Barack Obama hoists the white flag over Stalinist health care proposals

[Northern Boy]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...are-proposals/


By Gerald Warner World Last updated: August 17th, 2009


The white flag is flying over Camp Obama, which makes a pleasant change from the red flag that, metaphorically speaking, has been flying there since January 20. Barack Obama’s plan for socialised health care on the Stalinist model across the United States is now in full retreat. Not only will it not play in Peoria, it will not play anywhere.
Politicians returning to Washington after scrubbing off the tar and feathers acquired at town-hall meetings are bringing with them a blast of reality that has been absent from Obama’s dreamland regime since his inauguration. For months Obama had been trumpeting the indispensable nature of his “public option” in a new health care system. Suddenly, it is no big deal. Kathleen Sebelius, the Health and Human Services Secretary, is now telling Americans that taxpayer-funded insurance was “not the essential element”.
So, President Pantywaist is in full retreat; but he is desperate for some face-saving measure to pretend he has achieved revolutionary reform. The Senate should not oblige. Obama has no interest in genuine health care reform: as a Senator he voted against all the moderate, achievable measures that were proposed. So far as he was concerned, the worse things got for 48 million uninsured Americans the better: it might persuade them to buy into his socialist scheme, the primary objective of which was not relief of suffering but expansion of Big Government.
Now that is in tatters. Politically, it is interesting to analyse why. Obama has no notion of cautious, consensual reform: he wants a Union of Soviet States of America and he wants it now. A realist would have taken up the existing reform proposals, perhaps radicalised them a little, and tried to take them forward. Above all, he would not have alienated the pro-life lobby by rolling abortion into the plan. But not Obama. He brings to the White House the abilities and experience of a Chicago community organiser. As Sarah Palin witheringly said: “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organiser’ except that you have actual responsibilities.”
President Pantywaist has been found out and it will get worse. The one glimmer of realism he displayed was when he recently told an audience in Montana that, with regard to health care, he was “not in favour of the British system”. Perhaps he had just seen the latest figures from the Office of National Statistics revealing that more than 30,000 people have died in England and Wales from hospital infections in just five years. Translated proportionately into American demographics, that would be 150,000 fatalities. Not the best advertisement for socialised health care.
There will be many more U-turns as reality overtakes Obama. His economic recovery plan, which cost nearly $1 trillion dollars and masked 9,000 pork barrels, has removed his halo for even quite gullible voters. This will be a one-term presidency.

[Unified Serenity]

Great post NB. Yes, they have tried the nose under the tent for a long time, and I guess they felt it was time to bring in the whole camel. Do it fast before we can react seemed to be their motto, but when the sleeping giant that is the American people awakes, we are very swift and not afraid to respond from our hearts.

We do need some reforms, but not the way this monstrosity was being shoved down our throats!

[Anchor]

This is not news reporting, it is biased political spin disguised as news reporting.

The only fact in that report is the policy change.

So finally the Obama administration is forced to do something and changes a policy from one that apparently no-one wanted to a situation that is more agreeable and he still gets bashed for it.... amazing.

I say: Good on you Obama - good call, well steered.

A..

[Sarahmay]

A very offensive post.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Sarahmay

A very offensive post.

Mine or the original post?

A..

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sarahmay

A very offensive post.

That is really sad...................I happen to like the post but I felt it was not exactly correct
Your remarks certainly show how bias you really are regarding anything written about Obama.

He didnt write this bill, who did and when? What a big joke.....It was ready last February. 1000 pages in a health care bill that we can not afford to have put into law.

Maybe if the article had not mention Obama in it, you two may of felt a bit of relief like some of us do.

I am not saying that I know it all, but quite frankly, it makes me very nervous still.......





Obama said, he would give up the thought of running a second term just to get this government health care bill passed
I am not so sure that I trust anything that our media, newspapers, or especially anything coming from the White House is ever true.

This health care bill is very very important to all of us. My gosh, some of us cant run and hide in houses off in the wilderness, nor can we just ignore the outcome of this terrible bill.

Alot of us have small children that are very ill with MS or from some other desease that is incurrable. Some of us have elderly parents that suffer terribly where a decision might be made by the death panel. Oh yeah, thats nothing new, that has been going on for a very long time, it just wasnt out in the open nor do many of the Medical field go along with it !

It goes without saying that their are no shortages of deseases now a days.

This Health care bill has gotten the attention of many many people and its not one to just decide that its OK because of who the president of this USA is. I love it that people are waking up...........

Would any of you like to put in your appearance in a town hall meeting and really feel good telling those people that have fear all over their faces, that they needn't worry becaue Obama is our president.

I see he has an ad on his site paying people 500 dollars a week to show up and I have seen them yelling Yes we can...............

how dare they mess with our lives like that

These people have no idea what is happening, they are scared and angry......

[Anchor]

I still dont know if I am offensive with my first post in this thread. I didn't think so, but if I am then I really need someone to tell me - a PM would be nice. If I have been, then I apologize to everyone.

mntruthseeker:

I would answer you by saying that if anyone expects any contemporary 1st world government to help people with thier underlying health problems then they are suffering from "full-spectrum-delusion", and totally living in a dying old paradigm. It matters not if you are in the wilderness or a city.

Most people reading this forum know what a farce modern so-called "first world" health-care is and how distorted it is with its commercially driven big-pharma rape of your bank accounts whilst feeding you horrible food that makes things worse.

The condition and expression of health has so little to do with the govenment it is not funny. I find it astonishing to see them even in the same paragraph.

Ultimately the proper expression of health is the responsibility of the individual and the community that the individual resides within.

The government is old paradigm. Whatever law is passed, it will not result in miracle cures for the sick, no doctors will come riding in shining armour to rescue the unhealthy with free meds for all that need it. More likely it will be about a slightly different way of managing resources.

This would happen even if Obama was not president.

The best outcome from any new laws would be greater transparency and truth about what is going on. Mandating that people have more freedom to choose. Perhaps we could still get there if we all try hard for that?

I can see we are far from that, but each little maneuver and step in the right direction is to be applauded.

BTW: Yes I am biased. I am not ashamed to admit it - I have my views and I take full responsibility for them and the effects they have. When I see a peice of political spin charading as "news" designed to strike at the emotions by twisting the context and the facts then I will call it the way I see it. It does not take bias to do that, but I am biased which makes me choose my targets in a biased way.

However, if I present arguments that lack the necessary reason or ring of truth, feel free to take it to debate and if you can change my mind for the highest and best good of all, then so be it!

A..

[Northern Boy]

wouldn`t it be easier to pay the ones who oppose it to stay homeyou know the ones who lost their homes and jobs ,brownshirts -Acorn and the union are becoming common street thugs and they will pick on the wrong person and oh well

[Northern Boy]

Anchor

I still dont know if I am offensive

I believe it was my post that was found to be offensive A

If i was an American I would find it offensive to even try to bring a bill like that in and try pass it off as good when congress and the President are exempt .If that don`t tell you something go back to sleep . And worse to have main stream media suggesting it is criminal to oppose such a measure. I can`t even turn the TV on it makes me sick . ...............Opps didn`t mean to bring up health

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Northern Boy

Anchor


I believe it was my post that was found to be offensive A

If i was an American I would find it offensive to even try to bring a bill in and pass it off as good. And worse to have main stream media suggesting it. I can`t even turn the TV on it makes me sick . Opps didn`t mean to bring up health

Good, its important for you to know how much I respect the service you and others are doing by sticking with it and posting the stories and message - even if I dont like the way the words read, that is, in some of the quoted material.

You are along with the others here are all pretty freaking fantastic! I cant say that enough, and usually dont because it would get boring to keep reading it. Every day that passes amazes me in new ways.

On the whole, I honestly believe that behind the media-sensationalised setbacks and problems, we are making good (albeit small) steps into the golden age.

No one has to travel that far to find that the birds are still singing, the plants are still growing, trees are still there, and that they along with the whole planet, even though we abuse her awfully, she and all her creatures and kingdoms - they all still love us.

A..

[mntruthseeker]

I agree 100 per cent that no government will help with our health care. Hell they have a hand in creating all the deseases around the world.

But, alot of people in this world truly believed that Obama was going to do a big change when he went into office.

The health care bill was a very scary and real experience and I wanted to attend the town hall meeting myself with my questions. I didnt need to but my heart ached very much with the people that I seen in the audience

I read the posting that NB put up and I seen nothing offensive about it. I didnt find that it was accurate as I mentioned.

I don't trust our government and feel that they are hiding something behind the scenes.

Sarahmay, bless her heart decided the posting was offensive. I didnt find it offensive but refreshing. Refreshing to know that the people stood up for what they believed in and I'm so proud as I am sure they are also

I have alot of family members that are not awake and this was really scarey to them. They expected more. They have no idea how horrific the "people behind the scenes" really are.

I hope they answer this and I also wonder why we can't just post what we want and let it go. No one has to comment if they are in such disagreement with it.

I know I wanted to leave this site myself, because I don't want to feel offensive or think that I am offrending anyone else.

Thats just totally wrong. We need to feel free to speak our mind, heaven knows that will be gone soon. Who else but to a group that we feel safe with. People that will not tell us we are nuts. People that will understand that we too are searching for answers or ideas to toss around on others.

Avalon and Camelot have both provided me with alot of good information and I cherish it . I don't agree with some of them and I try really hard to bite my tongue and shut my face over certain ideals. It often runs through my mind how different people really truly are.

I want transparency more so than the next person and I don't expect to see that.

The article was, in my opinion, one of the nicer ones that are out there on the web. The story was incomplete

I am bias but I work through all of that.

Yesterday I made a remark about Alex Collier and someone came in and made a remark about William Cooper. I didnt take offense instead I ran off to find out why he said that. I love researching and its what I spend my days doing when I am intriqued on something.

I listened to William Cooper and I love him. He follows the workings of Maxwell, Tsarsion and today I also listened to Steven Quayle. So you see it is really important for people to express their opinions. I learned alot and I feel more empowered. I know that I am still working my way to getting the answers that I desperately need.

So if the idea that NB put an articlle regarding Obama is so offensive then people need to just move on. I personally thank NB for putting it up as I do care what it said. I didn't do anything but listen to videos and I care very passionately what is going on with the Health care bill. I caught just a little about it when I checked my emails today. Yahoo had a small story which I didn't take the time to read

The power to the people was the wonderful feeling I got watching them speak out in the few videos I seen.

I seen the comments put on here so I answered on here. I haven't to value NB's opinions and am glad that he has directed me to many find videos which have helped me in my struggle.

I was just rather shocked that he got such a response

[Unified Serenity]

I'm sure the Tory's were very offended by those who wanted independence from Mother England. Maybe the Scottish should not have offended England either with showing their backsides to their LORDS on the battlefield.

When grievances go unheeded and the people find no recourse expect a LOT more than offending words to come as history has shown. I believe a terrible war is planned and it will take a lot more focus in speaking the truth to get the ptw to wake up and realize the ants are NOT complying.

[Sarahmay]

The original post was offensive. "President Pantywaist"? C'mon, if you can't discuss something without namecalling, then you don't have a very good argument.

And it is amazing how many Canadians and others who have nationalized health care are weighing in about what the US should do. Over 50 million Americans are without ANY health insurance, and that is completely immoral for a nation of our stature.

I want to be able to buy into a health plan with no pre-existing conditions that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. The current system does not provide it (it could, but corporate greed prevents it). I currently have a very good health plan through my employer, but if I decide to become self employed, I am f****d.

The arguments against it are fear based rhetoric, nothing more.

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sarahmay

The original post was offensive. "President Pantywaist"? C'mon, if you can't discuss something without namecalling, then you don't have a very good argument.

And it is amazing how many Canadians and others who have nationalized health care are weighing in about what the US should do. Over 50 million Americans are without ANY health insurance, and that is completely immoral for a nation of our stature.

I want to be able to buy into a health plan with no pre-existing conditions that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. The current system does not provide it (it could, but corporate greed prevents it). I currently have a very good health plan through my employer, but if I decide to become self employed, I am f****d.

The arguments against it are fear based rhetoric, nothing more.

I will answer this but then I'm done. I am an American and I am proud that other people in other Countries care about us. To me that is humongous in our war against NWO. What are you thinking? I thank god, our creator that they do not comdemn us for the wars that we have started that is without warrant.

ok, health insurance...............what they want to shove down our throats is garbage. Pre existing conditions are only for the people that DO not have insurance within a certain time frame. I have two insurances at this time and they are very good. But I pay for it. Most states will cover people for a small fee (25.00) per month. If you value your life and your childs its affordable. Most people will spend more than that on a carton of cigerettes or booze.

Obama's healthcare bill was a death sentence. If you think the whole world isn't sitting back watching then you are sadly mistakened. I want the world to watch. I want the world to stand up for us. Like, I said, it makes me proud that we still matter to the rest of the world.

Thank you fellow Canadians, South Americans, Chinese, Korean, Africans..............thanks to all of you for caring.

I read your articles and I know in my heart ............you are watching and caring

[Sarahmay]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Ok, health insurance...............what they want to shove down our throats is garbage. Pre existing conditions are only for the people that DO not have insurance within a certain time frame. I have two insurances at this time and they are very good. But I pay for it. Most states will cover people for a small fee (25.00) per month. If you value your life and your childs its affordable. Most people will spend more than that on a carton of cigerettes or booze.

Obama's healthcare bill was a death sentence.

Um, you have to be very poor to qualify for that type of insurance.

And the president doesn't write bills, congress does.

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sarahmay

Um, you have to be very poor to qualify for that type of insurance.

And the president doesn't write bills, congress does.

So your point is ? I know he didnt write the bill, ask my husband, he will tell you I was not born yesterday.

You needn't worry about Obama, I am sure he will take very good care of himself and his family. He would be so flattered to see how well you defend his actions. But let us defend our point of view and take care of our self.

Wrong, My daughter signs people up for that insurance all the time. In Minnesota its called Minnesotacare. You are not getting anything for nothing. The people that get it are the ones that are in between jobs. Not for the ones that just decide not to work and collect whatever they can.

BTW............the information came from a well known senator, I highly doubt he fabricated the information

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by Sarahmay

And the president doesn't write bills, congress does.

Your right the president does not write bills. Just to expand on this point, the president does nothing aside from follow orders. He does not write his own speeches, he just reads pre-written words from a teleprompter. The president has no ideas of his own, his health care bill and all other bills are also pre-written by other people. The president has no power what so ever, he is simply a figure head, nothing more, nothing less, and his job is to create obamanoids who will believe whatever pre-written words come out of his mouth.
And for those who say Obama is an enlightened being, is this the way an enlightened being would act? Is this they way one shows respect to his wife and kids? Nothing but lower chakras are directing this guy.


Swanny ur not allowed to comment.

[Sarahmay]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Wrong, My daughter signs people up for that insurance all the time. In Minnesota its called Minnesotacare. You are not getting anything for nothing. The people that get it are the ones that are in between jobs. Not for the ones that just decide not to work and collect whatever they can.

That is not available in my state, and definitely not in the state that I am moving to. You must be in one of the welfare states

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by sarahmay

that is not available in my state, and definitely not in the state that i am moving to. You must be in one of the welfare states

pathetic

[Unified Serenity]

Florida used to have this program. We do have a program for children, but not adults.

The 50 million uninsured touted by many is one of those statistics that must be looked at carefully. Does it include those who CHOOSE not to have insurance and who can pay for it? Yes it does. There are many young people who choose not to pay as little as $100.00 per month for a fairly comprehensive individual insurance plan.

The following data is from NCPA


"Although it is common to think of the uninsured as having low incomes, many families who lack insurance are solidly middle class. And the largest increase in the number of uninsured in recent years has occurred among higher-income families:

* About one in seven uninsured persons lives in a family with an income between $50,000 and $75,000, and almost one in six earns more than $75,000.
* Further, between 1993 and 1999, the bulk of the increase in the number of uninsured was among the households earning more than $50,000.
* By contrast, in households earning less than $50,000 the number of uninsured decreased by about 5 percent."

These are people who willingly choose to live in $1200.00 apartments, $500.00 car payments, $100.00 cable tv, $100.00 cell phones, and fun money to go out every weekend drinking and having a good time. They are healthy and qualify for any plan, but do not want to pay for insurance since they feel they don't need it and if they get sick can pay $150.00 for a doctor and get a prescription for antibiotics, thus saving money. Then they get older and have a health issue and suddenly do not qualify for the insurance or if they qualify are charge a great deal more for the same plan.

There needs to be a system where competition exists to make the hospitals and doctors charge reasonable prices. As it is, most people cannot shop around when they are very ill or in an emergency. Those on insurance don't care what the real costs are because they will pay their deductible and co-pay regardless of the final bill. The bill they see from their insurance company may say as mine did $90,000.00 for various surgery and hospital treatment, when in reality the company only paid approximately $25,000.00. That $90,000.00 is what I would have had to pay had I NOT had insurance.

It's a shell game. I recommend everyone go to Hospital Victims and see what the reality is with these "non-profit" hospitals. Then pick your state and and find your hospital on the list. Most are grossly overcharging in lab, radiology, etc.. Here is what my local hospital overcharges:

Capital Regional Medical Center (Tallahassee, FL)
charges 493% times its costs.
That is 422% times what Johns Hopkins charges!

under anscillary charges:

Anesthesiology

Mark-Up 3,896%

Costs $362,275

Charges $14,113,974

Look at that mark-up! This is for Anesthesiology! Something you need in an emergency. It cost the hospital $362,275 and yet they billed $14,113,974!!!
This is the sort of **** that is ruining the health care system. Radiology Associates has a monopoly on this service and overcharges for it.

Here is one more example from this hospital:

Laboratory

Mark-Up 1,181%

Costs $3,456,067

Charges $40,800,994

Lab work cost the hospital about three and a half million and yet they billed almost forty-one million!!! There are ways to fight this abuse, especially if you are uninsured.

Read on the site about how to defend yourself. They will even review your bills and help you. The site says:

"Know Your Rights

Plan to Fight to Protect Your Assets:

The courts say hospitals can collect only what is reasonable. Yes, all patients are required to sign a commitment to pay whatever is charged for treatment. But the courts have consistently ruled that hospital charges must be REASONABLE.

What's a reasonable charge?

That depends on the procedure, any complications, and in what area of the country you are hospitalized. What Medicare pays is a benchmark. Insurance companies usually pay 5% to 10 % more than medicare, but not 3 to 4 times more! We can help you find out what is reasonable.

Don't let your credit be destroyed!

It's important for you to take action. Write the hospital and credit agencies. Collection agencies, working on behalf of hospitals, have ruined the credit of many uninsured families in attempting to collect unreasonable bills. Writing a simple letter can protect you and your credit. We've posted a letter that you should fill out and send to the hospital, collection agency, and national credit bureaus. Keep a copy for yourself."


This organization is fantastic, and more should avail themselves of it's services and information!

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Phtha

Nothing but lower chakras are directing this guy.

I'm sure if I had camera's pointed at me all the time like he does, I would be caught checking out some lady curves from time to time

One admires beauty for what it is - one is also conditioned by sexual polarity.

What would you have of him?

A..

[Phtha]

That polarity and strong attraction we feel towards the opposite sex can be amplified to every thing in existence. I see that same beauty in every plant and animal, every rock and every insect, and indeed every word, sound, smell, touch, and taste.

To answer you question:
That awareness of love for all life is what I would have of someone whom I would even consider following.

I don't allow myself to be fooled by the media and Obama's speech writers into believing he is anything even close to a savior however.

All you have to do is decode Barack Hussien Obama's name to find out the truth of what he is suppose to be and who he really works for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_SAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_Armored_Brigade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SP-21_Barak

Isreal

But you need to have eyes to see.


I love Obama just like I loved Bush, for giving us this experience in what I think is a wonderful game, but I don't get fooled by them, there is a big difference.

I would suggest, rather then asking what you would have of him, that you quit looking outside yourself for your savior.

Originally Posted by Anchor

I'm sure if I had camera's pointed at me all the time like he does, I would be caught checking out some lady curves from time to time

One admires beauty for what it is - one is also conditioned by sexual polarity.

What would you have of him?

A..

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Phtha

I would suggest, rather then asking what you would have of him, that you quit looking outside yourself for your savior.

That is good advice, but completely wasted on me basically I agree with you 100%

I know what I want of Obama.

He has his part on the team to play, I and confident he is performing to the best of his abilities and to the limits of the light available to him. I am confident that he is working in a way that be not be clearly seen through the spin-media or will be felt in the shorter term.

This will continue to rattle many cages.

A..

[Phtha]

Your views don't rattle nearly as many cages as those who point out that he is not what we are being told. The opposition of Obama are the ones that are truly rattling cages. No one even heard of this man a year ago, and now everyone thinks he is some light warrior.
The Government/Mindcontrol has a way of working their hollywood though. So I sympathize and ultimately enjoy it all. We are all here to experience different aspects of this game. But there is of course, an ultimate Truth.

Originally Posted by Anchor

This will continue to rattle many cages.

A..

[orthodoxymoron]

Prevention and Natural Treatment should be front and center. But that would cut into a very corrupt and very profitable business. We wouldn't want to do that...now would we?