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Old 01-25-2010, 05:24 PM   #1
Mystique
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Default Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Last night my husband asked me to show him proof of some of the topics I told him about. He is extremely skeptical about everything I tell him concerning ascension, PTB, aliens, secret space projects, etc. He wanted to debate several issues but I told him I did not wish to engage in a debate with him unless he read or at least perused some of the material I had researched.

I told him that we really didn't have a basis for debate because he was unprepared. Now that set him back because he loves to debate and felt sure he had an easy victory.

He is a CPA, an accountant, and I told him I would never debate him about tax law, because I had not studied all the new tax laws and was not on the same knowledge level as he. Therefore, even if I couldn't show him instantaneous hard copy proof of my topics, I didn't think he was at the same knowledge level as I was on concerning this particular subject. I have logged hours upon hours of study for over 11 months. (and I'm a newbie)

I realized that some of it is "pure gut feeling", intuition, leap of faith, and a strong belief of correlating stories told by many whistle-blowers or witnesses. I certainly don't believe everything I've heard, I feel I am discerning, but what makes us a believer?

My question to you is what is your deciding factor on which of any of these
theories are true? What makes us trust some, but not others? Belief or Skepticism?
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:57 PM   #2
Fredkc
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

First of all, I am 24 years married to a women with 30 years in accounting. So, while I can feel fer ya, I have absolutely no solution for that problem at all.

Yer on yer own! (just like me)

She can make incredible intuitive leaps. She has a certain psychic gift of her own, tho I can not comprehend what sets it off. And yet she can be the most stubborn "let me see it, touch it, feel it" person I know. Maybe they are a product of each other, too.

Anyway, I go by the axiom:
"Everyone always knows the truth."

It seems tho that everyone, given the right amount of surprise or fear, will instead choose to cling to their reaction to a truth. Getting one of us hard headed humans to go back and "choose again" can be a chore. I'm that way, so is everyone I know. comes with the navel, I think.

My deciding factors ... well here are my main two:
1. I have learned to listen to my "inner BS-meter". No it isn't some beast that must be fed, causing me to run amok denouncing anything insulted by it. More like the ability to set aside what it fusses about, until something more clear develops.

2. Qui bono? (who benefits). I've stepped in enough holes to have some sense for a "posterior motive". things like:
  • Is the messenger more important than the message?
  • Is the goal my "energy subscription" to some belief?
  • Is this thing expanding my knowledge, leading me to new questions, or simply "insulting" what I believe?
Silly things like that.

So much tends to be subjective, yet I have learned not to discard something on that basis alone. In essence:

I cannot force, nor sell you what I believe, nor would I trade it for silver or gold.

In the end, that can turn out to be the best method of "Cenveying truth" there is.

Good luck,
Fred
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:59 PM   #3
Majorion
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

There are times when I could fit the skeptic definition and times when my own intuition is enough for me. The problem with intuition is its not enough for most people, especially if you're debating something, people wanna see hard evidence when theres a claim they find hard to believe, and boy are there a ton of 'hard to believe' claims. But there's a good thing in all that, it pushes you to find evidence for all your 'beliefs', so the next time you're debating something or questioning one of your own long held beliefs, you'll want to have something tangible as an affirmation, and if you really look for it you'll definitely end up finding eventually.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:23 PM   #4
eleni
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Last night my husband asked me to show him proof of some of the topics I told him about. He is extremely skeptical about everything I tell him concerning ascension, PTB, aliens, secret space projects, etc. He wanted to debate several issues but I told him I did not wish to engage in a debate with him unless he read or at least perused some of the material I had researched.

I told him that we really didn't have a basis for debate because he was unprepared. Now that set him back because he loves to debate and felt sure he had an easy victory.

He is a CPA, an accountant, and I told him I would never debate him about tax law, because I had not studied all the new tax laws and was not on the same knowledge level as he. Therefore, even if I couldn't show him instantaneous hard copy proof of my topics, I didn't think he was at the same knowledge level as I was on concerning this particular subject. I have logged hours upon hours of study for over 11 months. (and I'm a newbie)

I realized that some of it is "pure gut feeling", intuition, leap of faith, and a strong belief of correlating stories told by many whistle-blowers or witnesses. I certainly don't believe everything I've heard, I feel I am discerning, but what makes us a believer?

My question to you is what is your deciding factor on which of any of these
theories are true? What makes us trust some, but not others? Belief or Skepticism?
Just to let you know- my husband is the same way - minus the debating aspect.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:30 PM   #5
pedro m.b.
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

hellol Mystique

when i was 7/8 years old, my father used to tell us a story, when he was young my grand father worked in the theater so he get home very late, one day when he arrived home, wake my grandmother my aunt and my father, he was
in hurry, they went outside to the balcony and they saw a big disc shape going sowly over the city.
my grandfather is the only one that don´t remember anything.
first i was amazed about the story and then that we are not alone.
since that time i´ve been curious about the hole thing, witch lead me for other topics also interesting.
when we start looking at things (our society / money / goverments / the energy / religions / planet ...) more carefully we realise that something is not right.
when i talk about this with my wife, she´s very skeptical about the hole thing,i have some experiences whatching the sky, and one day at evening i was outside and saw this light doing strange things i call her and she was " that is no airplane", now she look at things in a diferent way.
in my opinion people are so absorbed with this world that they can´t lift their heads and look around to see whats going on.
when we speak with our friends or just the person right next to you in the cofeeshop about all this subjects, even when someone laughs, there is normally a question - is it true? and we debate about it.

happiness allways
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

I think it is reasonable to ask you husband to look into these matters before diving into a debate. I've found that the more time you spend looking into these subjects, the more undeniable certain things become.

On the subject of the ET presence: Documented accounts alone should be enough to convince the average person. There's a heck of a lot there, and you can stay busy reading up on this for quite a long time (Steven Greer's Disclosure books and videos and Richard Dolan's books are first rate sources). Besides, I've had many sightings of my own, and indisputable (to me) telepathic interaction.

I've seen a few too many versions of "ascension" and "future earth" stories to be certain as to how this is going to play out, but big changes are definitely in the works. Humanity simply cannot stay on the course it is on - business as usual is not sustainable. There are some interesting views into this subject in Dolores Cannon's "Convoluted Universe" series.

Conspiracy and 9/11: Just take a good hard look at building 7 going down.

Free energy: It is clear that the laws of physics as they are currently taught are inconsistent and incomplete. A new unified field theory will yield many wonders. Electrogravitic field propulsion as used by ET craft is itself a violation of the "law" of conservation of energy. Other ways have been found to draw energy from the vacuum (e.g., Tom Bearden's MEG).

I am still skeptical with regard to certain subjects that are popular with many people on this forum, but since I don't want to start a debate on those I'll leave it at that.

If your husband is reasonably intelligent, and the sources you have picked are good ones, he'll be hooked like the rest of us who are seeking the truth. Good luck.

Last edited by Jnana; 01-26-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:37 AM   #7
Mystique
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

You guys are fantastic for responding. I love hearing everyone's perspectives. Thank you Fredkc, Eleni, Majorion, Jnana for your insight. A special thanks to Pedro for sharing his family's special story.
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Be pragmatic and use intuition. I’ve seen all of PC interviews. I’ll tell you know it’s my opinion that very few are straight up. The majority (2/3), I believe are about as plausible as Bush Jr making a coherent speech without a teleprompter. They are mostly “drama” seekers, attention grabbers (sad B*&^%$#) and folk just making a living. Not that I mind them earning a crust. It’s not good when their latest revelations comes second hand, hot of the press, from someone they just happened to bump into.

Body language speaks volumes on a lot of these interviews and folk’ quoting from books do not make a whistle blowers.

Pragmatism. Love it. Unaccounted funds in the US budgets = research, prototypes and black ops. They practically admit it in the press. Another reason why there’s never a big witch-hunt for the missing funds.

Apparently 50,000 coffins / grave liners are just sat in a field because the US funeral industry are experiencing a lot of graves collapsing. Some people actually believe that statement. 50,000 units is a lot of money tied up for the rarity of an occasional grave collapsing in. I bet they think we believe TV adverting…well… some on here do.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Well, I was blessed with very "awake and aware" parents and also a grandmother that has been following the UFO situation since the 1950's.

Eventually I had my own close UFO sighting (with 2 friends) that was so 100% real and absolutely undeniable as to the possibility of it being anything else that I never enter into debates on this topic anymore with anyone... the phenomena is real. If people choose to make fun of it I just feel sorry for them.

I have a friend I used to be involved with in the music scene who has now completed a PHD in pure Math, he works on various quantum stuff involving dimensions.. "M" theory and the like. We caught up for drinks at my house a couple of years ago before he went to Toulouse in France (home base of the European aerospace industry) to finish his doctorate.
Well because I respect and like this friend of mine I decided to show him some evidence for UFOs with a view to providing him ultimately with advanced math & physics concepts sourced from contactee literature, things that would give him an "edge" over the other people in his field and possibly lead to advances in mainstream science if validated by his colleagues via the peer review process.
Well, it went badly... I showed him high level military testimonies from The Disclosure Project... metal samples that have been proven to be extraterrestrial... video and photo evidence for a variety of spacecraft.. etc etc. No matter what I showed him, his mind was completely closed, and he found it all merely an elaborate joke. He rattled off some Carl Sagan sounding response that surely there is life "somewhere" in the universe but he assured me it would look "nothing like a humanoid and certainly not resembling man"..
I really made a valiant effort with this friend and provided some hard data, it made no difference to this person who had closed his mind to anything that was not accepted by the mainstream science establishment.
That was the last person I ever tried to convince of ET reality, I realize now that I need to stay in my own integrity and not concern myself with convincing people, even if they are friends or loved ones.

Good luck with your husband- you will need it.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:31 AM   #10
clarkkent
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

most my friends think alien and illuminatti talk is totally off the wall.

usually i show them maps of washington and egyptian ties, occult symbols and then articles on bohemian grove, usually they think its weird enough that there might be something to it, but its too much to think that a secret society really runs things and dates back thousands of years.

way beyond their comfort zone and thus is relegated to the trash bin of ideas.

UFO's people are a little more open about usually i show people highlights of the disclosure project, with serious witnesses from nasa, lockheed, army navy , cia etc its hard for them not to take the subject a little more seriously.

as far as 'ascension" that has more to do with spirituality and faith so i dont push my cosmic worldview as much as i try to get my friends to acknowledge that its not insane to think we've been visited by ET's and that beyond bad corporations there is something to all the symbols, hand signs and pagan architecture that there might be something to it.

bottom line is people cling to their worldview because its how they go about day to day and know how to live their lives, to change that too drastically is not something most people want to do, and theyll fight to defend their established POVs no matter what is shown to them.

-clark

ps any TRON fans out there i made this, im geeking out with excitement.

http://vimeo.com/8983676
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Old 01-26-2010, 03:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Start out with 9/11 truth, say AE911truth.org's presentation. Then have him watch the Disclosure Project's video from the National Press Club. "Skeptics" are usually just authority worshippers. So find paradigm breaking material that is authored by traditionally revered authority figures.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Only 3 things bother me about 9/11. Building 7, Pentagon air crash and the so called 20 minutes early BBC report... I see no evidence, although it is widely reported, that it was actually 20 minutes before the event. Does someone have an unedited film with the correct time line?

Building 7 although unusual isn't inconceivable. Look at some war time footage of burnt out buildings. What’s unusual is it wasn't a blazing inferno when it collapsed.

Aircraft hitting the Pentagon. WHY don't they release ALL the CCTV footage?

It don't help when politics tries to cover it's own ****. This breads speculations.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

We'd get stories going around school when I was a kid, that the neighbouring school were going to come over and kick our heads in.

When your personal safety is in danger, you take notice.

We waited for the attack. It never came. Who started the rumour, what was their proof? Did we change timeline?


Each successive 'threat' was treated with more skepticism.

My tip would be to treat any story that threatens your safety in an exotic way with similar skepticism.

Other than that, the 911 loosechange video is pretty good, and Alex Jones' video of the Bohemian Grove Owl is just sooooo out there that it would quieten any naysayers when they see what the people who control the world get up to on their weekends off.

On a personal note, I believe that the world you live in is the world you create for yourself. So be wary of populating it with beliefs that are fearful. No one knows which day will be his last, and no one lives for ever. The end is coming for us all, one day. Often the scare stories are just a projection of an inner fear of death.

Also, you don't need your husband to believe for it still to be true for you.

K
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:25 PM   #14
Majorion
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No matter what I showed him, his mind was completely closed, and he found it all merely an elaborate joke. He rattled off some Carl Sagan sounding response that surely there is life "somewhere" in the universe but he assured me it would look "nothing like a humanoid and certainly not resembling man"
Carl Sagan had been a disinformation artist all his life. His proponents are often more closed minded than he was. There is no point trying to convince anyone who has an inherent bias, such as the friend you described.

I also had a UFO experience, or rather USO, to be more accurate. And I had about 5 or 6 people with me and it wasn't their first time, it was just my first time. Absolutely no doubt if you or anyone else were with me right then and there, these were 'alien' by every definition of the word.

You are not alone Luminari, its a wise decision to just leave the ignorant be.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #15
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UFO's people are a little more open about usually i show people highlights of the disclosure project, with serious witnesses from nasa, lockheed, army navy , cia etc its hard for them not to take the subject a little more seriously.
Hi clarkkent,

Well if credible testimony and physical evidence cases don't convince them, try the ancient cave paintings from all around the world, that's usually a killer proof, and if they're still not convinced then there's nothing you can do to deny their ignorance.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

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Only 3 things bother me about 9/11. Building 7, Pentagon air crash and the so called 20 minutes early BBC report... I see no evidence, although it is widely reported, that it was actually 20 minutes before the event. Does someone have an unedited film with the correct time line?
We watched the news report on BBC News 24 and the reporter was talking about building 7 collapsing, they then cut to on the scene footage of smoke and chaos and they were trying to get confirmation on Building 7, they cut back to the New York studio reporter trying to get some more drivel when building 7 began to fall over her left shoulder, it was blatantly obvious. I commented at the time, but most of those who saw the same thing tried to find a rational explanation and called me a 'conspiracy nut'.

The BBC later made a documentary about conspiracies and one program was specifically on building 7, they still didn't convince me, I must check and see if it is available on BBC iPlayer, but it is probably not.

I talk about this stuff all the time, most people think I'm crazy, but recently they have begun to listen and a few people have come to me seeking more information on subjects such as 2012 or aliens. I try to set them on their own path by showing them Nassim Harramein, unAsleep (thread here- give it a bump), the tether incident (I saw that live too, quite funny).

In the end we have to find our own truth,
one love, people get ready...
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Here's the BBC trying to explain away the building 7 conspiracy, it didn't convince me BBC conspiracy files clip, enjoy
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

We know the truth, and can tell it apart from the lies, if we keep our minds and hearts open to all possibilities, and remain prepared for new information changing old ideas.

My wife is also very skeptical, and although she listens she often doesn't know how to participate in a conversation with me. I percieve her attitude often as eye rolling.. lol. She claims it's unintentional.

We are all doing what works for us I suppose. Although it can be a major strain on relationships.

Thank you for sharing your story.

In light, of love
Shaynard
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:11 PM   #19
Fredkc
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Shaman View Post
Start out with 9/11 truth, say AE911truth.org's presentation. Then have him watch the Disclosure Project's video from the National Press Club. "Skeptics" are usually just authority worshippers. So find paradigm breaking material that is authored by traditionally revered authority figures.
straying a bit off topic but... indulge me for a sec.



One of the great posers to put before someone on 9/11, although I don't think this is the best subject to start on, is this bit of film, from MSNBC.

This is between 45 min, and 1 hour AFTER UAL175 hit the towers!

Simple question: Why is it still in the air, @ 30,000 ft, over the mainland, headed west?

No engineering skills, math skills, knowledge of any conspiracy required; all you need is the ability to tell time.
Fred
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Hi all, thanks for your sharing and experiences

Hihi yeah thats a really nice theme and its also very good when people are sceptical. So they will do their own research and get their own experience which is a good thing. There are indeed so much fantastical things everywhere from what we sometimes even didn't imagined yet. Also some dont wanna see and they wont see aslong they close themself from everything. We close ourself from things and others by fear. So a good thing we can do is not give only all our knowledge and wisdom but maybe a little more our love. I've been inspired so often from all of you people here who share so much beauty and love. We can give so much more with our love to ourself and also others. Yeah for some it looks simple and for others its the hardest thing in life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg0ONyCBj6k imagine
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:26 PM   #21
Sideshow Shaman
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Default Re: Belief or Skepticism/The Deciding Factor

Here are a few links to prime 9/11 truth videos of the short variety. Of course the reigning champions are the 1000+ professional architects of AE911Truth.org

WTC7 from north west side, vertical column of windows exploding out clearly visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQeQi5XXfz0
(also has footage of North Tower)

WTC7 clearly visible behind the head of the BBC reporter discussing how it has already collapsed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNK1V6S2cbo

Examples of top down demolition, which can be a hard thing to find,
http://www.911blogger.com/node/20985

Also worth noting, but I don't have a great link on hand is the "pentagon exit hole". Only a shaped charge could go through 3 heavily reinforced concrete bunker rings and still leave a circle. An airliners nose is soft by comparison.
http://images.google.com/images?q=pe...N&hl=en&tab=wi

I have been deprogramming people re:9/11 for a long time. And with great success too. The easiest avenue, imo, is controlled demolition via physical evidence. The military stand-down works ok too (the planes could have been brought down but the interceptors were ordered to fly at 1/3 speed).

Someday i will get around to participating in one of the 9/11 threads here. But mostly I confine my activism to public areas... in, ahhh, the 3D world.

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