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Old 04-02-2009, 06:13 PM   #1
Antaletriangle
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Default Permits to photograph!?

Hello,i have just arrived back from trying to photograph a friend of mine for a web site he's designing for his music and writing.
I had just taken my camera out and was attaching a different lens when this security guard appeared from nowhere asking me "Have i permission?"
The place i was at is a public area and is known as a local beauty spot-kids were there,people walking dogs etc.
Two police officers joined the fanfare-i wasn't impolite,stated i was unaware of this new law?? etc. He turned a blind eye but persisted there was a new guard starting his shift at 5.30 and isn't as forgiving!!
Please, this is a beauty spot on public land as i'm aware with no warning signs of trespass or fences-i have been used to visiting this place from a child's age!
Two police officers and security guards-wild stuff- taxpayers pay for the 'privelege' of going to open spaces to escape the eveeels of this world now i'm an illegal for taking a photo of a friend because i have a pro. camera!!!
I don't know your thoughts on this,for one, this place is a mad hole.

Last edited by Antaletriangle; 04-02-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:20 PM   #2
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

That's just sick, obviously those cops don't have anything better to do. Man what a joke, I probably wouldn't have been as nice as you were. Did you laugh in their face and say c'mon man you can't be serious? Did you go ahead and get the shots anyway?
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Yeah i did i got some shots-there were others there with camera phones etc-we'd just arrived he popped out with his badge etc.He just had me- mad, mate!!Mowcop the place is everyone goes there locally from time to time.
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Hi, i must say here that this is from the bfp site of which i am a paid up member (bfp) bureau or freelance photographers.

This is what the site says:

BFP acts to protect photographers' rights
As more than 200 MPs put their signatures to Austin Mitchell’s Early Day Motion condemning police harassment of photographers in public places, the Bureau of Freelance Photographers (BFP) launches a major initiative in an attempt to tackle the problem on the ground.

As part of its campaign for photographers’ rights, every UK member is being issued with the BFP “Blue Card” – a card that asserts photographers’ rights to take pictures in public places. The card may help members who find themselves being stopped from taking pictures in public places. In such circumstances, the Bureau feels that members may find it useful to show the card to the particular police officer, security guard or other official. The card is written in simple language; it is short and to the point and has been legally validated. It is small enough to be slipped into a camera bag or pocket.

But will it work? Will the card have the desired effect? BFP chief executive John Tracy says: “With the increasing number of photographers – both amateur and professional – being stopped by police officers from legitimately taking pictures, we felt we had to do something. We have written to the police, we have lobbied MPs, but ultimately, whether a photographer is prevented from taking pictures, is down to the individual officer on the ground. We feel that the card, if used with tact and discretion, may have the desired effect of emphasising to an officer the fact that photography in public places is a legitimate and, in 99 cases out of 100, legal activity.”

The organisation is asking members to “report back on their experiences of using the card – whether positive or negative”. John Tracy adds: “We will report on these experiences through the Newsletter and if the majority of members find that the card does help, all well and good. If, on the other hand, the majority find it doesn’t work, or even exacerbates the situation, we will report that too. “But personally, I don’t think the latter will be the case. I think it’s more likely that, in some circumstances, members will find the card helpful and, in other circumstances, they won’t.”

Meanwhile, the BFP campaign continues. We hope to be part of a delegation being put together by Austin Mitchell to see Home Office minister Tony McNulty to urge that clear instructions be issued “to make it clear that there is a right to take photographs in public places”.

I have the card mentioned but have never had to use it nor do i know of any new laws which forbid the taking of pictures in public places, as long as you have the concent of a unknown person that may be caught in the shot.

Ammit
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

Good read.

Section 44 of the anti terror act is scary.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=836675

In short, the Police are your enemy - the violent bullying arm of the facist state. They don't like their murderous actions caught on camera (ala Stockwell tube shooting) and have changed the law to suit their violent despicable attitudes.
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

To answer though - there is NO law against street photos.

Quote:
In a statement, Number 10 said that while there were no legal restrictions on taking pictures in public places, "the law applies to photographers as it does to anybody else".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7888301.stm
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Hi Ammit,

By the look of things the Bereau of Freelance Phatographers knows and understands that taking photographs in public places can be frowned upon.

It's not that you don't have the right to take photographs, it's that you don't have the right to take the wrong photographs.

In this day and age, there is heightened security for many reasons, but as the thread starter stated that he was taking photographs where there were children, this security is doubly heightened.

I think a quick phone call to the town hall in the right department, not to ask for permission, but to inform them what you intend to do (remembering to note the name of the person you speak to) goes a long way and after the first call, subsequent calls are easier because you get to know the person in the department.

As long as we understand why law officers, be them security guard, police officer or whatever, need to question photographers, then the whole process becomes more pleasant.

I hope you got some good shots and leave the address of the website so we can check out your work!

Best regards,

Steve




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammit View Post
Hi, i must say here that this is from the bfp site of which i am a paid up member (bfp) bureau or freelance photographers.

This is what the site says:

BFP acts to protect photographers' rights
As more than 200 MPs put their signatures to Austin Mitchell’s Early Day Motion condemning police harassment of photographers in public places, the Bureau of Freelance Photographers (BFP) launches a major initiative in an attempt to tackle the problem on the ground.

As part of its campaign for photographers’ rights, every UK member is being issued with the BFP “Blue Card” – a card that asserts photographers’ rights to take pictures in public places. The card may help members who find themselves being stopped from taking pictures in public places. In such circumstances, the Bureau feels that members may find it useful to show the card to the particular police officer, security guard or other official. The card is written in simple language; it is short and to the point and has been legally validated. It is small enough to be slipped into a camera bag or pocket.

But will it work? Will the card have the desired effect? BFP chief executive John Tracy says: “With the increasing number of photographers – both amateur and professional – being stopped by police officers from legitimately taking pictures, we felt we had to do something. We have written to the police, we have lobbied MPs, but ultimately, whether a photographer is prevented from taking pictures, is down to the individual officer on the ground. We feel that the card, if used with tact and discretion, may have the desired effect of emphasising to an officer the fact that photography in public places is a legitimate and, in 99 cases out of 100, legal activity.”

The organisation is asking members to “report back on their experiences of using the card – whether positive or negative”. John Tracy adds: “We will report on these experiences through the Newsletter and if the majority of members find that the card does help, all well and good. If, on the other hand, the majority find it doesn’t work, or even exacerbates the situation, we will report that too. “But personally, I don’t think the latter will be the case. I think it’s more likely that, in some circumstances, members will find the card helpful and, in other circumstances, they won’t.”

Meanwhile, the BFP campaign continues. We hope to be part of a delegation being put together by Austin Mitchell to see Home Office minister Tony McNulty to urge that clear instructions be issued “to make it clear that there is a right to take photographs in public places”.

I have the card mentioned but have never had to use it nor do i know of any new laws which forbid the taking of pictures in public places, as long as you have the concent of a unknown person that may be caught in the shot.

Ammit
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Common sense rules here though, and the scum in the Police have no common sense at all. In fact, it seems that it is now rapidly becoming mandatory to be a souless evil little facist to get the job.

Sorry, but since 9-11 and this war on 'Terra', I have slowly awakend to the fact that this is what they want - a scared, sensless, cowering population afraid of the man in uniform and will do as they say when they say whenever they say.

Half life 2 any one? You citizen, pick up the can.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:03 PM   #9
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I'd bet a lot of money that the police are being indoctrinated that anyone taking photos is planning a terrorist attack, possibly compiling a dossier on them, something like that. These guys get brainwashed just as much if not more than the public do. It just reinforces the "us and them" mindset the PTB rely on- they want us to view the police with fear and the police to view us as a threat.

A lot of these guys are decent people doing a tough job as best they can. The vast majority don't understand what's really going on any more than most other people, at least not on the ground level. I would agree the photography statute was passed because they don't want records of certain things, but it all stems from the War on Terror bu****it that came out of 9/11 and 7/7.

Last edited by Steve_G; 04-02-2009 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

How about that lad the other day who was arrested for 'theft by finding' after handing in amobile phone to a Police station? photo, finger printed and added to the DNA data base for having the good nature to hand in a phone he found in the street.

The Police are evil souless scum and getting worse by the day - they ruined a lads entire life because he was decent enough to hand some thing in? pathetic stasi tactics.

Reminds me of the sniper tactics in Iraq - leave an item on the ground, and who ever picks the said item up is guilty and can be shot.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

Here you go, theft by finding article. Now if this lad tries for a career with a security vetting he will have this sat there on file. a simple 'Yes' to the 'have you ever been arrested' could means his job ends before it even begins.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

Here you go, theft by finding article. Now if this lad tries for a career with a security vetting he will have this sat there on file. a simple 'Yes' to the 'have you ever been arrested' could means his job ends before it even begins.

I read that, isnt it an April fools or something? If not then a protest/campaign is in order! Questions need to be asked in the house of commons! The prime minisiter himself should be grilled on this. How can right thinking people stand by and watch this **** happen?

A..
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

ON TUESDAY 25th MARCH AT 20.30pm I WAS TAKING SOME FLASH PHOTOS IN MY BACK GARDEN I TOOK 8 IN ALL IT WAS FOR A PHOTOGRAPHY COURSE I AM ON JUST FOR A LITTLE RECREATION MY HOMEWORK WAS TO TAKE AND PRINT OFF SOME PIX (now i have to add that we are having some proper trouble with these neighbours........they're nutters) ANYHOW THEY CALLED PLOD AND HE TOLD ME ALL SORTS OF RUBBISH ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHING IN PUBLIC AND POINTING AT THERE CCTV CAMERAS etc I HAD TO MAKE MY CASE AND POINT OUT THAT IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL TO TAKE PICTURES ANYWHERE THE PUBLIC HAD ACCESS HE COME BACK WITH "HE COULD SIEZE MY CAMERA" ....... I TOLD HIM IF HE TOUCHED IT I WOULD MAKE A CITIZENS ARREST ON HIM FOR ATTEMPTED THEFT.......HE THOUGHT THAT WAS FUNNY ........I WAS SERIOUS........ HE THEN RADIOED FOR A VAN ...........TO ARREST ME I SUPPOSE ....HE THEN WENT OUTSIDE ON HIS RADIO AND A FEW MINUTES LATER HE CAME BACK IN MADE HIS EXCUSES AND LEFT !!!!!!!!!!!!
IF IT WAS'NT SO FUNNY IT WOULD BE TRAGIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Dave - The Police here in the Uk are wildly out of control in some aspects, and totally into appeasing other sections of society.

Had you been a Muslim, they would of taken off their shoes, asked your local religious leader permission to talk to you, and then thanked you ever so kindly and left the dog in the van in case you got offended.

Then you would get 60 thousand pounds for 'hurt feelings' as you decided the Police were racist.

That your not is why they feel they need to exercise maximum penalties against you.

A photographer? dammit, you must be plotting to steal the souls of all those you photograph - Hang him!
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

NICE REPLY EGG ......... WHERE WILL IT STOP...........WILL IT STOP..........
OH I THINK I AM BEING NIEVE........IT'S LIKE YOU STATED EARLIER THEY ARE BECOMING MORE LIKE THE STASI EVERY DAY, IT IS JUST GOING TO BECOME MORE AND MORE SUFFOCATING, THAT REPORT ON THE CHAP WHO WAS PHOTOGRAPHING SHIPS.........TRUST IT TO BE CLEVELAND POLICE !!!!
THANKS EGG AND ALL WHO ARE MAKING UP THIS THREAD ITS A GOOD ONE
KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastawaycas View Post
ON TUESDAY 25th MARCH AT 20.30pm I WAS TAKING SOME FLASH PHOTOS IN MY BACK GARDEN I TOOK 8 IN ALL IT WAS FOR A PHOTOGRAPHY COURSE I AM ON JUST FOR A LITTLE RECREATION MY HOMEWORK WAS TO TAKE AND PRINT OFF SOME PIX (now i have to add that we are having some proper trouble with these neighbours........they're nutters) ANYHOW THEY CALLED PLOD AND HE TOLD ME ALL SORTS OF RUBBISH ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHING IN PUBLIC AND POINTING AT THERE CCTV CAMERAS etc I HAD TO MAKE MY CASE AND POINT OUT THAT IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL TO TAKE PICTURES ANYWHERE THE PUBLIC HAD ACCESS HE COME BACK WITH "HE COULD SIEZE MY CAMERA" ....... I TOLD HIM IF HE TOUCHED IT I WOULD MAKE A CITIZENS ARREST ON HIM FOR ATTEMPTED THEFT.......HE THOUGHT THAT WAS FUNNY ........I WAS SERIOUS........ HE THEN RADIOED FOR A VAN ...........TO ARREST ME I SUPPOSE ....HE THEN WENT OUTSIDE ON HIS RADIO AND A FEW MINUTES LATER HE CAME BACK IN MADE HIS EXCUSES AND LEFT !!!!!!!!!!!!
IF IT WAS'NT SO FUNNY IT WOULD BE TRAGIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER
Blastawaycas, this is just stupid how far will the police go with this whole privacy thing!
What is this country coming to!
Antale do you remember the two old ladies who were taking photographs in the park last year!
They were asked to stop taking pictures because it was near a childrens swing area. The swings had just been painted and had some really interesting art work apparently this was why the lady wanted to take a picture of it.
They were asked to follow the police down to the station!
Crazy!!!!
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

YOU KNOW JAQUI D I WAS SO INSENSED WHEN THIS OFFICER CALLED TO BERATE ME ABOUT TAKING SOME SNAPS THAT THIS THREAD HAS INSPIRED ME TO GO OUT ALL WEEKEND AROUND THE STEELWORKS CHEMICAL WORKS DOCKS AND THE INFAMOUS GHOST SHIPS NEAR SEATON CAREW Nr HARTLEPOOL OH BOY SEE WHAT HAPPENS...........I WILL REPORT BACK IF I GET CHIDED OR KIDNAPPED BY THE LAW AUTHORITY KINDEST REGARDS DAVE CASTER
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

Some years ago, it was said in a judgment that there is “no law against taking a photograph in public areas”.
This implies a general freedom to take photographs that, sadly for photographers, does not really exist.

"UK - Anyone who 'appears to be taking photographs in a covert manner' should expect to be stopped and quizzed, warn police."

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...ws_175462.html

"UK police order amateur photographer to ‘delete’ pictures at tourist hotspot"

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...ws_180714.html


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Old 04-03-2009, 09:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg View Post
Common sense rules here though, and the scum in the Police have no common sense at all. In fact, it seems that it is now rapidly becoming mandatory to be a souless evil little facist to get the job.

Sorry, but since 9-11 and this war on 'Terra', I have slowly awakend to the fact that this is what they want - a scared, sensless, cowering population afraid of the man in uniform and will do as they say when they say whenever they say.

Half life 2 any one? You citizen, pick up the can.

a souless evil little facist ... Really Egg??
Its attitudes like this that will seperate the people from the police.

What you are doing here by using words like souless is making the police not human and that is sick!! My father is in the police and has been for many years. Of course you get one little power hungry toss and jobsworth, but how dare you brand them all with the same label and try to de humanise them.

I notice you are citing the out there stories from the local rags. How about you look at the stories not reported on, the ones where people lives are saved and massive hauls of drugs are removed from neigbourgh hoods.


Iain
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Permits to photograph!?

A couple of the shots i went ahead to get for his website page-i have made them a little dramatic -he's a brilliant satriani style guitarist for crikey's sake-he needs drama!!lol.







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Old 04-04-2009, 01:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iainl140285 View Post
a souless evil little facist ... Really Egg??
Its attitudes like this that will seperate the people from the police.

What you are doing here by using words like souless is making the police not human and that is sick!! My father is in the police and has been for many years. Of course you get one little power hungry toss and jobsworth, but how dare you brand them all with the same label and try to de humanise them.

I notice you are citing the out there stories from the local rags. How about you look at the stories not reported on, the ones where people lives are saved and massive hauls of drugs are removed from neigbourgh hoods.


Iain
They are all, every single one of them the paramilitary arm of a government hell bent on destroying every single freedom of every single person in the UK.

I don't give a monkies toss if every person on this board is a Police 'person' - The Police are nothing more than tax raising bullies who sold their souls years, decades ago to Politico types in return for uber power over the common man. The Police don't serve the communities, they subjugate them (unless of course its a muslim community and then the politico types have tied the Police in knots over 'ethnic' folks).

In short, the Police are no more part of normal society than a polar bear. They sit outside it, and do what they are told, when they are told, and they do not think about it as they do their masters bidding.

Miners strike, new age travellers, peace camps.... Police brutality is alive and well in Police state UK.
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:23 PM   #22
Antaletriangle
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http://www.bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/article...s-its-illusion

The BBC5 recording of this at stoke-on-trent.
Have a look at this if you wish to understand how corporate the police have become-the differences between police officers and policemen. Interesting-john harris in stoke feb this year.
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:43 AM   #23
iainl140285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg View Post
They are all, every single one of them the paramilitary arm of a government hell bent on destroying every single freedom of every single person in the UK.

I don't give a monkies toss if every person on this board is a Police 'person' - The Police are nothing more than tax raising bullies who sold their souls years, decades ago to Politico types in return for uber power over the common man. The Police don't serve the communities, they subjugate them (unless of course its a muslim community and then the politico types have tied the Police in knots over 'ethnic' folks).

In short, the Police are no more part of normal society than a polar bear. They sit outside it, and do what they are told, when they are told, and they do not think about it as they do their masters bidding.

Miners strike, new age travellers, peace camps.... Police brutality is alive and well in Police state UK.

Keep it up Egg - your true colours shine through the more you post.


Peace
Iain
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:49 AM   #24
Antaletriangle
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This reply was sent to me from a friend of mine who's a retired school master-very switched on individual:


This increasing harassment of amateur photographers by the authorities is
truly frightening. New rules enacted about six weeks ago make it a criminal
offence to photo. a policeman or "any person or object [I think they mean
building] that could be of use to terrorists" ah, that wonderful catch-all
term! I was looking into this recently for Alex when he wanted to walk
around N/castle with his camera. I no longer have the references but go to
guardian.co.uk/liberty central (or photographing policemen) and you might
find correspondence of
interest.
There was an item last week on a man arrested by London Transport
Pol. for photographing adverts in an underground staion - even if they
subsequently let him go uncharged, imagine the distress and upset.And of
course he would have no grounds of complaint if they were to confiscate
equipment "for security reasons" - another gloriously vague term.
To get back to your tale: I always thought Mow Cop was open country but even
if it isn't what possible harm could they think you were up to? And what the
hell were the police up there for?? We are reaching the stage when it will
shortly be deemed a criminal act to be seen in public with a camera. And
they get away with it. You've read 1984 - keep the people terrified of
unspecified, indeterminate danger, just drop hints that a dreadful fate is
lurking round the corner and you have carte blanche to put the most
repressive legislation on the statute book, corroding what few freedoms we
enjoy. But make sure you say you're doing it in the name of those very
freedoms
and you can get away with murder. Literally.
I'm scared.
I've just had another thought: you mentioned permit - was this rather a
commercial
operation, trying to make a profit out of you? Doesn't invalidate any of the
above. Or explain the police. Let me know what you think. L
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg View Post
How about that lad the other day who was arrested for 'theft by finding' after handing in amobile phone to a Police station? photo, finger printed and added to the DNA data base for having the good nature to hand in a phone he found in the street.

The Police are evil souless scum and getting worse by the day - they ruined a lads entire life because he was decent enough to hand some thing in? pathetic stasi tactics.

Reminds me of the sniper tactics in Iraq - leave an item on the ground, and who ever picks the said item up is guilty and can be shot.
That's why I said "a lot of these guys" not "all these guys." There are some decent coppers out there, though they're getting harder to spot.

The problem is the decent ones see what is happening (the corporate revenue collection allegations are all true) so they leave the force. They guys who like throwing their weight around and don't care about the right or wrong of it stay and have even more fun, because the voices of moderation and common sense are getting fainter.

Last edited by Steve_G; 04-05-2009 at 12:31 PM.
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