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Old 01-10-2009, 12:33 AM   #1
giovonni
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Thumbs down YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

I first heard about this (New Year Day) incident, last night (on npr) driving home.
I was so stunned, I had to pull over for a while. After arriving home, preparing dinner, then...
I say the video on the nightly news!! Couldn't eat...

This man was executed right in front of the world!!

Bay area> local abc news video report here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulqU7...eature=related

article story here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5480713.ece

one of the actual youtube video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tmh9B8LVxM

Last edited by giovonni; 01-10-2009 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:59 AM   #2
blastawaycas
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

what the hell is going on that was a most shocking piece of video. the police have lost any chance of ever earning respect after that and for all those "good bobbies" left in the world as well as in the usa they must feel like just giving up, my deepest sympathies to this gents family and friends and all those unfortunate enough to ever witness such brutality at the hands of these "nazis" and also all those good coppers around the world trying to make a difference
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

holy ****.same sort of thing happened here in canada 2 or 3 years ago.just google search ian bush houston b.c. not much resolve on it,almost forgotten.about 6 months ago,i went through a road block,fairly common these days with all the "drinking driving" goin on or "seatbelt" checks.what made this one different was the cop asked if we had any guns or drugs in the car.nothin about drinking or seat belts. we said no they said carry on.out of the hundred or so road blocks i,ve been through, that was a first.thanks gio good post.peace out kent
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

I heard through the grape vine that this may be a very sad case of the Police Officer thinking he was reaching for a taser and deploying that and not his side arm.

Thats not official, thats just thoughts about why such a barbaric act was done on a restrained man. A taser deployment would be done just like this - face down if he was resisting arrest.

The officer has resigned straight off, and is yet to find out what legal implications he will face.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

It's like egg said, it was a mistake, he drew his gun instead of his tazer, maybe a rookie?, I know that I could tell the difference just by the feel, but hey who knows.
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Whether it was a mistake or not, the whole thing has become a complete mess. And the way they are cycling people into the big city police departments, it doesn't necesarrily have to be a rookie. Those guys, and gals don't get near the training they need.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

I'm sick of people saying "It was an accident" or "it was a mistake", if I speed by "mistake", I still have to pay the ticket. Alex Jones on his podcast on 9th Jan said more video emerged, showing this cop lost it & was almost foaming at the mouth when he shot the handcuffed guy in the back. Wake up and arm your self, because soon it will be your wife or child whose excuted by "mistake" Send this nazi to prison, sue the state of California & get justice now - an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. (M L KING)
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Well I would have to reply to that Martin Luther King quote with "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." It might have been a mistake. Or it might have been some racist, facist nazi death-dealing going on. I am not in the position to judge that particular event. What I do know is that the community around the incident did themselves no favors. What if that was your car, or shop that got trashed?
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Mulder, if you don't think it was an accident or mistake then are you saying he did it on purpose? And be assured that they will sue the state for multiple millions, and be sure that the cop will pay.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Good Luck....Every city in, and the State of California itself is broke. They will be paying government employees in script, and vendors with I.O.U.s by February.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

So true Astraeos!
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Just saw this

"Why is America ignoring the police 'execution' of a rail passenger?" which links here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neal-r..._b_156280.html
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

If the Officers defence team can prove that in training provided by his department, he was advised to wear the taser where he would normally wear his duty weapon and vica versa, he has ample room for a defence of death through accidental shooting.

He could demonstrate that muscle memory through repetition made him automatically think he was drawing his taser.

He won't ever be employed as an LEO ever again, will have to live with the death forever, but, and its a possible defence, he can prove that he was overloaded with stress and needed a swift response and made a fatal mistake, they will rather lower the charges to negligent manslaughter to get a conviction than have him walk free from a murder charge.

For murder there has to be intent. He could demonstrate amply there was none.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:32 AM   #14
giovonni
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Question Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg View Post
If the Officers defence team can prove that in training provided by his department, he was advised to wear the taser where he would normally wear his duty weapon and vica versa, he has ample room for a defence of death through accidental shooting.

He could demonstrate that muscle memory through repetition made him automatically think he was drawing his taser.

He won't ever be employed as an LEO ever again, will have to live with the death forever, but, and its a possible defence, he can prove that he was overloaded with stress and needed a swift response and made a fatal mistake, they will rather lower the charges to negligent manslaughter to get a conviction than have him walk free from a murder charge.

For murder there has to be intent. He could demonstrate amply there was none.
Greeting's Egg,
In retrospect after reviewing the video> your analysis, is well taken. As startled and shocked> as I was watching the clip on the nightly news; My eyes and senses gave me a strange feeling? The officer (who did not appear to be stressed or agitated), pulled his weapon and fired it> very matter of a factly> as if> fulfilling an automatically trained function? The other officers, at first, showed no emotion? It has been learned now> The bullet ricochet off the concreate wall piercing the young mans chest into his lungs. This, also indicates a possibility, the aiming was a random pointing in a general area> towards the mans body (trunk). This would, give good reason, to bring doubt, that it was not really intended as a execution, but a automatic function? This possibly too be demonstrated (by a good defense lawyer), that this was not out of anger, but a gross mistake, by a physical mechanical mishap? Still, it will be very difficult, for the officer to escape, any serious charges and possible jail time. Considing the negligence shown?

Anchor, does bring up a very good point> though? The local public reaction, seemed quite normal> in scope of the seriousness of the incident, but the national reaction> seems almost contrary, to past public reactions> toward this kind of incident? Could it be, we are becoming overwhelmed> by all that is happening and coming at us> in these dire times?

Last edited by giovonni; 01-12-2009 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

The riots are a natural fear response to an event that shows the 'common man' just how vulnerable and fragile a hold he has on this mortal coil, and how reckless those that are charged with his saftey are to the value of his life and continued welfare.

As for the drawing of the pistol and the trunk shot. I watch again and again that video, and some thing I would want to know - was this guy a former security officer who was taser armed only? as the trunk shot is an automatic hit area for saftey reasons.

I actually think the guy zoned out, went to a pattern of behavior he felt safe with, and in his mind drew and deployed a taser and not his service weapon.

What ever happens though, he will do serious time in jail for it. 10 years minimum. If he doesn't, the riots now will look like play time compared to what will happen if he walks free.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Ok, now I think I may have definitive evidence here of the officer's intent.

This seems to be the best audio/video (although for this the audio is more important) I can find of the incident.

I've just been talking w/ my sister who is a rookie (first year) cop about this. She explained that before she (and most municipalities) would taser anyone, they are supposed to say loud and clear, "Tase, Tase, Tase", and that she thought she could hear it in this video.

There is alot of backround noise, but I think i can make out those words just before the officer actually shot. The video is restricted I guess so you have to log in to youtube to see it, but if anyone listens, please tell me if you hear what I hear, because I'm not 100% sure.

And I agree w/ gio that the cop seems pretty calm before and then after he (and eveyone) hears the report from his shot, he seems very surprised. I do think it looks like a direct shot rather than a ricochet though.

I was pretty adamant that this was unexuseable no matter what the officer's intent actually was. Gun and taser certainly do not feel the same in hand, and for most police (and it looks like this guy too) they are holstered on specific sides of their body.

So while I do think this was more than likey a mistake, I do think that this cop should stand trial for (specifically) manslaughter.

Last edited by raulduke; 01-12-2009 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

BRILLIANT THREAD LIKE READING A SHIRLOCK HOLMES STORY (I AM NOT TRIVIALISING THIS ISSUE I AM REALLY IMPRESSED) AS I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH YOU GUYS SHOULD BE DETECTIVES WELL DONE AND BRILLIANT RESEARCH BY ALL, AS I HAVE ALREADY WROTE FANTASTIC WELL THOUGHT OUT THREAD KINDEST REGARDS AND WISHES DAVE CASTER
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

I agree with Mulder................the cops think nothing of grabbing their tasers or guns. I have seen enough.

They are killing people with those damn tasers also.

I seen one cop pull a black pregnant women IN LABOR from a car and she had told him what was going on and he shot her after he threw her to the ground.

Who the hell do they think they are? They bring all this **** unto themselfs.

In my family are cops and I know for a fact that their children carried cards that read "I am a cops kid do not hurt me" but now a days the cops shoot then ask questions. I want them to get over themselfs and get back down to earth. A taser should be used only if the person is REALLY resisting. In so many cases that is not the story.

The cops are out of line
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:32 AM   #19
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

And its gonna get worse....as you will no doubt be aware uk police generally do not carry weapons however (apart from armed response units) in the Cleveland Constabulary which is a reletively small constabulary with Middlesbrough Stockton Hartlepool Billingham Redcar Guisborough areas to cover but that is small compared to Northumberland Yorkshire Durham (sorry to go on just trying to draw a picture for international readers)
Cleveland is issuing all officers with tazers by the years end with a view to increasing armed response and the general feeling amongst other officers is that all officers will be going for weapons training and armed n the future.

Last edited by blastawaycas; 01-13-2009 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Bump: Anyone tried listening to this per my last post?

Do you hear the cops saying "Tase"? I'm like 85% sure I heard it. Try using headphones.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

No I couldn't tell rd, but I could see the surprised look on the cop that shop him., like WTF.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Thanks Dan.

Did u listen to the video in the link in my post or gio's? Cause I think it's much clearer in the unedited (for news) one I put up.

You know I find it kinda weird that I'm even trying to defend this cop the little that I am. I still think he should stand trial for manslaughter.

I'm really questioning the need to taser at that point in the first place. It looks like the victim was already handcuffed when he was shot, not to mention they had him outnumbered like 3 or 4 to 1.

The tasers that police use are classified only as "less lethal" weapons, meaning that there is the potential to kill if overused. I think that BART (and all police for that matter) should reconsider the use of tasers. It seems like they've become addicted to using them in any minor situation, probably simply because of how much easier it is to taser someone then the other options.

I must say that I disagree w/ mulder on this one though. I don't think that this cop had any intention to kill the guy. From what I've read, he is a second year rookie, and doesn't appear to be "frothing at the mouth" to me at least (Alex Jones loves to exploit this kinda thing).
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Hey rd, I watched your link, and I agree with you. Actually I think the cops face turned white as a ghost like holy s...t what did I just do. And I'm not defending him either, I don't like cops! LOL!
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

I have watched that video on you tube and i have to agree with you chaps he does look a bit taken aback as though "a tazer don't pop" "ohh **** what have i done....you alright kid!!", what an absolute incompetent twat i take back my earlier comment regarding nazis............................................. ............................ They were not incompetent.............. Poor bugger
my heart goes out to this kids family and the wife and kids of this cop if he has them they are gonna get emotionally tortured over this incompetent pleb.
Once again anything i have written is with all due respect i am so taken aback by this event
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:23 AM   #25
giovonni
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Unhappy Re: YouTube video fuels US riots over killing of Oscar Grant

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastawaycas View Post
And its gonna get worse....as you will no doubt be aware uk police generally do not carry weapons however (apart from armed response units) in the Cleveland Constabulary which is a reletively small constabulary with Middlesbrough Stockton Hartlepool Billingham Redcar Guisborough areas to cover but that is small compared to Northumberland Yorkshire Durham (sorry to go on just trying to draw a picture for international readers)
Cleveland is issuing all officers with tazers by the years end with a view to increasing armed response and the general feeling amongst other officers is that all officers will be going for weapons training and armed n the future.
blastawaycas
I think your on to something>
from antaleangles post

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9865

I think our good friend rauldude sums it all up with this quote
"I'm really questioning the need to taser at that point in the first place. It looks like the victim was already handcuffed when he was shot, not to mention they had him outnumbered like 3 or 4 to 1."

Last edited by giovonni; 01-14-2009 at 01:31 AM.
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