Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...

[pilot]

Sanat,

The second part of your post is something that I agree with and am not having trouble conceptualizing in the least.

Energy

Vibration

These are the things that earthbowl wanted elaborated on...you say they are "related" Endjoy is holding forth about the difference between energy and SI.

I am of the opinion that vibration is energy of varying degrees.

To the point, if James says vibration and concludes that SI is without energy, you can see that this might be rather confusing...and I thought the whole point was to simplify this journey within to the silence.

It's beginning to look a lot like orthodoxy.

[ENdJOY]

Do you have a vested interest in the promotion of the WMM that is above and beyond simple enthusiasm for the message? If the answer is "no", why is it that you advocate it with such dedication and energy?

Thank you for asking, and the answer is YES...emphatically and enthusiastically!

as the WMMs reveal...First Source is a collective, and a fragment of it is placed within every human... for the purpose of expanding and enhancing ITs consciousness, and "kingdom". First Source, in its personified form as "God", evolves... and by fragmenting itself, is able to experience life, through-out the Universe of Universes, in an individuate form, which allows for unique and revealing experiences.

First Source desires Wholeness above all things now that it has reached the apex of its evolutionary cycle, that requires that all its "pieces" are brought together again...to begin collectively creating and individually exploring another universe as Its representative of Unconditional Love.

as I stated...each of us contain a piece of FS...therefore, it is in my best interest to promote the WMMs, that reveal who we are, why we are here and what our collective goal is...and which also provides tools to self create ME and YOU, back into a Sovereign Integral - conscious of "the Plan".

I tried it and it works... I share it because we need YOU to be WHOLE

we are all in various stages of gaining this awareness...it is not a matter of being left behind ... and there is no way that it can fail... this is why Anu, no longer has power over us...because a critical mass has been obtained and it is completely out of his control...The Unification Forces Plan reveals that we are all equals... Anu has no "extra" influence in the new dimension we are collectively creating...as FS evolves.

[pilot]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Thank you for asking, and the answer is YES...emphatically and enthusiastically!

as the WMMs reveal...First Source is a collective, and a fragment of it is placed within every human... for the purpose of expanding and enhancing ITs consciousness, and "kingdom". First Source, in its personified form as "God", evolves... and by fragmenting itself, is able to experience life, through-out the Universe of Universes, in an individuate form, which allows for unique and revealing experiences.

First Source desires Wholeness above all things now that it has reached the apex of its evolutionary cycle, that requires that all its "pieces" are brought together again...to begin creation and exploration of another universe.

as I stated...each of us contain a piece of FS...therefore, it is in my best interest to promote the WMMs, that reveal who we are, why we are here and what our collective goal is...and which also provides tools to self create ME and YOU, back into a Sovereign Integral - conscious of "the Plan".

I tried it and it works... I share it because we need YOU to be WHOLE

we are all in various stages of gaining this awareness...it is not a matter of being left behind ... and there is no way that it can fail... this is why Anu, no longer has power over us...because a critical mass has been obtained and it is completely out of his control...The Unification Forces Plan reveals that we are all equals... Anu has no "extra" influence in the new dimension we are collectively creating...as FS evolves.

Great news.
Consider me aboard the train to wholeness.

[Gnosis5]

What you are describing sounds like something I might do if I were such a First Source -- pulsations of expanding and contracting.

So, I take it that First Source is not acting out compulsively in anything that it is or is not. I have the feeling that I was once that way, "in the beginning" so to speak. My question is how did I develop my first compulsion?

cheers!
gnosis

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Thank you for asking, and the answer is YES...emphatically and enthusiastically!

as the WMMs reveal...First Source is a collective, and a fragment of it is placed within every human... for the purpose of expanding and enhancing ITs consciousness, and "kingdom". First Source, in its personified form as "God", evolves... and by fragmenting itself, is able to experience life, through-out the Universe of Universes, in an individuate form, which allows for unique and revealing experiences.

First Source desires Wholeness above all things now that it has reached the apex of its evolutionary cycle, that requires that all its "pieces" are brought together again...to begin collectively creating and individually exploring another universe as Its representative of Unconditional Love.

as I stated...each of us contain a piece of FS...therefore, it is in my best interest to promote the WMMs, that reveal who we are, why we are here and what our collective goal is...and which also provides tools to self create ME and YOU, back into a Sovereign Integral - conscious of "the Plan".

I tried it and it works... I share it because we need YOU to be WHOLE

we are all in various stages of gaining this awareness...it is not a matter of being left behind ... and there is no way that it can fail... this is why Anu, no longer has power over us...because a critical mass has been obtained and it is completely out of his control...The Unification Forces Plan reveals that we are all equals... Anu has no "extra" influence in the new dimension we are collectively creating...as FS evolves.

[EarthBowl]

Thanks for your description. But I was not clear in the question.
I should have included a quote where vibration was used in the interview. I also know 'words' are part of the HMS system as James said- but until we can learn a newer style ( telepathy/ or maybe vibrational communication its all we have.
>>>>off topic. Can you imagine the clarity we could have if we KNEW what each other was saying/ asking/ thinking! So much of the division is just misunderstanding.<<<<<
It wasnt only in regards to the SI. Could what we think of energy be seen as in a sense a 'material' vibration??? I had always- lumped energy- vibration together. It's another example of the HMS thinking i guess.
I was wondering if in a scientific view what the difference was... and also in a metaphysical view.

[EarthBowl]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

EarthBowl, are you asking what the difference between Energy and SI is?


Consciousness was before energy...consciousness created energy to penetrate and activate All that IS manifested ... First Source consciousness travels on a specifc energy "stream" created by collectively harmonizing the "tone of equality"... the SI is activated by this energy once it is transformed.


at least this is my personal unique understanding, of the "difference", that I am sharing in a hope that it helps in your own understanding.

Great explanation. Yes I understand that. "Before there was energy there was the SI. IT's not of energy, it does not require energy, it is not existent because of energy."
What is vibration?

[Kelphi]

I think he is a master of ambiguity and circular reasoning whose words orchestrate a powerful suggestiveness to a wide variety of preconceived thought.

I suspect he works in concert with demons and their doctrines. Like I have said many times before they are a dead giveaway when they undermine and downplay Jesus Christ and His biblical truths.

It is eminent and paramount for all false teachers, and spirits and every religion on earth to dismantle and suppress the powerful truths of Jesus Christ. Thats how you know them. They all have this in common. Talk about control....

With Love,

Kelphi

[ENdJOY]

Originally Posted by Kelphi

I think he is a master of ambiguity and circular reasoning whose words orchestrate a powerful suggestiveness to a wide variety of preconceived thought.

I suspect he works in concert with demons and their doctrines. Like I have said many times before they are a dead giveaway when they undermine and downplay Jesus Christ and His biblical truths.

It is eminent and paramount for all false teachers, and spirits and every religion on earth to dismantle and suppress the powerful truths of Jesus Christ. Thats how you know them. They all have this in common. Talk about control....

With Love,

Kelphi

Kelphi, I am wondering seriously, if you actually read the interview, or if you comment is based upon what you think the Wingmakers' materials are about, without haveing investigated them.

I say this because Jesus is very much a part of the WM's materials, one might understand that this IS the "second coming" of Jesus...since James mentions in this interview that the 2nd phase has begun.

Question 17 -- Who was Jesus Christ in relation to the WingMakers?

For those of you who will read these words, and are steeped in Christianity, forgive the manner of my response. I am not a man who communicates delicately when speaking my truth.

Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.

Jesus presently serves a leadership role in the teaching organization of which I spoke of earlier, which is made up of authentic spiritual leaders of earth. He is very much aware of both the WingMakers and Lyricus. An interesting footnote: While the religious organizations compete for human membership, those teachers who are responsible for the religions' origin operate in collaboration and cooperation beneath the same, bold banner: human evolution. Those teachers who have translated from the physical to the interdimensional realms remain powerful teachers of humanity. They shift their focus from individualistic missions to collaborative missions, and in this spirit of collaboration, become increasingly powerful as change agents for the human condition. Jesus, in particular, operates as a managing director of the teaching organization, and in this role, interfaces with Lyricus on planning and analysis of the Grand Portal.

There is a common understanding among the teaching core that the confluence of science, art, and religion is inevitable, and it will culminate in the scientific discovery of the human soul, and more specifically, how the human soul is designed. Much like the physical body has a human genome, the spiritual body, or Wholeness Navigator, has a spiritual genome. And this genome is far more important to understand than the human because it is the causal element, while the human genome is the receptor.

There are six components to this effort that are coordinated:

1. Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system

2. Earth teachers (non-physical) prepare the species for acceptance of the Grand Portal

3. Earth teachers (physical) discover the way to the Grand Portal via the Tributary Zones

4. Earth teachers (physical) disseminate and preserve the knowledge of the Grand Portal

5. Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral Network

6. Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe

Jesus' role is of high importance in stage two, and in approximately eighty years, in stage five. He essentially leads this process with the collaborative assistance of the entire teaching organization of ascended (non-physical) teachers.

[Ashatav]

Wow, all are therms of the Urantia book.


deagle say that book are desinformation mised with semi-truths by the way.


My opinion is that the new world order new religion will be a mix of this urantia/wingmakers desinfo and the teosophic new age desinfo, mixing both streams of desinfo because is totally hegelian (problem -reaction -solution) what they are Allways do.

Like the capitalism - comunism to make the economic system they allways wanted who is something in middle and the "need" of the people will be the priority.

The evil part that is you don't have a fixed private propiety, an example:

In southafrica if you have a house and you go to vacations leaving the house alone and when you return the house is Occupied you Cannot kick the robbers out because they have the "need" for the house.

And that's is Today.

Read the rerum novarum haha evilness, and that enciclic is like from the 19th century, they allways have planned this thing.

And for the creators of the wingmakers and the urantia book that's ideas are really easy to make, the inteligence of the interdimentional beings are very hight, but inteligence without wisdom is Stupidity, like +1*-1=-1.

Cheers

[Sanat]

Originally Posted by pilot

Sanat,

The second part of your post is something that I agree with and am not having trouble conceptualizing in the least.

Energy

Vibration

These are the things that earthbowl wanted elaborated on...you say they are "related" Endjoy is holding forth about the difference between energy and SI.

I am of the opinion that vibration is energy of varying degrees.

To the point, if James says vibration and concludes that SI is without energy, you can see that this might be rather confusing...and I thought the whole point was to simplify this journey within to the silence.

It's beginning to look a lot like orthodoxy.

Again my response is partly to you and partly general:

Perhaps you should find the original quote where he talks about "vibration" connected with SI. I cannot find it at least. Here is the other quote:

In the dimensions of the Sovereign Integral there is no energy. There is no fluctuation of energy. There is no yin-yang of energy. Energy is a concept of the mind. So those who spend endless hours working with energy, where has it taken you?

Energy exists in the HMS. It is real in the physical world. It is indisputably a part of the human instrument, and yet, the Sovereign Integral is constant, aware, awake, observant, alive, infinite, and, as odd as it may seem, it is not energy. It is not of energy. It does not require energy. It is not existent because of energy. Before there was energy there was the Sovereign Integral. Before there was a Human Mind System, there was the Sovereign Integral.

Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I am." Everything in Creation is of energy/matter vibrating (as you say). But science tells us that matter/energy on the quantum level is mostly pure emptiness. There is 99.9% emptiness that runs through everything. Vibrating Energy/matter pops in and out of this emptiness at an extremly fast rate. Thus, the universe/illusion "dies" and is "reborn" all the time at such a fast speed that motion seems fluid to us (much like the images on a tv screen). This emptiness is the mystery Source of All-that-is. It is constant, aware, alive and infinite. The many layers of HMS is covering up our conscious Identity with this Aware Emptiness (Source or SI).

A human BE-ing should die and be reborn afresh many many times each second just like the Universe itself (this is actually the case but cannot be percieved directly as long as the HMS is in the way). And thus live in the peak of the eternal Presence/Now. But the accumulated mind-prison (HMS) is too heavy with unprocessed (unforgiven) past, which again to a certain degree "determines" our future (karma), and thus makes us worry about that. The mind (HMS) is trapped in the past/future and constantly "juggling" between past/future to keep things in a sort of balance. The Sovereign Integral is where the mind cannot be; in the eternal Present. The quantum breath method can give us short "gamma glimpses" of the Aware Emptiness (Source/SI) which can be said to exist between (but also before as it is primary) "thoughts" (or HMS matter/energy/content). There is Oneness only in the pure quantum emptiness which runs through all things (everything else is an illusion of separation).

Since Source "wants us to Awake" it will "meet us halfway" so to speak. We need to be willing to do the work on ourselves (forgive and let go of all past), and Source will do its part ("God helps he who helps himself"). Getting these "gamma glimpses" of SI is crucial for moving in the right direction, and for the motivation to do so. A person that has experienced such a glimpse (even if he/she is illiterate) knows more than a person that has read all the books in the world. He/she is also richer than any Rockefeller. All info is distorted because it cannot capture the truth of SI. Art/poetry comes closest and "makes a bridge" as he says. But emptiness cannot be captured by form, although form can be captured by emptiness. It is that simple.

Love,

Sanat

[milk and honey]

I'll put it back when i've edited it

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

dear Milk and Honey

you may BELIEVE anything you will... but it does not make it truth...

Of course. I wasn't only asserting my beliefs.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

if you have read the interview, you have read, that the "portal" was just (first) opened to the multi dimensions in 1998 and that with very few exceptions, those who BELIEVED they were traveling to other worlds were decieved by realities within realities...of the mind.

You believe that a "portal" was first opened in 1998 (one that presumably effects the integrity of channelled messages) only because James stated it as a fact. But it's not true. The only "portal" of any personal significance is within you and it always has been. It is your spiritual-Self. It has always been accessable to your soul. Jesus' main message ~ 2000 years ago was to remind everyone of that inner reality because we had forgotten it.

He said, "The kingdom of heaven (your spiritual- Self) is within you."

The individual is a multi-dimensionl being in a multi-dimensional universe. These dimensions have never been closed to us except by our own failure to maintain our personal attunement with higher octaves. Any suggestion by James that approximately 1998 years after Jesus confirmed our inner accessability to higher dimensions, that a "portal" has recently "opened for the first time" is simply untrue.

It betrays, at least, his misunderstanding of Jesus main message ~2000 years ago.

You did suggest that, with few exceptions, most people entertain mental illusions rather than real spiritual communion. I agree. It's true in daily life and true with attempts at channelling / translating entities beyond the mundane. That's what i was indicating about the WMM. Some translators / channelllors open themselves to lower-astral entities masquarading as true spiritual adepts. They don't have the discenment to know the difference. Others knowingly weave their own construct from the fabric of plaigerised and misunderstood sources of spiritual truth.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

the discerning factor here would be the intent of the person "channeling" or "traveling" to other "worlds"... if it was an act in service to self, or an in the case of the Wingmakers, in service to the species.

James, has revealed this to us, in service to the species, to keep those seeking self aggrandizement from using our trusting nature to fool us, and to perpetuate programs of the HMS.

Most people know the metaphysical market place is full of hucksters anyway, just not the ones that appeal to them.

'Intent' is not the only discerning factor when appraising channelled / translated information. Many people intend goodwill as they help others and they do it according to their evolution and abilities. But the intent to serve others does not automatically qualify someone as a clear channel. If only life was so simple.

Unfortunately, well intentioned people are decieved with monotonous regularity because there are often conflicting subconscious motivations which the person has not been willing to face. The right intent is the right trajectory to gaining clarity of consciousness. But it doesn't automatically qualify one as having that clarity. Really, the only qualification is to have a level of conscious realisation of inner-Spirit. Even then, there is the necessity to "try the spirits". ie, Judge them by vibration and the content of their message.

The vast majority of channellors / translators fail that test because they do not know themselves as well as they think. Self- deception allows them to be decieved by astral imposters.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Examine you own emotional responses and determine if they express your true identity, or if they are programed responses that support the HMS... the true emotions of an energized and activated heart will be expressed as Appreciation, Compassion, Forgiveness, Humility, Understanding and Valor... and not judgments, anger, greed, hatred or rejection.

It is easy to agree that we should examine ourselves and i do. But the WMM is worthy of examination too and is best approached with the discernment of the heart. The spiritual heart is my true identity. The heart separates the real from the unreal. That means judging by vibration, intent and content. If the WMM fails that test in critical respects then it necessitates my rejecting it. That doesn't make me an angry or hateful person for explaining why. If the material is public then let me speak publically too.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

how does that make YOU feel?

I feel well. I've been at peace in my posting here and i'm enjoying it very much.

[giovonni]

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

[Frank Samuel]

Many events in history has been distorted, especially our sets of believes. That why it is shocking to always find another layer of the so called truth.
One thing in the interview made a lot of sense we are all connected, and the awakening process is individualistic. When you are free you no longer fear the prison which we have created for ourselves. The truth we seek is not found in any book is within you. Is easy to see how we all disagree all coming from different backgrounds and sets of believes,ideas and perspectives. I for one love to challenge my sets of believes , rattle my tree sort of speak. My advice is use what resonates with you throw the rest in the garbage. The Annunaki explanation is going to the garbage as far as I am concerned, althought he brings out the concept of a God of duality, good and evil. Few absolutes from the viewpoint of this explanation then we ourselves must evolve beyond the level of annuThe spanish meaning of the word Annu more or less sums up his emphatic belief in this being. In all fairness to the Wing Makers web site many links have gotten inspiration from these works, and most are well thought of and revelant . I learn quite a lot form the web links posted on these sites, for example. http://www.soulconnection.net/ http://edwardlong.com/
If you are searching for truth just keep searching and enjoy your journey.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Sanat

His (James') "new/fresh" concepts and words serve this purpose also, and so does his "denial" that any known "figure" ever realized the true Self/Oneness. His whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with. Only by letting go of all such identifications can one get a taste of real Oneness which he calls the "Sovereign Integral". I really enjoyed the freshness of this interview as one of the better things Camelot has done lately.

The truths that "James" includes in his work are taken from the spiritual teachings of the past. He has obviously read them and the countless commentaries on them. These concepts of truth which he simply re-packages with a few clinical terms of his own are not new or fresh. For thousands of years the spiritual adepts have been teaching that the individual soul (the intelligent fragment in matter of the spiritual- Self) is trapped in the dualistic polarities of the outer-ego (the carnal mind) and that this keeps souls trapped in the mass consciousness (the world) and ever mindless of the higher- Self.

Does that sound familiar? Just transcribe it with all "James" new words, and his own mis-representations and there it is, 'shiny new' "Wingmakers" to help us go "where no man has gone before."

The adepts have known Oneness intimately and taught the Way for ages:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of Spirit personified) is within you".

"Seek and you will find (your real-Self within)" ...... "Knock and the (inner) door shall be opened (to conscious awareness)" --- Jesus the Christ.

Guatama also taught us to seek the light of Self- knowledge within. He called it Buddha Mind. The Buddha Self must 'cleanse' the dualistic lower-ego from the 'mental poisons' (false concepts) which keep the soul ignorant and stuck in 'worldliness' (the mass consciousness).

Does that sound familiar?

In Krishna's teachings, the same concepts appear .... "Krishna (the teacher) was the higher- Mind and Arjuna (the student) was the soul in matter. Again, the concept that the soul can awaken to spirit. See Krishna (the higher- Self) riding in his carriage with Arjuna. Krishna has a steady hand on the reigns of 4 horses (the 4 bodies of man ) all acting under the direction and superior intelligence of Krishna (the higher- Self).

In this scene the physical and subtle bodies (the 4 horses) have become obedient servants to the higher-Self because the dualistic egoic impulses have been inactivated and stilled. The soul - arjuna - is freed from the pull of the senses and the lower- ego (wild horses) and realises the joy of Oneness with Krishna who steers the horses with consummate ease. The adepts have all delivered the same basic message... Go within and realise the "kingdom", the "Buddha" and "Krishna-consciousness". Different words for the higher-Self..... same solution to the human condition.

Does that sound familiar too?

It should if you've been reading the WMM. But James prefers to play semantic games with the terms 'God, Spirit, Soul, atma' etc which the historically identifiable adepts used in their spiritual teachings. He believes that those concepts originated not in the higher- Mind of the adepts but in what he calls the "Human Mind System". Consequently, he believes they're just another historical deception.

But They're not. Everything James has written about the 'Sovereign Integral' is a carbon copy of the Spiritual-Self / God-consciousness / Buddha-Mind / Krishna- consciousness / Christ- consciousness /Atma / God / Spirit etc etc etc as taught by the historical adepts. Every one of those terms signify the HIGHER- SELF (ie the "brand new" "Sovereign Integral") and like James, the adepts have all taught that IT IS WITHIN OURSELVES NOT SEPARATE OR OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES as James seems to think they did. His failure to discern that, puts him at the level of understanding of a christan sunday school teacher. The other alternative is that he has constructed that straw man only to demolish it. But why?

Because it demolishes virtually every other source of spiritual information which we are likely ever to come across. His denials and dismissals are a weapon of mass destruction designed to set James personally and the WMM apart from virtually everything else in the field of spirituality and metaphysics. Pretty ambitious eh? Everything must be demolished including the US Constitution. The NWO is after all an inevitable step on the path to freedom is it not?

James seems just as confused about ascension, averring that somehow ascension was taught by the adepts as a belief - again the product of the "HMS" - in an external union with an external God source. They never taught that at all, as i've shown.

Jesus ascended. But James misrepresents the concept of ascension. Jesus' soul united with the Christ-consciousness and ascended to his highest Self - the I AM. (the 'Father'). He did not go to an external place. His soul rose to permanent union with his spiritual- Self. He ascended to a 'place' in consciousness.

I realise that James doesn't believe in the version of ascension which he dismisses but he must believe that the adepts share a similar delusion with those modern folk who believe ascension is something that will happen to them as a result of a wave of energy in 2012.

Somehow, after all his misunderstandings James + the WM acknowledge Jesus as a high Spiritual Helper of humanity. Many of the 'alien saviors' like to say that they share the stage with Jesus but i believe the pretense is purely for convenience to cast their nets as wide as possible. Urantia, Nesara, Galactic Federation, semjase group, and many others include him in their line-up and 'ride to earth' on his coat tails. One iron in the fire is Jesus' return to Eath don't forget. The possibilities are obvious.

We can rationalise James' denial of the enlightened adepts' teachings any way we please, yet that is where he got most of his own schpiel. If Jesus, Guatama and others had not realised Oneness with the true- Self they simply could not have concieved, nor expressed so elegantly, the concepts which reveal their self-mastery. All James has done is repackage them and their work without due acknowledgement and then proceeded to invalidate their concepts as merely an ignorant expression of the HMS.

There are several possible reasons why James' 'whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with" but only some are valid. One is "in the moment" to let go of false concepts that keep the soul's attention focussed in the lower- ego, so that one can experience direct awareness of the spiritual-Self. Another is "in the moment" to let go of all concepts of the outer-mind to experience that union with the higher-Self. Yet another reason "James" may be "taking things away that people identify with" is so that he can summarily dismiss the true adepts and their teachings and substitute his own agenda - and those who back him - in their place. That's a lot different to sharing the stage with them and representing their teachings truthfully.

So i wouldn't rush to impute a pure motive to James' WMM when so many obvious problems are evident.

My reading of "james" is that he/she is part of a sophisticated chorus of psy-operatives who are trying to sever this generation from the past. It is also evident to me, from other comments he makes and the stories he invents, that he is part of the campaign to usher in Bush's New World Order. There's enough saccharine there to coat the tonsils of the chorus but it's obvious to me who they are and how they operate. James is just one of the ushers in the NWO theatre. That's his contribution.... fascinating theatre.

[Sanat]

milk and honey,

I do not disagree with your points. Who knows anyones true motives but themselves. But if his effort is to take away things that people identify with from the past, to "get them into the Now", then I see nothing wrong with that at all. It's a honorable effort in my opinion. But again, who am I to judge his efforts. That is simply just how I choose to percieve the interview until it is "proven otherwise". It's not hard to see that what he talks about has been talked about in the past. Truth is the same always, but as you say; it can only be realized in the Now, by letting go of the past.

Love and gratitude,

Sanat

[Myplanet2]

rejecting something on the basis of whether it contradicts some "bought into" data set is equally as silly as accepting something because it agrees with some "bought into" data set.

My own filters flash on when I hear things like "you'll recognize it as false when it contradicts what I've said. (paraphrase of quotes purported to be from Jesus)

I can picture some scanning a thread or post with a key word search on "Jesus" to see if "he's" contradicted, and if so, then getting to work disgorging the HMS (and GSSC) borne justifications.

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

[Sanat]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

Indeed, I agree. If all is indeed One, then there really is no need to oppose anything, as all "opposition" is based on duality perspective. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. From clarity one can see truth in everything that exists. From duality one sees only conflict between "this" and "that".

Love,

Sanat

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

rejecting something on the basis of whether it contradicts some "bought into" data set is equally as silly as accepting something because it agrees with some "bought into" data set.

I know. Thats what i pointed out that the WMM material is doing with older concepts/words. Why?

Originally Posted by Myplanet

My own filters flash on when I hear things like "you'll recognize it as false when it contradicts what I've said. (paraphrase of quotes purported to be from Jesus)

I can picture some scanning a thread or post with a key word search on "Jesus" to see if "he's" contradicted, and if so, then getting to work disgorging the HMS (and GSSC) borne justifications.

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

That's what i was asking.

What is at the root of the attempts of the WMM to discredit worthy concepts?

For my part, i pointed out an esoteric layer of what the older texts were revealing then compared and contrasted it with the WMM. James did a lot of comparing and contrasting himself in the interview. I outlined the demolition job that is evident to me in the WMM and explained what i see as the subtext underneath that.

That doesn't make me a 'HMS' "disgorger" or a fundamentalist christian for noticing what's there and writing it down on a discussion forum. If you're referring to me that is.

[micjer]

Originally Posted by giovonni

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

Many events in history has been distorted, especially our sets of believes. That why it is shocking to always find another layer of the so called truth.
One thing in the interview made a lot of sense we are all connected, and the awakening process is individualistic. When you are free you no longer fear the prison which we have created for ourselves. The truth we seek is not found in any book is within you.

I agree and I agree.

It is amazing how we have all done our research and ended up here at the top of the pyramid of information and we are splitting hairs on the final pieces of the puzzle. I believe that the answers do reside within and we need to follow our own individual feelings. No one book or prophet knows all of the answers, it is up to us to find our way through the maze.

I don`t feel that the wingmakers` info discredits Jesus in anyway only it says his message has been distorted. If this was the new world religion would it not try to discredit him and introduce a new messiah with all of the answers, to follow!

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

The truths that "James" includes in his work are taken from the spiritual teachings of the past. He has obviously read them and the countless commentaries on them. These concepts of truth which he simply re-packages with a few clinical terms of his own are not new or fresh. For thousands of years the spiritual adepts have been teaching that the individual soul (the intelligent fragment in matter of the spiritual- Self) is trapped in the dualistic polarities of the outer-ego (the carnal mind) and that this keeps souls trapped in the mass consciousness (the world) and ever mindless of the higher- Self.

Does that sound familiar? Just transcribe it with all "James" new words, and his own mis-representations and there it is, 'shiny new' "Wingmakers" to help us go "where no man has gone before."

The adepts have known Oneness intimately and taught the Way for ages:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of Spirit personified) is within you".

"Seek and you will find (your real-Self within)" ...... "Knock and the (inner) door shall be opened (to conscious awareness)" --- Jesus the Christ.

Guatama also taught us to seek the light of Self- knowledge within. He called it Buddha Mind. The Buddha Self must 'cleanse' the dualistic lower-ego from the 'mental poisons' (false concepts) which keep the soul ignorant and stuck in 'worldliness' (the mass consciousness).

Does that sound familiar?

In Krishna's teachings, the same concepts appear .... "Krishna (the teacher) was the higher- Mind and Arjuna (the student) was the soul in matter. Again, the concept that the soul can awaken to spirit. See Krishna (the higher- Self) riding in his carriage with Arjuna. Krishna has a steady hand on the reigns of 4 horses (the 4 bodies of man ) all acting under the direction and superior intelligence of Krishna (the higher- Self).

In this scene the physical and subtle bodies (the 4 horses) have become obedient servants to the higher-Self because the dualistic egoic impulses have been inactivated and stilled. The soul - arjuna - is freed from the pull of the senses and the lower- ego (wild horses) and realises the joy of Oneness with Krishna who steers the horses with consummate ease. The adepts have all delivered the same basic message... Go within and realise the "kingdom", the "Buddha" and "Krishna-consciousness". Different words for the higher-Self..... same solution to the human condition.

Does that sound familiar too?

It should if you've been reading the WMM. But James prefers to play semantic games with the terms 'God, Spirit, Soul, atma' etc which the historically identifiable adepts used in their spiritual teachings. He believes that those concepts originated not in the higher- Mind of the adepts but in what he calls the "Human Mind System". Consequently, he believes they're just another historical deception.

But They're not. Everything James has written about the 'Sovereign Integral' is a carbon copy of the Spiritual-Self / God-consciousness / Buddha-Mind / Krishna- consciousness / Christ- consciousness /Atma / God / Spirit etc etc etc as taught by the historical adepts. Every one of those terms signify the HIGHER- SELF (ie the "brand new" "Sovereign Integral") and like James, the adepts have all taught that IT IS WITHIN OURSELVES NOT SEPARATE OR OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES as James seems to think they did. His failure to discern that, puts him at the level of understanding of a christan sunday school teacher. The other alternative is that he has constructed that straw man only to demolish it. But why?

Because it demolishes virtually every other source of spiritual information which we are likely ever to come across. His denials and dismissals are a weapon of mass destruction designed to set James personally and the WMM apart from virtually everything else in the field of spirituality and metaphysics. Pretty ambitious eh? Everything must be demolished including the US Constitution. The NWO is after all an inevitable step on the path to freedom is it not?

James seems just as confused about ascension, averring that somehow ascension was taught by the adepts as a belief - again the product of the "HMS" - in an external union with an external God source. They never taught that at all, as i've shown.

Jesus ascended. But James misrepresents the concept of ascension. Jesus' soul united with the Christ-consciousness and ascended to his highest Self - the I AM. (the 'Father'). He did not go to an external place. His soul rose to permanent union with his spiritual- Self. He ascended to a 'place' in consciousness.

I realise that James doesn't believe in the version of ascension which he dismisses but he must believe that the adepts share a similar delusion with those modern folk who believe ascension is something that will happen to them as a result of a wave of energy in 2012.

Somehow, after all his misunderstandings James + the WM acknowledge Jesus as a high Spiritual Helper of humanity. Many of the 'alien saviors' like to say that they share the stage with Jesus but i believe the pretense is purely for convenience to cast their nets as wide as possible. Urantia, Nesara, Galactic Federation, semjase group, and many others include him in their line-up and 'ride to earth' on his coat tails. One iron in the fire is Jesus' return to Eath don't forget. The possibilities are obvious.

We can rationalise James' denial of the enlightened adepts' teachings any way we please, yet that is where he got most of his own schpiel. If Jesus, Guatama and others had not realised Oneness with the true- Self they simply could not have concieved, nor expressed so elegantly, the concepts which reveal their self-mastery. All James has done is repackage them and their work without due acknowledgement and then proceeded to invalidate their concepts as merely an ignorant expression of the HMS.

There are several possible reasons why James' 'whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with" but only some are valid. One is "in the moment" to let go of false concepts that keep the soul's attention focussed in the lower- ego, so that one can experience direct awareness of the spiritual-Self. Another is "in the moment" to let go of all concepts of the outer-mind to experience that union with the higher-Self. Yet another reason "James" may be "taking things away that people identify with" is so that he can summarily dismiss the true adepts and their teachings and substitute his own agenda - and those who back him - in their place. That's a lot different to sharing the stage with them and representing their teachings truthfully.

So i wouldn't rush to impute a pure motive to James' WMM when so many obvious problems are evident.

My reading of "james" is that he/she is part of a sophisticated chorus of psy-operatives who are trying to sever this generation from the past. It is also evident to me, from other comments he makes and the stories he invents, that he is part of the campaign to usher in Bush's New World Order. There's enough saccharine there to coat the tonsils of the chorus but it's obvious to me who they are and how they operate. James is just one of the ushers in the NWO theatre. That's his contribution.... fascinating theatre.

Agree, it have to many flaws.



Why believe the first thing who comes from NOWHERE with our eyes closed because it smells nice???


The people believes anything these days who seems aceptable.



Thank you theosophy!



(hahaha in this forum if a person don't believe totally odd things is a strange, me included!)


Cheers!

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by micjer

I don`t feel that the wingmakers` info discredits Jesus in anyway only it says his message has been distorted. If this was the new world religion would it not try to discredit him and introduce a new messiah with all of the answers, to follow!

The WMM discredits Jesus and every spiritual teacher by distorting the true meaning of the concepts they use. The WMM can't claim fraternity with Jesus or any other adept who's teachings, on the one hand they plaigerise without due credit, and on the other they misrepresent and dismiss with analyses duller than a fundamentalist religionist.

In post #65 i explained it some more.

As to which one is going to be the new world religion i have no idea. The PTB have many irons in the fire simultaneously. It will depend on a lot of things not the least being who survives public credulity with their supposed credibility intact. Not just "who", but which "organised teaching" will survive that test and be capable of assuming the role of 'incubator' for the appearance of the 'Great One', whenever that turns out to be. Will it be the WMM? I haven't a clue but they're positioning themselves as a unique and indispensable source of 'truth' for humanity that's clear. Listening to James' schpiel one couldn't concieve of a more qualified man on the face of the earth.... that's a big part of his trip.

But i think what's more important is that it may not be necessary ever to promote the same 'savior figure' to everyone so long as humanity is swallowing it's medicine from many agents of the PTB. That could continue indefinitely -- though deep down i doubt it when guys like James pop onto the stage -- if they consider our minds are sufficiently mushed to accept the philosophical foundations of political / economic "union" according to their idea of human "oneness". That of course is a very different idea to spiritual "Oneness".

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

The WMM discredits Jesus and every spiritual teacher by distorting the true meaning of the concepts they use. The WMM can't claim fraternity with Jesus or any other adept who's teachings, on the one hand they plaigerise without due credit, and on the other they misrepresent and dismiss with analyses duller than a fundamentalist religionist.

In post #65 i explained it some more.

As to which one is going to be the new world religion i have no idea. The PTB have many irons in the fire simultaneously. It will depend on a lot of things not the least being who survives public credulity with their supposed credibility intact. Not just "who", but which "organised teaching" will survive that test and be capable of assuming the role of 'incubator' for the appearance of the 'Great One', whenever that turns out to be. Will it be the WMM? I haven't a clue but they're positioning themselves as a unique and indispensable source of 'truth' for humanity that's clear. Listening to James' schpiel one couldn't concieve of a more qualified man on the face of the earth.... that's a big part of his trip.

But i think what's more important is that it may not be necessary ever to promote the same 'savior figure' to everyone so long as humanity is swallowing it's medicine from many agents of the PTB. That could continue indefinitely -- though deep down i doubt it when guys like James pop onto the stage -- if they consider our minds are sufficiently mushed to accept the philosophical foundations of political / economic "union" according to their idea of human "oneness". That of course is a very different idea to spiritual "Oneness".

In fact, by example, "Jesus" is one of the "ascended masters" haha, to understand the level of the scam and the level of the scamers (remember that the basic teosophy books are "channeled" ugghh)

Cheers!

[Kelphi]

Every knee will bow (before God) and every tongue will confess (before God) that Jesus Christ is Lord. Romans 14:9

Before God. Think about that. Before God. That means when we die. Life over, self over, no more demons to tickle our hears to what we want to hear.

Before God means you and I will see a throne. And if you did not trust Christ while you were living you will be judged by your own standards and it wont be pretty. Woe, woe, woe to you. Books will be opened and you will be utterly trembling with fear at this point knowing that all you had to do was put your faith and trust in Christ Jesus as your substitute for sin.

But no. You had to be a big shot. You told yourself the bible was mistranslated and organized religion was designed to control people by the government. Oh when God laughs at your calamity you will utterly be without excuse. In a last ditch effort you will then confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and suddenly you will realize His word (bible) was true, and total inescapable horror will come over you. And off into the pit you will fall cursing violently who just in seconds you were kneeling before and confessing was God.

But I fear, lest somehow the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds will be corrupted from the (simplicity) that is in Christ Jesus. 2Cor 11:2-4

Look, you probably right now are thinking how you could possibly clean yourself up and come to Jesus or ever stop the sins that you so love.

You must know. Its God that cleans all this up, not you. You don't have the power. Just consider with me how powerful this sin really is. Sin, your sin, your love of sin, is keeping you from turning to Jesus Christ. What all this bible stuff really comes down to is that you do not want to give up your precious sins. Your quest for truth demands that sin be of non-existence. This is your ultimate truth goal that you so desire to cling to. This is how powerful sin is. And only God can rid you of it and give you the power to control it.

This is why christians are so weird to you. The reason christians go to church is not to get into heaven but its because they have been given a free gift of pardon in Christ Jesus' substitutionary shed blood and promised Heaven if they put their faith and trust in this sacrifice. It is that simple. We don't have a license to sin but rather we have a sword that kills it from ever having any power over us in this life time and after death. Yes we christians do sin but we now have the ability to say no to sin and be very successful at it. This is how we know God has given us this free gift. Our lives have been radically changed. I mean radically, over night.

While on this Earth. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved. And God will open your eyes to His word in the bible and you will be filled and satisfied with a truth that passes all understanding.

In love,

Kelphi

[ENdJOY]

Ashatav

Wow, all are therms of the Urantia book.

no they are not...you may have them confused in your mind, but the terms used by the WMs are unique to those materials...and so is the information they are sharing...check again...this is a perfect example of why James said, that when you "compare" the WMMs with other works, you will become confused.