Read this article and then my thoughts.

Egg · 04-01-2009, 12:53 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...underwear.html

Quote:

Travellers in America are being asked to pass through whole body scanners at airport security checkpoints, which penetrates their clothing.

The new technology, developed by New York based L3 Communications, has raised concerns after it was revealed that underwear is visible in the scans.

So they want total body scanning in all airports that can see through our clothes to see if we have any hidden weapons or items on us do they? or do they? let me explain a bit about my back ground and why I think they have another motive for fitting these in airports (and soon train stations and ferry points).

First off a bit about myself. I in a former employment sector used to work in ultra secure government controlled buildings. Simple fact was we walked in, there were metal detectors and frisk bays. You set the alarm off, you got the works by security. This was in and out.

However there was a flaw in this. Certain groups of people carried all manner of items from fire arms to explosives through these scanners and with one simple wave of a badge that said in so many words 'forget you saw me, forget you saw that on the scanner' waltzed right past without any hinderance.

There lay the problem and it came to bite them on the butt one day when an insider event caused a major security breach. Now you ask wjy I am telling you this - well, here is why.

The passengers are not the security threat in an airport. The staff are - they get badges airside, carte blanche wave throughs at the screening centre and skip all checks. That badge gets them immunity. I raised this at an interview I had for a security department chief, and they looked at me like I had sixteen eyes and a shape shifters body. I didn't get the position because I said I would re-screen all staff, and have all staff go through all checks every single time they wanted to go airside. I got laugheds at by one senior manager to my face.

In short, the fact they screen / vet a staff member and it comes back ok seems to slacken their concern to zero. Well I can tell you now that in my experience it is not the public we should be worried about, but the enemy within the gates.

How do you think so many mobile phones and drugs get into secure places? its not the prisoner who brings it in is it?

Egg · 04-01-2009, 12:56 AM

Now - they want these in place for a reason and that reason is to strip your mind of any self dignity and respect as you go through 'their controlled areas'.

This isn't about security - this is about stripping you of dignity and making you feel less than you should do. This is about inducing paranoia and making an illusion that you are secure. They want you to forget that nearly all the times terror has struck aircraft, staff were the ones who smuggled on the weapons and explosives for later use, not Mr Abdul carrying it onboard in his hand luggage.

In short, I am looking at as well the frequencies and penetration characteristics of this system, because I have a horrible feeling there is yet another tier of control being used in this system.

I'll get back to you on this one.

Egg

alyscat · 04-01-2009, 12:59 AM

Well, I"m not sure that seeing me in my undergarments wouldn't make them either laugh or throw up.

However, that said, Egg, I agree with you. Although I do see a lot of pilots/crew going through the same checks we do, the fact that there are people in the airport who can get through without the same scanning shows a big hole in security.
alys

Egg · 04-01-2009, 01:08 AM

Alys - If you have an airside badge for say gatwick and work from gatwick with a british airside badge you get a free ride. You won't get stopped.

Same with US airports. You have a US vetted airside badge, you get free pass. Its the same with every country I have sat and observed the comings and goings of peoples (for academic work and security sector employment).

Also, airside workers such as baggage handlers and security staff could just waltz right through and no one would blink an eye as long as they had that uniform and badge.

Humans are creatures of habit, and think about this - ever worked in an environment where a uniform was worn? your work colleagues will smile and say hi to you all the time when at work in that uniform, and yet out of work in civvie clothing they blank you. Why? because the creatures mind of habit says 'I don't recognise you in plain clothes as a friend'.

Herd mentality. Those that dress the same think the same. Hence the major security flaws at airports.

blastawaycas · 04-01-2009, 02:53 AM

INCREDIBLE.........I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING WRITTEN IN SUCH PLAIN LANGUAGE, I HATE AIRPORTS FOR THE REASONS YOU HAVE SAID. YOU DO INDEED FEEL STRIPPED OF YOUR DIGNITY AND I MUST ADMIT I PERSONALLY FEEL VIOLATED AND ABUSED. I COULD WELL IMAGINE BODY SCANNERS EXASERBATING THAT FEELING, BUT MORE THAN THAT.......IN 2005 I HAD A MAJOR STOMACH OPERATION ..AFTER THE OP I HAD TO GO FOR A SCAN WHILST AT THE SAME TIME DRINKING A BARIUM TYPE MEAL, THE SCAN MADE ME FEEL PHYSICALLY SICK AND I WAS LEFT SHAKING UNCONTROLLABLY, HIGH FREQUENCIES CAN DO THAT CAN'T THEY AND ULTIMATELY ULTRA LOW FREQUENCIES CAN KILL YOU.........IF YOU PASS THRU ONE OF THESE SCANNERS APART FOM BEING VIOLATED YOU COULD BE LEFT IN A SUBMISSIVE OR SUGGESTIVE STATE..........GOOD THREAD EGG
KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER

burgundia · 04-01-2009, 02:19 PM

what about health issues? Is this safe for our health to be scanned like that?

iainl140285 · 04-01-2009, 02:27 PM

Seems like a good way to check who is chipped and who isnt ... or is that over suspicious??

Peace
Iain

Egg · 04-01-2009, 02:41 PM

Health issues and RFID interefence / monitoring is what I am digging into right at the moment. I want to wait till I have the exact frequencies for this machine - as then I can approach cardiac and neuro specialists for their feed back.

iainl140285 · 04-01-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg

Health issues and RFID interefence / monitoring is what I am digging into right at the moment. I want to wait till I have the exact frequencies for this machine - as then I can approach cardiac and neuro specialists for their feed back.

Nice one Egg!

Czymra · 04-01-2009, 03:51 PM

Step proudly when naked!
Seriously though, I mean, at least you will know and be aware.

I'm more concerned about taking off belts and shoes as it actually inconveniences me physically. This, of course, is purely in the regard of dignity, not RFID or health.

alyscat · 04-01-2009, 03:54 PM

I would guess (and that's the operant word here) that if the machine were problematic for people with - say - pacemakers and defibs, that there would be some sort of warning on it, and those people would have to do a physical search.

alys

Egg · 04-03-2009, 01:22 AM

Millimetric radio waves 10 thousand times less powerful than a mobile phone signal. No ionising radiation involved, this is all radio waves - so unlike an xray device there are no exposure dangers or hazards.

Frequency is classified due to the implications of being able to defeat / shield / adapt a body suit to reflect as human skin would.

Safe for all medical implants and devices as there is no penetration of the skin - only a scattered reflection from the skins surface - the only thing it cannot do is cope with people who cannot stand for the required scan time.

Thats the good news.

piers2210 · 04-03-2009, 01:37 AM

Good thread, Egg. Like what you say.

I used to curse the time it took to get through security at Heathrow, but it has got better. Maybe it was the Monopolies Commission telling them they had to divest Gatwick and Stanstead. Good thing too.

But you're right, you can't breach the security systems, you have to "go round them".

04-01-2009, 12:56 AM	#2
Egg Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 727	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Now - they want these in place for a reason and that reason is to strip your mind of any self dignity and respect as you go through 'their controlled areas'. This isn't about security - this is about stripping you of dignity and making you feel less than you should do. This is about inducing paranoia and making an illusion that you are secure. They want you to forget that nearly all the times terror has struck aircraft, staff were the ones who smuggled on the weapons and explosives for later use, not Mr Abdul carrying it onboard in his hand luggage. In short, I am looking at as well the frequencies and penetration characteristics of this system, because I have a horrible feeling there is yet another tier of control being used in this system. I'll get back to you on this one. Egg

04-01-2009, 12:59 AM	#3
alyscat Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Washington state Posts: 743	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Well, I"m not sure that seeing me in my undergarments wouldn't make them either laugh or throw up. However, that said, Egg, I agree with you. Although I do see a lot of pilots/crew going through the same checks we do, the fact that there are people in the airport who can get through without the same scanning shows a big hole in security. alys

04-01-2009, 01:08 AM	#4
Egg Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 727	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Alys - If you have an airside badge for say gatwick and work from gatwick with a british airside badge you get a free ride. You won't get stopped. Same with US airports. You have a US vetted airside badge, you get free pass. Its the same with every country I have sat and observed the comings and goings of peoples (for academic work and security sector employment). Also, airside workers such as baggage handlers and security staff could just waltz right through and no one would blink an eye as long as they had that uniform and badge. Humans are creatures of habit, and think about this - ever worked in an environment where a uniform was worn? your work colleagues will smile and say hi to you all the time when at work in that uniform, and yet out of work in civvie clothing they blank you. Why? because the creatures mind of habit says 'I don't recognise you in plain clothes as a friend'. Herd mentality. Those that dress the same think the same. Hence the major security flaws at airports.

04-01-2009, 02:53 AM	#5
blastawaycas Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Middlesbrough United Kingdom Posts: 229	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. INCREDIBLE.........I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING WRITTEN IN SUCH PLAIN LANGUAGE, I HATE AIRPORTS FOR THE REASONS YOU HAVE SAID. YOU DO INDEED FEEL STRIPPED OF YOUR DIGNITY AND I MUST ADMIT I PERSONALLY FEEL VIOLATED AND ABUSED. I COULD WELL IMAGINE BODY SCANNERS EXASERBATING THAT FEELING, BUT MORE THAN THAT.......IN 2005 I HAD A MAJOR STOMACH OPERATION ..AFTER THE OP I HAD TO GO FOR A SCAN WHILST AT THE SAME TIME DRINKING A BARIUM TYPE MEAL, THE SCAN MADE ME FEEL PHYSICALLY SICK AND I WAS LEFT SHAKING UNCONTROLLABLY, HIGH FREQUENCIES CAN DO THAT CAN'T THEY AND ULTIMATELY ULTRA LOW FREQUENCIES CAN KILL YOU.........IF YOU PASS THRU ONE OF THESE SCANNERS APART FOM BEING VIOLATED YOU COULD BE LEFT IN A SUBMISSIVE OR SUGGESTIVE STATE..........GOOD THREAD EGG KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER

04-01-2009, 02:19 PM	#6
burgundia Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 3,442	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. what about health issues? Is this safe for our health to be scanned like that?

04-01-2009, 02:27 PM	#7
iainl140285 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 974	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Seems like a good way to check who is chipped and who isnt ... or is that over suspicious?? Peace Iain

04-01-2009, 02:41 PM	#8
Egg Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 727	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Health issues and RFID interefence / monitoring is what I am digging into right at the moment. I want to wait till I have the exact frequencies for this machine - as then I can approach cardiac and neuro specialists for their feed back.

04-01-2009, 03:51 PM	#10
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Step proudly when naked! Seriously though, I mean, at least you will know and be aware. I'm more concerned about taking off belts and shoes as it actually inconveniences me physically. This, of course, is purely in the regard of dignity, not RFID or health.

04-01-2009, 03:54 PM	#11
alyscat Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Washington state Posts: 743	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. I would guess (and that's the operant word here) that if the machine were problematic for people with - say - pacemakers and defibs, that there would be some sort of warning on it, and those people would have to do a physical search. alys

04-03-2009, 01:22 AM	#12
Egg Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 727	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Millimetric radio waves 10 thousand times less powerful than a mobile phone signal. No ionising radiation involved, this is all radio waves - so unlike an xray device there are no exposure dangers or hazards. Frequency is classified due to the implications of being able to defeat / shield / adapt a body suit to reflect as human skin would. Safe for all medical implants and devices as there is no penetration of the skin - only a scattered reflection from the skins surface - the only thing it cannot do is cope with people who cannot stand for the required scan time. Thats the good news.

04-03-2009, 01:37 AM	#13
piers2210 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 403	Re: Read this article and then my thoughts. Good thread, Egg. Like what you say. I used to curse the time it took to get through security at Heathrow, but it has got better. Maybe it was the Monopolies Commission telling them they had to divest Gatwick and Stanstead. Good thing too. But you're right, you can't breach the security systems, you have to "go round them".