and so then you’re co-creating rather than just creating on your own.

Obviously, having hierarchical control to the point where things like money and oil are ultimately owned and controlled by a small group is the opposite situation to self-sufficiency for anybody -- except those who are in the small group.

I don’t see, though, how we can have a society essentially based on self-sufficiency unless we get spiritual and emotional/psychological self-sufficiency. It seems to me that at present, around 90% of the adult population seem to rely on the judgment or advice of others. Particularly when it comes to working out many of the choices that determine what happens in their lives. The other 10% see themselves as “leaders”, but are often manipulative, and certainly often good at leading others over cliffs and then completely ignoring the resulting destruction. Maybe the right balance would be to be a leader just of yourself.

Don’t give away control of your life to others, as Alex Collier says over and over, quoting his Andromedan contacts. It’s a subtle form of slavery, as Alex also repeatedly implies.

The material by Vail that you provided links to didn’t seem to me to explain how to combine self-sufficiency with something equally essential. I’m referring to some kind of strong consensus or harmonious interdependence. Self-sufficiency is really independence. It won’t work without having interdependence as well. But thanks very much. At least some of the issues relevant to how to have a holographic society are getting onto my horizon now.

At present, of course, self-sufficiency in almost any sense is rare in our society. To quote Alex:

"We have perceived that you Terrans have arranged your lives not according to yourselves, but according to others."

So much so that we have lost understanding of who we even are, and of how we are all capable of vastly more, as Alex says.

Fredkc · 09-27-2009, 11:55 PM

A holographic approach to government...

There was an article, back in 1991, that was one of the first things I ever read on the web, but also captured my imagination on a couple subjects. I have saved it, and kept it on every website I've ever had.
Title: "The Universe As Hologram"
and I believe these three paragraphs capture a bit of what Collier meant.

To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams commingle) is captured on film.

When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears.

The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose.

Such a thing only makes sense to me when built around a guarantee of personal sovereignty. An each-to-another agreement of personal liberty, without harm.

You don't build this with some top-down, ant farm approach. After all, from all we can gather, do the greys seem like a happy, satisfied bunch to you?

I think ours is a greater challenge, and a greater reward.

Fred

TraineeHuman · 09-28-2009, 01:54 AM

Very interesting, FredKC. One of a number of reasons why I find that article you've linked interesting is that I believe I know that we all create our experience -- our universe -- far, far more than we consciously realize. That is also what the ancient Indian and Chinese schools of philosophy that were aligned with meditation taught.

You can even prove that that's true -- though my apologies if the following is a little abstract or philosophical for some readers. The sum total of "the universe" as I understand it, or ever could understand it, is contained within, or occurs through and by, my consciousness of the universe, and therefore within my consciousness. But: everything that's inside my consciousness is inside of me. Therefore, it follows that I am as big as the universe -- which is precisely what a person discovers experientially when they experience (the lowest level of) spiritual enlightenment (or "union with God", or "the kingdom of heaven"). In a way, I see that as the ultimate hologram.

As far as what you say about "the" Grays goes, it's my considered opinion that you've been misled by disinfo there. It would take a very long discussion, involving a little bit of further philosophy at an abstract level, among other things. So I won't go there now (humble apologies), other than to suggest that the individual sovereignty you suggest requires a very high level of support and trust from all the other sovereign individuals, or else it won't work. I guess somebody with a sick or paranoid imagination could call that level of teamwork a "hive mind", and then other people may believe such a person because they don't know any better, or because such a person claims to have knowledge based on encounters etc etc.

As far as I'm aware, most of the ETs that live permanently in the physical world are "Grays". Also, various robots, and also AI abominations created by humans, get to cop the "Gray" label.

Steven · 09-28-2009, 08:54 PM

Instead of having one head government who has all the information and technology available, you have several cells with the same information and technology located everywhere among the whole.

Instead of having one head government who decide and command, you have several regional cells who decide and command locally. The union of the cells are based on principles that the whole adopt.

Alex didn't mention it, but in this case, the principles are very very important to be accepted form the whole because they become the spine of all the cells coordination and harmony.

Thanks FedKC for the link.

Namaste, Steven

Hombre · 12-29-2009, 09:33 PM

Getting an attention is easy, it is enough to flush with a catchy slogan. "Holographic society" sounds scientific enough but the Andromedian origin elevates to a holy gospel. It is amazing that nobody asked for explanation. It seems nobody had time to google. when one does it one will discover that this concept has very earthly roots.

just few links only. let everybody does his/her homework.

http://www.plexusinstitute.org/edgew..._filing10.html

http://www.istr.org/conferences/toro...diniz.lisa.pdf

It looks to me like the same **** wrapped in a different paper.

09-24-2009, 05:14 AM	#1
TraineeHuman Avalon Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 174	A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? In his presentation at the conference, Alex Collier strongly implied our planet needs to change to a “holographic” type of social order, rather than the existing “hierarchical” one (which I would say has become almost feudal, or threatens to become so in the future). It isn’t easy to work out what “holographic” concretely means here. Does anybody have any ideas? And how does this combine with having a society guided by mentoring from benevolent aliens? In her also outstandingly good presentation, Marcia Schafer emphasized we need to practice listening to the ordinary people around us and then finding a way to talk about such things in their language. So how might we start doing that on this particular topic? One idea that comes to mind for me is that maybe a hologram works kind of like a blueprint. And architects and builders already use blueprints, so maybe the way they conduct projects is similar to the way "government" should work in the future? Of course, "government" may no longer be exactly the right term at some future point? What I like best about this Forum is that other people's viewpoints so often enable me to see things in a new way. So I'd welcome any wild or considered snatches of inspiration or comment or intuition.

09-24-2009, 05:50 AM	#3
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? In the mid-90's interviews...Alex Collier seems to say that the ET's (both benevolent and malevolent) should just go away and leave us alone. Of course he was claiming to be receiving mentorship from the Andromedans. Alex also seems to say that the Andromedans have a one-world government...and that Earth should have a one-world government based on the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Compare what he is saying now with this lecture in 1995. Do the 'holographic-government' and 'alien-mentorship' statements represent a paradigm-shift for Alex? I don't know if there is a shift or not. See what you think. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5947939806971# Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 09-24-2009 at 06:27 AM.

09-24-2009, 09:10 AM	#4
giovonni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: within my heart Posts: 1,209	Re: : what does that mean? Regarding the term changing> A holographic approach to government I believe Alex Collier is refering to how we perceive the need for such (government) in our lives and the way we go about trying to fix instead of solving our problems. Using humankinds intuitive mind > instead of its ego would be a good start in that direction The holographic principle is a mathematical principle that the total information contained in a volume of space corresponds to an equal amount of information contained on the boundary of that space. old phyics out > quantum string theory in! Stop the insanity!!! Keep it honest and simple Last edited by giovonni; 09-24-2009 at 09:28 AM.

09-26-2009, 08:12 AM	#5
TraineeHuman Avalon Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 174	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? Very interesting, DiVineEnvy. Looks like the essence of a rizome is self-sufficiency. Certainly, self-sufficiency must be a feature of anything that’s organized holographically. That’s because in a hologram, by definition each microcosm – each individual or family or village or community – has to be a miniature version of the whole, complete in itself. Self-sufficiency sure is something we lack in our society. We certainly need more of it. For instance, I know from personal experience that one ideal form of work seems to be self-employment. The first two times in my life that I was successfully self-employed – for two years and three years respectively – were exhilarating times. I experienced all the excitement and satisfaction of being my own “managing director”. Every decision about the business, about every tiny, mundane detail, was wholly my own responsibility, all the time. I was always behind the eight ball, so work was never boring. The feeling of power was kind of intoxicating. But it was power over myself, not over others. That’s the right kind of power, I guess. It was the power to create ways to serve my clients or customers better. Creation starting out of nothing. It’s great stuff. I’ve found that close teamwork can be just as satisfying too. Maybe even more so – but only if you feel equally as personally empowered to create as in the self-employed situation, and so then you’re co-creating rather than just creating on your own. Obviously, having hierarchical control to the point where things like money and oil are ultimately owned and controlled by a small group is the opposite situation to self-sufficiency for anybody -- except those who are in the small group. I don’t see, though, how we can have a society essentially based on self-sufficiency unless we get spiritual and emotional/psychological self-sufficiency. It seems to me that at present, around 90% of the adult population seem to rely on the judgment or advice of others. Particularly when it comes to working out many of the choices that determine what happens in their lives. The other 10% see themselves as “leaders”, but are often manipulative, and certainly often good at leading others over cliffs and then completely ignoring the resulting destruction. Maybe the right balance would be to be a leader just of yourself. Don’t give away control of your life to others, as Alex Collier says over and over, quoting his Andromedan contacts. It’s a subtle form of slavery, as Alex also repeatedly implies. The material by Vail that you provided links to didn’t seem to me to explain how to combine self-sufficiency with something equally essential. I’m referring to some kind of strong consensus or harmonious interdependence. Self-sufficiency is really independence. It won’t work without having interdependence as well. But thanks very much. At least some of the issues relevant to how to have a holographic society are getting onto my horizon now. At present, of course, self-sufficiency in almost any sense is rare in our society. To quote Alex: "We have perceived that you Terrans have arranged your lives not according to yourselves, but according to others." So much so that we have lost understanding of who we even are, and of how we are all capable of vastly more, as Alex says.

09-27-2009, 11:55 PM	#6
Fredkc Project Avalon Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Riverside, ca. Posts: 898	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? A holographic approach to government... There was an article, back in 1991, that was one of the first things I ever read on the web, but also captured my imagination on a couple subjects. I have saved it, and kept it on every website I've ever had. Title: "The Universe As Hologram" and I believe these three paragraphs capture a bit of what Collier meant. To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams commingle) is captured on film. When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears. The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Such a thing only makes sense to me when built around a guarantee of personal sovereignty. An each-to-another agreement of personal liberty, without harm. You don't build this with some top-down, ant farm approach. After all, from all we can gather, do the greys seem like a happy, satisfied bunch to you? I think ours is a greater challenge, and a greater reward. Fred __________________ "Life IS mystical! It's just that we're used to it" Evil cannot be killed. Only redeemed. Chat us up at: Avalon Chat

09-28-2009, 01:54 AM	#7
TraineeHuman Avalon Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 174	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? Very interesting, FredKC. One of a number of reasons why I find that article you've linked interesting is that I believe I know that we all create our experience -- our universe -- far, far more than we consciously realize. That is also what the ancient Indian and Chinese schools of philosophy that were aligned with meditation taught. You can even prove that that's true -- though my apologies if the following is a little abstract or philosophical for some readers. The sum total of "the universe" as I understand it, or ever could understand it, is contained within, or occurs through and by, my consciousness of the universe, and therefore within my consciousness. But: everything that's inside my consciousness is inside of me. Therefore, it follows that I am as big as the universe -- which is precisely what a person discovers experientially when they experience (the lowest level of) spiritual enlightenment (or "union with God", or "the kingdom of heaven"). In a way, I see that as the ultimate hologram. As far as what you say about "the" Grays goes, it's my considered opinion that you've been misled by disinfo there. It would take a very long discussion, involving a little bit of further philosophy at an abstract level, among other things. So I won't go there now (humble apologies), other than to suggest that the individual sovereignty you suggest requires a very high level of support and trust from all the other sovereign individuals, or else it won't work. I guess somebody with a sick or paranoid imagination could call that level of teamwork a "hive mind", and then other people may believe such a person because they don't know any better, or because such a person claims to have knowledge based on encounters etc etc. As far as I'm aware, most of the ETs that live permanently in the physical world are "Grays". Also, various robots, and also AI abominations created by humans, get to cop the "Gray" label.

09-28-2009, 08:54 PM	#8
Steven Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Temiscouata Posts: 873	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? Instead of having one head government who has all the information and technology available, you have several cells with the same information and technology located everywhere among the whole. Instead of having one head government who decide and command, you have several regional cells who decide and command locally. The union of the cells are based on principles that the whole adopt. Alex didn't mention it, but in this case, the principles are very very important to be accepted form the whole because they become the spine of all the cells coordination and harmony. Thanks FedKC for the link. Namaste, Steven Last edited by Steven; 09-28-2009 at 10:54 PM.

12-29-2009, 09:33 PM	#9
Hombre Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1	Re: A holographic approach to government: what does that mean? Getting an attention is easy, it is enough to flush with a catchy slogan. "Holographic society" sounds scientific enough but the Andromedian origin elevates to a holy gospel. It is amazing that nobody asked for explanation. It seems nobody had time to google. when one does it one will discover that this concept has very earthly roots. just few links only. let everybody does his/her homework. http://www.plexusinstitute.org/edgew..._filing10.html http://www.istr.org/conferences/toro...diniz.lisa.pdf It looks to me like the same **** wrapped in a different paper. Last edited by Hombre; 12-29-2009 at 09:36 PM.