Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Project Avalon > Project Avalon General Discussion

Notices

Project Avalon General Discussion Finding safe places, information and resources for building communities, site suggestions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2009, 08:54 PM   #26
tone3jaguar
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: www.altimatrix.com
Posts: 1,525
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by seashore View Post
This is irrelevant.
What ever it takes to be right, even if it means ignoring the truth. Whatever, good luck with that.
tone3jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 08:56 PM   #27
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone3jaguar View Post
... ignoring the truth...
What truth is that?
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 09:16 PM   #28
tone3jaguar
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: www.altimatrix.com
Posts: 1,525
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by seashore View Post
What truth is that?
If you can't see the eloquent truth in how that Baktune calendar is structured based off of that presentation then I am not going to be able to get you to understand it here. He accidentally jumped to conclusions about what would transpire in the future. So what? Big deal? You are going to allow a mistake he made in trying to extrapolate what would happen in the future negate all the extraordinary information he had about the past and the accuracy of that calendar?

The whole point that he was trying to make in the presentation is that the Universe is evolving on a set schedule. Moreover on certain dates there are huge shifts in the over all theme of consciousness of the Universe that effect all that lies within it. You are going to throw out all of that because he was wrong about the future?

If you want to go back to Early November 2008, that is when the 6th day of the calendar started. That marked the spot where the power consciousness would begin to be completely purged from our experience. Then by the end of the 7th day things are supposed to have transformed drastically enough that the world would now be run by ethics. Think about what has happened since then. Corporations the world over have been exposed for the unethical policies they adopted in the quest for POWER! One after the other they are going down in flames. Once it is all said and done, you can pretty much bet that there wont be any business entities or government officials that will not be exposed for their POWER based, unethical behavior.

Ian assumed that when it came time to give up the white house that the bushes would fight to keep it, and all kinds of crazy stuff would happen. He was not aware that both parties are actually controlled by the same groups of people. If he had known that, his guesses would have been much closer to the truth.

So you see, the general over all theme of what the calendar was showing would happen to consciousness at this time is indeed occurring. The new vibration of ethics is flushing out the old vibration of power. Now it is not happening as fast as some of the more impatient of us would like. However I am great full that it is not happening to fast. When it happens really fast it is called a World War. Relax, sit back, and watch the Power Consciousness be cleansed from he planet over the next couple years, then come back and try to tell me that there was not truth in that presentation.
tone3jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 09:25 PM   #29
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone3jaguar View Post
If you can't see the eloquent truth in how that Baktune calendar is structured based off of that presentation...
I definitely see the eloquent truth of his interpretation of history. The grand sweep of history. Yes, indeed. Part 1 was excellent.
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 12:03 AM   #30
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

I think Nostradamus was stoned
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 12:20 AM   #31
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanny View Post
I think Nostradamus was stoned
You crack me up!!
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 03:06 AM   #32
taadev
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: America
Posts: 171
Thumbs up Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

I've found when one is predicting events based on intuition or whatever it is that "speaks" to us internally, the exact timing is the most difficult thing to be accurate.

He really put himself out there with these events however, that seem to not have materialized in mass, but many report going through something very unusual.

What I found interesting was the tie, to the date, in to the I Ching predictions of Time Wave Zero. (Pls ignore the fact someone put an Aztec calendar; I doubt it was McKenna.




awl,
T

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone3jaguar View Post
You guys are missing the point of the presentation, instead of seeing the obviously accurate interpretation of what the Calendar actually maps out, some of you are nit picking because a guy that is now no longer living tried his hand at predicting the future for the first time and it turned out that he was not any good at it. Forget about what he said was going to happen logistically, get outside your judgmental boxes and see the total picture of the message.

Last edited by taadev; 08-01-2009 at 12:56 AM. Reason: 2012, mayan, time wave zero, mckenna
taadev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 03:16 AM   #33
David
Avalon Senior Member
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 398
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Only our time will tell...
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 06:49 AM   #34
burgundia
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,442
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

predicting the exact time is like playing lottery, one day you'll win something. In I-Ching any number may signify a day, a month or a year. So if you get a number 5 for example, the event may occur within 5 days, 5 months or 5 years. I-Ching also say that if you know what might happen and if you take a given action, an outcome may change...for better or for worse, depending on your move.
burgundia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 07:03 AM   #35
truthseeker
Avalon Senior Member
 
truthseeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Near Halifax, W. Yorks, England
Posts: 26
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Hi Guy's,

Not commented much lately, largely because of some rather unpleasant difficulties with one of our neighbours over the last six months or so.

However, I feel I have to comment here on Ian Lungold's primary source for the Mayan Calendar, which is none other than Carl Johan Calleman.

The Calleman version of the Mayan Calendar is his alone and seems to have little basis within the Mayan tradition. I wrote extensively on this last year, so I refer all here to my comments then. They can be found repeated in the following 3 posts that I made: -

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...8610#post58610
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...1792#post11792
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...=9082#post9082

Calleman has claimed that his version of the Mayan Calendar is backed by the Mayan elder, Don Alejandro. However, John Major Jenkins shows, very satisfactorily to my mind, that Calleman has distorted the facts here. Please read the following links to Jenkins site: -

http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012-exchange.html
http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012.html

None of this means that their is no truth in what either Calleman or Lungold present. From the video of Lungold (now sadly deceased) he would seem to have been a very spiritual man. We do seem to be rapidly moving toward a singularity moment in the near future, whether that be in 2011, 2012, 2013 or whatever.

Finally, slightly off topic, but relating to my posts referenced above, I have a few further quick comments to make on the galactic alignment we are currently experiencing . According to my Starry Night Astronomy programme the December Solstice Sun eclipses or occults the galactic equator as it crosses the ecliptic (path of Sun trough Earth's sky) from 1976 to 2019 (dead centre in 1998). This occurs between the constellations of Scorpio and Sagittarius. At the other point where the galactic equator and ecliptic cross (i.e. between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus), the June Solstice Sun does precisely the same thing from 1977 to 2019.

In my humble opinion, from an astrological, and thus acausal, perspective, this galactic alignments significance is huge. However, astronomically speaking, within the material world of cause and effect, it is of little consequence, as the alignment is a very local phenomenon that relates only to our planet. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to expect a series of ‘cause and effect’ physical events in association with this alignment. However, physical and non-physical events that have a more acausal correspondence (synchronistic) to the underlying symbology of this alignment are very likely.

The concept of our solar system crossing our galactic plane is an entirely different phenomenon to the galactic alignment we are here referring to. Many have confused the two. According to current astronomical theory our solar system bobs up and down across the galactic plane very slowly over its 225 -250 million year orbit around the centre of our galaxy. The jury is still out as to exactly how far away we are from the galactic plane at the current time. Here are a number of links to various estimates (estimates of our distance above galactic plane, thanks to one Zyzygyz on Geoff Stray’s 2012 Dire Gnosis website): -


1. We are 20.5 +/- 3.5 parsecs north of the galactic plane - 1 parsec = 3.26 light years so this gives us 66.83 +/- 11.41 ly ( http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995AJ....110.2183H).
2. We are 33 parsecs north of the galactic plane = 107.6 ly (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/13/6/387.pdf).
3. We are 34.56 +/- 0.56 pc north of the galactic plane = 112.67 +/- 1.83 ly (http://www.springerlink.com/content/rg545302618n0673/).
4. We are 19.5 +/- 2.2 pc north of the galactic plane = 63.57 ly +/- 7.17 ly
(http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0507/0507655.pdf).
5. We are about 20 light-years "above" the equatorial symmetry plane (http://seds.org/messier/more/mw.html).
6. We are about 14 light years above the equatorial symmetry plane (http://www.astrodigital.org/astronom...temgalaxy.html).
7. We are about 20 light years north of the galactic plane (http://calgary.rasc.ca/howfast.htm).
8. We are 68 light-years north of the galactic plane (http://www.mndaily.com/daily/1995/11/16/news/space/).
9. We are 50 light-years above the mid-plane of the galaxy
(http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html).

The bottom line here is that our solar system is probably not crossing the galactic plane at the present time. Even if it were, owing to the long periods of time involved, it would be virtually impossible to specify a particular century, let alone year or day upon which such a crossing occurred. So claims that the 21st December 2012 marks such a crossing of the galactic plane are at best meaningless and at worst plane wrong.

Anyway, that will do now. I am off to Wales camping with my wife for a week. It will be nice to get away from our neighbours for a while, despite the rather wet weather forecast for the next few days..

Take Care and Best Wishes to you all,

Truthseeker (Andrew)
truthseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 07:31 AM   #36
burgundia
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,442
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

thank you Truthseeker for this post and enjoy yourselves..
burgundia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 09:12 AM   #37
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundia View Post

...I-Ching also say that if you know what might happen and if you take a given action, an outcome may change...for better or for worse, depending on your move.
To me, this is saying we don't know what is going to happen...

It seems to me that any predictions people make should be made with humility. This is the direction I see that we are moving toward. Not, this is what is going to happen.
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 09:22 AM   #38
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

truthseeker,

Can you answer my question about Calleman's claim on this thread?
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 11:06 AM   #39
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone3jaguar View Post
...Corporations the world over have been exposed for the unethical policies they adopted in the quest for POWER! One after the other they are going down in flames...
The taxpayer is the entity in the hot seat right now--not corporations.

We have a lot of work to do.
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 11:18 AM   #40
lemon_sky88
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio U.S.A.
Posts: 152
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanny View Post
I think Nostradamus was stoned
I think were all stoned !!! Actually He used techniques to put himself out of his mind or (stoned) in order to have his visions. I caint remember all the details but I watched a program that shows some of his methods and it involved going with out sleep for days on end. Not eating for periods of time. Theres alot more but I caint remember it all.
lemon_sky88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 04:04 PM   #41
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post

...They can be found repeated in the following 3 posts that I made: -

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...8610#post58610...
Here is a quote from the above link to a post that I find interesting, because I did not realize that this idea was unique to Calleman:

"...Jenkins states that 'the idea of conceiving the 13 baktuns of the Long count Great Cycle in terms of seven days and six nights is Calleman’s own, and it serves Calleman as a template for modeling history..."
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 02:33 AM   #42
Pomguymguy
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mooroopna Victoria
Posts: 113
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

As we are co- creators with the ALL - then what are we all here for?

No Worries - The Universe is expanding - it's ALL POSITIVE guy's

Pomguymguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 03:08 AM   #43
David
Avalon Senior Member
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 398
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Just thought this was fitting.


Aerosmith - Livin' On The Edge

YouTube - Aerosmith - Livin' On The Edge

Last edited by David; 07-19-2009 at 03:17 AM.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 06:52 AM   #44
asteram
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Isla de Margarita, Venezuela
Posts: 161
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Seems like a good place to post this once more.

The Actual Astronomy of 2012

http://www.infinitelymystical.com/es...astronomy.html

Hint: The alignment happened in 1998. Notice anything different since then? I do.
asteram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 07:14 AM   #45
Zeddo
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 694
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asteram View Post
Seems like a good place to post this once more.

The Actual Astronomy of 2012

http://www.infinitelymystical.com/es...astronomy.html

Hint: The alignment happened in 1998. Notice anything different since then? I do.
Great post thanks Asteram.
Zeddo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2009, 08:02 PM   #46
truthseeker
Avalon Senior Member
 
truthseeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Near Halifax, W. Yorks, England
Posts: 26
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Hi folks,

I’m back from Wales. Had a great holiday (thank you Burgundia for wishing us well on our hols). Had a lot of rain, but also plenty of sunshine between.

All,

It is only necessary to read one of the three lengthy comments that I posted back in 2008 to get the gist of the perspective on 2012 that I find most accurate. The three comments are, to a large extent, copies, each with additional material relating to the subject matter of the threads concerned. I also recommend a close scrutiny of John Major Jenkins’ website (http://alignment2012.com/), particularly his dialogue with Calleman and critique of same. See the following links: -

http://alignment2012.com/Calleman-debate.html
http://alignment2012.com/Exchange-in-2000.html
http://alignment2012.com/MayanCalendarBasics.htm
http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012-exchange.html
http://alignment2012.com/debate2001.html

Also take a look at his critique of Jose Arguelles’ Dreamspell theory, which also does not reflect the true long count of the Maya (see http://alignment2012.com/following.html.)


I know my Avalon posts and the dialogue between Jenkins’ and Calleman are all a bit long-winded, but if you really want to begin to understand 2012 and the Mayan long-count calendar, you do need to explore these critiques of some of the main players in the 2012 movement. Don’t accept my word for it. Do your own homework and research. There is so much rubbish out there on 2012 and the Mayan calendar. Lots of writers are cashing in on it. There is some very sloppy ‘research’ out there, which is presented as fact, when in truth much of it is wild speculation, misinformation, disinformation, strongly held belief/opinion, plane fantasy or any combination of the above.

Seashore,

Personally, I feel inclined to take Calleman’s (& thus Lungold’s) understanding on the Mayan Calendar with a pinch of salt. With regard to the statement that “the Cosmic Tree of Life at the center of our universe behind these quantum shifts was discovered by modern science only in 2003”, I have no knowledge of such a discovery. However, I suspect this is another of Calleman’s distortions.

Tone3Jaguar,

I would be really interested to here your take on Jenkins’ dialogue with Calleman and his critique of his perspective (see above links). It is a long read though. Jenkins has a very spiritual perspective on 2012 and the long-count calendar. However, to my mind, his is a much more grounded spirituality than that proclaimed by Calleman.

Asteram,

That is an excellent link (http://www.infinitelymystical.com/es...astronomy.html) on the true astronomy of 2012 and the galactic alignment. I recommend all of you read this piece by Thomas Razzeto.

Taadev,

With reference to the original audio/video you presented, here is the full unedited (almost two hours) version (http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/pl...20_44_37-08_00). This is certainly a mainstream academic (one of the more open-minded ones) perspective on the Mayan Calendar and 2012. It is definitely worth listening to the longer version to get a better perspective on the academic view. There is an equally long follow up audio/video, also hosted by Jan Irvin, where he interviews John Major Jenkins (see http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/pl...00_07_50-08_00). This, to my mind, represents a more balanced view on 2012 and the Mayan Calendar.

Look forward to some more responses from you guys.

Best Wishes,

Truthseeker (Andrew)
truthseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2009, 08:43 PM   #47
Seashore
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post

...Seashore,

Personally, I feel inclined to take Calleman’s (& thus Lungold’s) understanding on the Mayan Calendar with a pinch of salt. With regard to the statement that “the Cosmic Tree of Life at the center of our universe behind these quantum shifts was discovered by modern science only in 2003”, I have no knowledge of such a discovery. However, I suspect this is another of Calleman’s distortions...
Thank you, Andrew, and thank you for sharing your careful research with us!
Seashore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2012, doom, maya, myth, pyramids

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon