SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

T
I am glad some people like yourself have the skills to spot that circles are man made.

Thanks. Your efforts in educating the public on the truth of crop circles are largely responsible. I appreciate the honest work you are doing. Please keep it up. Please produce a DVD or two with your videos on them. And please do make another Crop Circle documentary that brings things us up to date on the scene as it is today.

Originally Posted by truthseekers

... This is how the information is controlled folks and it isnt a conspiracy by MI5 or the CIA... its the people who organise these conferences and their customers who want to control the flow of information so it spins the way they like it. Bear this in mind. It is a fact!

It's like scales dropping of your eyes when you realize what is actually going on isn't it? To realize that the disinformation effort is largely a symptom of the UFO/paranormal community ITSELF and not the work of some shadowy outside agency is disheartening isn't it? While it is a documented fact beyond all denial that government and military agencies have monitored, infiltrated, and controlled many UFO study groups since the early 50s, not all "disinformation" comes from them. Unscrupulous researchers, con-men, and well meaning but naive true believers have been doing a great job on their own.

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

I am happy to do an interview with anyone... who is Mr Ryan?

I was referring to Project Camelot's Bill Ryan. Since Project Camelot prides itself on controversial subjects an interview with you should be exactly what they are looking for ... one would think anyway. What about it Bill or Kerry?

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself.

Good job on that one Soulcrafter. I really think the interchange you had with that poster typifies the "true believer" syndrome. Nothing will persuade a person with true believer syndrome. Even a real crop circle making pilot explaining the phenomena of the 'suddenly appearing' circle with tremendous examples! Amazing and a bit scary isn't it? You just have to laugh, well 'cause crying looks so girlie!

[TRANCOSO]

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself.

if this...

One fine day an RAF jet flew over Stonehenge. It happened to be a favourite spot of the pilot, so he looked down & saw everything was normal.
45 minutes later, approaching from the opposite direction, the pilot noticed something had changed in the landscape.
To his astonishment he saw a huge - as in HUGE - crop formation had appeared, now known as the (first) Julia Circle.

I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but being the expert you pretend to be, you undoubtedly know exactly what I'm talking about.
Mind you, we have here a trained observer (sic), a RAF jetfighter pilot, a 45 minute time interval & a HUGE & complex formation, that - on paper - can only be drawn by a computer.

... is what you've read & you than come up with a bunch of random pictures, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Julia Circle at Stonehenge, or anything else I'm refering to, you are either totally self-absorbed, or you have an extremely short memory spam and immidiatly forget what you've read.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

[Soulcrafter]

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
In the future i'll ignore your posts and i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye

[TRANCOSO]

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
... i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye

Hopefully that will draw the attention of the moderators towards this thread.
I think that having a sincere opinion on a topic - crop circles, in this case - is something completely different as spreading disinfo & utter BS.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

[Jonah]

Well it's nice to see everyone playing nice today....

DIs info or not.... I'm pretty sure members such as yourselves should be able to understand that you should never believe what any one person tells you... That is why we have our own discernment.... this is a forum with people who have certain views/opinions..... it's up to you to decide what you want to believe...

[Céline]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

Hopefully that will draw the attention of the moderators towards this thread.
I think that having a sincere opinion on a topic - crop circles, in this case - is something completely different as spreading disinfo & utter BS.

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Distorting someones name...to reflect your own personal negative emotions ..is not a good thing...

Love... please.

[TRANCOSO]

Jonah, Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.
The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

(I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar. Anybody who wants to know what TRANCOSO's real name is - who I am - can find me at www.ikgeloofalles.nl - as I've already posted before in a seperate thread.)

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

if this...
... is what you've read & you than come up with a bunch of random pictures, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Julia Circle at Stonehenge, or anything else I'm refering to, you are either totally self-absorbed, or you have an extremely short memory spam and immidiatly forget what you've read.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Who wrote this... their facts are totally wrong. It wasnt a Royal Air Force jet it was a civilian private light aircraft which took off from Thruxton airfield. You see how things get twisted and exaggerated. Besides if it were a jet he would be flying so fast it would have been even more unlikely he would have seen it. As it happens this is exactly the story i feature in my youtube explaination of crop circles appearing aparently in 15 minutes, which doesnt happen. I have had 3 of my circles "appear" when they werent there earlier so say the witnesses.

The bottom line is that if loads of witnesses come forward to say circles appear out of the blue like this we are going to have to pay to do every formation and film ever one to prove 100% that these people are either nuts/lying/or didnt see the formation.

You may not know this but many people have come forward to say they saw formations appear in front of them. Its a new craze. However it is totally not true and there must be other reasons for why people are saying this. I know of one pilot for instance who has started saying he saw a circle appear after flying over a blank field because he is a sociopath and quite a nasty dangerous man (killed one guy, injured a few others - been prosecuted for this too). The best reason i think he is saying it now is because he illegally flies people over crop circles for profit, uninsured and breaking the commerical flying ban use of microlights! He wants the story to permiate the community so people want to talk to him and come fly with him and spend money in his unlicensed cafe. Its all about money... plain and simple. Why do people think that people are not beyond lies to get what they want. We dont live in a perfect world I am afraid to say.

Take for another example 2 people I investigated when I was a UFO hunter. They had faked UFO footage in a studio. I uncovered this by video analysis and got them to admit to it. However this didnt stop one major UFO conference organiser putting the one gentleman up on stage knowing the footage was faked. When I went COUGH COUGH he pulled him off future stage appearances... or so I thought. Six months down the line, he was back on stage again with the same organiser.

How do you battle rubbish like that. It is demoralising to see that people in position which you expect to be trustworthy and above reproach are really just on the lookout for a great sounding story. Screw the truth... its just about hype. Apply this to circles and the war that is waged against circlemakers and you have your answers! Its just about circle hype and hysteria... which is more the reason why I point out this RAF jet info. Once people start hyping up info and making stories bigger and bigger then things get out of control, which is exactly what the crop circle subject is. A bunch of hyped up liars like Doctors and Professors who faked their credentials to get listened to and wannabe believers who are prepared to do anything it takes to prove circlemakers are wrong. Go figure.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

Jonah, Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.
The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

(I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar. Anybody who wants to know what TRANCOSO's real name is - who I am - can find me at www.ikgeloofalles.nl - as I've already posted before in a seperate thread.)

Sorry, i just dont believe you. You are most probably part of the "lets lie to damn the ******* circlemakers" brigade. Sorry to be blunt but circles dont appear in broad daylight. Its just that simple.

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day. I cant wait to tell the circlemakers who created it that apparently they are all mentally ill and deluding themselves that they were out at night creating it!

Seriously though dude. This isnt funny hearing people saying this stuff.

Re: National geo and other documentaries. What you maybe dont realise is that journlists come along and they basically put their cards down on the table with researchers and tell them what they intend doing. This causes researchers to say "If your going to film or speak to circlemakers we wont give you an interview". Which is why now a lot of docu makers dont say who they are working with because researchers just pull tantrums and pull out. However journalists arent interested in b******t they want the inside story. So they speak to everyone, get the juicy angles and play one side off against the other for entertainment purposes. However they will usually come down more favourably on the side they know is telling the truth. So after speaing to both sides which side usually wins the truth argument??? Well circlemakers every time! The only time you see "circles cant be made by people" put forward in a docu is when the docu makers have a bias agenda or believers making those documentaries, orthey are codus made by crop circle lovers like Suzanne Taylor (grrr). National Geo arent in the business of siding with the loonies of the world... and the arguments given by researchers are easily washed away with demonstrations with circlemakers making circles.

One journalist this year gave us a list of things the researchers said we couldnt create. So we ticked everything off on their list by creating those effects in front of the cameras. No lengthy set ups either, we were being challenged to do it - so we did it with no questions asked, bosh bosh... theres your circles with those effects present. You see the difference is that we as circlemakers have factual things we can do and show. Researchers make claims. thats the difference. We actually go out and show what we can do. Thats fact. Journalists can see the difference. Now we cant win against people who want to make up wild stories that cannot be disproved but it just goes to show how far the believer community will go.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day.

That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Well it's nice to see everyone playing nice today....

DIs info or not.... I'm pretty sure members such as yourselves should be able to understand that you should never believe what any one person tells you... That is why we have our own discernment.... this is a forum with people who have certain views/opinions..... it's up to you to decide what you want to believe...

Indeed and if you watch my videos I have said we as circlemakers are nothing special, anyone can do what we do... and we invite people to try. Then and only then will people have the final answers for themselves. Dont just listen to my words and believe or disbelieve me, have a go and find out the truth.

Its very simple to create a crop circle. If you have researchers then turn up and come out with the normal "it cant be made by people" stuff, you have your answers. Then you will have a revelation about how the whole subject works. It will even teach you a bit about human nature and how this could **possibly** be applied to other areas of research and life in general.

I have always said crop circles is a great training ground for a keen paranormal researcher in order for them to to know a truth, then see that truth dissolved and see how others will not believe you now have the answers and carry on in blind ignorance of what is really going on. To experience that for ones self if truly shocking and liberating at the same time. I suggest people try it. It makes you a better researcher with a lot more discernment.

However I still maintain that crop circles made by people do attract real paranormal phenomena. So prepare yourself because when you learn this and try to tell people this, they really have a hard time with this info.

[Soulcrafter]

Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

Yes, we have seen the proof of that.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.

Blunt statements, maybe to you it is. And truth for others, no need to get personal for that reason.

The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

Have you actually watched the whole documentary or just the first 10 minutes?

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I'm pretty sure it's been explained/demonstrated many times but either people don't want to watch/listen or they just can't handle the truth.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

A littlle more detail would be welcome. Like what formation, date, location and what kind of crop.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

I'ts not mockery, it's common sense.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

That's not for you to judge, they have mods for this.

I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar

I'm not hiding either, actually i'm well known in the CC community on both sides. And i like to have some privacy on forums.

www.ikgeloofalles.nl

Translates into www.i believe everything.nl

That's obvious.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

Well every year I say to researchers "tell us which ones are man made then" and they never give us a comprehesive list. They fail to do so.

This is odd behaviour because most researchers will boldly claim they know which circles are man made and can clearly tell... so why not say then. This is always fishy. Try asking circles researchers this question and see how they squirm. Its quite an interesting reaction usually which may end up with them becoming very quickly paranoid and wanting to know why you want to know and who are you working with and do you know circlemakers and quite often gets the "I AM NOT BEING TESTED BY YOU" reaction.

I dont make this stuff up by the way. Try it... see where it gets you. Perfectly reasonable and innocent question and it really does peel back the skin to reveal the researcher underneath.

Note to others reading:
I will ask people keep their emotions down as this is a very emotional subject and quickly gets out of hand. I have seen peoples reactions to me escelate into everything up to actual physical violence so I know how heated the debate can be but I am asking for some calm if we are to discuss these things. Please by all means try and pull down what I am saying but do it with rational points and facts rather than feelings and un-backed statements. If you feel I have not backed up what i am saying please feel fre and I will go into more detail. This is probably the only good way forward with this.

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

.

Red Card, your pointing it the wrong way.

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science? All this prove it stuff reminds me or myself having a row with my sister.. " Prove it?" we would shout at each other... Im not 7 anymore.. Thanks very much. If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none. Thanks kindly.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by chelmostef

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science?

Is the mainstream media known for spreading the truth?

Where is the excepted science? Can you explain further?

Thanks in advance.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by chelmostef

If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none.

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles
How to work out a crop circle is man made
The science and "experts" exposed
Crop Circles being made

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles
How to work out a crop circle is man made
The science and "experts" exposed
Crop Circles being made

Are you saying all crop circles are man made?

[truthseekers]

There arent any I see that dont look like they couldnt be made by people. Theres nothing so complicated that it would be too hard.. so basically yes. However I can verify i know most of the UK circlemakers and do not know people from abroad... apart from a few who I have infrequent contact with. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop. I dont know who is doingh what overseas.

[371]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

There arent any I see that dont look like they couldnt be made by people. Theres nothing so complicated that it would be too hard.. so basically yes. However I can verify i know most of the UK circlemakers and do not know people from abroad... apart from a few who I have infrequent contact with. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop. I dont know who is doingh what overseas.

Oh?



You sir, are full of it.

I know this for FACT.... "it's just part of being in the loop"

[Soulcrafter]

Yawn, here are the oneliners again...nite all !

[371]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop..

Who made this?




Or this?




Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

[chelmostef]

Hummm!

If Mathew Williams is speeking the truth.

1, Do the crop circle makers want to be acknowledged for the work they are producing, are they annoyed that a crop circle whistle blower has come out with the truth?

2, If what you say is true then there will be some pretty p****d of farmers who can start looking on the ground for the culpits?

3, The Dr's will also be annoyed for exposing them as frauds.

4, What part does the govenment have to play in all this? Are they helping to spread the disinformtion or supressing it? ( I mean dis-information in the context being that crop circles are man made?)

[chelmostef]

Size of a euro pallet: 1200mm by 800mm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet

The most common one I would say.

[chelmostef]

Hasn't the wheat stopped growing when these circles are made?